Whither Feminism?

[Modem Butterfly]

I've always considered myself a feminist, in the sense that I believe women should have equal treatment and equal consideration under the law, and that women should work together to achieve that goal. But about the time I was in college, I noticed that a number of women had started shying away from the term "feminist", or used it but with qualifiers such as "Well, I'm not a feminazi, but I do think that date rape should be prosecutable," or "I think that women should have the right to choose abortion or not, but I'm not some sort of feminist or anything,"

Lately, I've noticed that younger women (by that, I mean mid-20's and younger) have started using the term "feminist" as almost an insult, and seem to rarely use it to describe themselves. I asked a couple of young women about it in a Yoga class I'm taking, "Do you consider yourself a feminist" and "What is a 'feminist'". Their answers surprised me. Essentially, these young women had really bought into the right-wing stereotype of feminism and considered the concept to be of no use, and possible impediment, to women today.

So I'm wondering from DU- what do you think a feminist is? How should feminism meet today's needs? Is feminism simply an anachronism?

[SarahB]

1. The right has co-opted language.

It's a part of their strategy to marginalize thought. Not necessarily as one, concentrated effort from a particular source, but again and again over time, it becomes more powerful. Most people don't make the additional effort to see anything beyond what is fed to them from a narrow perspective. It's pretty sad.

[Bunny]

3. They have co-opted the language, and the concept.

A feminist is now a castrating, ball-crushing bitch who is almost certainly too ugly to ever get a man, and is therefore bitter and hates ALL men. That's the gospel the RW has preached, and, as you said, too few people make the additional effort to learn more about it.

I mean, who wants to be seen as a castrating, ball-crushing, bitter ugly-ass bitch? Not many. But who favors equal pay for equal work, and other traditionally feminist positions? Lots of folks, but don't you dare call them feminists! It is indeed sad.

[TWiley]

21. And, they have poured the fires of Religious HELL on it.

This is the core of the problem I feel. The bushtapo has employed (literally through faith based initiates) the Neo-Christians to wage a holy war against unsubmissive females. Any perceived threat to a paternalistic society will bring the fundamentalists out with their pitch-forks by the pick-up truck load.

It is also true that Gloria Steinem spewed contempt for men. I am of that generation, and I remember being called a "chauvinist pig" quite frequently if I dared to show any courtesy.

Gloria was actually a right wing FBI operative BTW. Research her name in the "Encyclopedia Britannica's Book of the Year" from 1966 to 1972, and you will find one (I cannot remember which) that tells about her experience as an FBI operative and how she "infiltrated" the feminist "Red Stockings Group" in Maine (?), and again in Chicago when she went undercover as a Playboy Bunny.

I have often considered her to be one of those who steered the movement right into the lap of fundamentalism, and helped define it as something that needed to be destroyed by them.

[veteran_for_peace]

2. Meet it head on!!

I am a father of three daughter who are militant feminist. They have as their idols Alice Paul, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and Susan B. Anthony. Their are young girls who are willing to take a stand for equal rights for women. I think that women are masters of communication and it takes the more experience women to mentor the younger ones.

[the_outsider]

4. It's just like "liberal" which is also a bad word now

It's a very clever strategy and it's definitely working. They could not attack progressive ideals emerging in 60s and 70s. So they attack the words which stand for those ideals hoping that if they can somehow denigrate the words, the humane and progressive ideals represented by them will become less popular. Of course it works only because of corporate monopoly over mass media which is the only source of information for most of the people. "Liberal", "welfare state", "welfare mom", "feminazi" were all dirtied to start a cheap fight against the ideals that threaten their profits and power.

As to what it means, dictionary meaning still works for me -

"the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes"

[Modem Butterfly]

7. We need to take back our words

We need to stand up and start using our words and restore their meaning. Controlling the vocabulary is framing the debate. We need to stand our ground and take back our terms.

[AnnInLa]

5. I too find it absolutely amazing that young women

are voluntarily giving up rights for which women fought so actively and so long. Part of the reason is the younger women were born into an age in which they already had those rights, so just took them for granted. I guess that, unless we are very vigilent, any rights can be eroded from without and from within. And, of course, since our society promotes the rewards of femininity/appearance/youth instead of feminism, our young girls have bought into it. Sad. ((I taught my daughter to value her rights as a woman, and am now working on my 5-year old granddaughter....maybe that's the way to do it?))

[veteran_for_peace]

6. I think that is it

We have to teach the children one at a time. We will never control the media but we can start the revolution at a ground level.

[antigone382]

8. I am a twenty-year-old feminist.

And I'm proud to admit that. But even I find myself using qualifiers like "well, I don't hate men or anything..."

I'm not afraid to stand up and point out inequalities and injustices toward women in America, as well as to defend my rights. But at the same time, I know I'm going to face the indignation and disgust of a lot of people to do just that.

The funny thing is, until recently, I never would have called myself a feminist. I never really noticed just how backward things really were (are) until about a year ago, after I was hit by my father during an argument (I haven't spoken to him since). It was like a wake up call.

