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Here it is..official PNAC request for the DRAFT.

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:11 PM
Original message
Here it is..official PNAC request for the DRAFT.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/defense-20050128.htm
Dated January 28, 2005.
Make no mistake, this PNAC letter is requesting congress
to authorize an active draft of our young people for military
service.
Excerpt:
"So we write to ask you and your colleagues in
the legislative branch to take the steps necessary
to increase substantially the size of the active
duty Army and Marine Corps. While estimates
vary about just how large an increase is required,
and Congress will make its own determination as
to size and structure, it is our judgment that we
should aim for an increase in the active duty
Army and Marine Corps, together, of at least
25,000 troops each year over the next several
years.

There is abundant evidence that the demands of
the ongoing missions in the greater Middle East,
along with our continuing defense and alliance
commitments elsewhere in the world, are close
to exhausting current U.S. ground forces. For
example, just late last month, Lieutenant General
James Helmly, chief of the Army Reserve,
reported that "overuse" in Iraq and Afghanistan
could be leading to a "broken force." Yet after
almost two years in Iraq and almost three years in
Afghanistan, it should be evident that our
engagement in the greater Middle East is truly, in
Condoleezza Rice's term, a "generational
commitment." The only way to fulfill the military
aspect of this commitment is by increasing the
size of the force available to our civilian
leadership.

The administration has been reluctant to adapt
to this new reality. We understand the dangers of
continued federal deficits, and the fiscal
difficulty of increasing the number of troops. But
the defense of the United States is the first priority
of the government. This nation can afford a
robust defense posture along with a strong fiscal
posture. And we can afford both the necessary
number of ground troops and what is needed for
transformation of the military."

Now tell me what you think the implications are.
BHN
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kick
WAY too important to ignore in light of the
recent Sy Hersh "neocon cult" article.
BHN
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
92. They didn't waste any time.
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 04:54 PM by FrustratedDemInNC
I have never seen Sy Hersh sound so frightened as he described our current situation - please take a look for those who haven't seen it.

Thanks for posting this info.


http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/26/145...

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Holy Shit! You know, I expected as much, but
seeing it in writing is very creepy, as if things weren't creepy enough right now. Thanks for this, and I'll pass it on.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. The fact that it is from the PNAC
Is evidence that it is going to happen.
IF you adhere to Sy Hersh's assessment of the
power behind the "cult."
Oh my, my.
The Bushbots are about to be asked to
sacrifice THEIR kids...should be interesting from here on...
BHN

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. I sent this to my totally Repug brother
who has previously informed me a draft would never happen because 'our president' said so. And he has two sons of draft age. I look forward to his response!
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
30. I really want to hear that response, too.
Please, make sure you post it.

I'm considering printing this out and "accidentally" leaving it on the table in the breakroom at work so that several of the Freepers there (who, incidentally, all have children - males and females - nearing draft age) can take a gander at this.
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teakee Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
50. Yeah, I want my ex-husband who voted for Bush to answer, too.
Because he gets to claim the kids and got the child tax credit, and Bush said, "he would not draft anyone."

We have 2 sons, 17 and almost 19.

"I know Bush is dumb, but he will protect us and get the job done.And he cut taxes." ---stupid ex-husband. :spank:


Thank Goodness, Momma taught the kids about politics.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #50
60. How can someone dumb know HOW to protects us,
get the job done and cut taxes, properly?

Just wonderin'. ;)

BTW, the ONLY thing my ex and I agree on is politics. LOL!
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #60
138. kick PO in the (_Y_)
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Kick
This is it.
Make no mistake.
BHn
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
59. Now I'm really scared
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 12:36 AM by FreedomAngel82
cause my brother and I are draft age and we didn't vote for this crap. :\ Don't you all remember his "no draft" comment of an all volunteer army? :\ Can we use this against them?
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #59
66. No, because he initially told the truth.
In the very next breath, he told the lie and the crowd assembled cheered it.

"We will not have an all-volunteer army.........(silence ensues).........We Will! We WILL have an all volunteer army!" (cheers and applause)

That actually what he said, I just don't remember where. I think I saw it on the Daily Show....
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #66
74. And then the DLC fell for it hook, line & sinker andhad Schumer call for
And then the DLC fell for it hook, line & sinker andhad Schumer call for a draft.

Vichy Collaborators.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. Note the signature of Peter Beinhart of "The New Republic"
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 08:27 PM by Tinoire
Proclaimed January 28

Note the signatories:

Peter Beinart Jeffrey Bergner Daniel Blumenthal

Max Boot Eliot Cohen Ivo H. Daalder

Thomas Donnelly Michele Flournoy Frank F. Gaffney, Jr.

Reuel Marc Gerecht Lt. Gen. Buster C. Glosson (USAF, retired)

Bruce P. Jackson Frederick Kagan Robert Kagan

Craig Kennedy Paul Kennedy Col. Robert Killebrew (USA, retired)

William Kristol Will Marshall Clifford May

Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey (USA, retired) Daniel McKivergan

Joshua Muravchik Steven J. Nider Michael O'Hanlon

Mackubin Thomas Owens Ralph Peters Danielle Pletka

Stephen P. Rosen Major Gen. Robert H. Scales (USA, retired)

Randy Scheunemann Gary Schmitt

Walter Slocombe James B. Steinberg

===

The Previous PNAC letter, a lecture to Europe about Russia, was signed by Senator Joseph R. Biden.

Interesting to see James Steinberg again.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Oh yes, Tinoire..I noted the signatures.
They are far too hard to miss.
BHN
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. The neo-Liberal NEW REPUBLIC
The neo-Liberal NEW REPUBLIC is an awful lot along the lines of PROJECT FOR A NEW AMERICAN CENTURY. Of course we knew that, but it's good that their Editor was finally honest enough to put it in writing for us.

Read it and weep.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
77. the new republic = DLC = neoliberal = PNACers
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Nashyra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #77
82. Where do I get the button
About America calling when she get's back?
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #82
89. you can get the button here
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 03:50 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
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October Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
100. I don't like how they let the admin off the hook
In the opening paragraph they write "The administration has unfortunately resisted increasing our ground forces to the size needed to meet today's (and tomorrow's) missions and challenges."


