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tgnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 08:56 AM
Original message
The key to discussing the Gannon websites is
to avoid references to "gay" and "male."

Howie Kurtz and a number of conservative mandarins have been seizing on this red herring to accuse liberal bloggers of something verging on sexual McCarthyism.

The story is: the guy has ties to sites that promote prostitution of military personnel.

That's all that needs to be said on the topic. That's damning enough. Focus and repeat that much, don't even worry about the famous photo, and the guy loses a key sympathy point among the non-thinkers.

I'd even go so far as to suggest de-emphasizing the guy's conservative bias, blatant though it is. Accusations of conservative bias coming from liberals are easily dismissed by the MSM and other non-thinkers.

The story is this: Last month, under the guise of asking a question, the guy told a disparaging lie about a leader of the U.S. Senate on live national television.

That's all that needs to be said on that topic. Otherwise, we get tangled in debates over whether or not the rest of the media is also "biased," but toward liberals. That's an empty debate at this point. The issue is, the guy was not a journalist in any meaningful sense of the term. How did he get a press pass? Who makes that decision? What are the criteria?

Thoughts?

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. There's a better way to say it
The guy appears to have been a pimp!
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. The guy appears NOT TO HAVE BEEN A JOURNALIST
WFT was he doing questioning the Prez at press conferences???
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. He was a security risk.
A guy with no credentials and working under a psedonym was able to get four rows away from the President.

Bush may be an idiot, but he's still the President of the United States. I don't want anything bad to happen to him.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. That's exactly what I have been asking about on other threads
Okay-How does someone with a FAKE NAME get cleared into the WH?and allowed to sit ~20 feet from the President?
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tgnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. He says he applied for the pass under his real name.
Which doesn't make a lot of sense. The Congressional press pass people (I forget their official name) rejected the guy, under his real name, because they felt HE DID NOT WORK FOR A REAL NEWS ORGANIZATION. Do the White House daily pass people have lower standards?

And why would they knowingly issue him a pass that has a fake name on it?
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liveoaktx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. And how did a guy NOT A JOURNALIST get hold of the Plame info?
leading to the underpinning of the White House argument that it was common knowledge of all *reporters* about Valerie's job.
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hangemhigh Donating Member (587 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
19. Agreed-the real zinger in this mess is Plame-nt
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. Golly Gee, I can't see what the fuss is about.
Obviously Mr. G. is a good American.

He provided a transition for military personell from serving their country to servicing thier country's leaders.

I think you're right though. De-emphasize the gay angle as much as many of us may (snicker) enjoy the rich hypocracy.
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Alpharetta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. Wasn't he also a conduit for the Plame leak?
So he was part of a treasonous act.
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Riding this Donkey Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
6. Just call it pornography! Save us all a lot of nonsense. I think!
:)
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
7. I knew they were going to try that
Edited on Thu Feb-10-05 09:09 AM by underpants
I doubt it will stick. I can't see the gay community buying it and I certainly can't see the defense of marriage people holding this guy up as their shining light.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yes it will stick
Kerry "outted" Mary Cheney even though she was "out" many years before.
We need to shut up about his being gay.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
9. YES! YES! YES!
Stick to the credentials, money, and influence.

The whole gay thing may be a "kill switch" for if his
cover was ever blown.

Ask yourself... "WWKD?" (What Would Karl Do) or even
more precisely, What Does Karl Want You To Do. (But,
WDKWYTD is too long.)
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
12. When this administration stops referencing "gay and male" as bad,
then I'll take the the accusation of "sexual McCarthyism" to heart. It's the hypocrisy of the Right that is so galling. Their insistence that "family values" are degraded by gay people is what crisps me. They can't have it both ways! Liberals don't care about somebody's sexual preference, but conservatives do. Don't you get that?
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Red Herring...
Is a path which leads nowhere...

Although all the skin is appealing it's not what needs
to be investigated.

Follow the MONEY!
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. The S*E*X will sell it, but the gay aspect is inconsequential.
Guckert/Gannon is a WHORE and a PIMP, literally and figuratively.

He's DIRECTLY connected to PORN.

Please note, the all caps are no accident.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
13. repugs made the whole election judging homosexuality
we keep syaing be quiet on this as dem so they dont use on us. smae with the racial. we cannot let repug twist stand in its absurdity just like kerry's phenomenon with swift boat. he kept quiet, figured no way people would buy no way media would satuate. they did. we wont get help from msm on truth. but we cant back off they gay hypocrisy
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tgnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. The hypocrisy is important, but
not enough for us to run someone out of the job. A good argument can be made that some famously "liberal" journalists get caught from time-to-time in hypocritical stances.

The key to this particular event is that the guy registered websites that appear to be prostituion hubs. That's why you run the guy out of town, not because he was caught being a hypocrit. Hell, half of Washington -- make that 90% -- would have to go under that criteria.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. that isnt why we ran him out of a job. that is repug spin
f* repug spin is what i am saying. a gain msm isnt going to help us, doesnt mean we back off because repugs are spinning it.

that is not why we ran him out of the job. he is out because he is a hypocrit and a plant and who knows what else. if there is a prostitute ring being played out of the white house, i think we have a right to know, even if it is simply sex and us liberals are into embracing it. if it is 16 year old boys or 11 year old boys it is illegal

but even that is not why we ran him out. because he is another media plant pay off by administration in an orginization that is suppose to be open to the public. it is lying and paying for propaganda. it is giving plame memo to this man to out this woman
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. This is the scandal that sells the story to the MSM.
Let's face it, we NEED THE SEX aspect, but we don't need to bring homosexuality into it at all.

