Why don't SUV bitchers gripe about Minivans?

[Atman]

Some people need the space, dammit! Us included. We have a beater 1995 Ford Escort for quick trips, and our old Ford Windstar shit the bed last year (as all Windstars do). So we looked at a used SUV, because we haul stuff and need the space. It's a "full size" (regular Blazer or Explorer size, not the giant Expedition size) and it is smaller than our Windstar was. But you never hear anyone bitching about Minivans.

What's up with that?

[Wilms]

1. Folk used to. But the SUV's seem such a larger problem. n/t

[Warpy]

38. Momvans at least seem to have a purpose

which is transporting large groups of yuppie larvae off to soccer games and the like.

SUVs are more deserving of derision since they are sold as rugged off road vehicles but are used for trips to the suburban grocery store and will flip over if they actually do go offroad and try to corner at any speed.

My 88 year old father regards momvans, king cab pickups and SUVs as the same and curses "those fucking billboards" for blocking his vision every time he drives.

[Lone Pawn]

2. Because nobody buys a giant minivan as a status symbol

or fashion statement. If you got one, you need one. Whereas the SUV...hell, I don't think I've seen more than a dozen SUVs that actually had anything in the back seat.

[redqueen]

6. Thank you... that's it exactly.

Most people think minivans aren't 'cool' at all so only buy them when they really do need the space.

Not so with the trendy SUV's... which every lemmingheaded moron thinks makes them 'safe' or 'cool' or whatever the stupid reason they buy them when they don't really need them.

[Catch22Dem]

11. "safe"

Now that's funny!!!!!

[jdj]

7. the fundies drive the hell out of them around here.

all of them have "W-04" on the back of em.

I love the joke I heard the other day, that putting an American flag on an SUV is like a whore wearing rosary beads.

[Catch22Dem]

8. Yeah, nothing in the back seat

Nevermind the giant "cargo" area. Basically, they're driving themselves around and that's it. Now, before some SUV driver starts crying and spitting in my direction, I never said "ALL" only some...ok most. :evilgrin:

[Red State Rebel]

20. Mine had tinted windows so you couldn't tell...pffffft!!

I have retired my Suburban - at least mostly retired it. For years I was involved in volunteer youth activity that required I have such a vehicle. Before that, it was the sheer fact that we had 4 very active kids.

I get tired of people passing judgements based on their assumptions about othere people. My driving attitude in the Suburban is no different than it is now that I'm usually driving a Lumina.

There are much more important issues to worry about.

[Atman]

25. Thanks, Rebel

I'm hearing a lot of disturbing stuff in this thread. Mostly the pre-judgement kind of stuff that dems are not supposed to be about. I can get a MUCH nicer used SUV -- and save the manufacturing raw materials and fuel used in making a new one -- and save a ton of money, and get just about the same gas mileage as my minivan. And most of the bitching here appears to be about how people PERCEIVE that guy in the SUV to be. How the hell do they know? If you pulled up next to me at an intersection, with NO ribbon magnets, or American flags, or even a white Apple sticker, would I still draw your ire for my bad attitude?

This is very disconcerting. Although I admit, there really does not appear to be any rationale or reason to allow 150lb 5'2" soccer moms behind the wheel of something as massive as a Humvee, especially for a trip to the market. Hummers and those new massive Expedition-size SUVs are just nuts, and should only be sold as commercial vehicles, and require a Class-C license.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

34. agreed, there are more important issues to worry about.

some people have reasons for these SUV's, they actually serve a purpose.
some are just excessive accessories to a person's ego.

either way,

i think it is bad form to continually harp on these SUV's, you trigger people's emotions when you condemn them and their purchases, you are less likely to acheive "communication" with someone if they are feeling attacked/threatened.

it seems to me the goal should be to spread the idea that oil is finite in a non-derogatory way, people tune you out and reinforce their own beleifs when they feel threatened. so why make it more emotional than it needs to be?

disclaimer: i realise DU is a place for people to vent, i respect that.

[iconoclastNYC]

77. It is important that average fuel efficiency

Has fallen in the past 15 years due to SUV's

Our economy is deeply crippled by our dependence on foreign oil.

This is a national security issue.

Very few people who drive SUV's actually need them, it's all about status, and thats why they are so loathed.

Plus the fact that they get thru the CAFE loophole by being classified as a truck. Then you have the tax deduction for the HUMMER...drives me crazy.

[Kingshakabobo]

100. Here, here!

My Expedition was "keyed" a few months ago. I can only guess it was some idiotic SUV hater. I've been noticing more SUVs with damage on them lately. I saw a white expedition with a big "X" scratched in the back of it on Sunday.