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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. The best way to protect this country at this point is to inform and...
educate everyone you know about PNAC! They've done a remarkable job keeping it under the radar! Most Americans are not aware of PNAC and what it represents. I guarantee you this...shit would hit the fan if they did! So, yesterday on a thread we thought it would be a good idea to get the word out! Can you help?
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. The masses don't understand or care WHO the PNACers are.
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 08:27 PM by BeHereNow
Personally, I thinK it is too late.
The average 'murikkkan has no idea where
this ideology originates- nor are they willing to
take the time or effort to learn.
BHN
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. I don't believe that. I know many Kerry supporters...
who weren't aware of the PNAC. I won't argue that there are some that don't give a shit. That's true. But there are many who would if they knew. Bush supporters would crap their pants, as well. I can't adopt your attitude or I might as well give up! No offense! I respect your opinion. Peace!
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. E-mail
A Chain progressive e-mail about it. And I mean chain e-mails properly formatted with a few damning links for them to follow! n/t
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Has anyone ever told you that you are a genius? Great idea!
:toast: Beer is on me!
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Honestly?
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 08:50 PM by Tinoire
Yes but not for a long, long time. Thanks.

Let's do it! You who asked that so important question and realized what we need to do!

Check your in-box in about 3 minutes

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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
148. have one on me too
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AndrewJacksonFaction Donating Member (471 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
76. I've already started...............
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drthais Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. did you notice something about the signatures?
If you read the original PNAC document
(Home Page)
you will notice the following signatories
Feith, Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush...etc.etc
why are their names not on this document?

they have all disappeared behind the curtain
it would seem
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Orchestrated deception.
Of course their names are not there-
Bush swore to the American people that
a draft was not necessary. The demand must come
from outside the Cabal, in appearance anyway.
BHN
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Yes. I thought it was just me! And was just about to look into that
THANK YOU for confirming that.

That is extremely bizarre and illustrates how hard they're trying to obfuscate the alliance between the neoliberals who signed and the neocons.

In a way, this is good news because it means they realize we are watching them and aware of the co-habitation.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #17
68. They can't continue their agenda without poking their noses out
from time to time. When their noses poke out, they can be chopped off....
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Check google PNAC partial list and shop around! You'll be amazed!
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PaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
119. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Feith etc.
aren't actively involved in PNAC as they are government employees now. They aren't that stupid. They certainly helped craft PNAC and share most of the ideaology.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
139. Those people are now in front of the curtain. n/t
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
145. kick
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theresistance Donating Member (595 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. These people are evil and should recruit themselves
And they use as a justification the very wars that they planned!

PNAC=

Project for the Neoconservative Anti-Christs

Pathetic Neoconservatives Are Crackpots

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. They use as justification the very wars they planned
Very well and astutely put.

May I quote that?
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theresistance Donating Member (595 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Absolutely, this is really amazing stuff and
It's like a self-fulfilling prophesy. It's like before the Iraq war, the media kept asking, "is war inevitable?" and so on. There are probably other examples but I can't think of any right now.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
61. Of course their kids
wouldn't go to the draft!!
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
143. DRAFT YOUNG REPUBLICANS!!!
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. Thanks. I keep hearing this song in my head:
You say you want a revolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out

Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright, alright

You say you got a real solution
Well you know
We don't love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're doing what we can
But if you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait

Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright, alright, al...

You say you'll change the constitution
Well you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow

Don't you know know it's gonna be alright
Alright, alright

Alright, alright
Alright, alright
Alright, alright
Alright, alright


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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. This is crazy! I've been humming that song for a few days!
Peace!
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Back at you!
I think a revolution on some scale is inevitable.
I just hope it's peaceful.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. I'm feeling it, too! The natives are restless...
Have you seen The Protest Kit on Truthout/WillPittFYI? It's a great article and some really good tips, as well! Check it out if you have a moment! I'm all for a peaceful resolution. People need to keep their heads!
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. No, but I'll zip over there now.
I'm just hanging out waiting to see how things go with the "election."

Thanks.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Me too. Yikes.... n/t
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. re-instating the draft might be the death knell for bush....but,
i said that about wmd's, harkin, enron, cocaine, whiskey, d.u.i., and all the other little things like genocide and piracy regarding teflon boy.

but the draft might just get people righteously pissed.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
38. I thought tanking the economy would get people riled up enough
to rebel.
Nope. Not enough.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
24. Kick- send this to your Bushbot
family and friends.
Tell them the noecon cult has spoken.
Tell them to enlist their pasty white, manna worshipping,
ipod toting kids that they are needed by Uncle Sam.
The PNAC says so.
BHN
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ChicanoPwr Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
90. HELL NO!!
Let them suffer, I say. Let them be the ones who are on the front lines.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
147. turf war kick!
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. WWWIII - Russia is reinstituting the draft too
The Cold War warriors will have their old wish come true.

We may very soon be going to war against Russia and China who have already scheduled their first "joint excercise".

The PNAC letter right before the one about the draft is a warning to Europe that they better get on board with us and declare their alliance. That letter was signed by some prominent neo-Liberal Democrats.

Neo-liberals and Neo-conservatives pushing us to war.

Sticks and stones of the Arabs (except for Iran, the only well-armed Muslim, but not Arab, country we haven't neutralized enough) and the technologically competent forces of Russia and China.

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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. yep n/t
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Do you have a link to that story?!?!?
TOO wild!
But expected- just not so soon.
The writing is on the wall-
Wonder how the Bushbots are going to
react to foreign troops in 'murikkka?
Here we go...
BHN
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Several links about why I foresee a full-blown World War down the road
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 10:05 PM by Tinoire
It's not one story. Just my analysis.

1. The Coming Draft in the US.
Schumer, Democrat, proposes to draft in the US.

2. September 28, 2004
PNAC letter "TO to the Heads of State and Government
Of the European Union and NATO" about their belligerent attitude towards us in not rallying against Russia

http://www.newamericancentury.org/russia-20040928.htm

3. The Coming Draft in Russia: (and this is a mild article)
As students join Russian protests, concerns over stability rise
Christian Science Monitor - January 27, 2005

MOSCOW The Kremlin is backpedaling on market reforms introduced earlier this month in an effort to forestall students, police, and even soldiers from joining a growing pensioners' revolt against the cancellation of traditional benefits.

Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov pledged Tuesday to postpone until later this year plans to force students into the army, after young people rallied in several cities against the conscription system.

(snip)

Students, like many elderly Russians, are stirring over cancellation of their public transport privileges and a draft law requiring all 18-year-old males to perform military service before being allowed to go to university.

(snip)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0127/p07s01-woeu.html

4. First ever Sino-Soviet Military Excercise
Russia, China to conduct joint military drill 12/14/2004 -- 10:59(GMT+7)

Beijing (VNA) - Visiting Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov and his Chinese counterpart Cao Gangchuan on Monday agreed to conduct a first-ever joint military drill next year. The same day, State President and Chairman of China's Central Military Commission Hu Jintao and his deputy on the committee Guo Baxiong also held talks with Minister Ivanov.

Guo welcomed Russia's stance on the Taiwan issue, stressing that China will not tolerate separatist activities aimed at seeking independence for Taiwan.

(snip)

http://www.vnagency.com.vn/NewsA.asp?LANGUAGE_ID=2&CATE...

