Just found out my 5yo nephew was molested by his grandmother

[tridim]

Details are sketchy, but apparently about a year ago he spent the night at her house several times and she slept in the nude with him and fondled him during the night. She told him that it wasn't her doing the fondling, but it was "a monster". This all sounds very typical of the crime. All of this is just coming out now, and I just found out this morning.

I'm freaking out because so far, nobody is calling the police. My parents have called child protective services and they didn't suggest calling the police. Why? This lady should be in jail without bail until trial. It's just stunning that SRS doesn't seem to understand how serious this is. I'm making my Mom call them back.

Do you guys agree that she should be arrested immediately? It seems obvious to me. She's an unstable person and I'm afraid what she might do while still free.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm fuming mad. I'm 600 miles away and feel helpless that I can't do anything.

[WI_DEM]

1. Child Protective Services will have to notify the police

I believe it is mandatory in this type of case. If they don't someone should.

[notadmblnd]

2. Protective services will investigate

amd they will press charges.

[Must_B_Free]

3. Maybe you should keep it in perspective

Is involving the facist police industry going to do anything?
Do you want her on Drudge page one?
Do you want to inflate it into a bigger incident for the child?

Someone needs to address it and make sure she can't do it again, but I'm not convinced that the wolves who thrive on this sort of incident are going to do the best thing for the child. I'd be afraid they would just going to turn it into another opportunity to exploit people.

After reflection, calling CPS may in fact be the best thing to do, but I'd think it through fully, first. There may actually be negative ramifications. It may ultimately have the effect of increasing trauma to the child, that's what I'd be worried about.

[Maddy McCall]

7. Oh, Puh-leese!

A child has been MOLESTED. Of course the police must be involved. And, most likely, the child will have a court guardian ad litem when that time comes.

[skypilot]

4. Unstable person.

How old is she? The combination of her age and her instability makes me want to first suggest that she get some kind of mental, physical and pyschological evaluation. I can tell that you are very upset and I would be also but I would try not to immediately declare that she belongs in jail. Just my thought but you're closer to the situation than I am.

[tridim]

12. I think she's in her early 50's

I understand what you're saying, but there was a crime committed. Certainly the law might determine that she would do better in a mental institution instead of prison. I thought that's what the legal system was for? Maybe I'm just naive.

She's certainly not going to check herself in, and she doesn't respond to advice from her daughter or my Mom. I just think the seriousness of the situation warrants kicking things up a notch. I don't doubt for a second that she'd attempt to kidnap my nephew. That's why I'm worried.

[skypilot]

19. I was just wondering...

...if Alzheimer's or some other neurological disorder could account in any way for her behavior but I suppose you'll find out soon enough. In the meantime, I'm really sorry that you, your nephew and your family have to go through this.

[Ms Chicklet]

5. Thinking good thoughts for the nephlet

And I hope they throw the book at that grandmother. She desecrated one of the most important relationships in a child's life.

[Midlodemocrat]

6. She must be held accountable

...because she will continue to do it, if not to your nephew to another child. And, your nephew should never be alone with her unsupervised, ever.

[Must_B_Free]

8. And the child is now a "carrier" of the molestation event

thus at high risk of reproducing this behaviour as an adult.

[Modem Butterfly]

25. That's silly

I don't believe that one incident in early childhood makes one a carrier of anything that isn't bacterial or viral. That's not at all fair to the millions of people who have survived sexual assaults and not gone on to molest anyone.

When I was eight I got felt up by a church Deacon at a wedding. Yet I am proud to say the only people I've felt up were over 18 and were asking for it loud and clear (and I do mean CLEAR! ;) )

[Midlodemocrat]

37. Actually, no it isn't.

Stastistics bear out the fact that most sexual predators were molested or raped as children.

[Modem Butterfly]

39. Yes, it is

Statistics also show that most survivors do not go on to become abusers themselves. Also, psychology shows that there are several factors that turn someone from a survivor into a perpetrator, that childhood trauma alone (paricularly one incident) isn't enough.