[slackmaster]

3. We just make fun of them because they don't have 4-wheel drive

:evilgrin:

[jdj]

4. what about pickup trucks?

Are pick-ups different than SUV's?

Just curious. I was just wondering this about mini-vans and pick-ups the other day.

If it is a diesel vehicle you can make it into a grease car and save alot of gas.

[Sufi Marmot]

17. How often do people haul a load of gravel or manure in their SUV?

Are pick-ups different than SUV's? If memory serves, of the more noxious arguments against increased fuel standards for SUVs was that they were classified as trucks, and certain legislators argued that increased fuel standards would cause undue harm to pickup truck users.

-SM

[DoYouEverWonder]

39. No, especially since

I've never had the need to haul either one of those materials. However, I do have a small trailer that I can tow, if I ever do get the urge.

[crispini]

101. Heh, I have been known to haul

40 pound bags of compost, or a small load of lumber.

In the back seat.

Of my VW Cabrio convertible.

Hey, it's amazing how much you can get in a car with no roof!

[Catch22Dem]

5. Fuel economy

Minivans typically have much better fuel economy, and serve the same purpose as an SUV.

[SoCalDem]

9. minivans are not "cool".. they haul kids and their attendant junk

SUV's have been made into status symbols.. "HEY LOOK at MEEEEE"..
They are associated with smartly dressed yuppies on their way from a shopping trip at Williams Sonoma, with a side trip for cappucchino..

They are advertised as rugged tough vehicles, but their drivers slow down to 2 mph to traverse a deadly speeeeed bump:)

[BrklynLiberal]

23. ROTFLMAO. I have seen that so many times!!!!!!!!!

Slam on the brakes in the SUV when the see the speed bump...geez! What would they do if they actually had to take it offroad?

[MountainLaurel]

45. Me too

Cracks me the hell up -- I know that my car's suspension system can take a little roughing up on a SPEED BUMP, and then I get behind people driving $50K "off-road" vehicles who act like the damn thing is made of glass.

[ohio_liberal]

35. Hey

You haven't seen my high-speed curb jumping yet. ;)

Disclosure: I have an SUV (s-10 Blazer), 4 kids, and 5 practices of some sort per week :)

[Wickerman]

10. Gas Mileage?

Go here to compare:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass.htm

select class.

[Catch22Dem]

13. Add this to your links

It's also very good: http://www.suvsafety.info/

[Wickerman]

14. Good un!

thanks

[hughee99]

22. Great link!

A friend of mine was talking to my sister-in-law about her "gas hog" SUV (Toyota Rav4) a while back. It's not bad as SUV's go, but it's still an SUV. In any case, he drives a VW Jetta. He's not a real politically guy, but with the rising gas prices, he basically was bragging about how much "foresight" he had when he bought it a few years back. I just looked it up and the Jetta (6 cylinder/std) is actually worse than the RAV4. I'll have to remember to give him some shit next time I see him for his "gas hog".

[Snivi Yllom]

29. amazing link, Minivans are even bigger gas hogs than SUVS

that's all im gonna say

[lynne]

36. I could have told you that -

- as I've got a full size and a mini-van. Great for hauling the kids and lumber and such but they suck, suck, suck on the gas.

[shanti]

86. not my 4 cyl 2005 dodge caravan

i get pretty good gas mileage with it. one caveat though...it should NEVER be made with a 4 cyl. engine!! it's just not powerful enough for a van! biggest mistake was not buying the van with a 6 cyl, but oh well...

*rant over*

[iconoclastNYC]

89. How do you come up with that?

If you didn't scroll down you probably missed all the SUVs with 12-14 MPG. The page is listed best to worst.

[Hobarticus]

12. If the Windstar is larger than the SUV, why would you want an SUV?

That doesn't make sense to me. And maybe that's the question that's on everybody's mind; why buy a hulking vehicle when a smaller, more practical vehicle would suffice, and in this case, be superior?

[Atman]

16. We have multiple uses

We liked the Windstar because we could remove all the seats and camp in it...it held a full size futon mattress, with a few extra feet for gear. Very handy. It seated seven, plus some cargo room. But Windstars are notorious trouble makers, as was ours.

The SUV we looked at was certainly a yuppie mobile. 4X4, but every toy in the world, from heated leather seats and electric defrosters on the outside rear-view mirrors, to sunroof and dual CD/Cassette. PLUS, the rear seats actually fold completely flat, so we can still use it for camping...and actually take it off-road to do so! We no longer need all the room the Windstar had because one of our kids is out, and the other is 17, and doesn't really want to be seen with us, anyway. They get roughly the same mileage, have basically the same size engine.

