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gtp1976 Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:42 PM
Original message
Is Patriotism a bad thing?
I love this country. I really do.

Don't get me wrong, I have some serious issues with the direction in which it seems to be going and I realize that we, as a nation, have some serious challenges ahead of us, but given all its faults, I still love being an "American."

I don't think we are better than any other country. I don't think we are a superior race or any nonsense like that, and I realize that right now "Americans" aren't the most popular folks in the International opinion.

However, I am very patriotic. I love this country. Is this wrong?
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amerikat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. You must be watching nightline
blind patriotism is bad.
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gtp1976 Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Actually, no, was it interesting?
what was it about?
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. No Way, I love my country
I have three "liberal patriot" t-shirts.

I love wearing them and I always get nice comments when I wear them.

Mostly from liberals proud to see someone in it, but occassionally I get a right winger teasing me, but it is always friendly.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Patriotism is good
Nationalism is bad.
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rowire Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. Slippery Slope
Patriotism, like anything else, is okay in moderation. Just don't become an addict.
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gtp1976 Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. as in "we're better than you?"
I don't, nor will I ever subscribe to this POV, I just don't think the USA is as bad as some do.
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. Patriotism isn't bad
Nationalism is, which many reich-wingers in this country confuse with patriotism.
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tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. I am not sure it serves that much of purpose
I prefer Tom Paine's view. "I am a citizen of the world and my religion is to do good."

Why reserve your loyalty and support for one country. More than 200 years after Paine the world is WAY smaller and his view so much more applicable.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. No, nationalism is.
My definitions:

Patriotism is love of one's country.

Nationalism is the belief that one's country is "better" or "infallable".

A patriot will criticize his/her country when they feel it's not being what it should be. A nationalist won't.
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gtp1976 Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Nail...Hammer...Head, IMO
Sorry to use a redneck cliche but I couldn't agree more with your post if I tried. :-)
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rawtribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. I like this Samuel Johnson quote:

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
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makhno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
12. No
If you weren't a patriot, you probably wouldn't give a shit about the dangerous path this nation is following under the current administration. True patriots always hold the government to critical scrutiny, since the government is a mere servant of the people. It is not, as the dogmatic right would have you believe, the nation itself.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
13. it depends, of course

Unfortunately, patriotism these days invariably means the championing of the very limited, corrupt, and colonial society and system of the past. It's all about resurrecting the U.S. of James Jones's "From Here To Eternity".

The potential this country has from its geography and human variety, the way it has overcome itself in the past, the unique opportunity this society has to transform itself into the first truly polycultural, Modern, civilization- there is no way of looking at it without hopefulness and wonder and a certain level of trust. Faith, really. I dunno about love- I'm share Hannah Arendt's view that you can only love individual persons, not a people, in the way you can admire qualities but not appetites- but a tender and passionate faith...that's about the only thing that keeps anyone working against the nutcases, wackos, tools, turds, and morons who want to abuse it all.

I think you should do more travelling overseas. It lends perspective. It makes it harder to overlook the faults of the country, but inspires to more effort to overcome them.
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
14. Patriotism/Nationalism
I agree with what others have stated here already -
Patriotism is good
Nationalism is bad

The only time to question one's patriotism is if it's equated to supporting a war. In other words, if supporting a war is the _only_ definition of patriotism, then that's a false definition and musn't be tolerated.

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KissMeKate Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
15. is motherhood a bad thing?
is apple pie a bad thing?

come on. do you really think a genuine love for ones country (absent nationalism) would be unpopular here?
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jdots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. patriotism is a word
i don't see anyone in a 90 thousand pimped out s.u.v. with flags and ribbons helping the homeless,the hungry,the sick and needy.They claim to be patriots with a support our troops sound bite and let someone elses kid come home wounded and homeless.It's just a word like tax relief or anything they can twist into a profit without working.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
16. There is a phrase called "blind patriotism".
Just because some neo-nazis tell you that you are unpatriotic if you don't accept everything they tell you to accept doesn't make it true. One of my favorite quotes was from Hermann Goering before he was tried at Nuremberg who stated that you could always convince people that it was unpatriotic to question their leaders.

"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." Hermann Goering.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
17. Patriotism is perfectly healthy in normal doses
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 12:38 AM by 0rganism
Like sex, pizza, or web browsing, patriotism has its place in normal everyday life, and comes in many shapes, sizes, and flavors. However, when carried to excess, nearly anything can be dangerous, and patriotism is no exception.

At the risk of overgeneralizing to make a fairly obvious point, a normally patriotic person views at his/her country from the viewpoint of a responsible friend: take a stand against its enemies, help each-other out in hard times, try to do right by it, and intervene when necessary to keep it from permanently harming itself. Generally, the healthy patriot can have a safe and pleasant time living in his/her naturalized country, while being aware that one is in that country and appreciating it for its own special merits. In contrast, an excessively patriotic person becomes like the irresponsible friend who wants to take his country on a raging drinking binge followed by breaking into someone else's house at 2AM to piss on their carpet and steal the silverware.

'nuff said.
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