I am not a religious person, but...

[Goathead]

If there were ever a candidate for the Anti-Christ, George Bush would be it. False prophet, demagogue, wars, one world monetary system, New World Order, destruction of the environment on a global scale, yep. Why can't the fundies see that? I guess they choose not to. Finally, I have found something that I honestly think George Bush is good at: World annihilation.

[7th_Sephiroth]

1. i'm the furthest thing from a worshiper of Yaweh, but

the sox winning the superbowl on the night of an eclipse, earth shattering huricanes (went through the worst of them) massive tsunami's, the wierders-assed weather i have ever seen, and now increasing volcano activity, i really must wonder if some sort of apocalyptic thing is going down

[Erika]

2. In the last days

good will be known as evil, and evil as good (Biblical reference). The fundies see W as good. He is not.

[ramadoss]

3. He's not that bad

His environmental policies kill me. He will never get a one world monetary system unless it's the Euro. The Euro is really strong right now. His financial policies are just a rehash of Reagan and his trickle down economics which doesn't work but is fixable, we'll just have to wait awhile. With the success of the Iraqi elections, as long as things there move forward with little distraction our image with the rest of the world should improve. I disagree with most of what he does but he does somehow manage to get things done.

[Goathead]

4. "Success of the Iraqi elections"???

Last time I checked that was still pending. And the U.S. Dollar is the de facto currency of the world. You can find it as the standard in the black market all over the world. Hell, the U.S. Dollar is the official currency of Ecuador.

[ramadoss]

5. pending

Yes, it is still pending but we all know the results will be positive and valid. The elections being a success is an incredibly positive thing that we should be supporting instead of questioning. 70% of the population voted in Iraq. That's higher than the US voter turnout. The dollar is weak right now and the Euro incredibly strong and spreading. There is no way in hell the dollar would become the world currency anytime soon.

[tishaLA]

6. Seriously, what are you talking about?

70% of the population voted? According to whom, worldnetdaily? How do you know the results of the election will be positive and valid? Are you a soothsayer?

[ramadoss]

7. several sources

several sources have given around a 70% voter turnout. Iraqi election officials estimated 72%.

I'm not a soothsayer, thanks for asking though. I don't know for sure but what else can go wrong now. The insurgents proved themselves to be struggling on election day. All the threats and intimidation just kind of fizzled when they were unsuccessful in preventing voters from coming out and for the first time voting in a free, democratic election. Election fraud, maybe a small amount but even still they should have enough votes to make it valid. I have high hopes for success in Iraq. Now that we are there we need to be sure it will not degrade into another oppressive dictatorship that it was under Saddam.

[tishaLA]

9. all those initial estimates are now below 60%

and I guess those 109 insurgent attacks on election day was just a bit of fizzle. I wouldn't call it that, though; you are welcome to paint the bright picture provided in your favorite news outlet.

[ramadoss]

13. 109

I had not heard the 109 figure. If that's the case, the insurgents were even less successful than I thought. 33 Iraqi's dead was the last number I heard. So, each attack killed almost 1/3rd of a person. I'd still call it a fizzle since they were so unsuccessful in their attempt to ruin the election. Our troops and Iraqi police and security did a good job apparently. That's good news.

Just over 60% is what they are saying now for the turnout. The goal of election officials was 50% turnout. Even if they overestimate they will still have met the goal and have successful election results.

[cags]

113. Again, 60% of registered voters not the whole population

[Lerkfish]

120. I read there were 175 attacks on election day.

not sure where I saw that, though.

regardless...the point is:

The elections are a sham, pushed through for the deadline to occur before Shrub's SOTU. THAT'S THE ONLY REASON FOR THE DEADLINE, to prop up the political cachet of the leader of the occupying invading force.

That should give you pause.

[Swamp Rat]

10. There was NO election in Iraq.

It's just a PR campaign, a fiction on TV created by Bush&Co, spun by the corporate media.

[rhino47]

11. We are the F ing oppressive dictatorship in Iraq

eom

[jdots]

20. bye bye now .

[Stirk]

26. I hope you'll come back to this thread in a month or so.

Be sure to drink plenty of Kool-Aid, and bring lots of sunscreen. You're going to have to blow alot of sunshine up my ass.

[ramadoss]

76. Kool-aid

What's the deal with you guys and Kool-aid?

