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The dire choice we face in Iraq as an anti-war force

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Obviousman Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:44 PM
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The dire choice we face in Iraq as an anti-war force
I was reading Andrew Greeley's article in the paper today, and I came to a scary realization. We have two options with the Iraq war. First off, success is impossible, at least in terms of what the administration wants to do. The Iraqis will never be throwing flowers and candy at our troops. With that as our starting point, here are the choices we face. The elections could be an absolute disaster, and for the first time, Bush appears as the idiot he truly is before the whole world. We would feel vindicated, but the troops would need to stay there longer to try to keep the country from falling apart at the seams. OR Bush and his cohorts will spin the the elections, which may be a disaster into a success story. And the american people all feel that we did the right thing in Iraq, and Bush goes down in history as one of the greatest presidents ever. But, with the success, the troops come home, and the toll to american lives ends.

Andrew Greeley writes this: "The late Herr Goebbels said that if you tell a big lie often enough, people will believe it is true. The Bush administration has modified the dictum: If your spin is outrageous enough and repeated often enough, people will believe it is true -- and eventually you will believe it, too. Will they be able to spin a withdrawal from Iraq into a victory? They will get away with it, if only because the majority of Americans want to believe in victory.

The war will still be unjust, sinful, criminal. The people who re-elected President Bush will still have the blood of thousands of Iraqi on their hands. Spin cannot change those realities. Nevertheless, if spin can create clothes for the naked emperor so he looks victorious, Americans will no longer die in Iraq."

What I'm saying is, that as people opposed to the war, we may have to sacrifice being vindicated for ending the war. Seeing how we are anti-war, shouldnt that be our goal? It was a sobering awakening I had today, and the rest of the article is just as excellent. What does everyone here think?
http://www.suntimes.com/output/greeley/cst-edt-greel28....
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:53 PM
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1. There Will Be No Withdrawal of US Troops
But there was never any real intention to withdraw the troops, remember what Bush said today about withdrawing US troops if the newly elected leaders of Iraq request a withdrawal.

The problem is that there will be no request for withdrawal from the new Iraqi government, they will say that in order to assist in making the new Democratic Iraq stable, the troops will have to stay.

Do you really believe that the US military is going to pull out after
all the money that's been spent to build permanent bases, or the planned movement of US military bases from Western to Eastern Europe?

You like Father Greeley, have high hopes, and while admirable, it's not based on the real history of this administration, which lied to get us into a war, and continues to change the reasons for why we're there.

Keep hoping for the best, but always expect the worse, especially with this administration.
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Obviousman Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I realize we will always have bases in Iraq
But thousands of soldiers who are fighting will get to come home. There will never be a complete withdrawal, but at some point, troop levels have to go down, and I want it sooner rather than later.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good reasoning. Only choices I see are bad ones.
1. USA leaves Iraq and the war continues.
2. USA stays in Iraq and the war continues.
No matter what the USA does, war continues, perception of USA worldwide plummets further, bad stuff. The problem with spinning "the elections were a success" is that there is enough media coverage proving this false. Eventually with enough spin certain people in the USA and worldwide will think it was a success. And there will be those who think otherwise (even IF it was a success). But there is enough coverage worldwide that even if bushites believe the elections were a success, enough people know it wasn't.

I would be interested in reading the history books on this in 100 yrs, provided there are such things then.
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