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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:14 AM
Original message
What are the rules to being Liberal or Progressive?
There appears to be some rules or a rule book on being Liberal or Progressive that I haven't read.

From what I can gather so far is:
WE can't laugh or be happy.
We need to pontificate and be philosophical continuously.
We all have to be serious all the time.
We all have to HATE everything that is seen as religious or religion based.
We have to HATE corporate America and everyone involved with it.
If someone differs on a belief call them an apologist and then purge them.
WE have to HATE anyone who one of us says is against us.
We have to fight each other to the death.
We have to hate people who drive SUVs
We have to be pure in all of our thoughts and beliefs and if someone differs we have to purge them.
We don't make any mistakes and purge anyone who does.
We shun unity unless it is for Abortion then every one must have the same beliefs. If they don't they are religious nuts who must be purged.
People who Pray SUX unless you are praying against Bush then it is OK.

What else is in the rule book for being a Progressive or Liberal that I've forgotten
\sarcasm...

OK so lets look internally and be truthful and if need be laugh @ ourselves for a minute. What does being a Liberal or Progressive mean to you?
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daydreamer Donating Member (503 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Being liberal
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 10:52 AM by daydreamer
means to me among many things that
we have sense of logic
we have sense of proportion
we honor tradition and value progress
we fight for justice
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Thurgood Marshall Law Professor defines "Liberal."
HoustonChronicle.com -- http://www.HoustonChronicle.com | Section: Viewpoints, Outlook
Nov. 20, 2004, 7:51PM



No sissified code words for me: I'm a liberal

I refused to be demonized by the right

By OTIS H. KING
I am a liberal, born and bred, complete and unadulterated, pure and simple, without any hyphenated prefix or suffix.

Furthermore, it is an appellation I wear openly and proudly, even in this hyperconservative state and in these excruciatingly conservative times. I have done so since I first became politically astute enough to understand the available label choices, some fifty50 or so years ago. I do not shy away from it as I have witnessed some doing in recent times, choosing to distance themselves from those of us still willing to be properly classified. They engage in linguistic legerdemain by calling themselves moderates, middle-of-the-roaders or some other such mealy-mouthed, mushy, nondescript, euphemistically sissified term, as though they are embarrassed by the old designation that correctly and properly describes our social and political philosophy.

Moreover, I resent deeply that some, for their own selfish political benefits, and to put us on the defense, have been able to give the word a pejorative connotation, somehow labeling anyone brazen enough to still be recognized by the name as some kind of freak, bent on opening the treasury so as to, God forbid, create a welfare state, peopled by hoochie mamas, illegitimate children and illegal aliens, speaking some foreign tongue, while lapping up money at the public trough.

And worst of all, the term has been so successfully demonized and given such a symbolic negative racial connotation by those on the far right that, in the South particularly, it has separated us, on that spurious basis, from those with whom our shared economic status and interest ought to dictate the making of common cause.

As angry as I am about what we have permitted to be foisted upon us by our political enemies, I am equally upset that other liberals have shied away from so labeling themselves. Liberalism is a proud tradition, and I believe it represents the bedrock principles upon which this country is founded. It is the leavening which softens the stark harshness of a pure capitalistic society and makes it palatable to those of us who care for people who, for whatever reason, cannot always successfully navigate life completely on their own. Liberalism is the principle that glorifies and revels in the beautiful diversity of this land in all its multicultural, multiracial and multi-lingual aspects. After all, we are a country of immigrants, whether voluntary or forced.

As I see it, liberalism is a philosophy that supports a strong role for government in ensuring that all are able to live a decent life and share in the bounties of this incredibly blessed country, regardless of the stations of life into which they were born. And, if government is not about making life just a little bit better by doing those things that require a collective endeavor, such as security, both physical and financial, by creating a military for the former and programs such as Medicare and Social Security to deal with the latter, and helping those who find themselves in a position of needing temporary support, through safety nets like Medicaid, public housing and food stamps, then, pray tell, what in the world is it for?

And, perhaps, most important of all, liberalism is about a belief in an entitlement to a good, publicly provided education for all citizens, not just those who can afford to send their children to private institutions so that we all may take part in this participatory democracy as informed citizens. Certainly, government does not exist simply to ensure that the rich get richer and the powerful gain more power, while the poor remain poor.

It is not unpatriotic to be a liberal, either, and the suggestion that it is makes this old 82nd Airborne paratrooper's blood boil. I was drafted, served without complaint (OK, without too much complaint), and was willing to put my life on the line if that had become necessary. And, as I near the seventh decade of life, I am happy to stand as a yellow-dog, East Texas, Franklin Roosevelt liberal in all my unsullied glory.

King is a law professor at Thurgood Marshall School of Law, and was city attorney under Mayor Fred Hofheinz. He can be e-mailed otisking@facultyvoice.com .
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. Great essay!
"...the term has been so successfully demonized...