So the idea that this one incident has "infected" this child and turned him into a likely future pedophile? Bullshit. Pure and simple.

[Midlodemocrat]

40. This is a study commissioned in1995 that refutes that.

<snip>

Likelihood of arrest for sex crimes

Could it be that additional breakdowns of types of
offenses would reveal greater risk for individuals
who were sexually abused in childhood? Previous
research indicating that these people are more
likely to be arrested for sex crimes suggests this
might be the case.

Sex crimes in general. Arrest records revealed
that, compared to children who had not been
victimized, those who had been were more likely to
be arrested for sex crimes. Thus, experiencing any
type of abuse/neglect in childhood increases the
risk for sex crimes. Children who were sexually
abused were about as likely as neglect victims to
be arrested for any sex crime and less likely than
victims of physical abuse.

Calculating the odds that abused and neglected
children will subsequently be arrested for sex
crimes as adults confirmed the statistics on
likelihood of arrest. For abused and neglected
children in general, the odds of being arrested as
adults for a sex crime were higher than for
nonvictims. Among sexually abused children, the
odds were 4.7 times higher. Among physically
abused children, the odds of arrest as adults for
a sex crime were only a bit less--more than four
times higher than for the controls. Neglected
children were also at increased risk of subsequent
arrest for a sex crime (2.2 times the rate for the
controls).


http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/abuse.txt

[Modem Butterfly]

44. You need to re-read your link.

From the link you provided:

But an important finding of this
study is that, in cases of sexual abuse, the risk
is no greater than for other types of
maltreatment. In other words, the victims of
sexual abuse are no more likely than
other victims to become involved with crime.

SNIP

The same is true for sex crimes. People victimized
by sexual abuse as children are also significantly
more likely than nonvictims to be arrested for a
sex crime, although no more so than victims of
physical abuse and neglect.

This similarity among all three groups of
maltreatment victims suggests that for sexual
abuse victims, the criminal effect later in life
may result not from the specifically sexual nature
of the incident but rather from the trauma and
stress of these early childhood experiences or
society's response to them.

SNIP

Childhood sexual abuse victims
were not at greater risk later in life of arrest
for rape or sodomy. Rather, the findings reveal an
association between these crimes and childhood
physical abuse, not sexual abuse. Males who were
physically abused in childhood showed a greater
tendency than other abused and neglected children
and the controls to be arrested for these types of
sex crimes.

SNIP

In fact the majority of the sexually
abused children in this study do not have an
official criminal history as adults. Long-term
consequences of childhood sexual abuse may be
manifest across a number of domains of
psychological distress and dysfunction, but not
necessarily in criminal behavior.



Once again, most survivors do not go on to become abusers themselves and psychology (and your studyw that there are several factors that that turn someone into a perpetrator, including "simple" physical abuse and neglect.

[Midlodemocrat]

48. Am I missing something?

The same is true for sex crimes. People victimized
by sexual abuse as children are also significantly
more likely than nonvictims to be arrested for a
sex crime, although no more so than victims of
physical abuse and neglect.

This similarity among all three groups of
maltreatment victims suggests that for sexual
abuse victims, the criminal effect later in life
may result not from the specifically sexual nature
of the incident but rather from the trauma and
stress of these early childhood experiences or
society's response to them.


This pretty much sums up what I was attempting to say.

on edit:

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Jf5JsOdW7Q0J:www.co.whatcom.wa.us/sheriff/sexoffenders/pedophile.jsp+%22child+molestation%22+adulthood&hl=en

I think perhaps we could do this all day, finding study after study to confirm/deny what we each believe, so maybe we will just have to agree to disagree.

[Modem Butterfly]

50. Clearly we're talking past each other

The kid's life is not ruined. He is not a "carrier" of the abuse who will go on to almost certainly molest someone else. He, like other survivors of other childhood traumas, may have a risk factor. But, as your study itself states, most survivors don't go on to have criminal records.

[Midlodemocrat]

52. I got something completely different from the study

that there is a higher incidence of perpetuating the behavior, perhaps not from the abuse itself, but a combination of the reaction from society and the abuse.

