Wow... even Freepers dislike the bankruptcy bill...

[Dookus]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1354533/posts

To: SierraWasp
This is a way to lose the majority in the next few years. Most bankruptcies are medical in nature. We also should be exempting active-duty military personnel. Why is this a priority, but not tax reform and Social Security reform?

9 posted on 03/02/2005 2:42:47 PM PST by Arkinsaw

To: SierraWasp
The Bankruptcy Bill is a complete boondoggle. It is nothing but a $40 billion giveaway to credit card companies and it does nothing to solve the real problem of consumer debt.
In this case, the Republicans are wrong, and I expect they will pay a political price for it.


16 posted on 03/02/2005 3:03:40 PM PST by cicero's_son

To: Arkinsaw
No thanks. If you make bad loans, and we know they do, don't go running to Congress to reestablish debtors prison.
The same corporate freemarketeering types expect to be protected from any responsibility if their company goes bankrupt. So it is only natural that they also want new laws to protect their company from the bad lending decisions they make. They think that they have right to be exempt - they are special.

I would say - you want restricting bankruptcy protection for the regular folks and go back to XIX century? Do THE SAME with the corporations - no more limited liability - you run company to the ground then pay with your own assets and no more golden parachutes!
38 posted on 03/02/2005 5:00:34 PM PST by A. Pole

To: cicero's_son
"The Bankruptcy Bill is a complete boondoggle. It is nothing but a $40 billion giveaway to credit card companies and it does nothing to solve the real problem of consumer debt."
In this case, the Republicans are wrong, and I expect they will pay a political price for it."

Couldn't have said it better myself. My father hasn't even thought of voting Democratic in 25 years, but this initiative has him spitting nails.

This is a great issue for someone like Sen. Clinton to latch onto in order to burnish her "looking out for the little guy" credentials. Hell even Chuck Schumer's on the correct side of this issue.

Me and Chuckles agree on something? Ugh, I need a drink.


42 posted on 03/02/2005 7:42:42 PM PST by LincolnLover

[xray s]

1. I must say I am looking forward to the next campaign

We have the Republicans with a solid voting record denying bankruptcy protection to the elderly, the sick and our men and women in uniform.

Nice work!

[tridim]

6. I don't think the Repukes care if they win next time

They might actually want a Dem to win so he/she'll have to raise taxes. It's pretty much inevitable at this point. Generic Repukes will say, "There go those tax and spend Liberals again! Vote for us in 2012 and we'll give you another $300.00!".

[Warpy]

22. Mostly, they want a Dem to blame the collapse on

They're trying to stay afloat for the next 3 1/2 years, hoping they can stick a Dem with the inevitable result of all their incredibly bad policy so they can point fingers again and shriek about tax and spend Democrats.

I just don't think the majority is stupid enough to buy that again.

Their base continues to get hammered by their incredibly short sided and predatory fiscal policy. Most of the koolaid drinkers are now reluctantly admitting that the GOP was wrong on those tax cuts, is wrong on social security and has blundered badly in Iraq. That they're waking up to the hideous bankruptcy destruction bill is a hopeful sign.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. This time

they can't blame democrats for bills going through. We have no power. It's all on the republicans side. :) So in a small way that's nice to not be blamed for everything. Now if we can do something about the "liberal media" myth.

[KittyWampus]

9. GOP Also Wants To Tax US Veterans For Medical Service.

[AP]

20. Hope we're running on issues like this and not on national insecurity.

[FreedomAngel82]

36. Me too

I think issues like this will help us a lot. SS, money relations, etc. Connecting with people.

[LaPera]

23. What good will the "next campaign" be? If the Republicans continue...

(as they are daily) installing more and more republican owned, operated and serviced electronic voting machines?

If they control the counting of the votes, they control you and everyone else.

[FreedomAngel82]

34. Not that I wish this

but if they do more of the same type of thing they could lose politically. Do you all think any of them would vote democrat? :shrug: Maybe some of them are seeing Bush and their fellow republicans are screwing them over for corporations.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rockymountaindem]

3. Chuckles?

If I were a politician and the worst my opponents could come up with was Chuckles, I'd be flattered. Or perhaps I'd have to work harder to piss 'em off. Either way...

