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LilKim Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 05:53 AM
Original message
Naked female soldiers mud wrestling in Iraq
Edited on Mon Feb-07-05 06:04 AM by LilKim
Okay, not naked but only wearing bras and panties. The NY Daily News says they got 30 pics but are only showing a couple, and reduced down at that (all in the interest of good taste dontchaknow). Anyone have any others?

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/278577p-238671c....
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. is this where i say -- ''now i've seen everything?''
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. One looked bare-breasted to me.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
64. its a tan bra eom
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. How else are we supposed to show the Iraqis..............
what freedom and Democracy are all about? The insurgents always use the fact that American Society is decadent and evil in their "propaganda". It seems they're not too far off the mark with that statement. Who is controlling our troops in Iraq? And why haven't they been replaced with someone who is capable of the job?
It's the bush administration's legacy, no accountability for anything whatsoever.
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
4. No video?
Ahhhh that's weak.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
5. Reality continues to outpace Comedy
Shouldn't they be playing The theme music from Comedy Central or Maxx-X?

--p!
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. The man show!
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LilKim Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. More
Photos of the 19-year-old military policewoman smiling and baring her breasts for leering male soldiers are the centerpiece of a series of scandalous snapshots taken during a mud-wrestling sexcapade at the camp in Umm Qasr.



"She is a very beautiful young woman," the grandmother said, "and she is built like the proverbial ... well, you know. She gets a lot of male attention."

http://www.nydailynews.com/02-06-2005/news/wn_report/st...
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. The caption of that photo says she was "busted", does Beavis
write the paper now?
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
35. Nah. The Daily News was always Butt-head
The NY Post is more like Beavis.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Wardrobe malfunction?
Or was it military malfunction?
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
82. Is she preparing for
the porno industry? :eyes:
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. there sure are a lot of isolated incidents
Kind of like all the isolated incidents of election fraud.

So long as you refuse to add them together, I guess they remain isolated.
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gottaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
8. Honorem Restituimus?
Ready when called!
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. 28 more pics?
Bigger, please
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
11. Okay so we are killing people over there...
and people still get pissed off over some nudity.

Thats fucking stupid.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. Look , Arabs think we're sluts. Why add fuel to the fire?
I know a woman who spent time in the Mil in Saudi. She SWEARS there were US military personnel (female) who made $$$ on the side by hooking with local Saudis. She felt that the Saudis might have had more respect for U.S. women if all that business was stopped.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
13. You know what disturbs me about these pics?
the men in uniform gathered around watching all of this, like it's entertainment.



i'm a feminist, but stuff like this makes me wonder if women in the military is that great of an idea.


i don't think it's the women themselves, so much as their age, i think.


especially when you take into account the number of pregnancies that occur when women go out on ships. it's one of those wierd areas.


i'll prepare myself for flames now.
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. You mix, in many cases,
teenaged men and women, and you are going to get teenaged behavior. Granted the Officers and NCOs should have put a stop to this--one wonders where the hell they were when this occurred. I'm beginning to think we need to mix more active duty troops in with these reserve units.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. yeah that's exactly what i'm getting at....
Edited on Mon Feb-07-05 09:16 AM by MsTryska
that articles mentions senior officers letting their pads out for sex parties tho, so i'm guessing this is fully sanctioned.

but back to the teenagers, that's it exactly - you got kids going in at 18-19 years old, and the girls are outnumbered by the boys, so they turn into these little sex objects and don't get taken seriously. thy act out, as there's nothing stopping them, and it kinda hurts my heart, seeing these girls "performing" essentially, for the boys that are watching.

maybe what's needed is true sensitivity training.
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Actually you are wrong on one point
it was NOT senior officers lending out their "pads;" it was some of the Sergeants. And remember, some of those sergeants are barely out of their teens as well.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Sargeants are NCOs, tho no?
i'm not sure how it works for other branches, but at least with the Corps, Staff Sargeants are NCOs.


