You'll be pleased to know that Sgrena's claims are "ABSURD"

[Jacobin]

Quoting from the Head of the Ministry of Truth, Mr. McClellan:

WASHINGTON - The White House on Monday said it was “absurd” for an Italian journalist to charge that U.S. military forces may have deliberately targeted her car as she was being escorted by Italian agents who had just negotiated her freedom from hostage-takers.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said the car carrying Giuliana Sgrena was traveling on one of the most dangerous roads in Iraq on Friday when it was fired upon. An Italian intelligence officer in the car was shot and killed.

Responding to Sgrena’s statement that the car may have been deliberately targeted, McClellan said. “It’s absurd to make any such suggestion, that our men and women in uniform would deliberately target innocent citizens."

“That’s just absurd,” McClellan repeated.

So, there you have it. Straight from the Truth Teller's mouth that the journalist whose car got shot up in a Bonnie and Clyde epic attack is just 'absurd', after Scotty has evidently fully investigated this whole incident and is now ready to put it all completely behind the country.

I hope the Italian people riot in the street for a month until they get their BushBot Prime Minister to get out of Smirky's underwear.

[sojourner]

1. Predictable....didn't you notice how her

story started getting a little less "consistent" as reported by US press?

"Just another activist with an ax to grind..." "Move along sheeple, nothing to see here........" <sarcasm>

[dave123williams]

2. Note that he calls it 'absurd' but doesn't call it 'un-true'.

[ashmanonar]

10. that's RIGHT!

absurd isn't untrue. it's just crazy, or perhaps unusual?

[dave123williams]

74. It's a non-denial denial...it's how they lie without technically lying,

All the President's Men - great movie about how they close ranks.

[AllegroRondo]

11. Same thing he said about invading Iran last week

"rediculous", but not untrue

[Blue_Roses]

3. this comes from a guy who called on a male prostitute

for over 2 years to cover this WH's lying ass...:eyes: yeah, Scotty, you are so unbiased and resort to nothing but facts...

Give me an effing break...:eyes: your credibility when down the drain a long time ago

[Democrats_win]

4. Never cry "absurd." Get a Thesaurus!

Perhaps they use absurd so often because the other words are just too absurd and reminds everyone of bush?

Absurd: foolish, balmy, crazy, harebrained, George W. Bush, insane, potty, preposterous, silly, wacky.

[FreedomAngel82]

78. I bet

if you looked in the dictionary next to "absurb" you'd see Scotty. :eyes:

[sui generis]

5. this is where you pay the fiddler for dancing Scott

you see, when you say it's okay to assassinate non-citizens in the name of national security these kinds of questions come up again and again.

It's absurd to not be paranoid.

[livinginphotographs]

6. Whew, I feel much better.

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. Oh Puhleeeeze Scottie. Save it for the sheeple, would ya?

You and your administration are the LAST people to be believed. That comment only tells me her comment is INDEED TRUE!

[neweurope]

8. The Italian minister of communication used these same words:

"That's just absurd"...

I'm convinced they targeted her on purpose.

-------------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[underpants]

9. How could they know that? Aren't they investigating?

Or does Scottie already know the truth?

He must have seen the first draft they already worked up.

[LibertyorDeath]

12. Can anyone verify this bit of info

" Sgrena's car, the US claims, is now "lost," and cannot be inspected

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/03/benefit-of-dumb.html

Is this legit is this what they're expecting us to swallow?

[DoYouEverWonder]

49. Yes, AP put out that story yesterday

they say they asked the US officials if they could see the car and they were told that they didn't know where the car is.

I'm sure it's just in for a little detailing, before they 'find' it.

[LibertyorDeath]

59. Thanks

[FreedomAngel82]

79. That doesn't make sense to me

Wouldn't they want to protect the car to prove their story? :eyes: And they knew she was leaving. The US military over there controls everything in security.

[Padraig18]

13. This whole things is a gigantic clusterfuck, and what I want are FACTS

I'm sick and tired of the uninformed speculation on BOTH sides!

:puke::grr:

[Minstrel Boy]

17. you know what I'm sick and tired of?

People who dismiss the word of Giuliana Sgrena as "uninformed speculation."