China, Russia to conduct first joint military drill
www.chinaview.cn 2004-12-14 07:28:15


Defense Minister Cao Gangchuan(R) gestures during a welcome ceremony with his visiting Russian counterpart in Beijing on December 13.



Chinese Defense Minister Cao Gangchuan (L) holds a welcome ceremony for visiting Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov in Beijing Dec. 13. China and Russia will conduct the first-ever joint military exercise next year. (Xinhua photo)
(lost link)


===
12-14-2004
President: Sino-Russian strategic coordination reaches unprecedented level

BEIJING, Dec. 13 (Xinhuanet) -- Sino-Russian strategic coordination has attained an unprecedentedly high level, said President Hu Jintao here Monday during his meeting with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov, according to Foreign Ministry sources.

Hu, also chairman of the Central Military Commission of the Communist Party of China, said bilateral relations between China and Russia had entered a new phase of overall growth, since the two nations forged strategic partnership of coordination.

Cooperation in various sectors has been practical, in-depth andfruitful, he said, adding that growth of relations between the two armies have maintained good momentum.

China and Russia now face the same task of maintaining peace and stability and promoting common development, and it is in the fundamental interests of the people of every nation in the region to further deepen Sino-Russian bilateral strategic coordination, to tighten coordination and cooperation between the two countries and their armies within the framework of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and to join hands in combating terrorism and other evil forces, Hu said.

(snip)

Relations between the two armies are an important part of the partnership, he acknowledged, adding that Russia is willing to work with China to promote this relationship and to maintain peace and stability in the region and the world at large.

(snip)

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-12/14/content_23...

Anything else you need?

On edit...

I once said, "We will bury you," and I got into trouble with it. Of course we will not bury you with a shovel. Your own working class will bury you.
Nikita S. Khrushchev
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. kicking
shit ... just shit!
I hadn't heard @ the russian conscription plans.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
78. O h. M y. G o d.
Holy shite Tinoire- this is GRIM.
Thanks for the links, I think...
BHN :scared:
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Niccolo_Macchiavelli Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
118. Is there a link to that letter to the Europeans
i somehow missed it
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #118
124. Here Niccolo. "Open Letter to the Heads of State of EU & NATO"
They're seizing the tragedy at Beslan as an excuse to lecture Europe about maintaining cordial relations with Putin.

I wish I had time to research the names of all those who signed... Here you go



Letter of 100 on Democracy in Russia, September 28, 2004

An Open Letter to the Heads of State and Government
Of the European Union and NATO

September 28, 2004

(snip)
we are deeply concerned that these tragic events are being used to further undermine democracy in Russia. Russia's democratic institutions have always been weak and fragile. Since becoming President in January 2000, Vladimir Putin has made them even weaker. He has systematically undercut the freedom and independence of the press, destroyed the checks and balances in the Russian federal system, arbitrarily imprisoned both real and imagined political rivals, removed legitimate candidates from electoral ballots, harassed and arrested NGO leaders, and weakened Russia's political parties. In the wake of the horrific crime in Beslan, President Putin has announced plans to further centralize power and to push through measures that will take Russia a step closer to authoritarian regime.
We are also worried about the deteriorating conduct of Russia in its foreign relations. President Putin's foreign policy is increasingly marked by a threatening attitude towards Russia's neighbors and Europe's energy security, the return of rhetoric of militarism and empire, and by a refusal to comply with Russia's international treaty obligations. In all aspects of Russian political life, the instruments of state power appear to be being rebuilt and the dominance of the security services to grow. We believe that this conduct cannot be accepted as the foundation of a true partnership between Russia and the democracies of NATO and the European Union.
These moves are only the latest evidence that the present Russian leadership is breaking away from the core democratic values of the Euro-Atlantic community. All too often in the past, the West has remained silent and restrained its criticism in the belief that President Putin's steps in the wrong direction were temporary and the hope that Russia would soon return to a democratic and pro-Western path. Western leaders continue to embrace President Putin in the face of growing evidence that the country is moving in the wrong direction and that his strategy for fighting terrorism is producing less and less freedom. We firmly believe dictatorship will not and cannot be the answer to Russia's problems and the very real threats it faces.
The leaders of the West must recognize that our current strategy towards Russia is failing. Our policies have failed to contribute to the democratic Russia we wished for and the people of this great country deserve after all the suffering they have endured. It is time for us to rethink how and to what extent we engage with Putin's Russia and to put ourselves unambiguously on the side of democratic forces in Russia. At this critical time in history when the West is pushing for democratic change around the world, including in the broader Middle East, it is imperative that we do not look the other way in assessing Moscow's behaviour or create a double standard for democracy in the countries which lie to Europe's East. We must speak the truth about what is happening in Russia. We owe it to the victims of Beslan and the tens of thousands of Russian democrats who are still fighting to preserve democracy and human freedom in their country.

Urban Ahlin Madeleine K. Albright Giuliano Amato
Uzi Arad Timothy Garton Ash Anders Aslund
Ronald D. Asmus Rafael L. Bardaji Wladyslaw Bartoszewski

Arnold Beichman Jeff Bergner Joseph R. Biden
Carl Bildt Max Boot Ellen Bork
Pascal Bruckner Mark Brzezinski Reinhard Buetikofer

Janusz Bugajski Michael Butler Martin Butora
Daniele Capezzone Per Carlsen Gunilla Carlsson
Ivo Daalder Massimo D'Alema Pavol Demes
Larry Diamond Peter Dimitrov Thomas Donnelly
Nicholas Eberstadt Uffe Elleman-Jensen Helga Flores Trejo

Francis Fukuyama Jeffrey Gedmin Bronislaw Geremek
Carl Gershmann Marc Ginsberg Andre Glucksmann
Phil Gordon Karl-Theodor von und zu Guttenberg
Istvan Gyarmati Pierre Hassner Vaclav Havel
Richard C. Holbrooke Toomas Ilves Bruce Jackson
Donald Kagan Robert Kagan Craig Kennedy
Penn Kemble Glenys Kinnock Bernard Kouchner
Jerzy Kozminski Ivan Krastev William Kristol
Girts Valdis Kristovskis Ludger Kuehnhardt Mart Laar
Vytautas Landsbergis Stephen Larrabee
Mark Leonard Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger
Tod Lindberg Tom Malinowski
Will Marshall Margarita Mathiopoulos
Clifford May John McCain Michael McFaul
Matteo Mecacci Mark Medish Thomas O. Melia
Sarah E. Mendelson Michael Mertes Ilir Meta
Adam Michnik Richard Morningstar Joshua Muravchik

Klaus Naumann Dietmar Nietan James O'Brien
Janusz Onyszkiewicz Cem Ozdemir Can Paker
Mark Palmer Martin Peretz Friedbert Pflueger
Danielle Pletka Florentino Portero Samantha Ravich
Janusz Reiter Alex Rondos Jim Rosapepe
Jacques Rupnik Eberhard Sandschneider
Randy Scheunemann Christian Schmidt
Gary Schmitt Simon Serfaty Stephen Sestanovich

Radek Sikorski Stefano Silvestri Martin Simecka
Gary Smith Abraham Sofaer James Steinberg
Gary Titley Ivan Vejvoda Sasha Vondra
Celeste Wallander Ruth Wedgood Richard Weitz

Kenneth Weinstein Jennifer Windsor R. James Woolsey


http://www.newamericancentury.org/russia-20040928.htm

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Niccolo_Macchiavelli Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #124
134. thank you very much
PNACocrits....
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #124
150. kick
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Greylyn58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
27. Kick
In my heart of hearts I knew this was coming, but I kept praying it wouldn't.