but yeah, they're still barely out of their teens as well, so their judgement may not be the best.
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. True
They are NCOs, but that is a LONG ways away form being a "senior officer."
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
42. yeah - i guess we have a different idea of
what senior officer means.


i realize it means upper level officers, but in my context i meant "people in charge of other people"
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Heck you can be an E-4 and
be in charge of others at 21 in the military. That's pretty "junior" to me.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. i agree.
but then again, don't they go through training when they get to NCO status? again, as i said, i know the fraternization thing gets drummed into them, but aren't they taught other sensitivty type stuff too? (int he new kinder gentler armed forces.)
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. They all have Social Actions type training from day one
Then supervisors have more in-depth training (when they attain NCO status--only NCOs and above can be supervisors in the AF for example. Common sense would have told them ALL that this was wrong.
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proudarmymom Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #45
61. You are correct Ms Tryska
Yes, they go through extensive sensitivity training as NCOs and officers, and it is their duty to discipline any soldier caught making racist remarks, male-bashing or female-bashing, etc. Can you imagine what chaos would ensue if it were tolerated?

They also get a lot more training in monitoring those who report to them for signs of PTSD. Not so long ago the Army pretty much expected soldiers to keep a stiff upper lip and buck up, but thankfully we've learned a lot of lessons from the sad treatment soldiers returning from Viet Nam experienced.

Whatever you think of the war, hopefully you are compassionate enough to understand just how much harm is done to the mental health of military personnel returning from war when their fellow citizens accuse them of being baby-killers when they are merely doing the job they are ordered to do. Nobody wants to be there. They just want to get the job home and get home alive. They are not bloodthirsty, quite the opposite. The terrible tragedy they witness every day will be with them in their hearts and minds forever. Many are strong enough to be able to live with it, but about 20% aren't and need extensive counseling and monitoring post-redeployment.

PAM
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #61
85. Nobody wants to be there?
Perhaps they should have joined the Peace Corps.

All war is crime against humanity, NONE are justified.

Why do fools join armies, build weapons and have killers for leaders?
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #85
90. Yeah that crime against humanity the US
and UK committed against the Nazis in WWII really needs to be condemned.
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proudarmymom Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
60. Uh.... wrong
My son-in-law is a staff sergeant who has been in Iraq for 13 months. He's finally run his last mission and is waiting for transport home. He enlisted when he was about 20, is on his second tour of duty, and is 29 years old. I don't know what the average age of a staff sgt. is, but there is no way an immature kid is going to be given responsibility for the lives of a squad of soldiers. He is one of the most mature, responsible, ethical people I've ever met, and I'm proud he's in my family.

I respectfully recommend restraint until you've done your homework.

Best
PAM
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #60
91. I think she just meant Sergeant Not Army Staff Sergeant
As SOME sergeants are indeed 21 or 22 years old.
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newportdadde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. Getting more mud?
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Or beer...NA of course
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
83. Don't they have any leadership?
Where's all the leadership over there? Are they all just going out there like some really deranged and wild frat party?
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
31. Consider that if it were a couple of guys wrestling...
...the men in uniform would be gathered around, watching it as entertainment, too.


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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. True, but it's A LOT more fun
if it's two chicks doing it.
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seaofcrisis Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
48. I agree with you.
>i'm a feminist, but stuff like this makes me wonder if women in the military is that great of an idea.

yeah, but what is the alternative? We can't deny women the opportunity to serve. It's their right as much as anyone else. We can't segregate units either. That's just not acceptable to our society.

The fact is, whenever you are in a group of people of both sexes, there is pressure to exhibit mating behavior, and there is absolutely nothing that you can do to stop that. It's just a fact of life for our species.