[Padraig18]

20. That's not what I said.

The uninformed specualtion I clearly referred to was from anonymous posters. No other reading of my post is reasonable.

[clem_c_rock]

22. Yeah, you know after 20 consecutive lies, 10's of 1000's killed

You know the 21st story just might be the truth. Come on people, give the Bush/PNAC the benefit of the doubt. Keep in mind that they mean well, you know, bringing democracy around the world, and all. Just wait around, human beings-especially in government, are trying to get it right, and, given enough time, eventually will.

Sarcasm off.

[Padraig18]

31. Bush didn't pull the trigger.

A bunch of rightfully scared kids opened up on the car, not George Bush. I'd like to hear from THEM why they did what they did, as it might be useful to anyone actually seeking the truth, instead of promoting an agenda.

[Minstrel Boy]

36. "a bunch of rightfully scared kids opened up on the car"

Have you read Sgrena's account? According to her, there was no checkpoint; the firing came from an armoured patrol.

Why are you engaging in the speculation you claim to abhor, founded only on the word of the US military?

[Padraig18]

47. Read what I wrote, please.

Did I say it was a checkpoint? No, I did not. Please do not distort what I wrote in order to construct a strawman.

[anarchy1999]

39. I think they've disappeared with the car, you know the guys involved.

Gone, vaporized, nothing to see and or say here, no witnesses. Who took the phones? Who kept them from contacting Rome back for over an hour? I'm just so damned confused.

Can we bring this same scenario home to the US. A car gets shot up on the street with some high profile person. No one involved in the shooting is available for comment and the car that was shot up is "missing"? You're kidding me, right? Would we stand for it, would we believe a single word? Then WTF is going on here?

[FreedomAngel82]

80. You have to remember

that they KNEW she was leaving. Someone told them to do it. Who? Why did they cut off her cell phone and then take it from her and their weapons to protect them? According to the Laura Flanders show there was an Italian correspondent on there and he was saying how when you want to leave Iraq at the Baghdad airport you can't just walk over there and leave. You have to make time arrangements so someone knew she was leaving. I think she was targeted because of her stories and how she was reporting the US military was using illegal weapons that were banned from the UN in 1980. This could be dangerous to BushCo.

[Misunderestimator]

29. Uninformed? How does one get informed? By reading and conversing

and uncovering facts. How does one stay uninformed, by ignoring
everything, or taking things on blind faith. Yep, both sides of
that
are bad.

[Padraig18]

32. "Yep, both sides of that are bad."

Which is all I've ever said.

[Misunderestimator]

34. To be clear... what I meant was that staying uninformed is bad...

... by ignoring everything, or taking things on blind faith. To try
to squelch the valid discovery that is going on here with comments
about how uninformed people are is a little counter-productive. Seems
to me that people have valid suspicions of our government and the
leaders of our military. I'm confused why you criticize people for
following this line of logic, and believing Sgrena over someone we
already know is a liar, Fleischer (or any number of other people who
willingly lie for our government).

[Padraig18]

37. Then let me be clear, as well.

People are attempting to gather information, which I have no problem with--- at all. What I have a problem with is the automatic assumption on the part of a GREAT many here that nothing our government or military says is true, while everything from the mouth of a backseat passenger who very likely wasn't paying any attention to the actual driving of the vehicle, etc., is holy writ.

I am withholding judgment until we have BOTH sides of the story. I will not call Sgrena a liar, nor will I call our soldiers muderers unless and until we have more hard evidence than we now have. I am sincerely open-minded about what happened.

BTW, how do we knw that there were 400 or so bullets fired at the vehicle, since noone seems to know where it is to either verify or disprove that?

:shrug:

[Misunderestimator]

42. In my life, many, many people have lied to me... the more they lie...

the more I don't trust them. Based on everything I have read about
Sgrena and from Sgrena leads me to believe that she would be more
trustworthy than those that have lied us into this war in the first
place. No one should jump to conclusions, but to just jump in here
and toss a wrench in insinuating that everyone is jumping to
conclusions when people are discussing these things, just gunks up the
inner workings.... imo.