Unfortunately, I have one nephew in Marine Boot Camp right now and another who is in college and this tears at my heart.

I keep praying the American people will wake up, but I'm afraid it will take a draft to do it.

God help us and damn George W and his gang to Hell for what they are doing to us and the people of Iraq.

Thank God I don't have children these butchers can take.

:grr:
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
29. They preserved deniability (barely)
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 09:19 PM by bluestateguy
They never use the words "draft" or "conscription" at all. So they will say that they have no intention of bringing back the draft.

Oh, they will, but it will be called something else ("national service", etc.) and they'll get to deny that it's really a draft.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
31. Kick cause this is HUGE.
Way too important to sink into the archives.
Print it, pass it.
BHN
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
32. Kicking for the lurking Freepers-
Here it is Freeps- a call for your sons and daughters!
We at DU are SO glad that you support the neocon
plan for world domination because that means your
sons and daughters will enlist now and save our kids
from the draft.
If you are a lurking Bush supporter- DO YOUR DUTY!
Enlist your kid NOW! Uncle Sam has spoken through
the neocon cult and clearly, it is time to put your kid where
your belief is.
DUers will gladly supply you with the necessary forms
to allow you to WALK YOUR TALK.
At YOUR kids expense, not ours.
BHN
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
132. Unfortunately,
the kids have to enlist on their own, and further, their parents cannot stop them. Besides, the kids ARE NOT responsible for their parents opinions or votes. to say otherwise is ...illiberal.

But all that aside, there will be no draft.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
33. And, as mentioned on other threads, Will "PNAC ROCKS!" Marshall signed it.
The fourth endorsement of PNAC views and policies for this leading DLCer and founder of PPI.

Why aren't Dems calling for the head of this traitor to their party?

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. First things first! We've got to get the word out!
The gallows will always be there!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #37
71. True enough!
NT!

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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
39. I hate to bring this up, but
how does this dovetail with the Dems recent 10 pt "agenda" that said they wanted to support our troops by adding 40,000 more military personnel?

I was bothered by that item. I think we need to address how this will play out. If Dem leaders are calling for 40k more troops, whose to blame PNAC?

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Gee, Katinmn,
That is surely just a coincidence!
The Dem leaders calling fo a 40,000 man expansion just a week before PNAC calls for 25,000 man expansion.
There couldn't be any links now, could there?
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Hmmmmmm
ya think?
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. Remember there are Dems that called for more troops...
about a year ago! They said we didn't have enough men to get the job done. Are you guys suggesting that all of the Dems are in cahoots? If so, we are in deep poop!
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. That's precisely the problem and exactly why we've been calling
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 11:32 PM by Tinoire
for the head of the DLC this last year. The neoLiberals and the neoConservatives have been working in concert for a while. This makes the stance of most Democrats who are antiwar, anti-draft, and anti-occupation totally irrelevant.

The collaborators all need to go.

Glad you saw the incongruity.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I didn't sign the damn petition either. For that reason.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. I know but (if we're talking about same) some of our representatives did
and like it or not by not having thrown them out they're getting away with representing us and too many people are still believing that crap that if we're paying taxes we're being represented by those bozos.

You're talking about the PNAC letter or something else? I understood PNAC letter. Just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. Either way, I like what you said earlier.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Hello there! Did you get my e-mail?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. The first one and answered it... Will check for a second now n/t
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clu Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #39
63. .
Dems. might have called for 30k before the election (Kerry IIRC) and for 40k now, but the link posted wants 25k per year for several years... a small difference but whatever.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
40. PNAC supplies the cannons.
American can supply the fodder.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #40
140. for the old testement christian's wanting the rapture to hurry up wars
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Red State Blues Donating Member (229 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
53. I'm sorry, you're just wrong.
If you start sending this out to all the thinking Republicans and freepers you know and say that this is proof of the coming Draft they're just going to think you're crazier than they already do.

I saw the title and read this topic with great interest, while I certainly fear a draft I would like to be on the leading edge of people who were absolutely positive that it is coming. This isn't huge. It isn't the smoking gun, sorry. I'm not saying that all these S.O.B.'s shouldn't be watched very closely however, nor am I saying that I see no cause for concern in this latest missive from PNAC.

They repeatedly mention the fiscal cost, a draft is cheap (though politically very costly (until Iran "attacks" us anyway)). What is fiscally costly is all the incentives it will require to get people to sign up and the high pay necessary for a volunteer army.

Where it gets interesting, for me anyway, is how much are they willing to pay and what are they willing to do when (and if) these costly recruitment plans fail to get the results they hope for?
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. The thing is, the PNAC agenda has become the bush agenda.
It appears that the US will need another "Pearl Harbor" to convince the people that the draft is needed.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. Hence all the talk of sleeper cells in the US
Another catalytic manufactured attack coming. And then they will jointly (but with a discrete joint) present a better "savior" to us.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #58
64. The terror alert went up to yellow yesterday or the day before
Did y'all catch that??
:scared:
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #64
69. Here? In the US? No kidding...wonder what's up now?
I can't believe that slipped past me!
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #58
75. How long will america fall for his manipulation?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #53
57. I enjoy your thoughtfulness, but have you read the PNAC
info? Sorry if you think it's whacky, but it originated from PNAC. So, explain this to me so I might change my opinion. Barring that, night night.
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Red State Blues Donating Member (229 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #57
65. PNAC Info?
Of course I read the statement which this thread concerns. Honestly, it's been a few years since I've read every single document on the site.

Let me be clear about what I'm saying. I think PNAC is very bad; I'm only very amazed/thankful that they're willing to put it all out in the open. (And disappointed when I get called "crazy" for accurately representing both the things on their site and the power that they have within the government.)

My only point is that this letter is not what the topic title proclaims it to be. It is not PNAC officially calling for the draft. If it was I'd be calling up friends RIGHT NOW and be telling them to get the fuck out of the country while they still can.