[LoZoccolo]

4. Bush* = Icarus

Someone got too cocky.

[hatrack]

5. Suck it up, Puke-Bots!!!

This is your boy in action, George W. "Chosen By God" Bush, doing what he does best - FUCKING ORDINARY PEOPLE.

Deal with it.

[XanaDUer]

10. I second that.

My sympathy is for those screwed who did NOT vote for this putz.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. I still wonder

after this if they still think he's chosen? :eyes:

[Ellen Forradalom]

7. Thank goodness, they're not all idiots all the time

over at FreeRepublic.

It's curious, though, that one poster says "most bankruptcies are medical in nature" but refuses the connect the dots any further. Reform in our health-care financing system is apparently not one of his priorities.

[zbdent]

13. When freepers start making sense, I start wondering

how many of our types are masquerading over there . . .

[katinmn]

8. there's hope for some of them yet. n/t

[KharmaTrain]

11. Kool Aid Break...

Uh oh, someone in Freeperland figured they were getting shat upon by the masters they assume will take care of them? Oh the shame of it all </sarcasm somewhat off>

Yep, some of these gomers woke up that the credit card companies (they still haven't quite figured out the connection to the large banks yet...these boys are sure slow)...can now operate without any liability or inpunity. If they mess up on a payment on that Hummer, they'll soon find the mortgage on their trailer shot up to 17%. Ooops.

Social Security, Bankruptcy, Health Care, Education, Iraq...the list of big issues Democrats need to develop strong messages on has arrived.

[FreedomAngel82]

39. Someone should

Email them to Dean and Reid. Does Reid have that "war room" going on? I remember reading about that.

[Tactical Progressive]

12. Wow, a freeper actually connecting two dots

'I would say - you want restricting bankruptcy protection for the regular folks and go back to XIX century? Do THE SAME with the corporations - no more limited liability - you run company to the ground then pay with your own assets and no more golden parachutes!'

outside of their pathological one-way-thought process. They usually only understand what they want to understand, even if it means tossing all analogues that defy their corrupt perspective.

This freeper was obviously born with a cerebral defect that allows two neurons to connect that don't support whatever they are supposed to want to support. I don't think she'll last very long in that environment. Not without high-voltage electroshock therapy.

[Swamp Rat]

25. We accept refugees here at DU

:)

When one wakes up, they tend to post something rational, get banned, and then come over here.

[FreedomAngel82]

40. That reminds me

I remember listening to an audio of Kerry at a rally and a woman was telling him how she was a recovering republican and Kerry asked if she had to go to any meetings for that. LOL! At first she was like "huh?" and then "oh!" LOL. I thought that was so funny.

[Swamp Rat]

41. GOP Anonymous!

"Twelve Steps" to recovery from rethuglicanism. :D

[liberalhistorian]

33. I was amazed at that, too,

and actually pleasantly surprised that they were able to do that and also at the other comments that were right on as far as most bankruptcies being due to medical bills and that the military exemption didn't pass.

Maybe there really is hope after all.

[lewiston]

14. Not all our guys are clean on this...

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-chait4mar04,0,1105276.column

[Mojambo]

17. This paragraph sums up the problem well

The trouble here is that the relationship each Democrat has with his home-state business interests is the relationship EVERY Republican has with EVERY business interest. The bankruptcy bill enjoys unanimous GOP support in the Senate. It's a familiar pattern: Noxious laws enjoy support from a coalition of ALL the Republicans plus a rotating handful of Democrats who have ties to interested parties. Almost all the Democrats are on the side of the angels on almost every issue. But it doesn't take many Democratic defectors to give the Republicans a majority.

[depakid]

38. That doesn't apply to most Dems in this case

To give just one example, Ron Wyden of Oregon voted for this egregious legisltion last time around... and his state HAD BEEN SUFFERING from the abuses of the credit card industry. And Oregon has NO INDUSTRY PRESENCE WHATSOEVER.