If there is one sort of bright point in all this, I can say that in my experience male soldiers do have plenty of respect for female soldiers in leadership positions or otherwise - right up until they do something stupid like this. Then that all goes out the window and they are forever thought of as objects. So the moral of the story is that, as a women, you have the opportunity to be treated equally. It's just easier for you to throw that opportunity away.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Yeah....very good points.
i'm been mullign this over all morning myself.

i definitely wouldn't want to deny any woman the right to serve based on her chromosomes - that's like a giant leap backwards.

and sensitivity trainign sounds like such a liberal wuss suggestion doens't ti? *lol*


but perhaps, during bootcamp, they might be able to give women soem extra training in how to comport themselves, and perhaps give extra special attention to the issues wiht fraternizing and sleeping with members of your unit or soemthing.


I agree that most get utmost respect, until they are seen as sexual creatures. and it's a tough position for a 18 year old female, when you are in the minority and in high demand for your body by the majority. it becomes real easy to wind up being a total sex object.
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #49
59. I beg to differ,
but we shouldn't be making excuses for the actions of this woman. Are you suggesting that the gender imbalance in her unit somehow forced her to bare her chest?
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #59
84. I agree
She looks really happy and proud of herself and her body. That young solider next to her is really eyeing her chest. Ugh.
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proudarmymom Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #48
67. BFD
I must admit that I don't get what the big deal is if a bunch of consenting females decided to blow off some steam and do a mud-wrestling exhibition, except maybe WRT the girl who flashed the guys.

This was a group of national guard who were going home the next day. The women there are trained in hand-to-hand combat, to use a bayonet and how to shoot a rifle and defend themselves under fire, no matter what their jobs. They take pride in being just as tough as the men.

So if you look at them as the kick-ass babes they really are, they may have enjoyed the challenge of pinning each other in the mud. Heck, they'd have enjoyed the challenge of trying to pin the guys, except they'd be risking a lot more trouble from their superiors had they mixed it up that way. There isn't any sex going on, the men aren't touching them. They are having fun, the there is very little of that to be had there.

As to the likelihood of sgts loaning out their quarters for sex, those are vanishingly small odds. Sgts definitely don't get private quarters. My son-in-law has shared a comex (the boxy container housing being used over there besides tents) with two other guys for 13 months. I suppose all three occupants could agree to loan their quarters out, but they'd be nuts to do so. They are all duty-bound to report improprieties they encounter. And if they don't and the improper conduct comes to the attention of their superiors, they are in very serious trouble. They're not going to risk their career and rank for that - I seriously doubt they'd even appreciate being asked or that soldiers they outrank would dare to do so. Much too much risk of getting in serious trouble, and the punishments can be a lot worse than a little KP.

Bear in mind that this is the story as reported by tabloid journalists - and even they admit they are repeating rumours as to who did what.

PAM
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #67
86. They are having fun, the there is very little of that to be had there.
FUN??

In a war zone?

That kind of "fun" is not professional conduct.
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
18. This is a failure of management...
The generals have the authority to prevent this kind of thing, both through leadership by example as well as through strict regulations. During WWII the conduct of soldiers was strictly proscribed, which isn't to say that they didn't get drunk and cavort, but they knew they had to do it discreetly to avoid courts martial.

The fact that this goes on shows a basic misunderstanding of how we (Americans and westerners) are viewed in Iraq. The Iraqis who support us have to defend us to their brethren who say that we are immoral hedonists, and here we are, behaving like immoral hedonists.

This is just stupid.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Let's try this again. *lol*. I agree with what you are saying...
Edited on Mon Feb-07-05 09:23 AM by MsTryska
wehn my ex was going through MCT for the Corps, they did have somewhat strict rules regarding theeir behaviro with the opposite sex, but the rule seemed to be more reinforced as to fraternizing.