I agree with the part of the study that states it is imperative that he get help, immediately.

[Modem Butterfly]

55. Yeah, I got this:

In fact the majority of the sexually
abused children in this study do not have an
official criminal history as adults. Long-term
consequences of childhood sexual abuse may be
manifest across a number of domains of
psychological distress and dysfunction, but not
necessarily in criminal behavior.

I think we're saying nearly the same thing here. Yes, I agree the kid needs help and the family needs counseling. And granny needs to go to jail for a long, long time.

[amazona]

62. thanks madame butterfly

I'm tired of being labeled as damaged and I think a lot of people who have abuse in their past feel the same but are afraid to say so. You don't even want to admit what you went through, because others assume that you too are a monster.

People can create self-fulfilling prophecies when they lose perspective.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[wicket]

63. same here

:( I've seen some studies that as many as 2 in 5 women will be molested or rsexually assaulted at some point in their lives, but only a tiny portion go on to be abusers themselves. Even a small amount is too many, it's time to stop the cycle of abuse!

:hug:

[Maddy McCall]

9. The child should NEVER have to have any sort of contact with her...

ever again, period.

[tridim]

14. That's exactly what I said to my Mom.

And I told her to relay it to my brother.

[Red State Rebel]

17. Absolutely true...

The emotional damage of having to see this person again is terrible. The nephew needs to be constantly reassured that it was not his fault and that this person needs to be and will be punished.

[Solly Mack]

10. How's your nephew holding up? His parents?

:hug: to all

They will investigate. I'm so incredibly sorry this is happening to your nephew.

[tridim]

16. I don't know yet

I've only talked to my Mom about it.

I saw my nephew over Xmas and he seemed fine, but this was before anyone knew what was going on.

[CTLawGuy]

11. I hope she doesn't get slapped on the wrist

like other female molesters.

[Union Thug]

13. If it were my child, the slap wouldn't be on the wrist.

Nor would it be a slap.

[Red State Rebel]

15. You are correct - police should be notified immediately!

Not just for the horrible thing she did to this child, but for the mental wellbeing of the child in the future.

One of the most damaging things an abuse victim deals with is having told someone about the abuse and not being believed - not having something done about it.

I told my grandmother the night after my grandfather molested me and she did nothing! I went for years thinking I had done something wrong until one night I told my sister who in turn went to my parents immediately.

The feeling of betrayal towards my grandmother was terrible.

[demodonkey]

18. No matter the cost, get the child away from her and GET HIM HELP. NOW.

This will be with him all his life.

I only hope that he gets good therapy and it can help.

[tridim]

22. I hope so too

Unfortunately my brother is a typical paycheck to paycheck, near poverty level, lower class guy. His health insurance sucks, and his girlfriend (the mother) is next to worthless. My parents will certainly help him out, but it shouldn't have to be that way. Therapy for things like this should be 100% free. *sigh*..

[demodonkey]

28. It might be. There usually is some help available for something like this.

OTOH, the perp could be sued and asked to pay for the therapy, or it could be ordered as part of her sentence if found guilty.

[KurtNYC]

56. Believing the child and precluding further contact with the

rapist are a good start and don't cost anything. Sounds like your nephew is lucky to have your attention and concern.

[SouthernDem2004]

20. If CPS did not contact the Police then you should..

Even if you live in a different state call that city's Police Department. They will have to choice but to investigate.

[Cuban_Liberal]

21. If Child Protective services doesn't notify the police, YOU do it.

I hope it's not true, but if it is, hope they lock he up and throw away the key!

:grr:

[AP]

23. I hope this woman gets psychological help.

And I hope the nephew does too.

[UdoKier]

24. Is this story consistent with your experience of her character?

Kids that age tell a LOT of fanciful stories. God only knows mine do. If she seems otherwise normal and nice, wait a few days, then ask the child to recount the story again, and see if it's consistent, and make sure to stay calm and relaxed when you ask about it.

