Email from co-worker

[MelissaB]

I got the same one from my boss (principal of our school). This time it came from a guy I work with. I usually just delete this crap and don't say anything. I'd like to reply to this one, but I need help. Any ideas about the people quoted here or quotes from our founding fathers? BTW, this had the pictures of most things talked about. They just aren't showing up in this post.

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Subject: never see this on cnn.

DID YOU KNOW?
As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S. Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view ... it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!
.

DID YOU KNOW?

As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door.


DID YOU KNOW?

As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall,
right above where the Supreme Court judges sit,
a display of the Ten Commandments!


DID YOU KNOW?

There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington, D.C.


DID YOU KNOW?

James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement:

"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."


DID YOU KNOW?




Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said:
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

DID YOU KNOW?

Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.


DID YOU KNOW?

Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.


DID YOU KNOW?

Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin making law . an oligarchy .
the rule of few over many.


DID YOU KNOW?

The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said:
"Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."


How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this country is now suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?
.

Forward this to everyone you can. Lets put it around the world and let the world see and remember what this great country was built on.

Thank you!!




Chamber, US House of Representatives



I was asked to send this on if I agreed or delete if I didn't. Now it is your turn...
It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore, it is very hard to understand why there is such a mess about having the Ten Commandments on display or "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the other 14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!!

If you agree, pass this on, if not simply delete

[globalvillage]

1. Do you work in a public school? n/t

[MelissaB]

7. yes

[globalvillage]

13. This is just wrong

on so many levels.
Most companies have policies against e-mail abuse. If this were discovered where I work, the sender would be reprimanded, and I am not paid with taxpayer money (directly).
Guess there's not much you can do, but it really is a shame. You would think a school administrator could make better use of his time and taxpayer resources.

[MelissaB]

14. The principal is usually the one sending this crap.

I've kept many emails he has sent in case I ever need them for anything. I've asked him nicely not to pump prayer across the intercom into my classroom. :)

[mcscajun]

2. Start here

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

The above will clarify and/or correct much of what's in the e-mail you received.

Then, take this up as good points well made:

James L. Evans

10 reasons to not post 'Big Ten'

After avoiding the issue for about as long as possible, the Supreme Court will finally take on public displays of the Ten Commandments.

The high court will review two cases this term, one involving a monument on the Texas Capitol grounds and the other a posting of the Ten Commandments in Kentucky courthouses.

A decision should be rendered by the end of the term in late June.

While they deliberate, let's review the Top 10 Reasons why the court should rule against public displays of Scripture.

# No. 10. Posting the Ten Commandments endorses Protestant Christianity.
Almost all of the displays use the King James Version of the commandments — a Protestant distinctive. Roman Catholics and followers of Judaism use a different translation.

# No. 9. Public displays of the Ten Commandments reduce all other religions to second-class status.
Not all religions in our country are part of the Judeo-Christian tradition. And because it is still possible to be a citizen of this country without being a Christian, all religions must be treated equally.

# No. 8. Displaying the Ten Commandments as a way of trying to improve the social order reinforces a magical view of religion.
Proponents say that if we display the Ten Commandments, children will behave better in school and our nation will be blessed for acknowledging God. Thinking this way reduces the Ten Commandments down to the level of a lucky rabbit's foot. The impact of the Ten Commandments comes when they are taught by faithful teachers, not when they are dangling from a keychain.

# No. 7. Public displays of Scripture corrupt the true purpose of religious practice.
God did not send the Ten Commandments or the Sermon on the Mount in order to "create a more perfect union." These Scriptures represent an ideal community far more difficult to attain than the mere democracy we struggle with.

# No. 6. Public displays of Scripture corrupt the true purpose of government.
Every time in history the state has acted on behalf of God, blood has flowed in the streets. God may work through the state as God chooses, but that does not mean everything the state does is God's will. Keeping church and state separate makes it possible for the faith community to remind the state of its temporal limitations as needed.