[cags]

112. Again, 60% of registered voters not the whole population

It makes a huge difference in your point

[neweurope]

15. The dollar IS world currency. The numbers you cite of the Iraq election

are false. "but we all know that the results will be positive and valid". Where the .. have you been? One more leader of a third world state being installed by the US - sorry, I for one cannot find this positive at all!

Moreover may I point out to you that in Iraq there are some more things involved than just your damn reputation!

The lives of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. Now already and also in the future.

I don't feel very secure knowing that the USA have a lot of permanent military bases in Iraq, oh no.

---------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[ramadoss]

18. Would you rather

have had the election fail completely. Hundreds of people killed and hundreds of thousands maybe millions scared away from the polls by the insurgents. What would we be left with then. Absolutely nothing. We would be worse off than we are now. I don't want to see that, do you? I think the elections are a positive thing for Iraq. I'm not worried about reputation although that is a very important part of foreign policy Bush has not been so great at. The election should help that which is again not at all a bad thing. Unless you want to see our country continue to be despised by a majority of the world. I was not aware that the Iraqi bases had been declared permanent. Got a link for this?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

32. Link

The Pentagonese as "enduring camps" to go with the twelve permanent communications towers.

Here's a nice collection of links with easy to follow explanations. :)

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0119-23.htm

Knowledge is the path to enlightenment.

[neweurope]

40. No I don't have a link for this but others will. Inform yourself.

It was a number of times here on DU. Why, please, do you think they fought the war in Iraq in the first place? For oil and geostrategic reasons like always.

As to the elections: Free elections under guidance of the UN I would have welcomed. What happened in Iraq is an absolute sham. The "national assembly" thus "elected" will write the constitution. A US-friendly "constitution". :puke: enough said.

Inform yourself. You should more than I. I'm German. And because I'm German I take the liberty to care more for the poor, poor people of Iraq than for the reputation of the US which was bad all over the world even before Iraq.


-----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[ramadoss]

66. FYI

The UN is a useless organization full of hot air and no means of enforcement. Plus, it has been rocked with the oil for food scandal. UN members were working with Saddam and Iraq. The UN has lost much credibility. This is no reason for the US to go it alone but you cannot talk about the UN as a purely poisitive organization.

You care more for the poor than me or Americans in general? I've been homeless, I've been poor, still am poor.

[thebigidea]

68. you do realize that the US was involved in this awful scandal, yes?

you do realize that the US knew everything that was going on in the oil for food program, yes?

you do realize that many of the corporations involved were American, yes?

despite what O'Reilly and company would like you to believe, this "scandal" isn't just a convenient way to attack Europe and the UN - or do you think its ok to cherrypick the facts in the service of lousy talking points worn out months ago?

[ramadoss]

70. we knew

I am fully aware that some American companies were involved but did not realise that our government was fully aware of it the whole time. If that were the case don't you think we would have said something earlier.

I don't listen to O'Reilly or any of those other hacks. I don't need them to tell me how I'm supposed to think.

[thebigidea]

71. yet uncannily, their messages seem to come out of your mouth

maybe when you're sleeping, little elves whisper dark secrets in your ear... stuff about moving forward, endless war, and flat taxes. Your only course of action is to never sleep... think how many more things you could get done, just like our heroic President.

[EST]

119. May I add that the US, under a series of questionable

administrations, has engaged in a systematic campaign to eviscerate the UN, to undermine it and to disempower it and to underfund it. Tear the organization down then accuse it of being ineffective-that's the US. Faugh! I should puke.

[Kahuna]

90. But you obviously have no problem with the 9 BILLION dollars..

that lifted by the CPA??? And the FACT that bushco and his repuke henchmen seem to be totally unconcerned about it.

[ramadoss]

93. I didn't realise

I had mentioned the 9billion dollars. How can you know I have no problem with it if I never mentioned it? Putting words in my mouth will not work with me. I will catch you every time. I'm not gonna discuss it in this thread but I will tell you I disagree with the money spent on the war and hope they find where this missing money went and make the proper person/people/company/government responsible for it.

[neweurope]

106. Really you should do some homework!

If the UN has been "useless" it was more often than not because the US obstructed as much as they can; they've been doing it for decades. "The UN has lost much credibility"? In the US maybe after all that propaganda - the rest of the world is of the opinion that the UN must be strengthened. It's the world's only chance against bullies like the US.