We need to sell the story to the MSM; Joe and Jane Sixpack couldn't care less about Plame, though most of us do.

The hypocrisy is STILl in the sex--but it doesn't have to be the gay sex aspect at all.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. sex only for the fundie base
homosexuality for the joe/jane six pak. ole sixpak doesnt care about the sex, they are right in there with the porn, it is the homosexuality they fear and shrivel over
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tgnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. In order for the story to seep into joe/jane sixpack's mind
it has to get sustained play in the MSM. And that won't happen if it comes off as a gay outing story. It will happen only if can be clearly presentated as a security/favoritism/criminality collision.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. it is going to come out as gay outing because they repug own msm
we are not going to stop that. that is how they play it. we are not going to have control on that. it is only up to msm. it is not something all of us are doing that is for sure. we dont care about homosexuality, remember. we are not playing that. but it will be what we are blamed for and what we are talking, plame, or sex period wont be presented

i believe
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
30. the point: media and repugs are not making me fearful of race or
Edited on Thu Feb-10-05 10:24 AM by seabeyond
homosexuality. we are the party that embraces both. a reality and i am not going to be afraid to own those two positions becasue repugs are painting it in illusion, lie. we have to stand up to exactly this and not allow them to skirt us away from it, or they then own it, like family value and morality


they did it with mary cheney and we all put tail between legs in fear we be tainted as anti gay. we should of had a big boisterous laugh saying you morons
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. Send emails to Kurtz making this point
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. Kick...
I think this is more important than kiddies in restaurants.

Sorry.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
20. Priorities of objections....Country vs Personal and persecution.
Edited on Thu Feb-10-05 09:32 AM by higher class
He is obviously a shill for the Republican Party because the person who pays for Talon News is a Republican operative...Eberle.

It is obvious that the White House set up this plant.

He personally is involved in a major event that involves breaking laws - disclosure of undercover agents - by his interview of WIlson disclosing an internal CIA memo that other journalists had not seen.

No one should be able to get a press pass under a false name.

If he, a person who hardly writes a word, and posts other people's stuff on a website calling it Talon News, the door is open to news writers who are more legitimate to get in...Josh Marhsall, Will Pitt.

It is doubtful that he, a Republican operative, would be a physical danger to Bush. It is doubtful, that other press pass holders, get in without Secret Service or FBI scrutiny, therefore there is probably little danger to Bush.

It appears that Talon News existed to provide a voice in press conferences for political purposes.

ALL of the above are matters of our COUNTRY.

The part about the potential male prostitution is all PERSONAL.
Male prostitution, if true, is not the same as pornography.

Male prostitution is a matter of hypocrisy because of the persecution of gays by the Republican Party.

Referring to the PERSONAL life of this operative is justified as long as the Republican Party continues to persecute gays and holds their Party members up as morally superior to Democrats. Investigating his life is justified because of the political act of planting him in the press conferences and giving him a voice.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
21. I don't see anything wrong in referring to this guy as
a gay or male prostitute with White House connections. That's pretty straight forward and honest. The issue of how he got his press pass could be directly related to that small incidental fact and shouldn't be overlooked. He didn't get his job by submitting a resume somewhere. He got his job and his daily pass by having a connection to someone in the White House.
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tgnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. But why would his being gay be relevant
to that matter?
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. The keyword is prostitute.
I could care less about the gay bashing red herring Kurtz is trying to peddle. They're hoping to disassociate themselves from the sleaze factor. Few things are more sleazy in the minds of the masses than a gay/male prostitute and those who would avail themselves of his services. And if someone important in the White House is associated with male prostitutes then so be it. Why hide the fact or pretend it doesn't matter. Bush got elected spouting off about how he was going to restore dignity and morality to the office of the Presidency. Having someone's male prostitute hanging around the White House and masquerading as a reporter isn't dignified or moral, it's sleazy.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Prostitute and porn, prostitute and porn. That's all it takes to get
the Bushbots in a dander; we on the left have no need whatsoever to go after the gay angle.

The less we deal with the gay aspect, the MORE it will bother the bushbots.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
25. "Whore " and "porn" can get their dander up almost as much.
And both can be proven.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
32. The gay angle IS a red herring.
It has nothing to do with the meat of the story, which is that Gannon is a political hack who was given space at press conferences in place of real journalists just so the Admin would have a weakling tossing softballs at them. He's a tool. And he's just cog in the right-wing machine that installed him there and Bush in the White House.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
34. I agree. Gay isn't the issue
prostitution -- which is illegal (except perhaps in NV) is the issue. Bogus journalism is the issue.

Gay is just fun to embarrass the hypocrites with!
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-05 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
35. WARNING...
Everyone needs to be aware of this...

Some lizards when they're pursued drop their tails...

The gay thing is the tail... I'm real hungry and I want lizard.

GO FOR THE LIZARD!

I wish you all good luck and good hunting.



:)
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