Pentagon gun will inflict pain from mile away

[norml]

Pentagon gun will inflict pain from mile away
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
05 March 2005


The Pentagon is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop a new "energy pulse" weapon that can deliver a jolt of excruciating pain from more than a mile away. Researchers have expressed outrage that work used to control pain is now being used to develop such a weapon.

The weapons involve Pulsed Energy Projectiles (PEPs), which fire a laser pulse that in turn generates a burst of expanding plasma when it hits something solid. It can cause temporary paralysis and knock a person off their feet. But documents uncovered by the Sunshine Project, a biotechnology watchdog, also reveal that the same technology could be used to kill a person.

One document, a contract between the Office of Naval Research and the University of Florida in Gainesville, where the research is being carried out, is headlined "Sensory consequences of electromagnetic pulses emitted by laser-induced plasmas". It says: "At their current stage of development, each system has lethal and non-lethal capacities ... Our research will examine the feasibility of PEP as a new generation non-lethal weapon."

A 2003 review of non-lethal weapons by the US Naval Studies Board, which advises the Navy and Marine Corps, said PEPs produced "pain and temporary paralysis" in tests on animals. The $500,000 (£260,000) study looks to optimise this effect and discover how to generate a pulse which triggers pain nerves without damaging tissue. The contract adds: "Pain is a primary component of all non-lethal weapons."

snip http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?...

[FlemingsGhost]

1. Who knows something about "laser-induced plasmas?"

Can a mirror be used to redirect?

[w13rd0]

8. The projectile itself is "laser-induced"...

...it is itself not comprised of light, but compressed plasma fired at high-velocity. Though watching someone try and deflect it with a mirror would be funny as hell to watch.

[FlemingsGhost]

11. What can impede plasmatic energy, then?

[w13rd0]

12. I'm fairly sure...

...lead shielding, likely some forms of ceramic armor.

[FlemingsGhost]

13. Hmmm ... go to a slaughterhouse, and get a bovine "meat shield"?

Just wanted to give you a funnier mental image than just a dude with a mirror.

[norml]

15. A Faraday Cage impedes RF energy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

[FlemingsGhost]

16. Thanks, norml.

Cheers

[ProfessorGAC]

50. However, . . .

. . .in the realm of analytical chemistry faraday shields have been used for amperometry, voltametry, polarography, titrimetry, etc. with very little actual success.

In theory it should work, but i don't know anyone in that field that has ever actually gotten it to be effective.

So, i'd be careful about concluding this could be used as a shield against this proposed weapon.
The Professor

[norml]

18. Concerning "laser induced plasmas"...

I was aware of laser induced plasmas in fusion research, that is using a laser to trigger fusion, creating a hot as the Sun plasma. I suppose magnetic bottles can contain plasmas. I'll need to do more research on laser induced plasmas, and their pulsed microwave generating capabilities. I suppose it could be that the creation of laser induced plasmas create electromagnetic pulses, just as though they were mini nuclear explosions.

[FlemingsGhost]

28. Would the presence of a powerful magnet distrupt PEPs?

You seem to be the one to ask ...

[Moderate Dem]

2. Well, I'd rather "feel pain" than feel a bullet...

Is this one of those threads where everything the military does is evil?

[FlemingsGhost]

3. Nah ... this is the thread where moderates amuse us.

Thanks.

[Moderate Dem]

4. ...and now, the call of the red-crested Robin...

[w13rd0]

6. No, but you'll get jumped on, and rightly so...

...for saying "is this one of those threads..."

Though I support research in non-leathal weapons, as we are today discovering with the taser, it produces certain sociological responses and has unintended consequences. Namely:

1) greater willingness to use the weapon in situations where it's use is less than appropriate (seniors, unruly pre-teens, for the hell of it, crowd control)

2) it's NOT "non-leathal", it is LESS leathal. That's a VERY important distinction. Glossing over it invites tragic errors.

3) the "false promise". It's something seen with "bullet-RESISTANT" armoring as well. If a criminal sees someone armed with a "less-leathal" weapon rather than a leathal weapon, does that decrease their willingess to pursue drastic courses of action to evade capture? After all, "the worse that can happen" is they will be shocked, not that they will die.