"You care more for the poor than me or Americans in general": Huh? I said "I care more for the poor, poor people in Iraq than for the US- reputation." Now that's not so hard to understand...?

P.S.: DO you know what happened in Fallujah?

P.P.S.: Would somebody please show ramadoss some Fallujah-pictures? I cannot use the search function and cannot post pictures unfortunately.

--------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to the Hague!

[Theres-a]

117. oh,so the us hasn't been rocked with scandal?

please.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

96. You got's to be kiddin' me...

The "elections" were a complete forgery, hell Diebold is helping to count the ballots in this sham.

The best of things to have happened would have been for every citizen of that sovereign nation to refuse participation in this criminal intimidation. Did you know that the fellow who holds your food ration card, "requires" you to vote?

Furthermore if you fail to vote this time you will NOT be able to do so next.

YOU need to get a more informed view of the "on-the-ground" reality
and not swallow so much of this admistrations shit, it IS toxic.

[ramadoss]

99. Follow the insurgents

Yes, the best thing would have been to follow the advice of the insurgents and refuse to vote in the first free democratic vote these people have ever had. That would mean the insurgents win and fighting would continue but this time the insurgents would have a huge win on their side. It would help gather support for their cause and casualties would just increase with no end at all in sight for our occupation in Iraq.

Why is it so hard to accept that the elections went pretty well. I don't get why this is such a bad thing to have happen.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

102. I have a solution to the "uselessness" of the UN.

How about the empty skin-bag in the WH takes all of the weapons in his arsenal and GIVE them to the UN to help them in their lack of "effective" debating points.

[Theres-a]

118. "free democratic vote"

rrrrrrrrrrright.

[Skittles]

17. LOL

ramadoss, stop believing what they tell you

[ramadoss]

19. thanks

for the advice but I don't blindly believe what I am told. I come to my own conclusions.

[Stirk]

23. You must be a goddamn psychic then.

Because all your conclusions match the Fox News crawlers.

[ramadoss]

25. and that means?

I don't watch Fox news so I have no idea what they have said about it. Just because Fox news says it, should I automatically have to disagree?

[Stirk]

29. I'll tell you what it means.

You've got a head full of talking points and slogans.

[ramadoss]

35. huh?

What? I must be missing something here.

[Stirk]

48. Apparently so.

Good luck finding it.

[Skittles]

24. your conclusions suck

an election held during an occupation cannot be considered legitimate, let alone "successful". Plus are we to believe that republicans, who don't give a DAMN about voting rights for a lot of Americans, give a shit about voing rights for FOREIGNERS? You need to pull your head out - fast.

[ramadoss]

28. why not

Why can it not be considered legitimate? What voting rights do Americans not have?

[Skittles]

30. take it somewhere else

I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with you

[ramadoss]

36. sorry

I didn't mean to be a waste of time. I'll look forward to a good debate with you when you have the time.

[Skittles]

39. we are not here to debate people brainwashed by the corporate media

read the rules

[ramadoss]

46. I'm not

I have stated several times now that I don't watch the evil FOX news. I get info from numerous sources and come to my own conclusions. I read the rules and understand them. I have maintained composure and attempted civil debate.

[Skittles]

47. there are plenty of other places for people who think like you

take it there where I'm sure you will be appreciated. We come here to get away from people who tell us to accept bush and suck it up for the next four years

[ramadoss]

52. OK?

So, you are not allowed to disagree with stuff posted here?

[Skittles]

56. good BYE

nt

[ramadoss]

59. Guess not

What now?

[ghostsofgiants]

105. Well...

The United States don't have an independed commission that oversees elections uniformly throughout the nation. That's pretty key. Though I don't think that's just a republican thing.

[Stirk]

22. I think someone's been drinking Kool-Aid.

[Skittles]

31. FOX kool-aid

no matter how many times I see and read it it never fails to boggle my mind

[ramadoss]

38. I Don't Watch Fox News

I Don't Watch FOX News!

[Skittles]

43. you are getting bad info somewhere

nt

[cags]

111. Um, Its 60% of registered voters not the population

How many do you think even registered

[thebigidea]

16. "move forward"? Textbook Karen Hughes meaningless lingo.

what the hell does that mean, even? Move forward?

if parts of country voting for mystery candidates in mystery locations with suicide bombers going off here and there is a success in your mind, what the fuck does "move forward" constitute?