I refuse to buy a new car and take the devaluation hit when you pull off the lot. Late-model used is always a better deal. I don't like the idea of an SUV, but now that I'm comparing them head-to-head, I just don't see what the difference is. If your argument is that the SUV is "yuppie," that seems like a pretty shallow argument. I'm as far from a yuppie as you can get, but I still need a reliable, spacious car.

[Hobarticus]

69. Never said anything about you or an SUV being "yuppie"...

Our office uses both a minivan and an SUV. The SUV is useless. Can't haul half the stuff in the SUV that we can in the minvan. And I think the ride's smoother.

You yourself said there's more room in a minivan than an SUV. If you're looking for utility, then a minivan makes more sense than an SUV; the insurance is likely cheaper, gas mileage is likely better, the ride's probably nicer, and there's more room.

Sounds like you've made up your mind. Either way, good luck.

[Divernan]

15. Minivan drivers don't display an "I'm king of the road" tude

that one sees in SUVs. These drivers see themselves as invulnerable, and therefore do not drive carefully.(On another DU thread is the story that one SUV (Blazer?) is the deadliest vehicle on the road). Aren't the SUVs much heavier than minivans and that is why they use a lot more gas AND tend to obliterate regular cars in a collision? One hit a regular car during bad weather here last week and put two kid passengers in the car into intensive care at the hospital. SUV driver was going too fast for icy conditions and skidded into the car. The only problem I ever had with minivans on the road is that their height caused line of sight problems for those of us in lower vehicles. But SUVs seem to be driven often by people who are not that skilled at changing lanes or taking corners. They are slow to accelerate when traffic lights switch to green, and cause traffic congestion by reducing the number of vehicles which can proceed at each traffic light cycle. They seem to often be driven by people with the philosophy that bigger is better, and who don't really NEED 4 wheel drive, off-road capability or space to haul stuff. AT my suburban grocery store, there are tons of SUVs driven by soccer moms to pick up a couple of bags of groceries. Maybe they should buy spritz bottles with muddy water so they can make their SUVs look like they've been driven off-road.

[Castilleja]

18. No bitching from me for that

We used to own a Suburban, which is a great people hauler, and live in truck coumtry where they are a necessity for hauling and you name it. Although, I hate the fact that they are increasing in size constantly.

Living where there are so many trucks also means that the majority of the time, when we park the car we are hemmed in by large trucks which block everyones vision when you try to pull out. Honestly, do they ever need to be any larger than the Suburban???

I think people should realize that people do actually need these vehicles, and auto makers should get a clue and improve the mileage they get as well as stop trying to outdo each other size-wise.

[enki23]

19. 1999 Windstar LX gross weight: approx. 4100 lbs.

2005 Ford Explorer gross weight: approx. 5,700 lbs.

the windstar is nt "bigger" in any meaningful sense. (other than interior volume/passenger space)

[DoYouEverWonder]

40. Bet you can't tow?

I tow a trailer and boat on a regular basis. Mini-vans aren't designed for towing.

[enki23]

41. and?

the percentage of people who need towing capacity is significantly smaller than that which drives SUV's.

but that's completely beside the point. the question was about the differences between minivans and SUV's, not whether any particular person might have a valid reason to own an SUV. there are many people for whom it's a fairly reasonable choice. for most owners, however, they are not. and for almost *everyone* they are, clearly, not an indespensible purchase. you don't *need* to tow. i grew up on a farm. we *needed* to tow. we owned a truck. for us, and people like us, it was actually indespensible. you, on the other hand, *like* to tow. whether that's defensible or not is another question, and one i really don't much care about. in any case, most SUV owners don't even have *that* much of a reasonable rationalization.

[DoYouEverWonder]

46. The trialer is for hauling

it is not a camper.

You make a lot of assumptions. Since my husband and I own our own business, we often 'need' to tow all sorts of stuff. Even when we are not towing, we often fill the truck to capacity with stuff for the business, deliveries and with stuff for the booth when we go to trade shows.

Besides I live 5 minutes from my business. If I use a tank of gas a week it's a lot.

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. We towed a Pop up with ours for years.

It's allowed. Buy a two package, just like a truck. :hi:

[DoYouEverWonder]

58. How many transmissions

did you burn out in the process?

The transmissions on most vans are not designed for that type of usage. Especially for loads heavier than a pop up and/or on a regular basis.

[ScreamingMeemie]

68. Absolutely none. Sorry to burst a bubble there.

:hi:

MrGrumpy works on the new vans and the trans are fine for towing.