These are questions that deserve answers, without their asking being dismissed with immature calls that to do so is to say "everything the military does is evil".

But that's ok, we've seen a lot of that kind of nonsense. Especially since Abu Ghraib and Gitmo. I really wish some of you people would quit with the straw men.

[norml]

9. This is an investigation of directed energy weapons technology thread.

Specifically those using "pulsed microwave technology". It interests me. As to whether weapons used to inflict pain, kill, or exercise mind control are inherently evil, I'll leave that up to you. Personally I think they are quite gruesome, and would probably go over well on Fwee Wepubwic. Still, you got to have weapons, and I suppose their true potential for evil lies in when, and how they are used.

[w13rd0]

10. Thank you, I agree...

...although there are some weapons that are just pretty damn evil, despite whatever "practical benefits" they may have. Hey, but I imagine some of these weapon projects would shock the hell out of the aliens when they invade

[The Magistrate]

26. One Point, Sir

It does seem like a very small amount of money by Pentagon weapons development standards. This suggests its promotors are pretty far from being able to persuade anyone they have something that can be useful in the field and constructed economically.

"In war, only what is simple can succeed."

[norml]

29. This is just one of a number of microwave weapons being developed.

The budget for all microwave weapons systems is much larger, than the budget for this one application. The research on microwave weapons, specifically those using pulsed microwave technology, has been going on since the development of radar, so you should consider some of the money that's been spent on it over the past 65 years.

[The Magistrate]

37. Understood, Sir

And there will probably be functioning beam weapons at some point in the future; it may well put infantry out of business.

But this particular wrinkle does not seem very well funded.

[Cuban_Liberal]

34. "...their true potential for evil lies in when, and how they are used...."

There you have it--- exactly so.

[SmokingJacket]

48. DUH: Of course it's better not to kill people!

No one's arguing that.

The concern is that this will be used in situations where NOTHING is used now, not instead of lethal weapons.

If the military was getting rid of their guns and bombs and replacing them with non-lethal weapons, I'd be all over that.

But I haven't heard the military offering that one up.

[leesa]

51. Well, that's good because this will probably be used for crowd control

against us.

[SariesNightly]

5. What's next?

Micro nukes? Oh, I forgot the military was already big on depleted uranium eons ago.

[Speck Tater]

7. Look for a big change in the fashion world

as reflective metalized mylar beomes the fabric of choice for shirts, pants and coats.

[norml]

14. Maximum pain is aim of new US weapon

Maximum pain is aim of new US weapon
19:00 02 March 2005
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7077

David Hambling

The US military is funding development of a weapon that delivers a bout of excruciating pain from up to 2 kilometres away. Intended for use against rioters, it is meant to leave victims unharmed. But pain researchers are furious that work aimed at controlling pain has been used to develop a weapon. And they fear that the technology will be used for torture.

"I am deeply concerned about the ethical aspects of this research," says Andrew Rice, a consultant in pain medicine at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital in London, UK. "Even if the use of temporary severe pain can be justified as a restraining measure, which I do not believe it can, the long-term physical and psychological effects are unknown."

The research came to light in documents unearthed by the Sunshine Project, an organisation based in Texas and in Hamburg, Germany, that exposes biological weapons research. The papers were released under the US's Freedom of Information Act.

One document, a research contract between the Office of Naval Research and the University of Florida in Gainesville, US, is entitled "Sensory consequences of electromagnetic pulses emitted by laser induced plasmas".

snip http://www.pej.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=New...

[EVDebs]

17. Is that a one-mile radius or a targetted pinpoint ? Inotherwords,

how accurate is this damn thing ? Collateral damage ?

[Silverhair]

19. Pretty accurate.

Focused microwave type beam. To make it a one-mile radius would mean having to use hundreds of times the amount of energy, and would not be possible. You would not be able to generate that kind of energy in the field.

Collateral damage. The beam at one mile might have a width of, say 100 meters, (I am making an educated guess there.) so if you have 80 yards of rioters with ten yards of bystanders on each side, and you hit the rioters dead center, you will hit 20 yards of bystanders. However, if the released info is correct, nobody will be injured, although everybody will feel pain.