"our image with the rest of the world should improve"

yeah, good luck getting repairing the image of Abu America with a few blue thumb photo-ops.

"he does somehow manage to get things done. "

yeah, blowing the surplus, blowing apart countless thousands of children, maiming young men for life.

can't wait to see what he does in round two. oh boy!

[ramadoss]

21. hmmm

I'm sure you can figure out what move forward means if you think about it real hard.

The suicide bombers were not very successful in their attempts. Very few deaths compared to the threats they were making. People were not scared away. They failed.

Our image should improve. Tons of people all over the world were expecting failure or at least a struggle to get this election to go smoothly. It went smooth with very little trouble and I think that surprised a lot of people. The US image should improve because of this.

Bush does get things done. You may disagree with most or all of his policies as I do but for how stupid he comes off, he sure does accomplish a lot. Just remember, whatever Bush does can be undone later. This is a democracy and I believe in the structure of our government. Balance of powers and such. We are stuck with him for four more years. Accept it, keep a positive outlook instead of being all doom and gloom Bush is an evil dictator hellbent on killing as many people as he can in the name of freedom.

[thebigidea]

27. you don't get to "undo" 100k deaths, this isn't a video game

you can continue playing this glorious, positive game for as long as you can stand it, though. Have fun in positiveland, where Bushes get things done and Allawis mean democracy.

Did his "Mission Accomplished" on the carrier get you this excited too? It gave your precious little Boyking what appeared to be either an erection or a Elizabethan codpiece.

[ramadoss]

34. no we can't

We can try and help ensure 100k more people don't die. Hopefully we won't ever have to go back once we leave and hopefully they will be a true democratic government devoid of the oppressive tactics that seem so common.

[thebigidea]

37. where did you get the impression that we were leaving?

senior officers say 10 years. they are building permanent military bases...

OBL antics made the Boyking creep out of Saudi Arabia in the middle of the night - we NEED those bases in the ME as uh, a bulwark of freedom and stuff.

Listen, its ok to shovel this horseshit during an election year - people expect that. But don't insult our intelligence with this drivel now... once you start believing your own PR, you run into problems.

If Wolfowitz ever mingles with the plebes, ask him about that.

[ramadoss]

42. link

you got a link for this 10 years and permanent bases thing?

[thebigidea]

49. yeah, its a link to the real world

... you may find it slightly more accurate than the stuff Brit Hume peddles. Although not generally available from one source, the Real World(TM) can be found in bits and pieces of the major non-Murdoch networks, our better newspapers, between the lines of Pentagon documents, in the foreign press, and whenever explicitly denied by Bush Administration flacks.

Try some today!

[ramadoss]

58. basically

So you came up with this from reading all the various sources you mentioned. Did any of those sources specifically mention 10 years or permanent bases were definate? If so, I'd like to see cause I haven't heard anything about either yet. Point me in the right direction please.

[thebigidea]

60. the other poster gave you a link, you could care less. stop pretending

If I thought you were the least bit serious I would attempt to be as well.

So if you don't watch FOX, where DO you get your news from, hmmm?

[ramadoss]

61. I am serious

I usually read through several different articles on the same situation I find on google news.

[thebigidea]

62. so you know how to use google, then? HINT: use it, then.

go read his link, search around for more information. Then see how you feel about this moving forward business.

[drhilarius]

65. Re: 10 years

<http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-06-18-iraqtroop-usat_x.htm>

[Lone_Star_Dem]

53. Please, please, please....

Read the link provided above. There will be a test later so pay attention.

When you finish with the primer I have many more advanced links for you, but first you have to show a willingness to learn.



Knowledge is the path to enlightenment. :)

Run along now... reality awaits you. :hi:

[ramadoss]

63. I read it

OMG, that opened my eyes to the truth.

[ramadoss]

64. seriously

Even in the article they said this is only a possibility, they have no hard conclusive evidence to prove it. Only speculation. Surely it's something to keep an eye on for now and see what happens next.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

67. Do you spend $10 million on a permanent military communications system

If you plan on going home soon? Not likely. Did you read the article in the sun? It's very informative.

Here's a snip for you pertaining to the communications system.

“This new effort will support tens of thousands of troops in multiple sites throughout a region the size of the state of Texas,” said vice director for the Navy’s command, control, communications, and computer systems, Rear Admiral Nancy Brown. (New York Sun)


"According to experts as well as some Pentagon officials, the new investments indicate that there will at least be some level of American forces in Iraq for several years to come."