[jayfish]

81. I Don't Think They Design...

transmissions especially for vans or cars. They have a few models that are interchangeable throughout product lines. You can also add a tow-kit to most trannys. The kits are usually nothing more than an additional cooler for the trans-fluid and shift-point modifications.

Jay

[caligirl]

21. My villager is not very sexy, but it can carry my dog IN his kennel

and our six foot tall sons. It works well, better than an suv would anyway.

[GrapesOfWrath]

24. I believe the difference is the emissions standards...

minivans emissions standards are stricter...the same as those for automobiles. SUV's emissions standards are "looser" the same as trucks.

Bottom line: SUV's are harder on the environment than minivans.

[BrklynLiberal]

26. When it comes to cargo room needs, which in my case would be my German

Sherherd Dog, the Chevy Lumina Mini Van provides MUCH more room than any SUV could possibly provide. Mileage is much better. Center of gravity is lower, therefore it is a safer car. Insurance cost is less. They are lower to the ground so getting into and out of the vehicle is easier.
I cannot think of any advantage to an SUV.
(I always felt there might some sort of psychological compensatory thing going on with this tendency toward driving these HUGE cars, akin to big cigars, and big guns, if you get my drift.)

EDIT: SUVs are categorized as trucks so they don't have as strict emissions standards so they do pollute more.
I would guess, from my experiences, the SUV drivers tend to be more risk takers than minivan drivers, so you are more likely to be in an accident with an SUV driver than an minivan driver. That may be why their insurance is higher.

[seabeyond]

27. they sit lower, i can see the intersection lite

and they dont block view as much, and they arent as wide taking up as much space. it is the vehicles that sit high that obstruct my view. i dont think they use as much gas either. my bitch is more taking up space and not able to see while i am driving kids around town,. or not able to get thru small spaces cause they are huge

btw on edit: my husband looking to replace his trooper with land cruiser and every other member of family have the huge ass vehicle. i also dont want some to not buy something they want, or feel bad about what they have. lol. i will just keep on bitching when i cant see

[Atman]

28. I disagree with these points...that's why I brought up the thread...

Sitting at an intersection next to a Dodge Caravan, while in the SUV...the Caravan was taller and wider. That's when it occurred to me that all the bitching might be a little bit misplaced.

[seabeyond]

30. then i am bitching about that too, lol

really it is my main bitch i come to an intersection to turn left, the huge ass vehicle right up on the line blocking view and i cant move. i had a suv last nite sit back at an intersection i get this often, i was able to turn, i got all excited this person sitting high and able to see was considerate enough to sit back to allow a car to see.

i have never had a van stop me from seeing the stop light, i have had many suvs on left turns i have to ride up to line, and wait while they turn so i can see if lite turned yet.

but..........i am also in panhandle of texas, way more surbans by far than minivans, so maybe i just dont have experience with the van cause we just dont have many around

[Catch22Dem]

31. In the end, you're gonna buy what you want.

You don't need to justify it to anyone. Having said that, I hate SUV's, but I gotta hand it to the Escape for coming out with the Hybrid. It's getting something like 36mpg which is great.

Me personally, I miss the golden age of the conversion van with big ass captain's chairs! :evilgrin: Those were the days of riding comfortably!

[SoCalDem]

32. Ours had captains chairs and a bed in the back that the kids fought over

Plenty of places to sit, and yet they all wanted the same seat :eyes:

[Catch22Dem]

33. LOL, same here (n/t)

[whistle]

37. From 30 years ago, well I did as a two car family back then I

traded in the station wagon gas guzzler for a compact car and kept the mid-size sedan as the family car. It remained that way to this day. I think Chrysler was first to introduced mini-vans, we looked, but I never traded up because of the obvious trend back to gas guzzlers it represented. Still, when one of my adult sons got GMC Tahoe SUV five years ago, I did enjoy the larger size and comfort it provided, but I was then only an occasional passenger. Hey, I can only do my part and keep my desires in check, I can't change the rest of the world's thinking and behaviors.

[XemaSab]

42. Cachet

Way too many SUV drivers are women going to the grocery store. If you're going to haul furniture or go camping or whatever 2x a year, it seems like it would be a lot cheaper to rent a truck for a few days than drive around a gas guzzler all the time, not to mention the insurance.

I've long considered getting some sort of 4WD, but realistically, I would rarely use it, and I live in the mountains and work outdoors. I'm pretty bold about taking the Corolla places where No Corolla Has Gone Before. The area where it's really lacking is clearance, moreso than any other feature, but it's fairly economical to drive, and that means more to me than not being able to get up any roads into the hills for another month. If I had a 4WD, I'd just get myself in trouble. :evilgrin:

Minivans can be fun and handy as long as you actually need them, but again, 95% of the time, something much smaller works for what I need.