But then i talk to my Navy friends and they tell me about what goes on ships, and it seems to not be getting through or something.


i do know the military performs far more abortions per capita than the general public. but does that mean the female soldiers get pregnant more often, or that they choose to opt out of pregnancy because of their jobs?
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
19. My take on this? These troops are fighting a freakin' WAR!
Ain't nobody's bidness if they play rough on their free time.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Didn't Rush use that same argument for Abu Ghraib? eom
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #23
52. So you are comparing mud wrestling to torture?
Yeah those females should be convicted and spend a few years in prison. :eyes:
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Thanks, Tex. :-)
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
55. Screw rush. You're talking apples and oranges. Who did they hurt?
If they want to mud wrassle and get drunk it's fine with me. The ass wipes who narked on them should have their sanctimonious asses kicked.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
76. That's not really fair! Torturing People and Having a Party are not the
same thing.
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #76
81. Only if you're having a party while torturing people. eom
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
54. technically they're not
Edited on Mon Feb-07-05 06:43 PM by Djinn
there was never a war declared and what is happening now eitehr way is an occupation, that said I couldn't give a flying if every US troop ponced about Iraq stark naked.

I wonder about the women who think it'll help their standing in the eyes of their sexist male colleagues if they get their jugs out but at the end of the day what redneck yobbo's do with their own time is, I guess, their own business
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. VietNam wasn't a declared war either, but a lot of us got our asses...
...shot off. Damn right, let them get nekkid. ;)
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #57
68. by all means
just don't think it says a lot for this woman or that she did much to improve on her male colleagues views on women in the military.

but if one wants to bang out the baps who am I to stop you - there's no law against being a yob
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. I've been to war, and it sucked. Sometimes I recall a WAF I met there...
...I hope she remembers me, too. It felt good having someone who gave a shit, if only for a while.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. how does banging your boobs out
show you care?
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. Hey, war is a lonely place, okay? Millions of soldiers have done things...
...under those conditions they wouldn't at home... or maybe they would.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #77
79. true
beleive if people anywhere at anytime wanna get neked I really don't care but I just don't get the connection between "tits oot for the lads" and caring about someone
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
88. I will remember this
when some go "postal" after the war.
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dvaravati Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
22. need pics
for analysis.
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
26. This is what bush has done to us.
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proudarmymom Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
69. Oh Puhleeeze ....
I don't like him much myself, but are you so myopic that you blame him for absolutely everything that happens? You think these women are somehow acting on an impulse to mud wrestle that they couldn't possibly have ever had otherwise? What is this, magical thinking?

I think I'll blame him that it's not 75 degrees this evening here in our nation's capital, where I sit writing this two blocks from the white house.

PAM
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #69
87. The War Chimp put these people in this position...
It was HIS decision to fight an unnecessary and illegal war. Our military should ONLY be used for defense - putting them in the middle of this clusterfuck, with its lack of purpose, directly caused this behavior. If you were in the middle of Hell, how would you behave??

Welcome to DU, PAM. And a word of friendly advice: defending the War Chimp here will probably get you banned...
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Benson Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
28. HA! This is a RECRUITMENT Ploy! (NT)
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. hahahahaa
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
30. ah, spreading Republican Moral Values (tm) all over the world
-
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. I think these are "bored young people" values
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
34. My first reaction...
.. was to make noises like the old former grunt I am...(grizzled old vet voice) "Damn... in my time in the Corps, we was lucky to just be able to buff our own banana once in a while, or maybe take a chance on ol' Betty Boom-Boom. Now... shit... them boys don't even have to leave base."

Then I read some of the posts. One thing I think everybody is overlooking is that those kids (and older people, too) don't see the war as an abstraction. For them, it's reality.. the most real reality you can imagine. Rules your momma taught you, or the nuns, or whoever, just don't count. Why make a big deal about flashing your breasts when you could get blown into a pile of guts tomorrow? Any game biologist will tell you that breeding increases in any population under predation. Those kids are responding to something buried in their "old" brain. That part of the brain is getting a lot of stimulation these days... you know.. the "fight or flight" thing.

Torture, sex, suicide, depression, violence... it's all part of the effects of war on humans. I'm not making excuses for people.... I just wish this fucking country would realize what it really means to send people to war. It makes animals out of them, and then we're surprised.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
37. lol..this could actually be an effective recruiting commercial
nothing grabs the american attention span like beer and tits
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. The American STRAIGHT MALE
(and I guess lesbian) attention span.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
39. Most titillating experience
Please keep us abreast of any further developments.