Instead of offering something contributive, or just sitting out and
waiting for your answers you say:

"This whole thing is a gigantic clusterfuck, and what I want are
FACTS. I'm sick and tired of the uninformed speculation on BOTH sides!"

Do you really think that we could possibly uncover the FACTS without
some amount of speculation in the process?

[Misunderestimator]

33. wrong spot.... self-delete

[bullimiami]

14. no shit its dangerous, scotty.

there are americans with guns that will kill whoever and whenever they feel like it, without repercussions.

[Coastie for Truth]

15. I am convinced that there was a tragic screw up by the US

I am convinced that - at the very least - there was a tragic tactical intelligence and tactical communications screw up by the US - followed by the predictable and consistent "cover up" by Steve Cambone's organization.

Based on my VietNam era active duty -- and my late Dad's experience as a WW2 Naval Intelligence Officer -- this is the way Steve Cambone's keystone kops intelligence organization operates.

Whether it was

-telling Israel that there were no "intelligence gathering ships" off of the Sinai (when in fact the Liberty was there), or
-not telling the 7th Fleet about the existence or location of the Pueblo (when it was in fact in a running fire fight with the North Koreans), or
-not telling the 7th Fleet about my dad's downed at sea intel gathering PBY - or that it was down at sea - it was only the Grace of God and Serendipity that Dad and his crew were found alive; or
-the hounding to death and political assassination of Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Jeremy Boorda by the Chief of Naval Intelligence

-- this is the way Steve Cambone's boys play.

The coverup is more evil then the deed -- and IMHO gives credibility to the underlying evil deed.

[Cuban_Liberal]

16. I hope that it was just a tragic mistake.

Having been in combat myself, it's easy enough to understand how someone in a highly-insecure area could misinterpret the intentions of her vehicle, and it's also easy enough to see how a failure to communicate info to the roving patrol could also have caused/contributed to what happened.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

18. I'm convinced they meant to kill her before she could get home....

...we're playing with a rough crowd, and they'll do anything to achieve their goals.

[FreedomAngel82]

81. I agree about the cover up

They're trying desperatley. Why aren't they saying a word about an investigation? All they're doing is sending out Scotty to say it's not true. He isn't saying they're doing an investigation on this and will take action. No way. So I think behind the scenes they'll try something. Oh yes. These people are pure evil and will silence anybody who gets in their way.

[Junkdrawer]

19. The more details that come out, the more it looks like murder...

Premeditated murder, pure and simple.

Oh, and a massive cover up of a murder.

And if it wasn't for Sgrena’s cell phone, they very well might have "finished the job" - depending on how many of the troops were in on the murder.

[FreedomAngel82]

83. Don't forget

about the brave soul who saved her as well.

[DARE to HOPE]

21. Fallujah...Fallujah...Fallujah...Fallujah...

crimes worthy of the Hague

[frictionlessO]

23. Plenty of DUers agree with Scotty boy from what Ive seen....

I don't... but we need to be careful not to offend them.

[Junkdrawer]

24. The damage control guys?

Hell, they only emphasize guilt by their arrival on a thread.

[MisterP]

73. *SHRIEK*

that's a blazingly, blisteringly, gut-bustingly funny remark! But also too true.
And all those "skeert kids" are just endangering other troops--including my cousin's husband. The Negroponte death squades aren't helping, either.

[Jacobin]

27. It appears to be premature to make a determination

but since they've 'lost' the vehicle that got shot up, lied that it was approaching a check-point, have a history of blowing up journalists who publish things they don't like, and since they are obviously capable of absolutely anything, and they don't want the Fallujah thingy talked about much, I'm wondering how much credibility the WH has on this thing. I can understand how anyone could expect GROSS INCOMPETENCE on the part of the WH. That I can understand. I can also see how people might tend to believe a journalist who was actually almost killed and what her thoughts on this are.

Either way, if Iraq is so totally and absolutely fucked up that these people couldn't drive to the airport without being blown to smithereens, or if it was an intentional silencing of a dissident reporter, it doesn't bode well for this country.

I would love to see this 'investigation' proceed.......

[DELUSIONAL]

44. tough for them -- if they want to believe lying Scotty boy

tough if they are offend.