...have been able to give the word a pejorative connotation, somehow labeling anyone brazen enough to still be recognized by the name as some kind of freak, bent on opening the treasury so as to, God forbid, create a welfare state, peopled by hoochie mamas, illegitimate children and illegal aliens, speaking some foreign tongue, while lapping up money at the public trough. "

The Repukes are damn good at framing and it works.
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KissMeKate Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think thats what the right wing wants you to think
hey, 59 million people voted for Kerry- a liberal. And 59 million people arent all alike- were just human beings.

being a liberal or progressive is just living life - ordinary joe schmoe life.

We arent special, we arent a different race of beings, we are represented by the whole spectrum of humanity.

For me, being a liberal means having hope in my fellow human beings.

It means I can celebrate myself and humanity, knowing things will get better.

Its a purpose in life- a striving, a source of joy.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Well based on how we diss people here all 59million aren't as Liberal
as you'd like.

Cuz
Some are religious and don't believe in abortion
Some drive SUVS
Some work in Corporate America and like it.

ALL 59 million liberals aren't like you or me.
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KissMeKate Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. 28% of the electorate say they are liberal.
28% of americans cant all be alike. thats at least 25 million people.

The majority of americans support Rose Vs Wade, with limited restrictions. Let me rephrase that- pro choice is the majority in america.

yes, most people in america are christians- but see the liberal percentage.

SUVs- well, no argument there. Marketing works, and SUVs are very popular in America. Car companies make lots more money per vehicle if you buy an SUV instead of a car. So they have a direct incentive to advertise and sell as many as possible. Lots of Americans drive SUVs- I cant win them all :)

Most work in corporate america- most buisinesses are incorporated. liking it? well, I disagree. I dont think the American worker is feeling very secure or happy about the state of their job or they hours they work. Just because they show up to work doesnt mean they like it- they probably just need the money. However, I dont know they stats on "how many americans like working for corporate America"- so its hard to say. My gut feeling is, most americans wouldnt characterise themselves as liking working for corporate america.


"All 59 million liberals arent like you or me." Thats the EXACT message of my pot- we are in agreement. Thus, no rule book applies.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Well I think I'm a Liberal and most people here think I'm a moderate
that's what I'm trying to get to in this thread.

Being a liberal is so much more profound that the bullshit we spout here. Who drives a SUV, who lives in a big house, and who is an apologist...

What we fight about is so petty compared to what being a Liberal is.

If we WAKE UP and take a lookie see at what is really fighting for and not killing each other over the Dean thing we'd be som much more effective.

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KissMeKate Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. I dont think we "spout" bullshit here.

I agree with you, being liberal IS profound.


I would have to say, I had no idea that you were trying to say you were liberal, not moderate, in your first post- That post looked like some kind of bizarre troll post, and I know youre not a troll, just having discussed things with you. It seemed a list of everything the republicans say we Democrats are.


There is a power struggle between the moderates, liberals, and perhaps "more liberals" (or however one chooses to characterise them- I call myself a leftist- unapologetically.)

I think this power struggle is good, and instead of weakening the party,. it will strengthen it. It keeps us on our toes, defending our core beliefs.

I dont think we are killing each other with debate. The Dean discussion has its place, not because of the man, but because of the power struggle between the moderates and (your choice of word here).

Debate in a party can be unpleasant, but it can be healthy at the same time.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Let's be for real some of us do sput bullshit you may not have been
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 12:55 PM by xultar
here when all of the SUV drivers are selfish apologist threads were going around...
Then it was people who have a lot of children,
Then it was people who have big houses.

What else...I'll think of it then edit it in.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. Rules? We don need no steenkin rules!
And I don't hate SUVs unless they are on the road with me; I can't see around them which makes them dangerous. Not fond of panel trucks, pickups, and logging trucks either. Surprisingly, I think most big rig drivers are careful and considerate of who they share the road with -- unlike most Expedition drivers.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. BADGES..we don't need no stinking Badges...one of my favorite lines!
Yeah!
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. believing in Social Democracy
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Great Constructive thoughtful answer. You got the message.
I didn't want a lecture I wanted to know what makes us liberals.

Thank you!
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. testy aren't we this AM? i guess exceptance of mean people like you is one
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 11:22 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
didn't you get enough sleep last night?
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Nope. I was serious. IT was constructive. No sarcasm. I liked it.
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 11:32 AM by xultar
:pals:

You didn't lecture. That was a good thing. You were right and to the point.

Sorry you took it that way cuz I didn't mean it the way you thought.

I've made the same mistake to other posters myself.

Nope...I really thought your post was constructive.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. oh i'm so sorry... and thanks now i'm feeling happy again and foolish
:hug:
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Puhleezzz I have made that mistake lots of time. No biggie. We're KEWL!
:hug:
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
8. Liberty and justice for ALL!
Let freedom ring

:hippie:
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Yes, Let Freedom Ring... don't spread it. Spreading isn't freedom.
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 11:40 AM by xultar
Spreading is forcing.