[Atman]

47. Corolla's don't count!

We did just about everything you mentioned. We've been dealing with an old Escort and a Corolla with 187,000 miles on it. We finally had to get rid of it because it needed a couple of expensive repairs. But I never had any fear taking the Corolla anywhere. It always started, even the coldest weather. We took it off-roading, even. A friend has a 4x4 with a winch on it...we'd go wildnerness camping in Vermont, and follow as far as we could go, then strap on to his winch and get towed through the rough spots. But the effing Corolla NEVER died. The Escort, I'm afraid to take that to the supermarket without telling people where I'm going should I not be able to get home. It was sad letting the Corolla go, but it had to be done.

While we were without a decent car, which was several months, we were able to dump the expensive insurance, and we did weekend rental specials from Enterprise a lot (once you're a regular customer, you get great upgrades and special rates). Even buying their insurance, it still worked out cheaper to do that every now and then instead of heavy monthly payments for a new vehicle.

As for the SUV, we really, really do need it. We have a place in the woods that I am building myself, and I make a lot of runs for supplies, and have to make it back down the dirt road all loaded up with stuff. Doing that with the Windstar might have been part of what killed it. Plus, I snowboard, as much as possible. At least once a week. I've driven into the mountains with the Escort, and I often feel safer careening down a black diamond on a slab of Kevlar and poplar than I do driving the Escort to the slopes!

[Redstone]

43. You can fit as much stuff (or more) in a STATION WAGON

as you can in an SUV. You can get staton wagons with all-wheel drive.

(I had a Volvo XC70 as a loaner when my car was in the shop last week, and it's almost exactly like driving a sedan, and is a pretty badass vehicle in acceleration to boot.)

You can buy a used station wagon for about the same as a used SUV, unless the SUV in question is some piece of crap like a Blazer.

But you can't "lord it over" car drivers in a station wagon, can you?

Redstone

[William Bloode]

51. Yup,

I can drag an SUV with my Outback, i get better mileage and can go places no SUV will ever go, i also have tons of room. I also own and Isuzu wagon (85) same deal it has over 200,000 miles on it with no major repairs(other than 1 clutch)It's been so reliable i just can't part with the ol' girl. I have an old pick up truck if i need to haul anything or tow anything. I picked it up for $1,500 bux and drive it maybe once a month.

Truth be known there is NO reason to own and SUV, they are a serious waste of space on our roads. Having a couple kids and/or a dog does not mean you need a whale of a vehicle that wastes precious fuel, takes up to much space, and over pollutes the air.

That being said i don't have much against the smaller SUV's, but again my little Outback can drag them around in circles.

[Atman]

52. "Truth be known there is NO reason to own and SUV,..."

Wow. Pretty broad brush you paint with! Have you read the rest of the thread? Truth be told, that wasn't the truth you told. Just your opinion. Thanks for it!

[William Bloode]

59. Go ahead,

Tell me what an SUV can do another vehicle can't handle?

[Atman]

62. By that measure, you don't need the Outback.

Get a Corolla. Or any old beater Ford F150. It'll do the same things. And personally, I HATE Subaru's. They are the only vehicle more prevalent than Ford Tauruses...they're everywhere, they're all the same Green/Grey or Brownish-Green color. And what's with all that superfluous trim?

You see, you love your Subaru, and that is groovy. For you. I'm glad it meets your needs. But I promise you, I've got more cargo room in the back, and the bed lays perfectly flat for sleeping. That is what I need/want in a vehicle.

[William Bloode]

65. Oh,

I see now i don't need a small economical car with alot of room for it's size that can go anywhere in snow or ice? Corallas just can't handle the snow and ice i get up here. And i do have an old beater Ford, i guess you did not read my comment on the old truck. Lotsa other vehicles have plenty of room and a flat space to sleep. Your choice is yours but you still have not shown me what you do with your SUV that can't be done with another vehicle? The only reason one might need a vehicle like that is to haul a large camper(but no fifth wheelers)or a very, very large boat.

[Atman]

66. A vehicle like what?

What kind of vehicle are you calling an SUV? An Expedition, or Hummer? I'm talking about a standard sized SUV, most of which ARE smaller than your average Chrysler minivan these days. Mr. Pot, you're calling me black here...you don't seem to have read my posts, either. I just got rid of a Corolla which would go ANYWHERE, including off-roading. Loved it. And I haul lots of stuff, stuff I wouldn't want all over my passenger-car Subaru.

