Hospitals can end life support based onpatient's ability to pay, prognosis

[elehhhhna]

Hospitals can end life support
Decision hinges on patient's ability to pay, prognosis
By LEIGH HOPPER
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

Bill Olive / Chronicle
(L-r)Mario Caballero, Spiro Nikolouzos Jr. and Jannette Nikolouzos. St. Luke's notified Jannette Nikolouzos in a March 1 letter that it would withdraw life-sustaining care of her husband of 34 years, Spiro Nikolouzos, in 10 days.
A patient's inability to pay for medical care combined with a prognosis that renders further care futile are two reasons a hospital might suggest cutting off life support, the chief medical officer at St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital said Monday.


Dr. David Pate's comments came as the family of Spiro Nikolouzos fights to keep St. Luke's from turning off the ventilator and artificial feedings keeping the 68-year-old grandfather alive.

St. Luke's notified Jannette Nikolouzos in a March 1 letter that it would withdraw life-sustaining care of her husband of 34 years in 10 days, which would be Friday. Mario Caba-llero, the attorney representing the family, said he is seeking a two-week extension, at minimum, to give the man more time to improve and to give his family more time to find an alternative facility.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3073295

[trotsky]

1. What a quandary for the religious reich!

"Right to life" vs. paying for this with their tax dollars. Oh my, how will the wingnuts ever reconcile this one?

[Warpy]

5. No kidding

although I can't think of better karma for the rich and selfish than to have their corpses hooked up to life support indefinitely, or until their fortunes have all been spent on keeping them trapped in a useless body.

[tom_paine]

27. They will "reconcile it " by letting poor people die and not worrying a

SECOND over it.

Watch.

[MissB]

2. And yet the Bush administration will fight assisted suicide tooth and nail

Blech. Take away their choice, but when they can no longer afford to pay.........

[deek]

3. Here it comes.......

don't say we didn't warn you.

[BlueEyedSon]

4. Plutocracy = rights only for the rich.

[Skidmore]

6. Has anyone considered the flip side of this--

if you don't have enough money, there may be a correspondingly decreased effort to provide you with adequate treatment? I'm sure this happens. When it does, how does that fit into right to life?

[bonito]

17. alternative medicine

I'm there , been there for 7 years, not because of cost, but conventional medicine wasen't working, I guess thats how I got into alternative news as well.

[tavalon]

26. Ask Andy Stephenson about this one n/t

[bleedingheart]

7. Yet Schiavo is living off of Florida's Medicaid System...

what a joke.

[BiggJawn]

8. Off to the Soylent Green factory with you, Spiro...

what a wonderful, wonderful world it would be...

Everytime our local hospital LLC runs one of their "We're in the CARING business" adverts, I laugh my ass off.
If they're all so much into "caring", why do most their doctors live out in "The Farms", and have SUV's named "Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday..."

[alfredo]

9. Ahh, the miracle of the marketplace.

[bleedingheart]

10. bump...important article...

[LynnTheDem]

11. And we're "the greatest" in the world...HOW???

Yes DAMN that Cuban and Canadian etc medical systems!

RAH RAH AMERICA!

We're the BEST!

We're the GREATEST!

If you're rich.

[davsand]

12. The poor die for lack of care.

It is now out in the open. If you are poor they will let you die. It makes me ill to read this shit. It also makes me more determined that I will not sit down and shut up on the health care issue.



Laura

[bonito]

18. don't let "them"

Take matters in your own hands,my wife was constantly battling lung infections.and the doctors could not stop it. well I did with this great computer, its called colloidal silver it was right in front of me, and I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I JUST DON'T GIVE UP! we need to take health care in our own hands instead of thaking everything that the drug companys say we need.

[davsand]

13. Kicking this back up.

Everyone needs to see this!

Laura

[grasswire]

14. eugenics of sorts

The Bush family has been enamored of eugenics for generations. George the Elder, when a U.S. Congressman, earned the nickname "Rubbers" from his peers for his continuous blathering on the idea of de-populating "lesser" peoples.

There is no downside to this, in their eyes.

[blondeatlast]

15. And this ISN'T extortion HOW?! What the RW can't do:

Imagine getting this notification.

Put themselves in Janette's place. Pay up or your husband dies.

Good God, we've hit the absolute bottom now.

Right now, I'm glad I'm a bleeding heart; that poor woman needs all the love she can get.

[blondeatlast]

16. Having a bleeding heart is a bad thing HOW?

Janette, every prayer I can spare is for you and your family.

Good God.

[CHIMO]

19. Utterly Crazy

Do any on the ethics committee stand to benefit from this person dying? Either from a non paying patient or by having a bed that a paying patient might occupy?

Can everyone on the ethics committee stand up and defend themselves against a murder charge or at least against an assisted suicide charge. This must be the absolute max of justified corporatism.

[gulfcoastliberal]

20. Socializing this insane system is the only answer, but it'll never happen.

Disgusting insurance companies.

[FM Arouet666]

21. That won't work

Socialized medicine means a tight control over resources and expenditures. Everyone gets health care, but you lose a certain amount of freedom and access. This patient would have died under most socialized health care systems.

Who gets dialysis, bypass surgery, an MRI or CT Scan is regulated under socialized systems. Based on age, concomitant medical conditions etc. Here in the U.S. your 95 with lung cancer in renal failure, not problem, you get dialysis. Your 75, still smoking and need bypass surgery, no problem. It is different in a socialized system.

I am not saying our system is better or worse, both have pros and cons.

[not fooled]

22. Calling John Asscrack...

...or Mr. Torture, current AG Albertorturer Gonzalez. Didn't Asscrack file suit against Oregon over its assisted-suicide law?

Well, now we have people dying here too. Why isn't the AG all over these hospitals???

Oh wait, there's money to be made off of poor people in this case. Never mind. :eyes:

[autorank]

23. Tough question...but I agree with the principle

I have a real problem with forced financial obligations. I see it when courts mandate treatment for a minor and thus entail payment by parents. This is often times a positive outcome but I'm always a bit bothered by the ability of the state to force payment for a service the state insists upon.

I reflected on the Florida situation. Through litigation and publicity, the ill woman's parents essentially obligated the hospital to provide ongoing, highly expensive life support. I understand the need and moral obligation for hospitals to provide acute care for any patient. They are bound by law to do this in most states. Long term life support is another matter altogether. While it would be hard to argue against this if there is an ability and willingness to pay (willingness is key, it can't be forced), long term life support is the decision of the spouse or legal guardian. When spouses or families have no ability to pay, they should NOT be able to obligate, nor should the state be able to do so (unless it pays) for the cost of long term care for life support.

Demanding huge expenses for long term health care for someone with little or no chance of recovery is wrong unless those expenses can be covered by the family. IF the state is willing to pay, that would be acceptable given unlimited resources. However, it is a public policy issue since the cost would be huge. As far as hospitals are concerned, the funding source shouldn't matter as long as it is there. It it's not, then life support should not be an option.

[kineneb]

24. But how about those who can't afford their meds?

I see it as almost the same issue. You have, say, diabetes, but you can not afford the proper meds, so you wind up being sicker or dying from lack of medication/care. "Pay up at the pharmacy, or we let you die!". It just happens slower.

[tsuki]

25. Let's send the Jebster over there to fight for Spiro.

[manly]

28. Subject: pay or die

This sounds like a skit from SNL.

[Red State Rebel]

29. How horrible for this family!

I can't believe people would even consider doing this.