The US military ALWAYS lies. And then they will tell more lies to cover their first lies -- until I doubt that in the end they even know what the truth is.

[frictionlessO]

48. ya know what I forgot to do?

Turn my sarcasm switch off.
My bad.

[DELUSIONAL]

62. Yea -- I guessed that --

and it only seems the trolls are defending the shooting of the Italian's car.

Mike Malloy -- is one for Randi Rhodes -- he just dispatched at Freeper who supports Scotty's version of reality.

[Cleita]

25. If this were Geraldo Rivera, I would be inclined to believe Scotty, but

since Scotty lies ninety percent of the time, I don't think I would anyway, even if this was among the ten percent of the time he told the truth.

Since Sgrena is a reputable journalist, even though she's considered the enemy by Scotty because she writes for a liberal left wing publication, doesn't mean she would make up something like this to discredit the USA military.

The White House has been caught red-handed and they are going to have to come up with video-tape or something irrefutable to back Scotty's claims. Calling all legitimate ournalists; don't let down the heat. Force the administration to prove they had nothing to do with this.

There is blood on their hands for Falluja and that's only the tip of the iceberg.

[TyeDye75]

26. Perhaps if this was an isolated incident it would be absurd

But it was also absurd to suggest that Abu Ghraib was anything more than a few bad apples.

It was absurd to suggest that Diebold and the Republicans somehow tampered with the voting, despite the discrepancy with the exit polls.

It was absurd to suggest that Geoff Gannon was directly planted in white house press conferences to field soft ball questions to the president.

Please forgive me if this administration's track record doesn't inspire much confidence.

[Jacobin]

28. Why do you hate america?

Why are you bringing up those things from history? Those events ALL happened in the past, thus they are irrelevent. The only thing you should listen to is your Christian Leader in the White House, appointed by Gawd. All those other people talking are just the devil.


/sarcasm

[TyeDye75]

30. I guess its because Im European

you know us Europeans...always hating America...taking advantage of free health care and engageing in liberal amounts of homosexual activity.

[Jacobin]

40. Treacle Boycott!!! Treacle Boycott!!! Treacle Boycott!!!

:bounce:

[TyeDye75]

41. lol....good one

[frictionlessO]

43. Not just the admin, but their puppets in the media and military as well.

People keep getting upset with DU'ers for not believing a damn thing these people say... "don't blame the troops"!! Who the hell is blaming the troops by asking if it was cold blooded murder? If it was than they are not "our" troops!! If it was an honest to goodness mistake despite the mounting evidence and the chain of coincidences then how on this fucked up and fast becoming hell hole of an Earth do you expect anyone to take any kind of official line seriously?

Media, military, or admin... we all know they have lied and manipulated us repeatedly, quit blaming your fellow DU'ers for bushcos mistakes and crimes of the mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stupid, asinine, and every bit as un-thoughtful as those that blame the actual soldiers who acted on given orders!!!!!!

Sorry TyeDye, I had to rant like that because I agree 100% with you.

[TyeDye75]

60. No apology necessary

You backed up my point very eloquently....

[LisaL]

35. The guy should have added-it's absurd-we don't target

innocent civilians-we just shoot at anything that moves. See, how absurd it is?

[SmokingJacket]

38. Journalists have been targeted from the beginning...

Who remembers that hotel that was fired on, the floor where journalists were staying was hit, right after "Shock and Awe"? Journalists died; it was called an "accident". There have been many incidents. Al Jazeera has been specifically targeted too. Eason Jordan spoke the truth.

That's what the whole embedding thing is about -- a way to control journalists. You're either in bed with us, or we want you out of the area... and you're a target.

[Jacobin]

46. Actually that 'accidentally' happened twice during

ShockN'Awe(tm).

All of these things have been accidents, so stop saying they are not. Rumsfeld said so.

[DoYouEverWonder]

50. It also happened outside of Abu Ghraib

when they shot down Reuters cameraman Dana Mazen. They didn't want people finding out what was really happening there. Just like they don't want people to know about what they did in Fallujah. Genocide is not a pretty sight.

[Jacobin]

53. YOu forgot to say 'accidentally'

Besides which fact, ALL of the incidents, each and every one of them, happened in the past, and are therefore merely 'historical' and accordingly are irrelevant and not germane to the current accident and cannot be used to infer anything different in the present circumstance. This was merely an unfortunate incident.

