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Emboldened Chimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:29 PM
Original message
We got duped
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 12:29 PM by Emboldened Chimp
Once again, the political machinery of the * Administration outflanked us. All we've heard the past few weeks was how bad the violence was going to be, how Iraqi turnout was in question, how much of a disaster this was going to be, et al. In other words, we were lured into believing this was going to be a mess, but the reality is it wasn't so bad. There was violence, but there was also a huge voter turnout. Even if the numbers are inflated (and I have no doubt they are), Chimpy and his Gang of Thugs will use this number to prop themselves and bolster their foreign policy aims. So successful they'll make this appear to be, that they will then use it as a shining example for the Middle East and attempt to 'liberate' another country from an oppressive regime, like Iran.

These guys are adept at making us believe that all will be a disaster, but when the reality shows itself to be not-that-bad, they look better in the aftermath than they deserve. Sun Tzu said that all war is deception. Rove and * run their campaigns like a war, and run the government like a campaign. One of the first rules in Art of War is to appear incompetent when you truly are competent. I think Chimpy and his Gang have led us believe they're incompetent when they truly are competent since the day they stole office.

We was duped.
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Pam-Moby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. You maybe correct...time will tell all. n/t
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yup. I keep sayin' they ain't stupid - they're criminal masterminds.
Glad to see someone else is ready to go into battle fully armored against these hateful freaks.

NGU.


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Borgnine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree.
The media hyping this the way it is along with Bush leads me to believe they're going to use this to give the illusion the war is over, we "kicked ass," and we need to go into Iran to do the same thing.

And you know? The shit-for-brains public will fall for it like they always do.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I agree they will attempt to USE this!
I am NOT so sure America will acquiesce to this plan!
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. Do you really think that if the Iraq elections were a miserable failure,
you would hear about it. The Free Press was going to report it a success no matter what the outcome.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. So Right! When it is known the press had US "minders" and didn't bother
to print that little fact when they reported on the Bush coronation, you know they will not print anything negative ever again--- unless they are told to do so.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. You do realize they are INCLUDING the voter turnout inside the US and
other countries, right? those numbers are HUGELY inflated because of those that are voting outside of the country. Don't believe what you hear. THIS was NOT a success. The coming days, weeks, and months will PROVE it!
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. But only 10% of the expats here voted
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. The key here is ex-pats DO NOT live on Iraqi soil AND the likelihood that
they will EVER return is slim to none. I happen to know quite a few Kurdish ex-pats, many of whom are Iraqi "freedom fighters." The fact is they will NEVER return to Iraq and this "election" is NOT legitimate. It is a farce of major proportions.

The goal is to mislead the worldwide public into believing the coming "Iranian invasion" into this "bush democracy."

My God, now that we've installed "freedom" in Iraq we can't just let the Iranians run amok with their newly freed neighbors! We must fight them off for the sake of democracies everywhere! Draft to follow, WW-III begins!

Wait and see. I'm not fooled for one minute. Iran is NEXT!
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Yes, I believe you are quite correct
The "fire of freedom" will soon be scorching Iran, Syria, Lebanon, perhaps even Egypt and Jordan.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. And, what percentage of the Iraqi population was kept from voting
because the area they live in is not stable enough? ANY election which excludes ANY portion of the population is NOT legitimate therefore it is NOT a SUCCESS.

Cherry picking areas/populations allowed to participate in elections is NOT democracy. It is fraud... again.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. Where are you getting this assertion that there was "huge voter turnout?"
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Emboldened Chimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. That's the perception we're getting
Read my post again: I said the numbers are probably inflated. But that doesn't matter, because they'll claim victory anyway, therefore that's how it will be perceived.

And I'm not talking about turnout per se, but violence and the perception that this was going to be a disaster. That meme was pumped out for weeks and when the day finally came, it turned out that the election wasn't a disaster--whether that's the truth or the result of propaganda remains to be seen. The point is that they allowed the disaster meme to go out there, then when the vote came in they managed the information so that it looks like a success. That is certainly done by design.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. If a bomb blows up and there's no reporter to hear it
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 12:51 PM by Ms. Clio
Did the violence occur, or not?

