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southernleftylady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:11 PM
Original message
I tried to be reasonable about why i don't believe our "media" and said th
I don't believe the media is either liberal or conservative but big corporation....
and i got asked my this repug
"why don't you like big corporations"
i need a snazzy response that i know ya ll can help me with ;)
tia
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ask Them
Who Owns The News?

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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Son just got a degree in Business Communications. He says that
the media is neither liberal or conservative, it is upward bias, toward the large corporations. They pay for the media time.

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southernleftylady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. and the repug asked me what i have against big corporations involved in ..
the news
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. wacko jacko should shut him up
and if that don't tell him/her 'PROPAGANDA' they MANUFACTURE CONSENT.

peace
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Ask the person what he thinks about Ken Lay's honesty. n/t
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. hey lefty, those corporations are only interested in profits
not our freedoms or democracy

they don't want any coverage of their polluting ways or how they out source American jobs for higher profits.

they don't want an informed populace who might insist they clean up toxic chemicals or pay health care for their employees since that also would effect their profits

profiteering is not a bedrock of a free and democratic society, profiteering is a means of making excessive dollars by manipulating the markets, and the media is one more market they can manipulate
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Only what I said. That all news is bias toward the top. Bias news
is not news. It is propaganda.
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. Because. . .
democracy is based on the fundamental premise of being "of the people, by the people, and for the people."

Corporatism is entirely about profit for the few, and at the expense of the many.

Note the distinction.
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southernleftylady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I like that :) nt
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. glad someone does. . .
kidding.

That was just as succinctly as I could put it in that moment.

I thought about going into the research of when it was (I think) in the 1800's when corporations were granted by the Supreme's the rites of the individuals. But alas, I'm tired.

That was when the stage was set for the demise of democracy. Since then we've have an oligarchy that has now most sadly trangressed into a "kakistocracy-government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens."

When I 'm less tired, I'll consider writing a thread called "a requiem on democracy-american style.."

Certainly can't do it tonight though.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. How corporations became persons
Edited on Sun Mar-06-05 10:45 PM by JohnyCanuck
Lincoln's suspicions were prescient. In the 1886 Santa Clara County vs. Southern Pacific Railroad case, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the state tax assessor, not the county assessor, had the right to determine the taxable value of fenceposts along the railroad's right-of-way.

However, in writing up the case's headnote -- a commentary that has no precedential status -- the Court's reporter, a former railroad president named J.C. Bancroft Davis, opened the headnote with the sentence: "The defendant Corporations are persons within the intent of the clause in section 1 of the Fourteen Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which forbids a State to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Oddly, the court had ruled no such thing. As a handwritten note from Chief Justice Waite to reporter Davis that now is held in the National Archives said: "we avoided meeting the Constitutional question in the decision." And nowhere in the decision itself does the Court say corporations are persons. (emphasis mine /jc)

Nonetheless, corporate attorneys picked up the language of Davis's headnote and began to quote it like a mantra. Soon the Supreme Court itself, in a stunning display of either laziness (not reading the actual case) or deception (rewriting the Constitution without issuing an opinion or having open debate on the issue), was quoting Davis's headnote in subsequent cases. While Davis's Santa Clara headnote didn't have the force of law, once the Court quoted it as the basis for later decisions its new doctrine of corporate personhood became the law.


http://www.ratical.org/corporations/humanVcorp.html
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. Not a matter of like or dislike
It's just that every corporation intends to make money by selling a product or service. Therefore, it is antithetical to the ideal of "objective" journalism to have corporations controlling the news media. Ask your friends if they think that NBC or MSNBC will be likely to report honestly about issues with G.E. when they are owned by them. They might, but chances are they won't. Corporations aren't inherently good or bad; they are just interested in self-preservation and their bottom line. I don't know what the answer is, whether the news media should be run by the government, private companies, or some other entity entirely. I just tell everyone I know to go to as many sources as possible, internet, print, radio, whatever for their info and not rely on one source.
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. How about "Why don't they like me?"

Why are they always lobbying to curtail my legal rights, pollute my environment, offshore my job, and suppress me economically?

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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
12. Just say that you love corporations and that you buy products from
them every day and that they are a wonderfully efficient tool of getting things to market. They used to be good at supplying Americans with jobs and that was great. Now - not so great. And they began to represent their elites only... for the first time since Roosevelt...by treating their workers, the American government and its regulations, and academic institutions like competators that needed to be conquered.