Wyden's just a man without honer or integrity. So are many of the other Dems.

People see that with the Dems- that they don't really believe what they're saying- that's why they lose.

Edwards, btw- going around with his whole 2 America's spiel- he voted for that bil the last time around too....

[libnnc]

15. If they voted for him...

just like in the movie Goodfellas--when the bar owner asks Big Paulie for help and then is squeezed out and Paulie busts the joint out...


I can hear Ray Liota's voice right now...

So, your wife gets sick and you can't pay your medical bills??
--FUCK YOU, PAY ME!

You don't have enough money to send little Jimmy to college so he has to join the military where he will surely be sent to Iraq??
--FUCK YOU, PAY ME!

You got laid off because the economy sucks and you can't find a job that will pay you enough to make your mortagage every month?
--FUCK YOU, PAY ME!


You asked for it, you got it TOYOTA!

[Old and In the Way]

16. Buyer's remorse?

What part of the Republican "Contract on America" didn't they understand? These criminals have looted the US Treasury to the tune of trillions; they've gotten us into the ME on the basis of lies to protect the interests of their #1 financial backer- Big Oil; they dismantling civil liberties and growing Big Brother; they're destroying the economy for the lower and middle classes; they're trying to destroy the democratic 2 party system; they are trying to destroy Social Security. And now they can enjoy economic sevitude that knows no Party affiliation.

I hope the "winners" who vote and support this Party enjoy their "winnings".

[girl gone mad]

27. Yep. They've only been trying to get this bill through..

for the last 8 years. It isn't like this should be news to anybody.

Oh, but their bigotry towards gays must have blinded them to the cold, hard facts. Well, I have no sympathy.

[Coastie for Truth]

18. Old Mortgage Foreclosure Law In Pennsylvania

was just about as onerous.

At Foreclosure sale, the foreclosed home owner did NOT have a right to come in and bid above the higher bidder ("Equity of Redemption") and the high bidder had to put 1/3 down in cash or certified check, and the other two thirds within a week or two (something much shorter then the pre-computer time to get a mortgage approved).

When "Steel Finally Died" in 1980, there were foreclosures all over the Monongahela Valley. And of course, a small number of buyers were getting good housing stock for 30 cents on the dollar, fixing it up, sitting on it until the rash of foreclosures was over, and selling for 6- cents on the dollar (for a profit of 100% in under a year).

A dissident, insurgent group of United Steel Workers activists challenged this in court. They found the right judge - a hard line, union, Democrat (who had visions of running for the Pa Supreme Court). The judge granted an emergency injunction--

1. Time to pay -- "reasonable commercial practice in the County" (3 months)
2. Amount down - "reasonable commercial practice in the County" (10%)
3. Right of "equity of redemption" until the Foreclosure Buyer actually closed.

An S&L banker who was making big bucks by buying foreclosure houses cheap, and selling high got up and started arguing with the judge.

One thing led to another - until the S&L lawyer (a former college football player) challenged the Judge (also a former college football player) - "Let's settle this like real men." And they had a fist fight in the hallway - until two Deputy sheriffs broke it up.

The new rules stood.

1. Time to pay -- "reasonable commercial practice in the County" (3 months)
2. Amount down - "reasonable commercial practice in the County" (10%)
3. Right of "equity of redemption" until the Foreclosure Buyer actually closed.

The Judge was elected to the State Supreme Court (Pittsburgh - what do you expect)

The S&L lawyer was named a Federal Judge by Reagan (who else?)

[AP]

19. ...and some DU'ers think the problem with '04 was not being anti-war.

I think the OP here shows that a lot of Americans are pretty clear-eyed when it comes to figuring out which direction power shifts through legislation like that this.

Since Democrats should basically exist to make sure that all power doesn't shift to large corporations and all burdens on to people who work for a living (ie, they should to fight fascicsm) it seems to me that communicating this fact to voters should make it pretty clear to a lot of people in the middle that voting for Democrats is a vote in their best interest.