Better than lots of other methods of riot control.

There would be other military uses as well. If a convoy were approaching a tree line and wanted to be sure they were not heading into an ambush, they could sweep the treeline with it and see what yells. If you are dug in on a defensive line, it is night, and you think the enemy may be sneaking up on you a sweep with the beam will find out if someone is out front.

[norml]

20. Vehicle-Mounted Active Denial System (V-MADS)

Vehicle-Mounted Active Denial System (V-MADS)
Non-Lethal Weapons



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Active Denial Technology is a breakthrough non-lethal technology that uses millimeter-wave electromagnetic energy to stop, deter and turn back an advancing adversary from relatively long range. It is expected to save countless lives by providing a way to stop individuals without causing injury, before a deadly confrontation develops.

The technology was developed by the Air Force Research Laboratory and the Department of Defense's Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate. Approximately $40 million has been spent on this technology over the past ten years.

This non-lethal technology was developed in response to Department of Defense needs for field commanders to have options short of the use of deadly force. Non-lethal technologies can be used for protection of Defense resources, peacekeeping, humanitarian missions and other situations in which the use of lethal force is undesirable. The system is intended to protect military personnel against small-arms fire, which is generally taken to mean a range of 1,000 meters. The system is described as having a range of 700 yards.

Countermeasures against the weapon could be quite straightforward — for example covering up the body with thick clothes or carrying a metallic sheet — or even a trash can lid — as a shield or reflector. Also unclear is how the active-denial technology would work in rainy, foggy or sea-spray conditions where the beam's energy could be absorbed by water in the atmosphere.

snip http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/v...

[norml]

23. Of course this system doesn't inflict pain in the same way, it burns.

Still painful, but not in the same way. Popcorn anyone?

[norml]

47. Here's a link to another thread on this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[ConsAreLiars]

21. Bornagain sadists rule by "pain compliance." Nothing new here.

It's their nature.

None of that "winning hearts and minds" crap for them.

[norml]

22. Could be more painful than any previously known pain inflicting device.

Because it directly stimulates the nervous system.

[neweurope]

24. I've read the pain is so bad it knocks people off their feet.

--------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[ConsAreLiars]

25. Yes, more sadistic in their evil than any who preceded them.

Otherwise, the same as Torquemada.

[LynnTheDem]

27. What happens to all the people driving vehicles on busy streets when

they're "knocked off their feet" during rush-hour by being hit with maximum unbearable pain just because they are within that radius; is it murder when they all crash and die?

Will the US government offer tips on how to deal with and explain to children who are caught within the radius, for example playing on the swings in the playground, when they are suddenly hit with extreme maximum pain out of nowhere? Will they offer suggestions as to how we convince our traumatized and terrorized kids they can safely go outdoors again? Will the US govt pay for the years of counseling for kids traumatized, terrorized, and neurotic, living in fear 24/7 that the pain may suddenly hit them again?

Will pregnant mothers who are within the radius experience such maximum pain that they spontaneously abort be charged with murder as "late-term abortion"?

How about the ill, the elderly, the handi-capped and the infirm; when they are "knocked off their feet" by the maximum pain and fall and break open their heads; will the US govt pay for all funeral arrangements, or if they survive, for all medical and future care treatments?

What happens to those who happen to be walking next to busy streets and are "knocked off their feet" into traffic and run over?

How about high-rise window washers and construction workers? Or crane operators who may happen to be lifting tons-heavy objects when they're hit with this maximum pain & lose control of their cranes; will the US govt pay for all persons & property killed/damaged by being crushed?

And this of course is assuming the WMT operator has a very accurate watch, knows EXACTLY the number of seconds before the "maximum pain" becomes death, and isn't overly curious and/or a psychopath who wants to see what happens if the gun goes on for just another few seconds longer...

[Cuban_Liberal]

30. And this is bad because..........?

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cuban_Liberal]

32. FYI, I care about people very much.

This is a combat weapon, and the scenarios you outline are unlikely, at best; this is a non-lethal weapon, and it sure seems more 'caring' to me to incapacitate someone, rather than KILL them.

[LynnTheDem]

38. No it isn't a "combat weapon". The US govt calls it a RIOT CONTROL

weapon.