# No. 5. Public displays of the Ten Commandments are a form of idolatry. Anytime we treat as ultimate something we have made with our own hands, we are worshipping idols. Even if the words on the monument are God's, the monument is ours. That's why one of those commandments warns against graven images.

# No. 4. Grouping the Ten Commandments with other historical documents distorts the history of all. The United States was established as a secular state, not a theocracy. And Moses was not present at the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

# No. 3. Public displays of religion promote social disorder by setting groups of people against each other. The only way America works is if we guarantee equal freedom for everyone.

# No. 2. A public display of Scripture trivializes what is supposed to be important and profound. Do we really want our sacred texts treated like soda pop ads?

# And the No. 1 reason the court should rule against public displays of the Ten Commandments — God wants them written on our hearts, and that's not going to happen just because they are on display down at the courthouse.

James L. Evans is pastor of Auburn First Baptist Church. He can be reached at [email protected].

[jdj]

3. Moses with a full frontal?

eek, is this like the Bulldog full frontal?

Is Moses the one that had sex with his daughters?

Did you know?

My question would be, did you know fundies are so stupid they have to plaster the '10 habits of ordinary decent people' all over the fucking country but they still haven't learned to follow them yet?

Tell 'em that these words are actually instructions on morality, not a brand-name or something. They act like the commandments are the jordache jeans of law codes or something, the coolest and hippest to slap all over stuff without actually getting you're supposed to do them, not just wear them or hang them up somewhere.

[UdoKier]

4. DID YOU KNOW?

That even iff the country HAD been founded on Christian teachings, I would STILL be in favor of striking every single one of them from the constitution, because a just society cannot force religion on people or favor one religion over others.


And besides, there IS an establishment clause in the constitution, PERIOD.

[MissB]

5. snopes

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

[B Calm]

21. Snopes is always the site to go to first!

[ET Awful]

6. First glaring line of bullshit is that Madison is not "the father of the

Constitution"

Jefferson wrote the Constitution. He himself said in 1787 "Question with boldness even the existence of a god."

George Washington signed, and Congress ratified the Treaty of Tripoli which states in no uncertain terms that "As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

[CubsFan1982]

9. Dude, Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence.

Jefferson was in France at the time. Madison was actually AT the Constitutional Convention in 1787. Read a book, for Christ's sake. :eyes:

[MelissaB]

8. Thank you all!

I love this place. :hug:

[kittenpants]

10. Just because there are examples of church and state mixing, it doesn't

mean it's right.

[kittenpants]

11. oops, dupe

[jmowreader]

12. But you can only see five of the ten commandments!

The five commandments you can see are secular--no lying, no killing, no adultery, no stealing and no coveting. The creator of the image hid the religious ones.

[Solon]

15. Godsdammit!!!!

The THEME of the Supreme Court Building, built in the 20th century for crying out loud is LAWGIVERS!!!! I've seen this BS before, they also have Hammarabi, Mohommed and a shitload of other guys, including my namesake on this board as historical lawgivers, THAT'S ALL!!!!

[phylny]

16. I got something similar from a family member

It was another one of those "God and country" sorts of things that people pass around, regarding separation of church and state. It specificaly mentioned "no praying in schools."

Here's what I wrote back:

First, a little background:

"As the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,--as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquillity of Messelmen, --and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mohammedan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever interupt the harmony existing between the two countries"

--Treaty of Tripoli in 1797, Article XI, written by Joel Barlow (USA diplomat) and Hassan Bashaw (of Algers), late during George Washington's second term and later ratified by President John Adams. Original and copies preserved in the national Archives in Washington, DC. under Treaty series no.358. Official Senate treaty found in the American State Papers, Foreign Relations, II p. 18-19. "Treaties and Other International Acts of the United States of America" vol.2, edited by Hunter Miller, US. Government printing office, 1931, p.349-385.