[WMliberal]

21. Vote to stop abortion; get an Anti-bankruptcy bill

Fits right into what Thomas Frank says.

[crikkett]

24. Republicans want to keep their homes too...

A woman cutting my hair just before the election said that she was voting (R) because she just bought a home and doesn't want the economy to go south, and her husband said (R)= healthy economy = less risk to home. This would be her first vote, since she had just been naturalized.

What was I supposed to do? She was cutting my hair. I talked about the timing of the dot-com boom and suggested she read a newspaper in a way that was very pleasant and non-threatening.

Anyway, my point is that I bet many freepers resolve their cognitive dissonance by convincing themselves that (R) votes are the best way to keep their homes. So start threatening a freeper's home, like this bankruptcy bill does, and you lose them.

So perhaps a Democratic strategy could be to start driving harping on how this bill endangers homeowners.

[Cell Whitman]

31. Good point. They're endangering home ownership.

Seems like maybe 10 or more years ago the republicans proposed a change to Medicare which would force the children to go under before some part of Medicare would kick in for the retiree. Had full repub backing. Seems like it was late Bush41.

Anyone remember what I am talking about? hahaha

Anywho, you're right, that should be front and center in the discussion.




http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com/

[girl gone mad]

26. ugh!

To: Robe

I know what you mean. I have seen elderly people say on tv that their property taxes are getting out of hand and they are unable to make ends meet. Between that and health insurance premiums, they are seeing their savings dwindle away.

I still think they should be exempt from school taxes.

8 posted on 03/02/2005 2:40:46 PM PST by hsmomx3 (Steelers in '06)

Why does this moran think property taxes and health insurance premiums are going sky high?

And yet s/he votes for Bush.

Idiots.

[FreedomAngel82]

43. It takes a few times

to get it into their brains. :shrug:

[me b zola]

28. While watching Cspan2 Thurseday, it occurred to me

That we have the '06 & '08 elections in the bag if we play it right.

Several amendments to the BK bill, submitted by Dems, asked for accountability of the super-wealthy, & corporations. Squarely, along partison lines (with exception of bye-bye-Biden) the repubs voted down any measure that would assist honnest people & that would hold accountable those who would abuse their power to avoid the same harsh penalties that are thrust upon average Americans under this awful new BK law.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?r109:35:./temp/~r109bgqVyy::

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r109:35:./temp/~r109bgqVyy:e6078:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r109:35:./temp/~r109bgqVyy:e17879:

So what I am saying is that we have the winning campaing adds right here. Not only that, extending the olive branch at this time to repubs who are alarmed at what is being shoved down their throats may be a wise thing for us to do. Do not give an inch on our beliefs, but use the current stranglehold on average Americans to express our values, and why our values are closer to theirs than the Repuke party is to them.

[FreedomAngel82]

44. Yes

This would be great!

[Coventina]

29. SUCKERS! You voted for the chimp! Now eat his shit!

Amazing how they suddenly get a social conscience when it's THEIR home that's in jeopardy!

:eyes:

[Deja Q]

30. LIKE I HAVE SAID BEFORE, WE ARE ALL BEING PLAYED FOR AS CHUMPS.

Both them and us. By those in power.

Until we all come together acknowledging the baseline problems that the neocons are instilling, what has heppened will only continue.

[NVMojo]

because the average fecking freeper today is a blue collar worker

likely to lose his or her job. DUH to them. They voted for this regime! What the feck did they think was gonna happen? Bush was gonna hand them all a piece of the rich folk action? Idiots.

[NVMojo]

32. because the average fecking freeper today is a blue collar worker

likely to lose his or her job. DUH to them. They voted for this regime! What the feck did they think was gonna happen? Bush was gonna hand them all a piece of the rich folk action? Idiots.

[Cleita]

42. So they are finally realize that they are being raped.n/t

[Enraged_Ape]

45. "To Serve Amurikans" is a cookbook!!

Too bad they're just now figuring this out.