Did any of these women enlist under W's plan for breast enhancement surgery, obviously for patriotic reasons, and what woman in her right mind wouldn't enlist to get some saline implants courtesy of the effete taxpayer? Now THIS is real family values in action!
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Sigh, back to
that blown out of proportion canard, I see
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
41. What did Col. Kurtz say
in "Apocalypse Now"? "We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write fuck on their airplanes because it's obscene!"
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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
44. Remember when all we had was Hot Lips Houlihan?


We need a modern version of M*A*S*H.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
47. We definately need the rest of the photos
We need to determine exactly what went on.

And video too, yeah video...
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
50. You can't help but notice
that some of the ladies appear to have taken advantage of the military's plastic surgery benefit, if you get my drift. :wow:
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. What benefit?
do you have any idea how many women get that done each year? It's NOT a benefit.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #51
71. Actually yes it is a 'benefit'; free boob jobs for US military members
& spouses of military.
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #71
92. No it's actually not
The number of "free boob jobs" given to active duty military and military spouses on Space A basis are so few and far between, that it would be asinine to call them a "benefit" in the proper term of the word.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #92
93. And what US military unit are YOU with?
Edited on Tue Feb-08-05 07:13 AM by LynnTheDem
It IS in fact a BENEFIT; any soldier or dependant of a soldier can get a free boob job.

Members of the U.S. military can get face-lifts, breast enlargements, liposuction and nose jobs for free.

"Anyone wearing a uniform is eligible," Dr. Bob Lyons, chief of plastic surgery at Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, told the magazine.

http://www.thedailystar.com/opinion/edits/2004/07/ed072...

Bigger breasts offered as perk to U.S. soldiers

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5487712/?GT1=4244
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #93
94. ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE
Show me--in writing--the military regulation that establishes the policy whereby ANY female solider or female spouse of a solider can get a free boob job.

SOME servicewomen and SOME spouses of servicemen MAY qualify to get breast augmentation or redaction under certain circumstances on a Space A basis. To allege, as you have, that this is a blanket "benefit" is an utter falsehood.

To answer your question, late of the 488IS with an active duty wife (ICAF).
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #94
95. Free boob jobs for "anyone in a uniform"
Edited on Tue Feb-08-05 07:31 AM by LynnTheDem
YES in FACT the US Military -all 4 branches- will do free boob jobs for "anyone in a uniform". You need the CO's permission; some dependants have to pay a "nominal fee" and yes it's on a SA basis, which means little to nothing, as most dependants under Tricare go to civilian hospitals.

I don't have a problem with plastic surgery thru the military; the surgeons, as DoD pointed out, "have to practice".
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. Show me in writing
where that is the policy. If you are truly a military spouse you know that NOTHING is officially unless it is in writing. So show me. I'm willing to bet you can't for one simple reason; it doesn't exist. SOME women can get breast augmentation for free on an SA basis. TRICARE DOES NOT pay for cosmetic surgery except in rare cases--cosmetic breast augmentation is not one of those. And BTW, NO one needs CO permission to get surgery done, not even cosmetic surgery--I was a CC, I know.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #96
97. Yes I "truly are a military spouse"; why don't you go speak to your
Edited on Tue Feb-08-05 07:44 AM by LynnTheDem
Tricare rep. Then you can come back & apologize to me for calling me, in effect, a liar. ;)


It turns out that although it's true that active duty personnel may seek cosmetic surgery which, along with all other military health benefits, is free the surgeon must first get approval from the prospective patient's commanding officer, which reportedly is neither easy to obtain nor frequently granted.

http://www.cosmeticsurgerytimes.com/cosmeticsurgerytime...


Last year, military doctors gave soldiers, sailors, Marines, air force personnel or their family members a total of 261 breast enlargements, 288 tummy tucks, 385 liposuction procedures, 135 face lifts and 69 nose jobs, according to service calculations.