These forces need bases, even if it's not PC to admit it.

[thebigidea]

69. yet you swallow bullshit speculation about the oil for food "scandal" ok..

and in case you can't be bothered to check that other link above, chew on this speculation:

U.S. troops may be in Iraq for 10 years
By Tom Squitieri, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — Two top U.S. defense officials signaled Congress on Wednesday that U.S. forces might remain in Iraq for as long as a decade and that permanent facilities need to be built to house them there.

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Marine Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, gave no explicit estimates for the time U.S. forces would stay in Iraq, but they did not dispute members of Congress who said the deployment could last a decade or more. The comments were among the most explicit acknowledgements yet from the Bush administration that the U.S. presence in Iraq will be long, arduous, costly and a strain on the military.

[ramadoss]

72. That's sad

Still says might remain so I'm gonna keep my hopes up till I hear a definate on this. Communications towers make perfect sense even if we are only there another year. Improving the speed and efficiency of communications will only help our troops provide services for the Iraqi's as well as improve safety.

[thebigidea]

73. are you saying the majestic, allknowing Gen. Pace is wrong?

why aren't you supporting our troops? I'd say he knows more about the situation than you do, yes?

why do you hate our troops so much?

as far as the services they provide to the Iraqi people - uh, which would those be? the electricity, water, and sewage that still doesn't work even though it was promised to be operational by summer of 2003?

or the molestation services offered in Saddam's still operational torture prisons?

[ramadoss]

74. What?

I don't hate the troops and yes the General could be wrong even though he knows more about the situation than I do.

[thebigidea]

75. well, you do want to keep them thousands of miles away for a total lie

I'd say that if not hate, that adds up to at least mild disgust.

Why do you want them trudging around some awful desert on the other side of the planet for?

shouldn't they be protecting us at home or actually hunting down Osama Bin Laden?

[ramadoss]

77. no

WTF? I want them to come home. With the successful elections our troops have a higher chance of coming home sooner and safer than if the elections completely failed. I don't know who's ass you pulled that other crap from or how in the hell you deduced that from my posts but WTF?!

[thebigidea]

78. where are you getting this elections = troops come home sooner stuff?

I don't recall any one at all saying that. Give me a source for that, because it sounds like wishful thinking fantasyland talk to me. Jst a few posts up, there are two of the highest ranking Pentagon slugs croaking about a decade... nothing about bringing troops home soon.

Oh, and I pulled it out of the same rancid ass you snagged that "moving forward" excretia from.

[ramadoss]

79. my ass

My ass is actually a pit of enlightenment.

Seriously though. Can you honestly tell me we would be out sooner if the elections had failed? Those pentagon slugs made those comments prior to the election.

[thebigidea]

80. the elections are irrelevant to DOD's plans in that region

it doesn't matter what face we put on the puppet government, what matters is permanent bases to keep the rest of the ME in line and to provide support for a longterm project to "Change the face of the middle east."

You've heard mr. get things done rave about that, yes? well, if he says what he means and means what he says like they always tell us - doesn't that mean that well, he MEANS IT?

If the elections fail, succeed, what does it matter? Especially if you can control reporter access to locations in Iraq and thus control perceptions. Fail, succeed, what's the difference?

What's failure?

500 dying?

what's success?

499 dying?

Anyway, I hope you have a lot of fun over the course of the next year spouting the party line about how we need to "move forward" in Iran and free those oppressed people...

and who knows, all your empty talk might translate into joining the service yourself to help spread the noble gift of freedom all over the Middle East like the clap.

a good night to you, and a good night to all those that still hunger for the kind of liberty that comes attached to permanent military occupation, power shortages, and constant bombing. May God continue to Bless America.

[tishaLA]

81. don't bother, thebigidea

it's not worth the keystrokes.

[thebigidea]

82. oh, but its fun and I couldn't sleep tonight anyway.

plus its very amusing to occasionally throw a curveball and confuse 'em.

[ramadoss]

85. I dunno

Nobody has confused me yet except one guy who I couldn't quite figure out WTF he was trying to say.

[SammyWinstonJack]

109. It certainly isn't

But I would like to know what bush** has "managed to get done"? Positive that is. Perhaps this poster could enlighten us? :shrug:

[ramadoss]

83. Iran, no

We shouldn't touch Iran. We should support a revolution in Iran. The younger population especially, hates the government. Support them in an attempt at overthrowing it and setting up a democracy. No US occupation is necessary, just financial support and discussions.