If the numbers are hugely inflated, why should we believe that the news about violence is not being deliberately suppressed?
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. said so on cnn just now n/t
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Ah--so it must be true! n/t


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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. What numbers are you hearing?
Because I heard anywhere from 52 - 75% of REGISTERED voters in Iraq voted. Well, only about 10% of Iraqis were even REGISTERED to vote. Which means those numbers are pretty pathetic after all.

And it doesn't matter, this election was never anything but a sham anyway.

Shame on bushco for getting those few Iraqis who did vote to risk their lives for a sham vote.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Don't bother yourself with reality. Reality these days is whatever
BushCo says it is.

Gah! We need to take our media back.
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TR Fan Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Again, this 10% number is a myth...
See here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41044-20...

<snip>...
Because Iraqis do not have to take any steps to register to vote -- food rationing accounts serve as voter rolls -- requests for corrections are essentially the only gauge of voter involvement in the registration process for the Jan. 30 election.
...<snip>

Additionally, various news agencies, including CNN and BBC, are reporting between 8-14 million voters, and given a total population of approximately 25 million, the percentages reported (around 60%) seem fairly accurate.

Population link:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.ht...
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. Here is the Horses Mouth so to speak
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. As Expected - Kurds And Shia Vote - Sunnis Are No-Shows
Hardly a rousing success.
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maxudargo Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. There were always two possibilities
1. Elections and other steps toward establishing democratic institutions would be thwarted by chaos and violence, leaving the country to disintegrate toward civil war, and thus destabilizing the whole region.

2. Elections and other steps toward establishing democratic institutions would succeed despite the insurgency, empowering the Shiites and creating a Shiite-dominated state which will be allied with Iran, while alienating the Sunnis and Kurds, who will escalate their violent resistance to the new Shiite state, driving the Kurds toward seccession and the Shiites toward closer ties with Iran, while the Sunnis continue to fill the ranks of international terrorists networks, leaving the country to disintegrate toward civil war, and thus destabilizing the whole region.


These elections are just part of the ongoing effort of the Bush administration to overwhelm reality with banalities. Freedom is on the march and democracy has come to Iraq, and the true complexities of what is really going on there are irrelevant. The faith-based approach to history is only going to work for so long, and reality will assert itself at some point.

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. We keep falling for the 'low expectations' trick.
They have been using this since bush* first debated President Gore.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. Perhaps the sheeple were duped. I wasn't. There was NO ELECTION IN IRAQ!
Walt Starr has a great frame (paraphrase): "how much did the Bush Administration pay the corporate media to say that." Just add your favorite media pundit and requisite subject.

So, how much is O'Reilly being paid to say the words "Iraq" and "election" in the same sentence, over and over, ad infinitum? I wonder what "percentage" each pundit gets paid to tell the "Iraqi Election" fable? Does Bush&Co get royalties since they invented the story?

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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
22. I do not believe the Iraqian people were duped but * plans may
have sped up the civil war option in Iraq.

:kick:
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
23. I do not believe the Iraqian people were duped but * plans may
have sped up the civil war option in Iraq.

:kick:
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
25. But the people didn't even fucking know who they were voting for
That's not an election, that's a show.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
28. Hooray!!! The Iraqi People are FREE!!!!
Historic Elections have occurred with a HUGE percentage of the registered voters !!!!

Condo Rice has Trained and equiped 140,000 Iraqi Policemen.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!!

Now give the Iraqi People
THEIR Oil and THEIR COUNTRY,
AND BRING OUR TROOPS HOME!!!!
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
29. Yes, now we will live happily ever after!
Let's have a big parade when all our boys and girls all come home!

Um, wait. They're not coming home...

I like to think people here in the United States are going to notice that.

Your post, "We got duped," is just a back-handed way of saying Bush has some credibility. He doesn't. This is "Mission Accomplished" all over again.

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KeireG Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Oh boy...
the regime absolutely hyped up the threat of violence, and now they've come out of this looking like saints. I'm just glad the elections are over, because now public pressure to withdraw troops is going to increase.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
31. The real problem is that we can't trust the media anymore.
This might have been a wonderful day in Iraq . . . or not. I hope time will tell, but with talking heads being paid by the administration, we may never know for sure. In any case, at this point, I say we pull a George Aiken: declare victory and bring everyone home.
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