Yours pathologically,

Condi

[DoYouEverWonder]

61. I noticed Condi didn't go to that State Funeral

in Italy today for that high level Italian Agent that we killed.

[Jacobin]

66. Maybe they didn't invite her.....

there's a thought

[DoYouEverWonder]

71. Could you blame them?

It's a good thing Italy is a 'coalition partner'. In the old days this would have been grounds for war.

[Hindenburg]

55. Perhaps but...

I'm inclined to believe that if the US wanted some reporter dead, they would not have shot at her, let her survive, then put her on a plane home with an apology. Any why would they want her dead? WHY? The PR from this incident is MUCH worse than anything she could have written before it happened.

As always, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle that most on the far left and right REFUSE to see.

From her own account, her car was going so fast that they almost lost control. "Losing control of the car in a street full of water in Baghdad and maybe wind up in a bad car accident after all I had been through would really be a tale I would not be able to tell." And according to Itallian news sources, American soldiers were kept in the dark about her release and impending avival at the airport. "ROME -- Italian agents likely withheld information from U.S. counterparts about a cash-for-freedom deal with gunmen holding an Italian hostage for fear that Americans might block the trade, Italian news reports said yesterday."

It is reasonable to call US soldiers firing upon a car speeding towards a checkpoint with no warning whatsoever an assasination attempt? In truth they probably had no idea who was in that car or what their intentions were... and THAT is the problem.

The real lesson from this is that the US needs to revise and improve their "checkpoint" proceedures, and that the Italians should stand up to the US and TELL them that they have brokered a deal for one of its citizens. The notion of not telling someone important information for fear that they will say "no" reminds me of my relationship with my parents when I was 15.

[Jacobin]

56. Actually, the accounts I've read from her are different

She said they were going 40 to 50 kilometers per hour, which is about 30 mph. She also said they were past the checkpoints, near the airport and that the soldiers opened fire on them without warning. After the shooting stopped, the confiscated their weapons and phones and held them for an hour before taking her to an airport.

The guy who died was on the phone with the PM of Italy at the time the shooting started.

Rumsfeld gleefully apologized for killing several alJazeera reporters during ShockN'Awe(tm), in two separate bombing raids on different days with 'precision' bombs.

Something is not right here. Something stinks to high heaven. The main problem is I simply do not believe a single word that comes out of the white house. They are utterly mendacious.

And, its quite convenient that the military has now 'lost' the car that they shot up.

[FreedomAngel82]

85. I also remember

reading how someone warned her before she left she would be targeted and they didn't like her and want her to leave.

[newyawker99]

67. Hi Hindenburg!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[FreedomAngel82]

84. And also if

they can't "target" the journalist they find some way to make them discrediable. A lot of republicans wouldn't believe Al Jazeera for nothin. The same way that CBS is "biased" and CNN is "liberal" and all the other networks but faux news is fair and balanced. :eyes:

[spanone]

45. Turns out she was safer with the 'insurgents'.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. Just another one of those "unfortunate incidents".

There's been a lot of those going around over the last couple of years.
Wait for the de-rigeur "investigation" and "apology" by our trusty military.

Unfortunately, the "unfortunate incidents" involving Iraqi civilians don't get investigated. The "untermenschen" needn't be bothered with.

[Jacobin]

54. Yes. It's like the flu, only quicker

Unfortunate incidents.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

57. The side effects of the "preventative" shot are a bit dicey.

"Massive trauma to body parts may result from proper use of preventative measures, frequently causing death. Unarmed civilians are especially prone to such unfortunate incidents."

[Jacobin]

58. Yes. They recommend drinking milk and ducking while

the treatment is being administered.

Problem is, ya never know when its coming

[jdots]

52. little Scotty is the social director on the Titantic

" never mind that ice berg,who wants to play shuffle board ? "

[BurtWorm]

63. You just don't say bad things about the US military. Ever.

Unless you're talking about the few bad apples who complain about lack of armor or extended service or who take seriously suggestions from their superiors about making Iraqi prisoners "loosen up" for interrogations.

