Help finding Founding Father quotes re: Separation of

[bobbyboucher]

Church and State. I have seen some very powerful quotes from Jefferson I believe with regard to organized religion, at least I think it was Jefferson.

I need some ammunition in order to reply to many pledge/Christian spam emails I am getting.

I am not sure what phrasing to use in my search.

Any help?

[Az]

1. Two very rich sources for this subject

www.infidels.org and www.positiveatheism.com

The Infidels site has a very large library of information detailing these arguments. Lots of quotes and very complete arguments presented. Positive atheism has a very useful collection of quotes (and the infamous list of scary quotes as well).

[bobbyboucher]

2. Wow, thanks so much.

Peace.

[EVDebs]

3. Founders used 'steganography' to discuss TGAOTU

The founders were mostly Freemasons, whose origins were from the betrayed Knights Templar. Long story.

Short of it is KTs used the 'open secret' form of communication. George Washington, freemason, would speak of The Great Architect of the Universe (gee, guess who that could be) to get around a lot of hassles. His letter to the synagogue in Rhode Island is read annually too, so tolerance is a BIG part of Freemasonry.

BTW, the red white and blue of the flag are from the colors of the 3rd,1st, and 2nd degrees in that order of masonry.

The french "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" comes from the masonic motto also. What else... Oh, Washington DC's street layout is on masonic grids and guess where that obilisk is in the "G" pattern within the compass and square starting with capitol steps ? Washington Monument. Makes you wonder about that movie National Treasure now doesn't it !

[gottaB]

4. "Wall of Separation" is a Jefferson quote

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Wall_of_Separation

Here's some more from Madison, Jefferson et al:

http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=resources_founding


And the Thomas Jefferson Digital Archives:

http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/


And the searchable loc collection of Thomas Jefferson papers

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/jefferson_papers/


A small list of Jefferson quotations on church and state:

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1650.htm

[donkeyotay]

5. there's a great read on this topic

called "The Godless Constitution: the case against religious correctness." by Isaac Krammick and R. Laurence Moore, 1996.

There's a ton of good stuff in this book - much of it about Jefferson.

The book refutes the Religious Right's claims of a Christian nation or commonwealth pointing out that this battle was fought at the time the Constitution was written:

"That's not what happened in 1987. God and Christianity are nowhere to be found in the American Constitution, a reality that infuriated many at the time. The US Constitution, drafted in 1787 and ratified in 1788, is a godless document. It's utter neglect of religion was no oversight; it was apparent to all." (27)

This book also tells a part of Jefferson's story that I'm sure he would love to be known far and wide. Part of it relates to the Jefferson Memorial... the quote in the rotunda, "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Well, as it turns out Jefferson actually was a Christian, a fact that he kept completely private, but the quote came from a letter in which he was complaining about the priests in the churches in Philadelphia who were bad-mouthing him during the election. If there is any doubt about what a low opinion Jefferson had of priests meddling in politics, here's this quote in a letter to Adams written after they had left politics:

" 'We should all, then, like Quakers, live without an order of priests' who he called 'genus irritabile vatum' (the irritable tribe of priests) likening them to aristocrats, saying 'the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.' " (98)