[eridani]

19. Have you noticed how the MSM talks about 'Bush hating"

as a serious problem that Dems have to face? See any parallel between that and 'manhating'? What do women ever do to men that is equivalent to rape, and what have Dems ever done to Rethugs lately that resembles in any way what Rethugs did to Clinton?

[antigone382]

22. What it means is "Status Quo Hating."

For example: I don't like the way things are. I don't like that it's 2005 and I can't go to a party without watching my drink the whole time, because there are men out there who feel completely justified in viewing my body as something that doesn't really belong to me. I think that a lot of men don't understand how frustrating and exhausting it is that, as woman, we must remain aware at all times that we are possibly being hunted. Everywhere we go, we have to watch everyone around us, because there are men out there who will use whatever means possible; drugs, deceit, or plain old brute strength, to take advantage of us. Pay attention, or pay the consequences. And what happens if we do let down our guard and fall prey to the tactics of a rapist or sexual predator? We can report it and face the onslought of disbelief and counter-accusations of vindictiveness, insanity, or greed; the humiliating exposure of our every sexual act prior to the incident; the casual observation at we were "asking for it," because of the way we dressed or the words we said or what time of night it was--or, we can keep it to ourselves, in which case we obviously have a pathological fixation with being the victim, and therefore deserved it as well.

This is just one major problem facing women and yes, I'm frustrated by it. I might even say I'm f*cking angry. I know that most men are not predators, and the ones that are are severely disturbed individuals; however, I still view violence against women as a symptom of a society that values us as little more than talking sex toys. But if I complain too loudly or too often, or if I suggest a little too forcefully that maybe we as a society need to put a little less emphasis on tits and ass, and a little more emphasis on giving women some respect and dignity (and I'm talking about something a little deeper than freaking out over Janet Jackson's exposed breast...a change in attitude, perhaps?), I am obviously a rabid feminazi who must be either a man-hating lesbian, a bitter, ugly b*tch, or a frigid prude.

[earth mom]

9. I consider myself a middle aged feminist

though I've never been militant about it. But it does influence and effect the way I live my life and how I view the world.

And you're right-younger women don't seem to worry at all about womens rights. These days, I'm surprised, saddened and horrified to see so many of them sell themselves so short and allow themselves to be objectified. Many of them think they can have it both ways-be utterly feminine wearing skimpy clothes, yet a powerhouse in the workplace while wearing said skimpy clothes. Just look at the first 2 seasons on the show "The Apprentice" many of the women on these shows tried and often succeeded in using their feminine allure to sell the product. Though it was frowned upon by The Donald and his executive employee Carolyn and me too-lol!

[Igel]

10. In the Czech Republic, 1993,

feminists had a bad rap. No repubs around. But lots of Americans who insisted that it was wrong for women to take the traditional last names, etc., etc. Many focused on trivial superficialities, instead of equal opportunities in education and employment.

Newspapers were full of editorials and LTTE. Mostly against. But then, the Americans that thought of Prague as the French Bank of the 1990s royally pissed of the indigenous population.

Many Czech women rejected being preached to by patronizing westerners.

This did them a disservice.

[seabeyond]

11. i went away from the word in 20's steinman

promoted women didnt need men, (they dont, but men are fun) and men the enemy, more like a feel of denying the womanness of who we were. so i walked away from the labeling, it was compounded by the male creating feminism was a woman being less woman also.

then i grew up, and realized how i had been sucked in the male definition for their own control of women once again.

i didnt like the word liberal for the same reason. and i am not a liberal. but when repugs of late started making liberal a dirty word i started calling myself that to all that would listen. some were offended i would call myself that. those that loved me couldnt believe i would say i was a liberal. they actually see it as a dirty word. like calling myself a kkk person

[Modem Butterfly]

12. I'm curious about your use of the term "liberal"

Not to take the thread off topic, but I notice that you say that you are not a liberal. How do you define the word? And in the absence of that word, how do you define yourself?

[seabeyond]

13. if i really expressed some of my thoughts, probably

have people jumping on me. but i do appreciate you asking, made me sit here and think, exactly what i was talking. i live a conservative life, what makes me a democrat is though i do live a conservative life i dont believe in telling others what choices to make. so though i wouldnt do an abortion, i am not into telling someone else not to. i am way more conservative and controlling in what i want on our airwaves for our children during specific hours, i stick out like a sore thumb on this site. i am literally having people here telling me that if i am not embracing porn for my children i am a fundamentalist. i will stand up for anyones right to own a gun, if they break the law with the gun they go to jail. dont tell people to wear helmets or seatbelts. i wasnt into national healthcare, but the direction and power insurance has gained last 5 years, i am for it now. i am more a help people help themselves kinda gal, instead of free handouts. i would like to see more things sit up for single family or two family working ass off and get help than the 19 year old no kids doesnt want to work getting assistance. and it seems on this board the employer is the enemy. seeing how husband and father own business and i have a front view of the employers position working ass off, doing right to employees and being dissed on this site repeatedly probably makes me less the liberal.

i would consider myself moderate or independent. there are more, way more things that make me not a republican

[Modem Butterfly]

14. A conservative in the true meaning of the word

As in "to conserve".