Active duty personnel pay nothing for the elective make-overs, except the cost of any required implants. Breast implants , for example, would run a servicewoman about $800, compared to a going rate of about $6,000 in the civilian world.

If we didnt allow them to do that, I dont think wed be able to find many doctors who would want to come into the service and stay in, said Patricia Buss, deputy chief medical officer for TRICARE, the militarys health plan.

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=77...
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #97
99. You are
Edited on Tue Feb-08-05 07:55 AM by DistantWind88
From the Tricare Handbook: Suppose a beneficiary in the U.S. wishes to have breast augmentation. After discussing her case with her local TRICARE Service Center staff, she is told that TRICARE cannot cover the TRICARE procedure because it is not medically essential. TRICARE cannot pay for the procedure if she decides to go downtown and have the operation.

http://www.europe.tricare.osd.mil/main/pao/news/4-06-Pr...
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. Last time; call up your Tricare rep
Or are you also calling the deputy chief medical officer for TRICARE a liar?

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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #100
101. Sure am
Look at the link. Show me IN writing where TRICARE pays for cosmetic breast augmentation that is not medically required. I have shown you a TRICARE document which states they do NOT. Check and mate.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #101
102. Sorry dear, but you are, in fact, wrong.
And I showed you a quote from the deputy chief medical officer for TRICARE.

From your own link;

Next, she visits her Primary Care Manager at her military hospital and requests a breastaugmentation procedure. She is told that she may have the operation at the military facility. They have space available to see her, and also have a military doctor who specializes in this area and needs toperform such a procedure in order to maintain his proficiency. She must pay the cost for the breast implant itself, but not the surgery.

"Check & mate" back atcha. Buh bye. ;)
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. You said that TRICARE pays for the surgery
I proved to you that it doesn't.

I didn't say that a woman could not have the BA done at a military hospital. I stated that they COULD on an SA basis. YOU claimed that they could also get TRICARE to pay for it. I showed you, from a TRICARE document, that you were, once again, wrong.

You tried to change the topic slightly to a point I already agreed on--that military hospitals WILL perform BAs on an SA basis--to hide the fact that you are wrong about TRICARE paying for cosmetic breast augmentation. They don't. They say they don't. And you have not provided a TRICARE document to refute that.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #103
105. Tricare DOES pay for the surgery.
Edited on Tue Feb-08-05 08:22 AM by LynnTheDem
READ your own link:

She must pay the cost for the breast implant itself, but not the surgery.

They do not pay for the cost of the IMPLANTS, the dependant pays that; but the dependant DOES NOT pay for the surgery.

Active duty soldiers don't pay anything.

But for active-duty servicemen and women, these surgeries are being performed for free, with no limit to how many procedures are done. Military records show 757 elective cosmetic procedures were done last year. That included 487 breast augmentations, 283 liposuctions and 90 tummy tucks.

Have a nice day!
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #105
106. That's IN the military facility!!
in a military hospital. NOT from TRICARE at a civilian facility! Get a freaking clue!

And WOW! A whole 757 elective cosmetic surgeries done last years of which 487 were BAs. How many women in the military? How many women spouses? LMAO at this supposed "benefit."
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
53. Wow, not only are we exporting "freedoms" but our best
Edited on Mon Feb-07-05 06:43 PM by Cleita
culture too. How soon before the Iraqis get their own version of "Cops" and tractor pulls?
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
58. They were doing this to Steve Miller Band.
and you know it.
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hangemhigh Donating Member (587 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
62. It's a respect thing.
A SELF respect thing. Take out the illegal occupation, the foreign country, the torture, etc. and what you have is GIRLS GONE WILD, BAGHDAD. I see this as young women having so little self identity and self worth that this is how they get attention. Rather than, let's say, accomplishment and achievement on a consistent and sustained basis. What do you really need to be able to do if you have nice tits and will show them? This is not a sad commentary on the troops or this evil war. It's a sad commentary on young women who CHOOSE to get attention this way. Let's review-Janet Jackson's boob on the Holy Superbowl=Outrage. Anywhere else, no big deal. Got it.
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Grey Ranks Donating Member (179 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
63. Wow...
What a worthless thing to be worried about. In the middle of a war zone some woman showed her breats. We lost the war folks, there are tits involved now!