[FreedomAngel82]

86. Exactly

Remember the guy from Chattanooga (my home ;) ) who questioned Rumsfeld about armor? After that it was all over the news and they blamed the "reporter" from the Times/Free press? :eyes: Like the solider couldn't think for himself or whatever. On Bernie Ward tonight he was talking about soliders who have questioned about safety armor were punished. :scared:

[KaliTracy]

64. what is "absurd" is expecting us to believe that a car could just be

"misplaced" instead of impounded for investigation and/or available for people/press to look at.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20050306/ap_on_re_eu/italy_iraq_hostage_reconstruction

"When The Associated Press in Baghdad asked the U.S. military to see the vehicle on Saturday, the military said it didn't know where it was."

[tinonedown]

65. What is the reward?

This goverment regime is not to be trusted, but there is no oil reward, election reward, cash reward, etc. for the *bUSH regime here. Assuming they did - to what end?

[KaliTracy]

75. silencing those who question the * Administration policies.

see her articles here... http://www.ilmanifesto.it/pag/sgrena/en/


Florence and the others
GIULIANA SGRENA
il manifesto 14 January 2005

Ten thousand Iraqis in US and British prisons
GIULIANA SGRENA
il manifesto 29 December 2004

Two thousand victims in Fallujah
Giuliana Sgrena, Iraq
il manifesto 26 November 2004

Napalm Raid on Falluja?
GIULIANA SGRENA
il manifesto 23 November 2004

The death throes of Fallujah
Giuliana Sgrena
ilmanifesto 13 November 2004

“Stop the massacre”
GIULIANA SGRENA
il manifesto 12 November 2004

Bombs and tanks, hell breaks in Falluja
GIULIANA SGRENA
il manifesto 09 November 2004

Interview with an Iraki woman tortured at Abu Graib.
Giuliana Sgrena, our correspondent in Baghdad
il manifesto 01 July 2004

“Imminent attack” against Falluja
GIULIANA SGRENA
il manifesto 06 November 2004

Flight from a Falluja massacred by bombs
GIULIANA SGRENA
il manifestp 21 October 2004

UN: US crimes in Iraq
GIULIANA SGRENA
il manifesto 05 June 2004

[flordehinojos]

68. i just posted in another thread (not having first seen this one) that Lou

Dobbs said tonight that those are "idiotic charges made by a communist newspaper"... and as I said in the thread I posted, I am still trying to catch my breath ... McClellan's statement knocks the air right out of me, again!!!!!!!!!!

[tecumseh]

69. what if calipari was the target?

i don't think the pieces fit all that well if sgrena was the target. mostly her own comments --she said that the americans had targeted her because they don't like ransoms. that's an odd thought for her to have. wouldn't americans really be more likely to kill her because of her writings on abu ghraib, or falluja?

on the other hand, if the US really hated ransom all that much, they should have it in for calipari --this is, if i am right about this, his third or fourth ransom of an italian in iraq. but what i think might be more dangerous, he knew how to contact the kidnappers. he may have known more about the kidnappers than US agents considered good.

it seems unlikely that 400 bullets riddled the car. sgrena herself was not shot, but wounded by shrapnel. same with the driver? why shouldn't calipari have been the target? if so, the perpetrators could expect much less fallout than if they had killed a celebrity journalist.

[DoYouEverWonder]

72. You have a point

if nothing else, they might have been going for a double header?

[flordehinojos]

76. interesting thought ..and importantly whoever they intended those bullets

for--those bullets were intentional and aimed to kill...no freak accident, or "idiotic statement by a communist paper" like lou dobbs is selling it to be.

[Booster]

70. Oh, yeah, like the Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillson stories put out

by the Pentagon weren't absurd. Give me a break.

[FreedomAngel82]

77. Oh yeah

like I'm going to belive dear old Scotty who didn't know anything about Jeff Gannon even though he was called on for two years and knew about secret things. :eyes:

[NightOwwl]

82. And he had to say it twice.

“That’s just absurd,” McClellan repeated.

Just in case the targeted audience had some doubts the first time around.

Sure Scotty, you just keep repeating it over and over...maybe eventually you'll start believing your own line of bullshit.