Again, your measure of what I need seems to be based only upon what works for YOU. Again, again...glad you like your Subaru. But you've offered no more compelling a reason why your shorter-wheelbased, lower- ground-clearance-SUV-disguised-as-a-passenger-car (you do know that Subaru classifies the Outback as an SUV, right?) is the perfect vehicle you claim it to be. You just like it, and seem to think that since it meets your needs, that it is all anyone should want.

Besides, as I said, I simply don't like Subaru's, anyway. I'll tell you what...I won't force you to drive what you don't like. I was simply asking a question...why do SUV's deserve such derision while larger, bulkier, gas hoggy minivans get let off the hook?

[iconoclastNYC]

87. Your facts are all wrong.

Seriously dude. I'd love for you to show me something that says the typical minivan is bigger than the typical SUV and that the minivan burns more gas. I know you love your SUV but you come on!

[TX-RAT]

78. Try this.

Haul 1000lbs of feed while pulling my 26ft horse trailer loaded, up the mountains to the track in Ruidosa NM.
How about hauling My 30ft stock trailer loaded, to the sale barns.
Not to make fun here, but there are many of us that smaller vehicles just don't suit our working life styles.

[snooper2]

91. I can do that with my S-10

But, I only get 17 MPG average city highway...4.3 Vortech V6 I pulled a tandem axle uhaul helping some friends move and I was getting about 12-13 MPG. Pretty shitty huh....

But,
You don't see anybody bitching about S-10's here do you :) :) :)

People are funny.....

[adigal]

92. I can fit 10 pairs of skis in the back of my pickup w/3 kids too

and I cannot even get 3 pairs into my X-Terra, which is an SUV but also has sucky gas mileage. I am looking to trade that in for an Outback. I do need the pick-up. I don't need the X-Terra.

[TX-RAT]

76. my little Outback can drag them around in circles.

Now thats funny. You have an Outback for the little things and have to have a truck for the heavier work.

[TX-RAT]

80. What year is your Outback? Whats your gas mileage?

[TX-RAT]

83. Most SUVs exceed your towing capacity.

Max towing for the Outback is 2700-3000lbs. Sorry that won't pull my smallest trailer while empty.

[tinanator]

103. more importantly station wagons are COOL!

I got five of em :) 2 64 Fairlane 500's, 1 64 Falcon 2 door, a 66 Villager and a 72 Pinto :)
thats nearly a quarter of my collection. And the core of it for me, definitely the best part. (In the end everything I want will be embodied in those 5 vehicles.)
An American classic, custom coach design more practical and cooler than a convertible, and WAY more sensible than any SUV type garbage.

[jedr]

44. great thread, but remember;

to paraphrase George Carlin; " the guy in front of you is an asshole and the guy behind guy is an idiot"....reguardless of what car they drive

[Kingshakabobo]

104. Here it is. One of my favorites and so true...

"Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?"

I think he says "fucking manic"

[democracyindanger]

48. I'm never worried about a minivan turning and flipping over on me

Or hitting me, riding up the hood of my car and crushing me, for that matter.

[LeftyMom]

49. Minivans are safe, and the fuel economy is better then an SUV

(BTW, the Blazer isn't a very good family vehicle. Chevy doesn't approve the rear center seat for a carseat install but it's lap-belt only, which means it really isn't safe for anything else, either.)

The best vans for fuel economy get almost 30mpg, so they do only barely worse than my 4 cyl wagon. The worst get about 20mpg, still better than comparably sized SUVs.

[Atman]

50. See post 29

I don't think you've got the full data. And, I've never seen a minivan get 30 mpg, even the small underpowered ones with 4 cyl engines. Going downhill. With the wind behind them.

[LeftyMom]

54. I saw the link

but the Sienna owners I know say they get 28-30 hwy, lower in town. Since my seven year old car gets better mileage than it's official rating, I have no reason to disbelieve them.

[Misunderestimator]

55. I had a Ford Windstar for a few years, and it got great gas mileage

Nothing at all like SUVs. I averaged about 23 mpg with my Windstar. (on edit... that was mainly city driving too... I got up to 28 on highways)

[jayfish]

85. Same Here And It Has A Very...

big six-cylinder in it. Seems to me that gas-mileage problems in mini-vans come from using underpowered engines in them. The smaller engines have to work harder so mileage is not as good.

Jay

[Stop_the_War]

56. SUV's are more common than Minivans

[driver8]

57. We have a 1997 Honda Odyssey...

It is perfect for hauling the family around and all of the stuff that goes with us. Plus, we get almost the same gas mileage that we get with our Toyota Camry.

People definitely don't buy minivans as status symbols...believe me. If I wanted to look cool, a minivan is the last vehicle I would buy.