That is hardly tantamount to the rampant DUI and drug problems in the Army. Good thing commanders have their priorities. Fortunately she is in the army, should have her rank back in a few months.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
65. Why can't I find this on Yahoo ?
I would think this would be one of the top stories. But not a word.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
66. Bringing freedom and democracy to those godless Islamists.
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Grey Ranks Donating Member (179 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. It works for beer
Why shouldn't it work for religon too?
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
74. They are over there killing and acting like it's fucking spring break?
How disgraceful and unprofessional. It looks like more and more of these soldiers are getting out of control.

Does that type of behavior reflect well on our military or our country?

Not to mention, it makes it appear these soldiers are just having a grand time over there. WTF?
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
75. Who can blame them! I hope they had FUN !!!!
I support all the men and women serving in the armed forces and after serving in this war, they deserve it. They were on their way home, still alive and in one piece and that deserves a celebration!
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #75
80. They violated military code and could be court martialed
snips from OP article:

"Military brass acknowledged that the wild scene represented a serious breakdown of military discipline.

An initial report by investigators in Iraq notes that sergeants from the 160th Military Police Battalion allegedly organized the mud-wrestling bout. It quotes a witness who said senior noncommissioned officers were present and appeared "noticeably drunk."

Col. Isadore Rommes, commander of the 160th, told The News the reported behavior of his troops in the free-for-all was "not acceptable" and "could result in Article 15 punishment or courts-martial."

###
You may support ALL of the troops, but I don't support those that commit war crimes, break military code and do things that reflect poorly on our country. I think this behavior is particularly damaging considering the sexual abuse and torture incidents.

We are paying them (however little it is) to do a job honorably. If they can't stand the heat, they should get the fuck out of the kitchen rather than breaking military code at OUR EXPENSE. How does this look to the Iraqis?

They should have waited until they were at home.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #80
104. Lighten up Francis!
Cutting some GI's just the smallest bit of slack to have a party at the end of their tour DOES NOT mean that one condones torture, sexual harassment, rape, beheading, stealing candy from children, cultural insensitivity or a complete breakdown in military discipline. Those people that make that claim are being silly and disingenuous.

If they can't stand the heat, they should get the fuck out of the kitchen rather than breaking military code at OUR EXPENSE. How does this look to the Iraqis?

Where to start with this bit of idiocy. I am sure that there would be a line from Baghdad to Basra of GI's wanting to get "the fuck out of the kitchen" if given the chance. Do not forget that a large chunk of our military in Iraq were living normal lives in America before they were snatched up and sent to fight in this bogus war. The part about your "expense" is ridiculous and insulting. It isn't you that wakes up every morning and faces the day with the real possibility of being blown to bits or seeing your friends killed before your eyes. It isn't you that has to endure all of the deprivations and loneliness of serving so far from home. You are not the one that has to live the rest of your life with the visual horror that war always displays for soldiers.

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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
78. i actually remember the furor over the Tailhook scandal
seems so long ago...i wonder if this story has the same legs if more info bubbles to the surface...

the bottom line is this is a lack of institutional control and a dishonor to women in the military, imo
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #78
89. No big deal if...
they had done this in Amerika but on Muslim soil? How stupid are these people? This kind of behavior is exactly why among many other greater reasons that Muslims see Amerikans as decadent and disrespectful It may not big deal to most non- Muslim Amerikans but it sure is to Muslims. Of course their commanders get no disciplinary actions behind this because in the Bush Admin. accountablity mostly falls to the lower ranks.
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Stockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
98. Wonder if the act was followed by two guys mud wrestling?
Or is this what is meant by supporting women in combat?
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