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I live in another world than this wing of the party.."Advancing Democracy"

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 12:53 AM
Original message
I live in another world than this wing of the party.."Advancing Democracy"
Edited on Sun Mar-13-05 01:02 AM by madfloridian
It is like they are seeing another reality altogether. I can not believe this is my country's view of the world now, and I hope the people are not all falling for the meme about Bush's middle east success in building Democracy. I have seen the Daily Show and Bill Maher advance this "Bush did a good thing" idea, as well as some news anchors. I had not seen this at the DLC website.

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=131&subid=192&cont...

SNIP....."The last couple of months have witnessed an important, if fragile, upsurge of pro-democratic activity in the Arab Middle East, a region of the world where the absence of political and economic freedom has helped produce the stagnation and isolation that has contributed to the rise of Islamic Jihadism.

First, there were the elections held by the Palestinian Authority. Then came the surprisingly successful elections in Iraq (successful at least in participation, as the ultimate results are still uncertain), held under the threat and the actuality of terrorist violence. Next came Egyptian President Mubarak's decision to allow opposition candidates to contest his re-election. And most recently, an outbreak of popular sentiment following the assassination of Lebanese opposition leader Rafik al-Hariri led to the resignation of the pro-Syrian government in that country, and could now lead to the withdrawal of Syrian troops.

After decades with virtually no open democratic activity in the region, the quick succession of these events suggests they are connected, and could produce still more breakthroughs as the long-suppressed democratic forces of the Arab Middle East gain strength and courage. It is vitally important for the United States to do everything possible to promote this trend.

SNIP..."Meanwhile, some on the political left, in an ironic endorsement of these theories, have been slow to embrace the pro-democratic trend in the region, reflecting a general temptation to reject anything Bush supports, even if it reflects long-held Democratic and democratic values and traditions...."

The rest of the article indicates they agree fully with marching Democracy throughout the mideast, they just don't want as militaristic a stance. They do not mention the price we paid in honor, and in the loss of our moral standards by the use of torture, the killing of civilians, the flattening of large cities, leaving many homeless.

Their goals are the same as Bush's goals. These are the talking points for the New Democrats.




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missouri dem 2 Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think that it is all about peak oil. Democracy is just the smoke screen
The elites are united in the need to protect the oil at all costs.
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. they're always sniveling about the "far left" that can't "see" and "accept
the glory of war or mandated exploitation.
And, of course, going against them is "back-stabbing."
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98geoduck Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. I heard Joe Klein say that dem's problems aren't going to be solved by
"reactionary democrats". If he were anywhere near me, i would have to smack him in the head. Unfortunatley, the public sucks up his sort of rhetoric like sponge.
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Enquiringkitty Donating Member (721 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. They don't mention that the Democracy and freedoms only apply to men...
women didn't use to be forced to wear those covers and there use to be female doctors and researchers.....not now. One woman said that she couldn't live in her old apartment now, she was told that she must live with her father or other male relative who was willing to take responsibility for her. She was very upset.

Democracy and freedom is just a cover...there were no WMD...there was no connection to the Talaban...they had to come up with some reason for our troops to be there.
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ConservativeDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 03:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. INTERESTING SNIP THERE, MADFLORIDIAN
Let's see what you left out:
Unfortunately, some on the political right in this country have embraced the argument that this whole series of events was produced purely and simply by the invasion of Iraq, suggesting that the U.S. Armed Forces are our primary vehicle for promoting democracy, and that invading and toppling a tyrannical state now and then guarantees the spread of freedom. A less dangerous, but equally flawed, conservative idea is that President Bush's many speeches on freedom and democracy have produced these welcome events, through a sort of rhetorical enchantment of the Arab Middle East, and that more of such speeches will have the same effect in the future.

Meanwhile, some on the political left, in an ironic endorsement of these theories, have been slow to embrace the pro-democratic trend in the region, reflecting a general temptation to reject anything Bush supports, even if it reflects long-held Democratic and democratic values and traditions.
Did that last bit sting a little, MF? Did it stir a guilty jolt? Enough to snip it out? Apparently not. You seem set to prove their observation.

The truth is that encouraging peaceful transition to Democracy is a good thing, especially, as this bi-partisan proposal specifies, as a set of well funded information offices.

But leave it to you to characterize promoting Democracy peacefully as pejoratively as you can - "marching Democracy through the Mideast" with "not as militaristic a stance". Because this article touting a positive alternative to our country's current activities in the region isn't sufficiently bitter and divisive for your taste, because it even has attracted the support of some moderate Republicans, the DLC must be, perforce, "seeing a different reality".

In reality, centrist Democrats are perfectly aware of the failures of Bush's war. Even those who supported the idea in concept think he totally screwed it up. But it is not enough to just say "no". You also have to promote your own alternative solutions. Which is what centrists do.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. That paragraph is there. I even commented on it.
THAT paragraph is the one I am most referring to in my post. That is the one that got my temper up. They always refer the left as unable to comprehend basic concepts...which of course is ridiculous.
Please note that is the one I refer to in my next paragraph..about they are praising the war effort and failing to note the horrors. They refer to these things as "our values."


I assume you refer to this one.
SNIP.."Meanwhile, some on the political left, in an ironic endorsement of these theories, have been slow to embrace the pro-democratic trend in the region, reflecting a general temptation to reject anything Bush supports, even if it reflects long-held Democratic and democratic values and traditions...."

That is most definitely in my post. I referred to it in this paragraph I wrote.

SNIP.."The rest of the article indicates they agree fully with marching Democracy throughout the mideast, they just don't want as militaristic a stance. They do not mention the price we paid in honor, and in the loss of our moral standards by the use of torture, the killing of civilians, the flattening of large cities, leaving many homeless....."

I think I was fair. I do not like the way they pushed this war, and they did. They were 100% for this war. If they want to stop telling the chairman to butt out, the nose to the grindstone stuff and all that....well, I'll back off.

Oh, and by your definition, I am no centrist. Please read my post carefully before using all caps to shout at me. In fact the more you guys yell at me here the more leftist fringe I become.


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ConservativeDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Apologies for the "CAPS"
That was uncalled for.

But I stand by the rest of what I said. This piece was not controversial. It did not deserve to be edited to make it seem like an attack against mainstream Democratic positions.

If you have a problem with a real DLC position, you should post about that. Hell, depending on what it is, I might even agree with you. But misrepresenting the opposition is what Republicans do, not Democrats. Try to remember that.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. My posts about the DLC have been quite fair.
The piece may not be controversial to you, but I am tired of their implications about those who did not approve of the war. They will start out an article all nice and friendly, then bam!

Don't get me started.
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