[Cuban_Liberal]

39. So is a GUN, FYI, or *any weapon*.

Jesus!

[LynnTheDem]

40. "Jesus!" is right!

These waves are INDISCRIMINATE.

WTF do you not understand about this???

A gun, unless it's a sprayed over a crowd, IS NOT. It's a PRECISION weapon.

These waves have a 2 bloody km radius. EVERYONE within that radius gets hit.

[Cuban_Liberal]

43. Aparently I understand more about it than you do.

It has a radius of up to 2 km. That says to me that it can be 'tuned' to have a radius of LESS THAN 2 km., or do you have evidence that that is not the case?

[norml]

46. I would make peace between the Hawk and the Dove.

Both have validity in their time and place. You both have valid things to say. Since this is a directed energy weapon, I assume that it's energy can be directed to some degree, though only to some degree. It wouldn't be intended to radiate out uniformly over a radius, though such pulsed microwave technology can be easily made to do so. Here's some writing concerning weapons.

31. Armies
Armies are tools of violence;
They cause men to hate and fear.
The sage will not join them.
His purpose is creation;
Their purpose is destruction.

Weapons are tools of violence,
Not of the sage;
He uses them only when there is no choice,
And then calmly, and with tact,
For he finds no beauty in them.

Whoever finds beauty in weapons
Delights in the slaughter of men;
And who delights in slaughter
Cannot content himself with peace.

So slaughters must be mourned
And conquest celebrated with a funeral.

http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/taoism/ttcmerel....

[norml]

35. No worries. Directed energy weapons can also stop traffic.

Directed Energy Weapons
June 28 - 29, 2005 · Venue to be confirmed, Washington, DC


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Workshops

Please click on Workshop titles to learn more


Workshop A: High-Power Electromagnetic Radiators and Intentional Electromagnetic Interference - Pro-Tech

Workshop B: Electromagnetic Interference Systems And Their Applications - Eureka Aerospace


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pre-Conference Workshops: Monday, June 27, 2005

8:00-11:00 A.M · Workshop A: High-Power Electromagnetic Radiators and Intentional Electromagnetic Interference - Pro-Tech

Diverse activities of civilized societies such as civil defense, air traffic safety and control, police, ambulance, communication and internet commerce are becoming increasingly dependent on advancements in computer and electronic systems. While this dependence results in enhanced quality of service, it comes at the price of increased vulnerability to a wide variety of threats to the society's infrastructure. One of the ways of classifying potential intentional electromagnetic environments (IEME) is based on frequency of coverage of the threat environment. In this presentation, we will outline this classification, which is also consistent with current and emerging technologies in HPEM generation. Many examples of HPEM generators (from wall socket to radiated waves) will be presented showing their capabilities, along with some illustrative applications in military and civilian sectors.

snip
http://www.iqpc.com/cgi-bin/templates/document.html?doc...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[norml]

33. See post number nine.

It's the Twenty First Century. It's time to learn your ray guns. Good ray guns? Bad ray guns? I'll leave that up to you.

[LynnTheDem]

36. Killing me softly

According to the Marine Times, the VMADS -- called the "people zapper" -- may be capable of inflicting far more than brief discomfort when not used as directed; that is, for no more than three seconds.

"The amount of time the weapon must be trained on an individual to cause permanent damage or death is classified." (In other words, it only takes one 18-year-old recruit with a sick curiosity or a slow watch to turn the thing deadly.)

In 1995, in fact, a military spokesman qualified the concept of "non-lethal" weapons: "It's really less lethal ... because these weapons if improperly used could be lethal."

Marine Col George Fenton, likewise, is on record in the May 2000 National Defense Magazine saying the term "non-lethal ... does not mean that they can't kill or injure."

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2001/03/n...

Although high-powered microwave weapons are designed to destroy the electronic equipment used by enemy command centers, their effect on humans in the vicinity is less clear. The U.S. military says HPM weapons are non-lethal, but that doesn't mean free from harm. The U.S Marines Corp. is currently developing a microwave-based weapon that inflicts a brief, intense burning sensation on the target's skin similar to touching a hot light bulb. Mounted on Humvee, the weapon is designed for crowd dispersal. The temperature settings are variable, however, and can be set as high as 130 degrees F. Given that temperature variability, it's possible that someone in the path of a HPM burst might be cooked like a meal readied by a microwave oven.