You must be the chage that you want to see in the world. Mahatma Gandhi
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. When you spread something,
you thin it out. Liberals are more about sowing seeds, and nurturing freedom.

Freedom doesn't grow from the barrels of guns, but the baskets of prosperity, tolerance, and wisdom.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. IS that yours...the writing is BEAUTIFUL! that has some heartfelt
meaning I can grab a hold to.
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jdots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
10. I don't have a rule book,and it's hard
There is an old term we used that is an abstraction of hollywood portrayals of beat-nics said " I'm hip "
" I am so hip it hurts " You have to remember that some of the rules that liberals/progressives and or intellects are said to follow are not created by these people and are brand names.
I don't carry signs or sing the song or chant at rallys,I am there for something more than an idendentity or slogan.I will defend the right and the left untill it gets ugly and is used by something that is niether conservative or progressive .
To me the rules are about playing fair,helping someone that has fallen down and is hurt, up to rejoin the game.
Yes I make freeper jokes and try to find humor in mass hysteria
I am far from any perfection.To conserve the good rules humans have come up and to progress with technology and population.
I don't have any rules,I just want to play fair because life is a good game and the only game humans may have.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. I have much respect for this post!! n/t
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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
19. Check out the Sermon on the Mount, herr Goebels...
...you might be surprised who stands with the Liberals...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
22. A modicum of respect for others who share your views...
naw, that would be too much to ask.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Yup, I'm thinking it's a little too much to ask also. But try again...
It was a good start. ;)
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. I hope that progressives and liberals share these core tenets:
Concern about our reputation in the world as a nation.

Opposition to the idea that we can treat certain people in our society differently because of ... well, because of anything.

Opposition to the notion of a 'privileged class'.

Support for equal opportunity, and a belief that government can make equal opportunity a reality.

Support for a separation of church and state.

A belief that the rich have an obligation to help the poor succeed.

A passion for making the world a better place for our children and a promise to leave the world in better condition than we inherited it.

A respect for the people of other nations and races and an acknowledgment that they are equally vital members of the human family.

A position that force should only be used as a last resort...

That ought to do to go on.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Who defines 'privileged class'? thus our opposition to it. ? n/t
Once that shit gets started then people try to take from one another what they feel is making another person or persons privilidged. So witch hunts with people taking other peoples stuff, wives, daughters, cattle, husbands, houses, etc.

I'm not feeling the 'priviledged class' thing. Perhaps a better word for it? Isn't it covered in the belief that the rich should have an obligation to help the poor succeed?

By identifying rich are you saying that being rich is o.k. as long as you don't use it to your advantage?
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. It's not opposition to a defined privileged class...
It is opposition to the existence of a privileged class. There is no particular class of people I oppose as "privileged". I oppose anyone who thinks there should be a class of people with special privileges based on race, wealth, success, birth, etc.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Oh, well I can dig that. Do we have a priviledged class now in the US?
If so describe it to me. I have my ideas but I want you to show yours before I show mine. :P
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Sadly, I think we do...
I think the Bushes and such epitomize the notion that by birth you are entitled to something, either a place in public life or immunity from the laws that the rest of us have to follow...

And I think in many instances they are right.
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LiberallyInclined Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
24. There's only ONE 'rule' to being a decent person-
treat everyone and everything with the same respect that you would want/expect to be treated to yourself...

i.e.- "...Do unto others as you would have it that they would do unto you..."
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. You are right!..The golden and platnium rules do apply here. n/t
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
25. Protecting Individual Rights From Govt. & Corporate Abuse
celebrating diversity?

E Pluribus Unum.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. The rights of the individual are the foundation on which Democracy rests
That's why we are Democrats and the Rethuglican Regressives aren't.

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Probably Why We Can Occassionally Agree With Libertarians.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Since some 'Dems' seem to have gone nuts and turned on their own...
I'd considered going Libratarian for a minute. Then I rememberd my worst ever Constitutional Law professor and decided that it wouldnt' be a great idea.
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Funny about that...
...in my experience Libertarians and Liberals aren't that much different. On the Libertarian websites the only consistent rant I see that is really anti-liberal is the one about government leaving everything to the markets (the economics rant). There really is no Libertarian 'good times' they can point to and say, "see, during X period we had a free market and look what good it did!"

But anyway, the point is that when it comes to bashing liberals, libertarians have drunk the same Koolaid the Republicans have been spewing. They don't recognize our similarities.
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Actually, the problem is that most Libertarians ARE Republicans
that may not support a large federal government, but support a kind of stateless fascism nonetheless, most illustrated in the "conservative social institution." I would say that about half of the LP are this type of "confused Repubican," and I think there are about six people in the whole world who happen to understand libertarianism.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. But how about the law suit in OH. They can't be all that bad. Some
are rethuglicans who don't wanna admit it.

Real libratarians are quite amusing in a scary sort of way.

My prof and his wife divorced to avoid fililing joint taxes. Ole' boy was a straight up arrogant bastard. Lil puny man reminded me of Perot.

That was back in the day.
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