[UdoKier]

95. But nobody looks cool in an SUV either.

SUV's only look cool to assholes.

[Sparkle]

60. Your question is "Why no bitching?"

We got enough bitching gong on around here, don't add to it.

[Atman]

63. Well, no, that really is not the question

The question is, why single out SUV's when similarly sized/powered Minivans are just as ubiquitous. It wasn't a call to bitch, come on now. Lighten up, and maybe even answer the question!

[jedr]

67. D/U is all about bitching!

love this "car talk" thread...going on for over three hours...at least two other threads on cars tonight!

[e1ectra]

61. I don't like minivans

They're ugly! And they've got all those kids and soccer balls and juice box drinks flying around in them all the time and the soccer moms not paying attention to their driving because the kids are yelling and screaming ...

Anyway, what a fabulous forum. Nice to be here.

[Atman]

64. Welcome to DU, e1ectra!

Glad you could join our little tea party!

[UdoKier]

96. NMinivans are no uglier than SUVs. They look essentially alike.

Except that that the SUV is up higher to block everyone's view of the road, and the hood sticks out more..

And SUVs are full of the same kid krap.

[TXDemGal]

70. Because I've found that

I can see through and around minivans better than I can through and around anti-social SUVs, which sit higher off the ground and many of which tend to be wider than minivans. Minivans are more like cars in this respect. SUVs are just obnoxious, antisocial, and status badges.

[erpowers]

71. Reasons

I think most liberal/Democrats do not mind when people get SUVs and big trucks when they need to haul thing or when they have a big family. I myself do not have a problem with people who get SUVs for reasons. I do not see a reason for one person to drive around in a big SUV. I contend that people do not make a fuss about people who buy minivans because they think people buy minivans because they have rather large families. It seems that most people think minivans are not very good looking so they think a person would only buy one if they need one. In addition, I think most people probably think minivans get more gas mileage than SUVs.

[adigal]

72. I have a horse, horse trailer

and live in upstate NY, have an 1000 foot driveway that is not always plowed, carry 5 to 10 pairs of skis back and forth to the mountains every weekend, along with 3 to 5 kids. We have a full size 4 door Silverado pickup (with a bumper sticker of Bush and a Chimp) and I need it.

Now, my brother in law, who lives in a part of NYC, and drives around in his huge Toyota, along with the Expeditions and Humvees on the road, has no excuse. No snow, no horse, no trailer, nothing but 3 spoiled rotten little yuppie kids. They have no excuse.

[Touchdown]

73. Read "High and Mighty" by Kieth Bradsher

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1586481231/qid=1110987185/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/002-8865248-4984835?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

It seems that nobody's explaination, most of which were valid, especially the one that said nobody needs one, is convincing enough for you. So maybe footnotes, studys, statistics, economics, and the history of SUVs might take you from what you apparently set up as a rhetorical question just for target practice. Read the book. It does explain in detail a lot of what people here have said.

I always find it amazing that people say that "There is a need" or "They have their uses", but nobody else around the world has demonstrated that there is a "NEED" for an SUV in citys or highways...unless they live on the Serenghetti, Outback, Borneo, Amazon Forest, or are a Gulag driver in Siberia.

[VTMechEngr]

74. Does anyone here consider a a VW Bus as an SUV?

I have a 77 since I like the old air-cooled VW and I would like to restore it someday. It has an 1/8 inch of steel in front of the driver and 67 HP for acceleration, But due to design, can transport as much cargo as an F350. Technically, its just a truck or van, since the sport part is severely lacking, but I wonder about some of statements like slow to take off from a stoplight. Is it really SUVs you hate, or large vehicles in general? The size is about the same as a minivan.

[TX-RAT]

90. Love them VWs

Never had Bus, i had a few bugs and a couple of 181's.

[DelawareValleyDem]

75. Consider this

The 2005 Ford Explorer XLT 2WD is rated 16 city/21 Highway with a 4 Liter Engine and can carry 5 people

The 2005 Ford Freestar SEL mini van is rated 17/23 with a 4.2 Liter Engine and can carry 7 people.

For general people and cargo moving, minivans are a more practical choice. SUVs excel at towing and off-roading, yet are the more popular choice even for people who don't need that feature, hence the bad rap

[lectrobyte]

79. Is it because minivans are generally more fuel efficient and driven

less aggressively?

[CornField]

88. Come to Iowa!!

Minivans are the tools of Satan!

Take any nice, kind, soft-spoken Iowa woman and place her in the driver's seat of a minivan... move out of the way! They honk... they flip-off... they drive down the middle of two-lane roads...