Does this letter concern me more than I already am about a draft? yes
Are there Republicans I might show this to? yes

But it's not the smoking gun, it's not the official proof of the coming draft and in the red state in which I live, portraying it as proof would only damage my credibility even more than being essentially correct about everything that has happened over the last four years already has. (I'll never understand why people would rather listen to someone who was for the war, and then against it (not directed at Kerry!) than someone who knew it was wrong from the outset. Why would people rather listen to someone who is only a "little" less stupid than themselves?)

Anyway, I don't think it's "whacky", just overstated. Glad to see the letter posted and I hope it's not the only warning we get.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #65
70. as for getting called 'crazy'
"(And disappointed when I get called "crazy" for accurately representing both the things on their site and the power that they have within the government.)"

Oh, I know the feeling, and all too well. It tends to never happen in the first place if I preface it with "now, this might sound crazy, but keep in mind when I tell you these things that they are crazy."

Crazy viewpoints come from crazy people in Joe Sixpack's head. Make certain they know you are talking about crazy statements from crazy people, and you'll probably be heard a little bit better.

When they find out who these people are, you'll really have their attention. And then you can prove it all by showing them the PNAC website. :)
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Red State Blues Donating Member (229 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #70
116. Good tip. Thanks! n/t
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #53
79. Wrong? Crazy?
Get back to me in a year and we'll see if
I am crazy or wrong about what this letter says.

BHN
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ChicanoPwr Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #79
96. Makes you wonder why
people want to be in denial. At another forum, I was claimed the be the one wanting the draft for addressing PNAC + DLC = Draft. So yeah, I would like to see what they say in a year or less.
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Red State Blues Donating Member (229 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #79
98. No, No, No, No!
I did not say you were crazy.

I am probably just as concerned about a possible draft as you are; in any event I am very concerned.

I am glad that you posted this.

BUT

I don't need to get back to you in a year! What happens in a year will have nothing to do with this. The simple fact is, is that this is misrepresentation. This letter from PNAC is not what you claim it is. It's just not.

I'm not in denial, I'm terrified that we're going to reinstate the draft. I've as much as said we're one terrorist attack (real or manufactured) away from it happening. But this letter is not the smoking gun, it's not absolute proof. It's scary, sure. It may be the last warning before the "real" absolute proof request comes along. I certainly think this letter is newsworthy and worthy of discussion on this site but misrepresentation is a tactic better left to the neocons.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
55. Things JUST got worst: Venezuela and China Sign Oil Agreements


Venezuela and China Sign Oil Agreements


President Hugo Chavez and Chinese Vice President Zeng Qinghong signed several agreements Saturday concerning oil, agriculture and technology, officials said. Chavez, whose relationship with the United States has deteriorated recently, has sought to forge new trade and political ties with foreign powers including China and Russia.

. . .

During their meeting, Chavez and Zeng signed a total of 19 agreements after discussing technological cooperation, as well as mining, oil and gas projects, according to a statement issued by the information ministry.

On a visit to Beijing last month, Chavez signed agreements boosting Chinese investment in Venezuela's rich oil and gas resources. The deals also involved the construction of a railroad in eastern Venezuela, the purchase of a satellite to improve telecommunications in the South American country, and the purchase of radars to tighten security along its border with Colombia.

Venezuela expects trade with China to reach US$3 billion this year due to the trade deals signed in December.

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2005/01/29/ap179142...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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ChicanoPwr Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #55
102. I am happy for Chavez
It is very interesting.
Venezuela is sure pissed at the fucked up US coup attempt. Lets see.. Chavez has an agreement with Cuba, Iran, China and Russia.

Yeah, I would say that is a message from Chavez telling B* to FUCK OFF. :nuke:
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #102
125. It certainly is. And it's letting Bush know that if he takes one step
in his direction... well, that would be a bad, bad move. And unlike the ass-hole, Chavez has his people behind him.


Hugo Chavez Gets Hero's Welcome at World Social Forum

By Alan Clendenning Associated Press Writer
Published: Jan 30, 2005


http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBYDUVXL4E.html



PORTO ALEGRE, Brazil (AP) - Sporting a red shirt embossed with a picture of the revolutionary Che Guevera, Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez received a hero's welcome Sunday at the World Social Forum, where activists greeted him with hugs and cries of "Here comes the boss!"
Tens of thousands of people attending the six-day gathering held to protest the simultaneous World Economic Forum in Switzerland consider Chavez their strongest voice against the U.S.-sponsored spread of liberalized trade in Latin America, a move they say benefits multinational companies while enslaving workers.

"Now the imperialist forces are starting to strike against the people of Latin America and the world," Chavez said. "And it's up to our soldiers to stay alert and be prepared to defend the people and not to submit themselves to the interests of the empire."

Chavez, a self-described revolutionary, is mounting an aggressive land reform campaign and funneling profits from Venezuela's oil riches to the poor as part of a political movement loosely based on the ideas of South American independence hero Simon Bolivar.

While Chavez was cheered at the social forum, some jeered Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva when he spoke Thursday, accusing him of failing to come through on promises of social reforms to eradicate Brazilian misery.

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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
62. McCaffrey? As in MSNBC Analyst Gen. McCaffrey?
Is HE calling for a draft? Let him do it on TV. I fucking DARE him.

See how long his checks keep coming in.

Bake
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #62
67. I'm afraid so. I know he has two kids over there.
I've heard him talk about them before. I don't think he is in the PNAC...I remember reading that they recruited some high ranking military to sign, also. I'm not excusing his involvement...I'm just thinking out loud! Peace!
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
72. A conscripted army is an unhappy army...
this should be very interesting
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. Unhappy is right-
Hell, even the volunteers are unhappy at this point.
Can you imagine the moral among the ones who
are forced to go?
Stop the world, I want to get off now.
BHN
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evolvenow Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
73. FIGHT BACK!! Support http://www.dougwallace.com
Lawsuit filed against President Bush,Vice President Cheney-