One of my favorite colleagues at my office is an old-school Republican who voted Kerry because he's concerned about the hard-right shift the GOP has taken.

live a conservative life, what makes me a democrat is though i do live a conservative life i dont believe in telling others what choices to make. so though i wouldnt do an abortion, i am not into telling someone else not to.

Seems reasonable enough so far.

i am way more conservative and controlling in what i want on our airwaves for our children during specific hours, i stick out like a sore thumb on this site.

Well, you and I would diverge here. I think that parents should exercise the ultimate control, but then again, I'm not so sure I believe we should have public airwaves anymore.

i am literally having people here telling me that if i am not embracing porn for my children i am a fundamentalist.

I've had three people tell me I'm an example of what's wrong with the Democratic party in the last couple of weeks. Some folks just get the vapors I guess.

i will stand up for anyones right to own a gun, if they break the law with the gun they go to jail.

I grew up with guns and own a couple. I have no problem with background checks and waiting periods. If a person uses a gun to commit a crime they should lose the right to ever own a gun period.

i wasnt into national healthcare, but the direction and power insurance has gained last 5 years, i am for it now. i am more a help people help themselves kinda gal, instead of free handouts.

I'm not so sure a national health plan would be a free handout, but I get what you're saying.

i would like to see more things sit up for single family or two family working ass off and get help than the 19 year old no kids doesnt want to work getting assistance.

Here we disagree. Most 19 year olds without kids don't qualify for assistance, other than student aid, if that. But I am for an expansion of certain programs, like HeadStart, WIC and ADFAC.

and it seems on this board the employer is the enemy.

I don't know that I've seen that, but there's a lot of people here, so I won't discount your opinion.

seeing how husband and father own business and i have a front view of the employers position working ass off, doing right to employees and being dissed on this site repeatedly probably makes me less the liberal.

I don't think being pro-some employers makes anyone less of a liberal, but I do think on balance big business successes come at the expense of employees.

i would consider myself moderate or independent. there are more, way more things that make me not a republican

That's probably a pretty fair assessment. Thanks for the input!

[REP]

20. Childfree People Of Any Age Generally Get NO Assistance

Not that I am against assistance - I just don't think one should pop out a child to avoid starving on the streets to qualify for housing aid, food stamps, Medicaid, etc. Unless one is disabled or elderly, a person without children will have a hard time getting any assistance from the federal, state or local goverment, and that's just wrong.

[entanglement]

15. My take on feminism as a man

I agree with the broad principles of feminism. However, I see the following problems

1) Modern feminism focuses almost exclusively on a certain demographic, i.e. white middle-class women. Feminists would do well to realize that the interests of women vary widely depending on their race / class and acknowledge that they don't speak for all women. This might also explain the failure of feminism to spread to developing countries.

2) Too narrow a focus on 'reproductive rights' and 'self-image', almost to the exclusion of everything else. Rarely do mainstream feminists go beyond lip-service to many other issues (global justice, poverty etc).

3) While some of the right-wing stereotypes have certainly become popular, it must be remembered that the most outspoken feminists were / are also the most 'angry' ones. People remembered their anger, not their message.

4) It is a fact that feminism has lost some of its steam because women have steadily gained rights over the years. If women were to suddenly lose their right to vote / get abortions, I guarantee there would be a huge increase in the number of feminists.

[Sparkly]

16. I beg to differ

I'm a member of NOW, which is "the largest organization of feminist activists in the United States." I invite everyone to take a look at their website: http://www.now.org/. They address numerous issues of concern to all women.

As for the issue of "angry" women, I think the problem is that people have such a problem with angry women! There is nothing wrong with righteous anger, whether from women or men. However, you'll notice that when people like Kim Gandy debate rightwingers, they are *very* good at staying calm, focused, rational, not hostile, completely in control. I think that's something they're careful about because of the eagerness to portray feminists as hysterical or angry or "militant."

[eridani]

18. The same folks who don't like 'angry' women--

--are the same people who don't like 'angry' Democrats. Funny how that works.

Someone who rejects 'feminist' as a political term is just another DLC wussy coward.

[wadestock]

17. It will wither a quantum leap after they DESTROY Hillary

Be careful to note the the RW is moving carefully to promote Hillary as the next president...for the sole purpose of eventually demonizing her.

She will lose in all her attempts because the country is simply not prepared for anything which makes sense.

The public has been primed to love throwing people under the bus.
Women will suffer a significant setback in the process.

It is really quite a shame because I believe that the core beliefs of women, if brought to the forefront, could most effectly counter the insidious forces which have emerged in our society which seem to worship the bottom line over everything else....including our own security.