The whole molestation incident at Manhattan Beach was eventually found to be the fictitious stories of overzealous child therapists and highly suggestible kids.


All I'm saying is, I'd want to be pretty sure before hurling accusations of that sort.

[tridim]

26. I've never met her

but my Mom, my Brother and his GF (the grandmother's daughter) all say she's crazy as a loon. She's also in an abusive relationship of her own. You may ask why his parents let him spend the night in the first place. Believe me, I'm asking the same question.

[troubleinwinter]

27. OP says the grandmother does not deny it.

She told him that it wasn't her doing the fondling, but it was "a monster" She's either unbalanced or just pretending to be.... dangerous, either way.

Whether she denies it or not does not matter. I am glad it has been reported to CPS, and they WILL contact the police.

The child's mother is "next to worthless"? Is this the daughter of the grandmother? It does make you wonder if she had been victimized as a child as well and never got the support and protection she needed.

[tridim]

29. Yes, she's the daughter of the grandmother

I completely agree that she probably needs help too for repressed childhood trauma. I hope all this stuff will come out in therapy.

[demodonkey]

30. A "monster" did it? OMG -- GET HELP, NOW!

What if the "monster" makes her kill the kid next time?

This woman sounds like she is really ill and desperately needs help!

[fishwax]

33. The monster was her excuse to the nephew

if I read the original post correctly, not her explanation when confronted by rational adults.

But I agree with you that the woman needs treatment. And to be kept the hell away from the nephew and other children, at least until some sense can be made.

[tridim]

38. That's correct..

"A monster did it" was either her excuse to my nephew, or his coping mechanism. Again, the details are sketchy at this point.

[dryan]

34. Sorry...

about the situation. Is this woman related to you or is he his mother's mother? I was in a situation like this when I was 12 - call Protective Services. This woman needs to be investigated.

[UdoKier]

36. I'm pretty sure the OP is referring to what the G-Ma told the kid.

I saw nothing saying that the adults involved ever confronted her.

[SmokingJacket]

35. And it happened a year ago?

A year is a long time for a young child.

Before we put this woman in jail and throw away the key, I'd make absolutely sure the story is true.

Kids have a hazy sense of reality, sometimes: my son told me this morning that a sad ghost was sitting on his bookshelf last night.

If it IS true, the woman certainly needs help.

[fishwax]

31. I would notify the police

if CPS didn't do it, I would. These things can have serious long-term ramifications, and i wish you and yours all the best in dealing with the situation. :cry: :grr: :grouphug:

Thank you for being so concerned about the well-being of the kid, and good thoughts to you and your nephew.

[burn the bush]

32. tell them to remain cool in front of the child

i'm not saying that something shouldn't be done. It's just that most of the damage to the child is from the guilt that we as society put on the actions. So while he needs treatment, the screaming and crying that I know I would be doing will only make him feel more guilty.

[patcox2]

41. Wise advice.

So, I am sure I will get flamed, but there are studies indicating that in some cases the fuss and drama over the incident is more damaging to the child than the incident, the guilt over getting grandmom arrested, etc.

[Bridget Burke]

53. Please--which studies are these?

Are you saying families should accept child abuse? Other studies seem to indicate that suppressing abuse can lead to problems. Not to mention problems for any other children molested.

Surely, an investigation is needed--false accusations are not unknown. But Grandmom's feelings are not the primary concern here.

[Midlodemocrat]

54. That is 100% correct.

[pdxmom]

42. I don't know what state you're in, but you can guarantee

that CPS is a mandatory reporter...if there is any hint of sexual abuse, they are required to report that to the District Attorney, who will then get involved.

Chances are pretty high that if she can make bail, she'll be out until trial. Her release conditions will not allow her to have any contact with your nephew, though. As for jail time, it probably won't be a lot of time, but if found guilty, she will spend the rest of her life as a registered sex offender.

I wish you the best of luck. Stay strong.

[Lex]

43. He was 4 when this happened? She has admitted to it?

Is this correct?

[Sparkle]

45. What kind of woman would get off fondling a 5 year old????

Geeze.