There is something extremely evil about them, I tell ya.

BTW, I drive an SUV (Jeep Grand Cherokee) and I get better gas milage than the minivan moms... and I can haul more stuff... and I don't get stuck on muddy country roads. :)

[TWiley]

82. Mini-vans have the little fishies on the back.

It is illegal to criticize them

[BiggJawn]

84. Because it's not nice to make fun of the Poor.

Minivans are desperation vehicles. You drive one because you HAVE to, not because you think you look impressive in one.

[UdoKier]

97. Minivans are not cheap. They're in the same price range as many SUVs

That's why I still drive an Escort wagon. And funny that your post actually seems to be making fun of the poor.

[BiggJawn]

99. How so?

"And funny that your post actually seems to be making fun of the poor."

I don't see it. I feel sorry for people who have to drive those fucking pieces of shit with their cardboard engines spewing enough blue smoke to wipe out West Nile.
They may be expensive new, but after they get 50,000 miles on them and are at the end of their lives...

[wideopen]

102. I'd be interested

to know what your driving biggJawn?

[BiggJawn]

105. Ok, fair question.

After 30 years of driving the afore mentioned oil-smoke spewing, parts dropping, abandon your ass by the side of the road, nickel and dime you to death pieces of shit, I finally said "No more fucking HOOPDIES" and bought a 2000 Ford Ranger XLT.

After 30 years of driving shit, laying on my back on an ice-covered driveway fixing shit, and walking 9 miles in the rain to go get somebody to to take me and my tools back to the shit, wouldn't you agree that I've PAID my fucking dues?

probably not.

Minivans are a perfect example, IMO, of how Detroit screws the poor. Crappy throw-away shit that barely outlives the payment book.

[wideopen]

107. Easy now--

Sounds like you had a bad experience. Not to defend minivans, because I've had a few issues myself, but detroit puts out a lot of other shit that isn't worth owning beside minivans. If I get another ot will be honda or toyota.

[RatRacer]

110. Not my experience

My parents had an early 90s model Dodge Caravan. Put about 180,000 miles on it with no major problems, just normal maintenence things (brakes, tuneups, getting belts/hoses replaced when needed, etc.). I have a 2000 Honda Odyssey with 68,000 on it and nary a problem thus far. In fact, recently had the mechanic give it a good look over before a major trip and he said the thing is in awesome condition.

[BiggJawn]

112. Like they say, "YMMV"

Honda makes good stuff. even the Element is only guilty of being ugly. My GF put 180,000 on a Civic and thge engine was still perfect. Original clutch, too.

I'm glad your folks had good luck with their Chrysler Minivan. Most of the ones I see rattling down the road aen't so nice to their owners.

[BluGrl]

93. Because:

1. Smaller engines
2. Carpool factor
3. Safety
4. They aren't usually cool, although mine is!

[UdoKier]

94. Minivans are safer, more fuel-efficient, and less of a pain in the ass.

Minivans don't block the view of people in normal cars the way hideous SUVs do, they don't turn over and kill their passengers like SUVs do. Many of them get 25 mpg - and they usually have MORE usable space than a Stupid Ugly Vehicle does. The only justification for having an SUV is if you need a 4x4 to lug a soccer team to the Overlook Hotel from 'the Shining' everyday in the winter. People in the 'burbs buy them for 2 stupid reasons: as a moronic suburban status symbol, and because they feel badass because they are sitting 3 feet higher than everybody else. All the stuff about needing space is BS. And they are sure as hell not safer in an accident.

But hey it's a free country. If you're that conformist that you need an SUV, go get one. Put on your GAP® sweatshirt, drink your Starbuck's Crappucino® and go buy a mountain of useless crapola at Wal-Mart. After all, we'll be dead by the time the chickens come home to roost and it's our kids that will be wading in garbage and exhaust and melted ice caps.

[wideopen]

98. I always hated minivans...until I got one

I always said "I'll never own a minivan",but 2 kids and a large dog later I wouldn't trade it for anything else. They really are the only option if you need to carry 6 adults w/stuff and still want good gas milage. Comfy ride,easy on tires,all the luxurys, don't knock it till you try it.

[TrogL]

106. What's wrong with Windstars?

our old Ford Windstar shit the bed last year (as all Windstars do)

OK, besides...

• the rust
  
• blowing head gaskets
  
• overheating problems (bad rad fans)
  

[LondonReign2]

108. Because no one buys a minivan because their penis is tiny

n/t

[methinks2]

109. We have a chevy astrovan, '97 and still going strong,

and we can really load it up.

[Pepperbelly]

111. minivan millage approaches ...

sedans and exceed some of them.