[thebigidea]

86. and wouldn't that count as "touching"?

and wouldn't special forces crawling around Iran to scope out targets count as "touching"?

you may not be on board with it now, but you will be by summer. mark my words, dear sir...

[ramadoss]

89. Huh

By the summer I will agree to an invasion on Iran. What makes you say that? It's called information collecting or spying when you have people secretly enter a country to gather information.

[thebigidea]

92. well, judging by your incredible ability to absorb prior bullshit...

... I merely make an educated guess that the virtuoso propaganda campaign will wear you down after a few weeks and you'll be singing the same song too.

It'll be for their own good, of course. Those Iranian kids REALLY want freedom. Only money and information isn't enough... they want Americans to do it for them, only America spreads freedom. Look at the raging success that is Iraq and Afghanistan - wouldn't it be CRIMINAL to deprive Iran of a similar election?

How could you be so cruel, to deprive those Iranians of staggeringly successful elections?

Why, the neocons say that just a few surgical strikes would cause the people to rise up. They've never been wrong before, right?

See, its pretty easy. But we don't have to rush things - just wait for that feeling of looming dread and inevitability.

[ramadoss]

94. continue

believe what you will about me and my views and what will become of them. You have judged me wrong though.

[thebigidea]

95. so why do the Iraqis get freedom but not those enslaved in Iran?

you've rambled on about how fabulous the elections were in Iraq - why deprive Iran of the same blessing?

Surely all those suffering yearn for the liberty that only America can rain down on them.

[ramadoss]

97. Iran

We had already entered Iraq. Pulling out without helping setup some type of stability would have been disastrous. I support the elections and the future stabilization of Iraq. I hope that's the outcome. I do not support going into Iran. We do not need to. Change is already in motion there. Young people got a hint of freedom and it was taken away. Support them, help them create a new government for Iran. Support them financially and allow them to free themselves from the oppressive government. That's what the US did in it's revolution. Even the US needed support from outside nations to have a successful revolution.

[thebigidea]

98. and if that isn't enough?

how can we close the sale?

what if I told you Iran had nuclear weapons and was a threat to our national security.

what if I told you that the Iranian clerics have connections with Al-Qaeda.

after 9-11, can we allow a world with Islamists with nuclear weapons technology and connections to terrorists?

can the world wait for a bunch of college students to overthrow a tyrannical regime?

what if we waited to invade Iraq? all those people would still be chained, enslaved, unable to vote into a slightly comical election.

[ramadoss]

100. I gave mine

I gave my suggestion. If it fails we will have to try something else or just leave them alone. What do you suggest?

Iran having nuclear weapons is a concern. Should we go in bombing? I don't think so. Talking to and understanding the people you are dealing with is the best way. Something Bush has been incapable of doing so far.

After 9/11 I think we can. Provided we keep open talks with them.

I think the world can wait. Time is something we have plenty of.

If we didn't invade Iraq, that would be exactly what you and most everyone else one here wanted. I wish it were done differently but it wasn't and we now have to deal with it.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

101. "My ass is actually a pit of enlightenment. "

You got that right!!!

All you are familiar with is SHIT.

[ramadoss]

103. HAHA

Good one guy. You got my number.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

107. Something else to chuckle about....

Any chance you are familiar with a song by J. Hendrix called Voodoo Child?

At any rate; there is a line in that tune that goes:

"Well I'm standin next to a mountain, chop it down with the edge of my hand."

Now picture a government as the "mountain"

Now picture an evil government likewise.

NOW picture WHOSE hand might be involved.

Whose hand I know it to be, is was what gives me great joy and mirth.

[Skittles]

41. LOL

have you read the PATRIOT ACT?

[ramadoss]

44. yes

yes, why?

[Skittles]

45. you wouldn't say stupid shit about "oppressive tactics" overseas

if you read that piece of domestic shit

heard of Abu Grahib? Guantanamo?

[ramadoss]

50. sure

I think the Patriot act is a horrible thing that was almost forced through after 9/11. What does Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo have to do with Iraqi elections. We have tried and sentenced one soldier so far and although I believe those scandals went higher up than the peons working the cells we are addressing the situation and policy on treatment of prisoners has changed.