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"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"--John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson

---------

As I know you know, prayer in public schools is *not* prohibited. In fact, people in our country are *free* to pray anywhere and anytime they like. What is prohibited is mandatory prayer, as it should be.

Our Founding Fathers specifically did not put "God" in our constitution, as most were Deists. There is nothing in this great country of ours that prohibits us from reading the bible, praying, or worshipping God. However, in our country, we do not force others to do so. Separation of church and state is a gift for us all, religious or not, Christian or not.

Thomas Jefferson felt that religion was a private matter. He even created a bible that focused only on the teachings of Christ, to focus on what Christ's message truly was.

A quote from James Madison:
"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

I, as a Christian woman, am very happy to live in a country where I am free to worship how I want, in a place where others are free not to worship. We don't need God's name on money, or in a pledge to worship him. Jesus said, "Whatsoever you do to the least of these, my brothers and sisters, you do unto me." We should worship him by serving each other, feeding the poor, helping those less fortunate than we are. Which would be more valued by God?

Here's more interesting reading. You should truly click on the link, as I think the information is very good and sound:

http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/dispatch/fathers_quote2.htm

----

Me again: I got a very positive response, which surprised me. :)

[MelissaB]

18. That is excellent!

You did VERY well. Thanks for all the ideas.

[brindis_desala]

17. You might circulate an email of your own (for discussion...)

Of all of the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny
of religion is the worst" -Thomas Paine

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because if there be one he must approve of the homage
of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10,
1787

"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical
establishments had on civil society? In many instances
they have been upholding the thrones of political
tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the
guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who
wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the
clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government,
instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not
need the clergy." - James Madison

"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support
itself; and when it does not support itself, and God
does not take care to support it so that its
professors are obliged to call for help of the civil
power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad
one". - Benjamin Franklin, in a letter to Richard
Price. October 9, 1790

"A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon
devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive
of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
to be God-fearing and pious."- Aristotle, 343 B.C.

[MelissaB]

20. Thank you, brindis_desala!

I have seen some of these before, but didn't have them saved anywhere. Excellent!!

[mondo joe]

19. Just write back and ask how many of the 10 c's are in US law

See what she or he says.

[Jokinomx]

22. A couple of quotes....

The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy."
-George Washington

“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” George Washington

“Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, ‘this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.’” John Adams in a letter to Charles Cushing

"The clergy, by getting themselves established by law, & ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man. They are still so in many countries & even in some of these United States. Even in 1783, we doubted the stability of our recent measures for reducing them to the footing of other useful callings. It now appears that our means were effectual." Thomas Jefferson

“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own” Thomas Jefferson

"One day the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in the United States will tear down the artificial scaffolding of Christianity. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
Thomas Jefferson (I am still waiting for this to occur)

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise" James Madison

“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”
James Madison

" civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner or on any pretext infringed."
James Madison introducing the Bill of Rights....June 8th 1789

“Denominated a Deist, the reality of which I have never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian.” Ethan Allan

"My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." Thomas Paine from the "Age of Reason"



As you can see many of the Founding Fathers had had enough with religion. That is why they left England.... to be free from the those that persecuted dissenting opinions.

You can check out these and many others at

http://www.deism.org/frames.htm

[KaliTracy]

23. This isn't exactly about the 10 commandments, but about taking the Bible

at "face value" (it's been passed around the net a few times I'm sure......)

**

Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses advice to
people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an
Observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to
Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.

The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident,
which was posted on "The Bible and Violence" board. It's funny, as
well as informative.

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I
have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that
knowledge with as many people as I can.

When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I
simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an
abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you,
however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates
a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev. 1 : 9. The problem is my neighbors.
They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
Exodus 21 : 7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair
price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in
her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. Lev.25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and
female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A
friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination - Lev.11:10, it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by
Lev.19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev.11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes
me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two
different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing
garments made of two different kinds of thread cotton/polyester blend. He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident
you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan,

edit: errant smilies