Say that you are just concerned that the original plans do not get lost as corporations increasingly represent elites. That trying to make your government smaller is not the corporations choice (though it may make it easier for them to get around regulations). Say that making government smaller is your choice as a voter.

Say that you are really concerned that wage competition and made corporations loose one bit of footing - the contract between them and their workers is gone. You worry that if they only represent elites that there will be another bloody series of revolutions the world over in the years to come. And you had hoped that those days were over by virtue of your citizenship and voting rights in the United States of America.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. A possible snappy response
Shorten or edit this list as needed:

Michael Jackson
Martha Stewart
Brad & Jen
Ben & J-Lo
Kirstie Alley gaining weight
Scott & Laci Peterson
Robert Blake
Janet Jackson's left breast
The amazing ratings success of "Desperate Housewives"
The "War On Christmas"
Shark Attacks
Celebrity liposuction
Celebrity diets
Celebrity weddings
Celebrity divorces
Celebrity drug habits
Celebrity rehab stories
Academy Awards gossip
Top weekend box-office grosses
Martha Stewart (she's STILL out of jail!)

And ask your Republican friend one simple question: what do any - ANY - of these titillating piles of journalistic dung have to do with my life - or yours - in ANY WAY AT ALL??
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. Here's a few quotes and links that might help you out
Edited on Sun Mar-06-05 10:31 PM by JohnyCanuck
This is an extract from the article Big Media Myths by Norman Solomon, published originally at www.projectcensored.org

MYTH: FREE PRESS = PRIVATELY-OWNED PRESS

Equating freedom of the media with private ownership of the media is a convenient myth for the likes of Time Warner, Disney, and General Electric. In the real world, however, the freedom of expression that flourishes in mass media is confined to messages that are acceptable to such corporations.

Although dissenting voices are heard once in a while, the essence of propaganda is repetition-and what's repeated does not rock the big corporate boats. The favorite perspectives of economic elites are commonly mistaken for journalism. The narrative is usually narrow; for example, we hear much more about the concerns of investors and shareholders than workers or consumers. Mass-media employees seem to rise to the level of their utility to corporate America.

Bankrolled by major corporations, mainstream media have done a lot to render "big government" one of the leading pejoratives of American political rhetoric. In contrast, the private sector largely eludes media scrutiny; we rarely hear warnings about "big business." Not coincidentally, the Pentagon's huge sacrosanct budget is a cash cow for some companies that own large media outlets, such as General Electric (NBC) and Westinghouse (CBS). Many more firms are hefty advertisers-as well as contributors to the campaigns of politicians selectively lambasting "big government."

As corporations increase their power, they meld with the journalistic air and blend into the media atmosphere-so that a defacto corporate state appears to supply us with the oxygen we breathe. Under such circumstances, accepting corporate power seems natural and neutral; opposing it seems "ideological."

The corporatization of media is part of broader developments in public and private life. We're invited to choose from choices made for us by wealthy and powerful elites. Democracy has very little to do with the process.


www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Project%20Censored/BigMediaMyths_ProjCensor.html

It might be worthwile to pick up a copy of the book Into The Buzzsaw if you have a chance.


Between them, the authors of the incendiary new book "Into the Buzzsaw," out this month from Prometheus, have won nearly every award journalism has to give -- a Pulitzer, several Emmys, a Peabody, a prize from Investigative Reporters and Editor, an Edward R. Murrorw and several accolades from the Society of Professional Journalists. One is veteran of the Drug Enforcement Administration and a best-selling author, another is a Nieman Fellow at Harvard.

And most of them are considered, at best, marginal by the mainstream media. At worst, they've been deemed incompetent and crazy for having the audacity to uncover evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors committed by government agencies and corporate octopi.

<snip>

Borjesson describes "the buzzsaw" as "what can rip through you when you try to investigate or expose anything this country's large institutions -- be they corporate or government -- want to keep under wraps. The system fights back with official lies, disinformation, and stonewalling.