[thebigidea]

54. ha!

"and policy on treatment of prisoners has changed. "

no it hasn't. doctor "Get things done" rice pressured the congress into ammending a bill allowing the CIA to do whatever the fuck it wants with prisoners overseas, basically.

[Skittles]

55. Abu and Guantanomo have to do with OPPRESSIVE TACTICS

try to stick with the program - and sentencing soldiers doesn't do SHIT - that bastard RUMSFELD and our soon-to-be ATTORNEY GENERAL should be JAILED for that shit.

[AZCat]

57. Bush is addressing the situation...

By appointing a "pro-torture" Attorney General.

[thebigidea]

84. if you read the Patriot Act, I'm Foster Brooks.

hint: i'm not.

[Skittles]

108. LOL, I didn't buy it either, tbi

alas, I actually DID read the damn thing - for hours. I'm obsessed that way. :o

[Skittles]

33. understand THIS

I will never, EVER accept that incompetent, lying, thieving piece of GARBAGE as my PRESIDENT. Not now, NOT EVER.

[rman]

87. But he is pandering to the reli-fundies,

he is going along with the neocon's plan for global domination,
he is wrecking the economy and social services, he's ignoring international treaties left and right, and undermining civil rights in the US.

And the Iraqi elections... you mean you actually believe the mainstream media?

There was no voting at all in major parts of the country,
many polling places were closed mainly in in Sunni areas.

Not to mention the fact that Iraq is a war zone. It's like the Germans holding elections in occupied France during WW2.

The 70% turnout already has been adjusted to 50%, then 30%.

One thing is certain though: of course the election will be presented by the mass media as a success.

In short: he is that bad.

[Kahuna]

88. ..."manages to get things done?????..." You should really check

out bush's real life accomplishments. Everything in his life that he has ever touched has turned to crap! That includes America. As an American, I kinda have a problem with us invading a defenseless country that has never done anything to us under false pretenses. That doesn't make me proud to be an American.

[ramadoss]

91. I don't agree either

That doesn't mean I can't support getting the fuck out of there as quick as possible and causing the least amount of additional trouble while doing it. Since we are in there and that can't be changed, help get us out. Don't just sit on your hands grumbling about Bush. Think for yourself, what would be a good thing to see in Iraq that would help the people and could possibly help get us out sooner.

[rman]

110. so, how does that amount to "He's not that bad"?

and what makes you think people here do not think for themselves?

[Mr_Spock]

116. The Republicans at work say the exact same things as you just did.

Lots of excuse making, lots of disagreement - but always give the idiot the benefit of the doubt. That's an awful charitable interpretation of the lying war criminal...

[Swamp Rat]

8. I agree

:D

[Lone_Star_Dem]

12. Ohh, have I got some fun reading for you...

The Seattle Weekly article (below) is actually a pretty good (but long) read.

http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0449/041208_news_antichrist.php


Here's a little piece by Wayne Madsden.
"Madsen contends that "Bush is a dangerous right-wing ideologue who couples his political fanaticism with a neo-Christian blood cult."

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKY/is_9_27/ai_108881880


Here's a way over the top website that is handy to scare off fundies who somehow get your email addy.

http://www.bushisantichrist.com/

[mordarlar]

14. I am a Christian spiritually but i see Revelations as almost over....

There is a great on line book that goes through each of the things listed as they have happened historically. I will post a link in case anyone wishes to take a peek. I do not stand by everything he says but a lot of it is very compelling.

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/revdir.htm

[Hissyspit]

51. Revelations Probably Doesn't Even Belong In The Bible

"John" (whoever wrote 'Revelations') was talking about current events in the 1st century, more than likely.

[mordarlar]

104. There are a lot of people who think that. And they may be right.

I just stated my own beliefs. ; )

[Art_from_Ark]

121. Current events? What current events

occurring in John's day could possibly match what was described in Revelation?

On the other hand, if you were to show a modern war movie (or film footage from Iraq, etc.) to a primitive writer from the 1st century, how would he describe it?

[Mr_Spock]

114. I totally agree with you

He is our worst president even and is most likely to destroy our country. Lets all pray that we can survive the next four years...

[leftofthedial]

115. the fundies are part of what makes him antichrist-like

their ignorance, total lack of a sense of irony, gullibility, bigotry and zealousness have made them the unwitting villains in their own mythology.


It's amazing.