Source: Scientific American, February 18, 2003

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000CBC91-B6F...

[Ezlivin]

41. It can stop a Christian who is undergoing Rapture

If the Pentagon needs to interrogate a Christian and that particular Christian is in the midst of being "raptured", the weapon will halt their skyward progress and "re-ground" them.

It's sad, but true, that this weapon can be turned against Christians to prevent them from rapturing out of Pentagon control.

Spread the meme.

[norml]

42. Got this from a Google Search of the words "microwave christian rapture"

http://www.hiddencodes.com/bluebeam.htm http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/operatio...

[norml]

44. Directed Energy Weapons: A Bibliography Web Sites

http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/bibs/dewweb.htm


Directed Energy Weapons:
A Bibliography
Web Sites

Return To Table of Contents


Air Force 2025 white papers

Aerospace Sanctuary in 2025: Shrinking the Bull's-Eye
http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume2/chap08/v2c8-1.htm
http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume2/chap08/vol2ch08.pd...

Counterair: the Cutting Edge
http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume3/chap08/v3c8-1.htm
http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume3/chap08/vol3ch08.pd...

Hit'em Where It Hurts: Strategic Attack in 2025
http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume3/chap06/v3c6-1.htm
http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume3/chap06/vol3ch06.pd...

Space Operations: Through the Looking Glass (Global Area Strike System)
http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume3/chap14/v3c14-1.htm...
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Star Tek-Exploiting the Final Frontier: Counterspace Operations in 2025
http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume3/chap09/v3c9-1.htm
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Strikestar 2025
http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume3/chap13/v3c13-1.htm
http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume3/chap13/vol3ch13.pd...
Aircraft Survivability Newsletter
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Air Force Research Laboratory Optical Radiation Branch (AFRL/HEDO)
http://www.brooks.af.mil/AFRL/HED/HEDO
Laser Safety
http://www.brooks.af.mil/AFRL/HED/HEDO/lasers.htm
Document Archive
http://www.brooks.af.mil/AFRL/HED/HEDO/docs.htm
Publications
http://www.brooks.af.mil/AFRL/HED/HEDO/hedo_pubs.htm

Air Force Technology Area Plans

1998 -- http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/usaf/docs/taps98/directe...

1997 -- http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/usaf/docs/taps97/directe...

1996 -- http://www.afmc.wpafb.af.mil/STBBS/info/taps/fy96/advwe...
BMDOLink - Ballistic Missile Defense Organization
http://www.acq.osd.mil/bmdo/bmdolink/html/bmdolink.html

Defense Technology Area Plan (especially Chap. 10)
http://www.dtic.mil/dstp/97_docs/dtap/dtaps.htm

Directed Energy Weapons: Sources and Resources
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/dew.htm

Free Electron Laser Home Page
http://www.physics.nps.navy.mil/fel.html

HABE (High Altitude Balloon Experiment) Research Program Factsheet
http://www.vs.afrl.af.mil/factsheets/habe.html

High Energy Laser Systems Test Facility
http://www.wsmr.army.mil/paopage/Pages/OHELST.htm

Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate
http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/nlw/nlw.nsf

Joint Warfighter Strategy and Technology Plan
http://www.dtic.mil/dstp/98_docs/jwstp/jwstp.htm

Mid-Infrared Advanced Chemical Laser (MIRACL)
http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/asat/miracl.htm

Missile Defense Milestones: 1944-1997
http://www.acq.osd.mil/bmdo/bmdolink/html/milstone.html

Space Systems Electronic Warfare
http://www.infowar.com/survey/space_ew0.html

U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command's Weapons Directorate
http://www.smdc.army.mil/weapons.html
Tactical High Energy Laser
http://www.smdc.army.mil/THEL.HTML
Nautilus
http://www.smdc.army.mil/NAUT.HTML


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[Endangered Specie]

45. W.M.eD.

Weapon of Mass Re-Education

[Just Me]

49. Another crowd control weapon against democracy. n/t