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Can Freedom survive the Age of Totalitarianism?

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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 11:35 AM
Original message
Poll question: Can Freedom survive the Age of Totalitarianism?
Edited on Wed Mar-16-05 11:40 AM by tom_paine
Well, today Paul Wolfowitz was named Head of the World Bank. Which clearly indicates that not only did the world learn as little as Old America about how to stop Hitlerian Power from rising, but that it may be embracing the New Order wholeheartedly.

BushPutinism, as I like to call the newest form of Totalitarianism talior made to enslave this generation of human beings, seems to be on the rise everywhere.

From the absolute and total failure of the Old American System of Checks and Balances to BushPutinist movements in Japan and Italy (currently two of the countries on the ever-shrinking roster of Free World Nations), it seems as if the 21st Century will being with an Age of Totalitarianism, which may well finish putting out the lights on the Enlightenment.

Still, nothing is certain and the details of the future doubly so. But right now the Free World is smaller than it's ever been in our lifetimes. Maybe smaller than at any time since before WWII, back when America was free, instead of filling the German role (but more Kinder and Gentler) as we are today.

If one looks at the writings of the original Tom Paine, he stated in The Crisis Papers that at the time of the American Revolution there was not one people anywhere in the wide earth than was truly free, but they all toiled under their BushPutinist Masters (naturally, they were called Monarchists in those days).

Is it possible to stuff the genie that was released by the American and French Revolutions back in the bottle?

Five years ago, I would have laughed at such a concept.

But five years ago, I would have told you the media was pretty liberal, too, so all bets are off.

That is my question.

Feel free to flame me, blame me, call me a pessimist, or Eeyore (I prefer Old Benjamin, the cynical donkey from Animal Farm, because they really are one and the same character).

But I would like to hear what DUers think and why.

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. I voted "maybe."
I feel very strongly that it is in the "potential" stage. We have a huge conflict on our hands, and the dark side has some real advantages. But we can overcome.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I voted "maybe", too
And remember, we are not just talking of Old America (now vanished) here but all of the shrunken embattled Free World (Canada Japan Old Europe, maybe some of New Europe and a few other scattered nations around the world).

That might change the prognosis, maikng it a little better.

But I must confess, I considered voting the "human extinction" choice because because that is a strong possibility, too.
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7th_Sephiroth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. Facists allways fall
they deliver the wrong edict or piss off too manny armies at once, and its usually one of thier own citizens with a rifle that ends it
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Well I certainly hope the fascists fall this time around...
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7th_Sephiroth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. it will be a long line of take downs
first dub-dub then cheney, rove and poppy would have to go down, too
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. Whoa, she sunk like a rock, eh?
shameless :kick:
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. I don't know about all that "free world" stuff...
I know freedom will always exist in my mind and heart.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. So were the White Rose Society in Nazi Germany free in their hearts
or the people hawking bluejeans on a Moscow streetcorner in 1975 Soviet Union also free in their hearts.

And so are we few Free Americans in Imperial Amerika.

But that's not what this thread is about.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. A new genie has eclipsed the old one
Edited on Wed Mar-16-05 02:08 PM by Mandate My Ass
"In the last years of the 1990s, the GOP-voting middle class refocused its anger away from government and leviathan and toward the person of Bill Clinton. It was said that he represented some kind of unique moral evil despoiling the White House. That ridiculous Monica scandal culminated in a pathetic and pretentious campaign to impeach Clinton. Impeaching presidents is a great idea, but impeaching them for fibbing about personal peccadilloes is probably the least justifiable ground. It's almost as if that entire campaign was designed to discredit the great institution of impeachment.

"In any case, this event crystallized the partisanship of the bourgeoisie, driving home the message that the real problem was Clinton and not government; the immorality of the chief executive, not his power; the libertinism of the left-liberals and not their views toward government. The much heralded "leave us alone" coalition had been thoroughly transformed in a pure anti-Clinton movement. The right in this country began to define itself not as pro-freedom, as it had in 1994, but simply as anti-leftist, as it does today."

<snip>

"The vigor and determination of the Bush administration has brought about a profound cultural change, so that the very people who once proclaimed hated of government now advocate its use against dissidents of all sorts, especially against those who would dare call for curbs in the totalitarian bureaucracy of the military, or suggest that Bush is something less than infallible in his foreign-policy decisions. The lesson here is that it is always a mistake to advocate government action, for there is no way you can fully anticipate how government will be used. Nor can you ever count on a slice of the population to be moral in its advocacy of the uses of the police power."

<snip>

"If you follow hate-filled sites such as Free Republic, you know that the populist right in this country has been advocating nuclear holocaust and mass bloodshed for more than a year now. The militarism and nationalism dwarfs anything I saw at any point during the Cold War. It celebrates the shedding of blood, and exhibits a maniacal love of the state. The new ideology of the red-state bourgeoisie seems to actually believe that the US is God marching on earth not just godlike, but really serving as a proxy for God himself."

"What is the most pressing and urgent threat to freedom that we face in our time? It is not from the left. If anything, the left has been solid on civil liberties and has been crucial in drawing attention to the lies and abuses of the Bush administration. No, today, the clear and present danger to freedom comes from the right side of the ideological spectrum, those people who are pleased to preserve most of free enterprise but favor top-down management of society, culture, family, and school, and seek to use a messianic and belligerent nationalism to impose their vision of politics on the world."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/red-state-fascism.h...
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Picture a boot stamping on a human face. Forever."
"Humans die. The Party is immortal."...

:scared:
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-05 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. To stop this, something really bad is going to have to happen.
Otherwise, it's just going to be lies all the way down.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I fear you are right. there is no simple way out of this
Either it will be "something bad" or the graudual but complete transition to Totalitarian Slavery.

How did things get so bad so FAST?
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