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7751.ht ...
Doug Wallace
WASHINGTON -- January 18 "Information Clearing House" -- A lawsuit was filed late Friday January 14th in the U.S. District Court in Reno, Nevada against President Bush and Vice President Cheney. The lawsuit alleges that both defendants have acted outside the scope of their job description in waging a war against Iraq. The complaint alleges that both defendants and others working within the White House and Defense Department have covertly implemented a white paper called Rebuilding Americas Defenses: as presented by the Project for the New American Century or PNAC in September, 2000 two months before the murky elections of that year. Among the persons signing the paper were Richard Cheney and Jeb Bush. While the paper was published on the internet, implementation of it by the White House has been in secret.
The thrust of the white paper calls for the complete domination of the globe by the US with wars against Iraq, Syria, and Iran, domination of outer space and of Cyberspace. It calls for an enlarged military to fight simultaneous wars. Security bases world wide with extensive constabulary forces posted to keep all nations subservient to US military and economic power. It also calls for nuclear rockets to be fired from Spy satellites to suppress any challenge to US global domination.
The class action lawsuit filed by retired attorney and great-grandfather, Doug Wallace alleges that the defendants have violated their oaths of office in entering into a private treaty relating to International relations without approval of the Congress and have made a mockery of the Constitution under a false banner of a war on terrorism.
The lawsuit seeks an injunction against further implementation of the PNAC plan without a 2/3 vote of the congress and a full disclosure to the American Public. It also names John Does 1-100 as defendants. The suit seeks restitution to the US Treasury from all Defendants of the cost of the war with Iraq and also seeks a ruling that since the deception about the war and execution of it was outside of their job descriptions they should all be individually liable to private persons injured as a result of their illegal conduct. To view Complaint go to www.dougwallace.com Under the circumstances, notice of support to the court would be appropriate (A printable copy is available at page 26 on website ).CONTACT: Founders Freedom Defense Fund : Doug Wallace 775-833-5010
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
81. Another concerned kick
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 02:41 PM by Zhade
:dem:

EDIT: Please keep this kicked, because what PNAC wants, PNAC usually gets.

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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
83. and, we know that the PNAC gets what it wants
they wanted a spectacular, Pearl Harbor style disaster to wake up Americans and justify war and military spending.

They got it.

They wanted a war with Iraq.

They got it.

They want a draft...
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. It will solve so many pesky problems!
What to do with all those uneducated, uninsured
unemployed youth...hmmm, let's see now....
I know! A Draft!
That will solve so many of our problems!
Yes indeed! What an excellent plan this is...
PNAC to the "rescue."
BHN


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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
84. PNAC treats the world like their own private chessboard
And they have no idea how to play chess.

We're truly screwed.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
85. I've been telling my students to get ready
I teach 10th graders in a very poor rural town. Most of them have parents who don't care about voting and believe what they see on CNN/FOX. It will really upset me when they start getting drafted to fight the bigger battles that we all know are coming. When they come back dead or suffering from traumatic damage to their still developing minds.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. I hear you Rex...
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 02:36 PM by BeHereNow
My daughter and her peers are all around 17 and 18 years old.
The thought of ANY young person in a war zone is
horrific.
BHN
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
88. I notice Will Marshall signed it
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 02:38 PM by Jack Rabbit
I hate to make this request, but collaborating with PNAC is beyond the pale.

Will somebody please read him out of the Democratic Party?

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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. well hell, of course he did.
Our boy Will miss a chance to curry favor with the GOP and fuck up the country at the same time?

:hi:, Jack!
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kendall Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
93. Those numbers hardly indicate a draft
If you are talking about a million more troops in a year, I might think there was going to be a draft.

25000 total across a number of branches over SEVERAL years? That's just stepping up recruiting ever so slightly, or slightly relaxing requirements to get in.

My brother in law applied for the Army but there was some obscure medical thing in his past that led them to say no. If they are still turning away basically healthy and willing people then we are a very, very long way away from any need for a draft.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. You need to re-read that. It's not 25000 total over several years
it's:

at least 25,000 troops each year over the next several years

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kendall Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. Thanks for the correction, but still not a number to worry about
I did not read that carefully enough, but even so those are not the kinds of numbers that call for a draft. A draft is for when you need millions of people, and still within recruit-able range.

Like I said I have seen perfectly fine people rejected by the Army already, between accepting a few more people than they have and doing a recruitment campaign, those numbers are not unachievable through colunteers. It's just a matter of getting the funds to pay for them.

I don't even think the miltary could handle a draft anymore, soldiers need too much training nowdays to just pull a large number of people in all at once.
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
95. What else can be done with all the unemployed?
Think about it, what do we do with 30 million or so younger people, underemployed, with little chance of a comeback due to the impending dollar meltdown. The king has been naughty and has mixed lead in the gold coins again, thus devaluing the money. It is an old story, played out time and time again. Nothing changes, only the faces.

If the draft isn't implemented, then they will be in the streets. It is better if they were within the strong discipline of the military.

All that is needed is a reason every patriotic citizen can get behind. I am sure the churches will supply the fervent beating of drums from the pulpits. The churches have never let the kings down before, they won't now either. There will be no shortage of 'godless heathens' for enemies.

Sigh, yes, I can see the marching bands and pretty girls kissing their brave men goodbye now.

Glorious war is coming again. It will be a reellee beeg one too, as Ed would say.

You know, there is something to that old practice of sacrificing the children for the sake of the cities. You know, the first born and all that stuff.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
99. No draft needed. The election was a success. We can bring home the
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 06:20 PM by tsuki
boys now!
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Peak_Oil Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
101. It doesn't say draft anywhere in there.
It says they want more troops. Maybe they'll reinstate full combat pay or have sign-on bonuses or something. Try to be accurate.
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ChicanoPwr Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. Step away from the kool aid
and start reading between the lines. Of course they are not going to say draft, that would be political suicide. All the soccer-mommies and nascar-daddies would be pissed off. So read between the PNAC lines.
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Peak_Oil Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #103
117. My tinfoil is secure and well-affixed.
But you should know that when you say the PNAC said, "Blah blah blah," you better damn well get it right.

This thread is disinformation.

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ChicanoPwr Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #117
121. Disinformation...where
Seems like your arguement is very well taken. Oh wait, you didn't make one.

Just saying this thread is disinformation without pointing out the facts or pointing out the post that has the wrong information, does not make this thread as a fact of disinformation.

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Peak_Oil Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #121
130. Thread title: Here it is..official PNAC request for the DRAFT.
Link to article:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/defense-20050128.htm

Nowhere in that article does the word "draft" appear. Nor does the word "conscription" appear. The article does say that as a percentage of GDP, we are below cold-war levels of spending. I suppose you might construe that to say that we should staff up to cold-war levels, but we didn't have a draft during the cold war. We had a draft for Vietnam.

Also, in searchig the PNAC website in the following manner,

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Awww.newamer...

we discover that in the nine instances of the word "draft," the PNAC were referring to a paper. Even the most ambiguous use of the word "draft," contained in the sentence "...White House National Security Council is circulating a new draft national security strategy that challenges the Pentagon's accepted standard..." certainly refer to a paper of some kind and not the conscription of soldiers.

The title for this thread is misleading and disingenuous. It is disinformation.

Let's consider another twist of fact. In Michael Moore's movie Fahrenheit 9-11, he states that Bush spent 43% of his time in the white house at his ranch. What he doesn't say is that included in that 43% is weekends. When you subtract the weekends, you're left with 13% of his time spent on the ranch. Well, 13% isn't quite as impressive as 43%, so Michael ran with 43%. He's not actually lying, but I'm sure you see the connection.