[seabeyond]

46. shouldnt the parents be dealing with this, making these decisions

is there a reason why not. seems like their role, not yours or your mom

[Lex]

47. Before everyone decides to throw Grandma under the jail

there needs to be a proper investigation of this.

Yes, it's a heinous thing, but everyone needs to calmly investigate the circumstances.

Has she admitted it?

Has the child been evaluated?

[seabeyond]

51. well absolutely, adn all a 5 year old,

now six a year later. you are right. i still think it should be in the hands of the parents. am curious why not.

[Old Mouse]

49. I'm so sorry for your pain, and that of your family

You should support the parents, and help them deal with this as best as possible. I don't think they need your advice as much as your support right now.

The media can become obsessed with female abusers, and their intrusion could make this much more traumatic than it already is. Too quick a call to the police could bring this as well. Child protective services should be quite experienced in all of the aspects of handling this. Even if they are not, give some time for the parents to come to terms with what they must do.

Your feeling of helplessness is natural. There is nothing you, or probably anybody could have done to protect your nephew. No one doubts you would have tried anything you could have thought of.

[Sgent]

57. A couple of thoughts

from someone who works in this field.

You can pretty much give up the idea that this lady will be arrested today -- it doesn't happen like that. In my state, CPS will investigate, and then call the police or District Attorney if they believe its warrented. If you call the police, they refer the case to CPS for investigation. In my state arrests don't happen until a grand jury indictment.

What needs to happen is this child need to get to a Children's Advocacy Center (www.nationalcac.org). Here, they have a multi-displinary team of physicians, social workers, counselors, etc. They are experts in forensic exams, and on the treatment that needs to come next. They have the facilities for gathering evidence such has video cameras, two way mirrors, colposcopes, and experts trained in how to use them. They will also have resources available such as the Victims Crime Compensation Fund which can be used to pay for treatment, as well as for missed time of work, etc.

After that, you will have a much better idea of what actually happened, and of the future steps. They will be familiar with who actually handles these issues -- your local CPS, police, or DA directly.

[Lex]

58. "a much better idea of what actually happened"

I think it is best to keep in mind that no one probably has a grasp of that at this point.

[Hamlette]

59. I worked in juvenile court for years

I in NO way want you to think I condone the grandmother's behavior BUT, I saw much more damage done by the "system" than by the "act."

By system I mean to include the hysteria on the part of many people surrounding the child.

I have talked to many women who had "similar" events in their childhood. I did too. All were foundlings. I never reported it and neither did they and we all agree we were better off for not reporting it. None of us had scars from the "act". It might be hard to understand if you've not had the experience. I don't think the man who did it to me was sick or dangerous. He was just a lonely old man who wanted to squeeze a girl's butt now and again. If I'd reported him I might have ruined his life and mine in the process. I've seen what witnesses go though in court in these types of cases. I would honestly think twice before I put anyone through it. Yes, especially my own kid.

I honestly believe that making too much of these kinds of things can do more damage.

I don't espect many here to agree with me. But I've seen it. There are factors to be weighed. Consider the child. If the child is not affected now, will he be by making him testify against his grandmother? How will that affect his relationship with his parents, even subconsciously. Those scars can be much deeper.

[Sgent]

60. I agree

with you that the system can be much worse than the problem in some cases.

However, at this point we don't know the extent of the problem. As an adult we are better able to process our feelings -- good and bad, about the situation. A perspective that a kid may not have.

Not all states, nor all solutions, require testimony in court. The goal is to help the child, and prevent it from happening again. I've seen 100's of perps, and many of them don't belong in prison IMHO, but many do.

[amazona]

61. can you even be sure this is true?

It doesn't sound right to me. It sounds like a 5yo kid had a bad dream while at Granny's house. Don't destroy two lives over this.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Bridget Burke]

64. It needs to be investigated by the authorities.

As explained on this thread, the grandmother won't be sent to jail immediately. There are child advocates & social workers who can deal with this initially. And if charges are filed, there will be a trial.