<snip>

The majority of the eighteen pieces in Borjesson's book are about hard-working mainstream journalists, dedicated to the ideals of their profession, who stumble into the buzzsaw and have their careers and reputations eviscerated. Though the subjects and personalities involved are wildly diverse, the stories echo each other in disturbing ways. Journalists are sent by their bosses to do their jobs -- in the case of Borjesson, to investigate the crash of TWA Fight 800 as a producer for CBS news. Sometimes what they find is impolitic, other times it brings threats of corporate lawsuits. Suddenly, editors kill the story, or demand changes. In some instances, like that of TV reporter Jane Akre, who was investigating the use of Monsanto's Bovine Growth Hormone, reporters are ordered to insert outright lies in their pieces or face firing.(my emphasis /jc) Other times, like with Gerard Colby's book about the Du Pont family and Gary Webb's San Jose Mercury News series about the CIA's role in the crack epidemic, the bosses are spooked after the fact and withdraw their support from work already published, hanging reporters out to dry.


http://www.freedomofthepress.net/intothebuzzsaw.htm

Here's an excerpt from an interview with Into the Buzzsaw's editor at BuzzFlash:

BuzzFlash: In journalism, how is going into the buzzsaw different from just "spiking" a story?

Kristina Borjesson: They are two different terms. "Spiking" a story means to kill it, to not run or air it. "Into the buzzsaw" is an expression that applies to both journalists and sensitive stories. With respect to journalists, it describes a series of traumatic and destructive experiences that those who have reported, or are reporting on sensitive stories can go through: the loss of one's job or career, long legal entanglements, financial ruin, being widely and falsely discredited in public, being attacked by one's colleagues, death threats, etc. With respect to sensitive stories, the buzzsaw is a sophisticated system consisting of myriad elements, including self-censoring journalists, reporters who pander to powerful people and institutions, major media conglomerates with specific business and political agendas, propaganda machines both inside and outside of government, etc., which ensure that the American public remains virtually ignorant about how this nation’s--and the world's--arenas of power really function. The buzzsaw system ensures that stories lifting the veil on what powerful institutions and people really do, and how their activities affect the nation and its citizens, never hit the mass public consciousness.

BuzzFlash: Why do you think there is such gullible acceptance of government explanations and policies among the mainstream press? As you point out in your essay within the book, many of the government's explanations of dramatic events amount to conspiracy theories themselves. Just look at the Bush propaganda campaign before the invasion of Iraq and how Saddam Hussein was allegedly associated with everything from Al Qaeda to 9/11 to WMD that were supposed to be on the verge of being launched against us. But the mainstream media didn't question THAT conspiracy theory, did they?

Kristina Borjesson: The press' acceptance of the government's explanations had nothing to do with the mainstream press being gullible. Post 9/11, news executives got the message from the American public that it was time to rally around the president and that asking tough questions about 9/11 or the decision to go into Iraq would not play well and would result in lower ratings. Lower ratings mean lost revenue. It's nothing personal; it's just business. Most journalists will tell you that a reporter's job is to tell people what they need to know, not what they want to hear, or what the government wants them to hear. In the news business, however, upsetting the government or the public makes no sense for the bottom line and should be avoided. Don't expect to be well informed if you rely on mainstream media alone. As some of the stories in Buzzsaw clearly illustrate, mainstream media's limitations are extensive. There's no point in getting upset at the mainstream media. It's better to just move on to better news sources--and there are lots of them.

http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/05/01/int05002.html


Into the Buzzsaw covers the story of Jane Akre and her husband Steve, two reporters who were fired for refusing an order to lie in a documentary they were preparing on Monsanto's Bovine Growth Hormone. The judgement went against the reporters because the judge basically said that the media is under no legal obligation to report the truth therefore the Akres didn't have any legal grounds to contest their employer's orders. More details here:

The reporters also provided details of their suit which charges Fox television, strongly pressured by BGH-maker Monsanto, with violating the state’s whistleblower act by firing the journalists for refusing to broadcast false reports and threatening to report the station’s conduct to the FCC. Their complaint also claims the station violated the reporters’ contracts in dismissing them for those reasons and it seeks a ruling from the court to determine to what extent the reporters’ contractual obligations limit their ability to speak freely about the rBGH issue.

The journalists filed the suit after struggling with Fox executives most of last year to get the story on the air. According to court papers, they were ultimately dismissed December 2, 1997.

"Every editor has the right to kill a story and any honest reporter will tell you that happens from time to time when a news organization’s self interest wins out over the public interest," said Steve Wilson, the station’s former senior investigative reporter who helped Akre produce the story and is now one of the plaintiffs.

"But when media managers who are not journalists have so little regard for the public trust that they actually order reporters to broadcast false information and slant the truth to curry the favor or avoid the wrath of special interests as happened here, that is the day any responsible reporter has to stand up and say, ‘No way!’ That is what Jane and I are saying with this lawsuit," Wilson said.


http://www.foxbghsuit.com/
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