There is plenty of accurate and useful information to use. such as the fact that due to the use of depleted uranium, the US is subjecting itself for prosecution under war crimes. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs257/en /
For that one, read down to where it says..."may inhale contaminated dust and consume contaminated food" and then head to
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5941.ht...
where you find out that the toxic dose is a millionth of a gram.

There's so much real meat to eat. Why bother with muddying the water with this bullshit?


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njdemocrat106 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
104. Kick and nominate!
This is flat-out scary, considering that I'm of draft age.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention".
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
105. Congress and the people need to look at every PNAC document in the
whole, holistically to see if sense can be made of all the dots, to see if the dots can be connected, to see if there is some pattern there.
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reichstag911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
106. PNAC anthem...could be...
from http://www.jonathabrooke.com/music/plumb-tracks.php?tra... , c. 1995

:cry:

Every morning I get up and I watch the war, watch the war
And every morning it upstages all my favorite shows
"Donahue," "Hogan's Heroes."

It's the American way, the new world order
We hold these truths to be self-evident
In the American day, you must give and I shall take
And I will tell you what is moral and what's just

Because I want, because I will, because I can
So will I kill

Every morning I get up and I raise the flag
Salute the monument of those who gave their lives
And I guess war's ok, it's just a little inconvenient
But it's better than a video-game, it's better than the movies

It's the American way, the new world order
We hold these truths to be self-evident
In the American day, you must give and I shall take
And I will tell you what is moral and what's just

Because I want, because I will, because I can
So will I kill

Every morning I get up and I watch the war, watch the war, watch the war
And every morning it upstages everything I know

It's the American way, the new world order
We hold these truths to be self-evident
In the American day, you must give and I shall take
And I will tell you what is moral and what's just

Because I want, because I will, because I can
So will I
Because I want, because I will, because I can
So will I, (Oh, say can you see)
Because I want, because I will, because I can
So will I
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ChicanoPwr Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #106
112. I think it should re-named to..
"The PNAC/DLC Anthem"

It is time to out the fake Dems in the Democratic Party.
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Rapcw Donating Member (567 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
107. kick n/t
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
108. ATTN YOUNG DUERS: start documenting your CO status NOW!
I am 32, so it may be a long time before they ask me to serve. But if they do, regardless of whether they want me through a Special Skills Draft or the cannon fodder draft the PNAC obviously wants, I am already compiling documentation on my conscientious objection to war. DON'T LET THE MISADMINISTRATION USE YOU!

This thread contains my letter of conscientious objection:

Documenting CO Beliefs - Start Now (Cross Post)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Be sure to check out all the threads at the Draft Discussion Group on DU. There are tons of good links to tell you how to avoid the draft.
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Raised_In_The_Wild Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
109. who's the PNAC? n/t
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #109
113. Welcome to DU, Raised! This thread has links to answer your question.
What is PNAC, and who all are involved?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Hope that helps.
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Raised_In_The_Wild Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #113
114. ty! n/t
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4MoreYearsOfHell Donating Member (943 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
110. They left out the paragraph
that says that in order to show their determination and resolve in this belief, that their children/grandchildren eagerly await their local Army/Marine recruiter...

Anything William Kristol signs or says is covered with slime...

God help us all...
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ChicanoPwr Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
111. What I was told...
from a PNAC lite minion.

I responded to someone who was in favor of a strong military force in the middle east, so I said:

Pressure Iran, Syria and Saudi to reform???? What right do we have to put pressure on them????

Their reply:
"I think if we don't get the people who live in this part of the world to change the way they think we will be doomed to have another 9/11. The right we have to pressure them is called self preservation."

"We do seem to end up holding the bag on a lot of problems in the world don't we. I guess that's because we have the most to lose. I can't even conceive of Americans living like Europeans do in terms of purchasing parity, or standard of living. Most Americans would freak if the price of gasoline doubled...and some elderly people would starve if it tripled for sure."


Very sad when kool aid drinking people talk like this. And speaking of kool aid and NPAC lite people feel we are a bunch of kooks thinking that PNAC is trying to create a New World Order.

"If it's drinking kool-aid to refuse to think that the entire US government is allowing or disallowing the attacks on the USA....I'm keeping mr. kool aid right next to me thank you very much :). It's the ol' little cabal of "insert type" running the world again. The bilderbergers, the trilateralists, the Masons, the aliens on and on and on. The whole reason people do this is because it's easy...you don't ever have to face the facts that there are things that we can't control (as in not the group of people we think we can eradicate and all will be well), that mean us all great harm. It's intellectually lazy to ascribe to one small group all of the ills that befall the country, but it's an age old practice if that makes you feel better about it all."

"That's a big problem with the democratic party is there are too many of us who don't mind making themselves look like kooks. The democratic party has a better message than the republicans, we just scare too many people off because of just a few too many kooks, we all get generalized as kooks."


Makes you wonder why they claim to be in the Dem party.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
115. Man... These Guys Have Some Brass Balls !!!
Now if we could just get 'em near one of these gizmos...



:grr:
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clem_c_rock Donating Member (989 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
120. To all the MMoore/MoveOn loyalist
Who keep chiming their udying-faith-in-Washington-politics
mantra of "Reinstating the Draft would be political suicide".

When are you going to believe that it's time to wake the F*** up??

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ChicanoPwr Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #120
122. Yada yada yada
Is that all you can say. Name calling, please make an argument. Here is my tin foil and I am proud wearing it too.

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clem_c_rock Donating Member (989 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #122
126. It's a comment not an argument
Basically a comment made out of frustration after debating time after time that a draft is more than looming on the horizon. In fact, given the PNAC's warmongering stance (And, they are the ones calling ALL the shots), a draft is nearly inevitable.

Since this site is dedicated to "Democrats and Progressives", I'm taking the stance that, given the Dems complicency in this Iraq mess, we need to think more about real change instead of loyalty to the Democratic party itself. I'm sorry, the Dems in upper politics are selling this country out from under us almost as quickly as the right is.

And I'm not entirely Dem bashing here as there are many fine Democrats still around w/ guts IE. Boxer, Conyers, McKinney, Kennedy and Byrd. Much praise goes out to these folks.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #120
127. What the fuck are you talking about and to whom?
This thread is about PNAC and their plans for eternal war, which will demand a draft at some point.

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clem_c_rock Donating Member (989 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #127
128. Exactly sir, read my post I just put up
Again - I'm posting my last statement to people are not able to wake up to the draft possibility or should I say, near inevitability.

It's posted out of frustration in previous posts regarding the draft where people were pissing all over the idea that it could happen and that the reason it couldn't happen is because of the endangerment of political careers.

We are in some extremely dangerous times, folks, and it's just possible that things are getting past the point where normal government checks and balances have long been breached.

I always get the feeling that MoveOn and MMoore are more dedicated to the Democratic party than the idea of real change. The fact that most of the dems voted for the Iraq war (and yes, people in upper politics know it wasn't faulty intelligence) as to not go against the grain and endanger their political careers shows that maybe they don't deserve our support unless they show some real guts as Boxer, McKinny, Conyers have shown.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #128
131. Well, some politicians HAVE avoided discussing the draft for political
reasons, especially concerning their re-election. Bush and Cheney are two prime examples. Anyway, this does not preclude the possibility of a draft. It is coming.

I have never gotten "the feeling that MoveOn and MMoore are more dedicated to the Democratic party than the idea of real change." In fact, I have observed the opposite of what you say. Moore's a self-described Independent and nobody I know affiliated with MoveOn is a registered Democrat.

As for Boxer, McKinny, and Conyers, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I wish Boxer was my senator.
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LiberallyInclined Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
123. a draft would be of HUGE help-
to our side in the midterms- the longer they wait, the closer to those elections it gets, and the fresher in the minds of the press and the voters.

HOWEVER- I think that something like a military draft would have a fair amount of staying power inthe minds of the voters.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
129. American Free Press: DRAFT LOOMS / Expect To See Conscription
DRAFT LOOMS

Now That Election Is Over, Expect To See Conscription

By Greg Szymanski

Within a matter of weeks, Rep. Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.), plans to try and re-institute the military draft, saying the present voluntary system places an unfair burden of war among lower- and middle-class Americans while giving the rich a free ride from military service.

Rangels statements are unpopular among most lawmakers and government watchdog groups. But they came on one of the bloodiest days of the Iraq war with over 35 Marines killed, bringing the total military casualties to more than 1,400 with over 10,000 injured or maimed.

Although the liberal Democrat has been an outspoken critic of President Bushs war policies, he said this week the burden of war should be shared among all social groups, including the children of the wealthy and privileged.

Sometime soon Rep. Rangel is preparing to reintroduce legislation to reinstitute the military draft since he strongly feels everyone should share the burden of war, said Emile Milne, Rangels press representative and legislative director Wednesday from his Washington office. He is essentially reintroducing legislation that failed to gain support last session. However, this time around, I think, it has a better chance of passing.

Milne was referring to H.R. 163, Rangels previous pro-draft piece of legislation, which became a Democratic embarrassment and a political football during the 2004 presidential campaign. When charges started flying that Bush would bring back the draft if elected, Rangels bill became an obvious political liability for Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), who was taking a strong anti-draft position.

OBVIOUS POLITICAL REASONS

In a political move, Democrats quickly rushed the bill to the House floor, where it was summarily rejected by an overwhelming majority. Rangel even voted against his own legislation, for obvious tactical political reasons.

With the election now over, opponents of the draft claim the path is now clear for politicians from both sides of the aisle to get behind the draft, with Rangel obviously leading the charge.

In the face of strong criticism, Rangel still strongly supports a nationwide military draft, saying it is both a deterrent to war and a mechanism to force privileged Americans to share the wars burden.

However, Bill Galvin, head of a group called the Center of Conscience and War, said both arguments are totally wrong since the draft has never made the Armed Services more equitable, racially or economically.

The affluent had and still have the means to gain medical deferments or to serve soft, safe positions, Galvin said, referring to people like President Bush, who served stateside in the National Guard and Vice President Cheney who avoided service completely in Vietnam by obtaining a deferment. If Rep. Rangel and other pro-draft progressives really wanted to fix social and racial inequities, theyd be advocating for jobs, education and opportunity, not equal opportunity war making.

Whether the draft becomes a reality is still in political limbo. However, no one would argue that Bushs aggressive foreign military policies need more warm bodies and boots on the ground.

In a recent Los Angeles Times article, former security advisors Brent Scowcroft and Zbigniew Brzezinski were quoted as saying the U.S. requires at least 500,000 more troops to sustain the war in Iraq and reinstatement of the draft may be unpopular but necessary.

At best, Rangels bill merely plays into Bushs hands, said Galvin. At worst, its a stealth measure intended to supply progressive political cover for pro-draft Democrats.

A White House spokesman this week refused to comment on Rangels initiative, but said Bush has publicly opposed any legislation to reinstitute the draft. Privately, however, Galvin and others fear Bush is just waiting for the right moment to spring the draft back on the American people since he no longer has to worry about getting re-elected.

Greg Szymanski is a freelance investigative journalist and feature writer based in Ventura California. A law school graduate from Glendale University College of Law, he also specializes in constitutional issues as well as judicial indiscretion and injustice. Visit Szymanskis news web site at arcticbeacon.citymaker.com.


Not Copyrighted. Readers can reprint and are free to redistribute - as long as full credit is given to American Free Press - 645 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, Suite 100 Washington, D.C. 20003

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/draft_looms.html

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
133. Who can read this and deny that there will be a draft?
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DistantWind88 Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #133
135. Me
There will not be a general draft within the next four years.

If Congress were to lift the end-strength caps, the military would be able to recruit enough people to fill out the increased troop levels; especially if the economy remains weak.
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RockStar Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
136. YEAH the Draft!!!! Finally this might wake up the american people.
Edited on Mon Jan-31-05 06:32 AM by RockStar
Remember send the Young Republicans First and all those mommas and daddys boys in Beverly Hills.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
137. kick
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
141. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
142. In all fairness to the Partnership for Nationalist American Crazies
Edited on Mon Jan-31-05 10:09 AM by tasteblind
I have to say that 25,000 is not a huge number. They could probably get that just by paying soldiers a little better, or adding some other kind of benefit.

Edit: This is to say that what they are asking for doesn't necessarily entail a draft.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
144. kick
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
146. PNAC calls for FEWER troops than Kerry did during the campaign
the only thing that's interesting to me about this letter is that it shows PNAC is still in business, which I wasn't aware of.

PNAC surely wants a draft (why wouldn't they?) but this letter doesn't show it.
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Willy Lee Donating Member (925 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
149. BIPARTISAN PNAC????? Ummm....
The letter to ends with the following paragraph-

That is why we, the undersigned, a bipartisan group with diverse policy views, have come together to call upon you to act. You will be serving your country well if you insist on providing the military manpower we need to meet America's obligations, and to help ensure success in carrying out our foreign policy objectives in a dangerous, but also hopeful, world.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
151. And now, thanks to Rangel, the DEMS will be to blame!
Anyone paying attention to the dovetailing of this
letter and Rangel's plan to introduce the Draft Bill?
How conVEEEEnient.
Blame the Dems for carrying out the PNAC agenda,
as IF there were a two party system...snarf and snort...
BHN
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
152. I need to kick this thread about PNAC.
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