Question about communal living

[Nederland]

Those of you who know me may think I've lost it, or suddenly seen the light, depending on your point of view.

My wife an I purchased a small farm in Boulder County CO last January. The farm was originally 70 acres that was sub-divided into 68 acres of open space (owned by Boulder county) and a two acre lot (owned by us). The two acre lot I purchased has a run down farmhouse built in 1905 and is currently occupied by college age renters. The original plan was to build a new house on the property and live there happily ever after.

So my wife and I are talking about what kind of house we'd like to build, and she asks me how I feel about communal living. Given that I am one the few a defenders of blood sucking capitalism on this board, it should come as no surprise that my first reaction was to think that communal living was a failed 1960's experiment embraced by pot smoking hippie socialists :) After a short bit of googling, I learn although it is true that many of these places died out after a few years, some of them continue on to this day. I'm still reading about them.

I know 2 acres is rather small, but we weren't think of some sort of classic, huge self sustaining farming community. More like a huge house for 3 or 4 couples and their kids (my wife and I have a 20 month old daughter)--maybe 16 people max.

The question is, does anyone out there have any first hand experience with this type of thing? Did it work? What legal arrangement were made? Anything experience anyone has had would be of interest.

FYI, I'm off to bed now, but will check this in the morning.

[karlrschneider]

1. I have no answers but will kick this for you and wish you luck.

My first blush impression is that it can certainly 'work' but it seems to me there would need to be a LOT of give and less take, as it were, to sustain it. There have been some communes in the USA that have worked out for extended periods (and of course in other parts of the world) but I don't think it comes easy. (FWIW, it's something I and my SO have sort of considered for many years but never quite managed to dredge up the courage to actually try.) If you don't have a lot to lose, why not give it a shot, though? Good luck in any case.

[serryjw]

2. The fantasy of living in Nederland

I live in D/T Denver. I think the idea of living in a large house with 3-4 families is a fun idea but naive. Too difficult to find totally compatible people and no one would have any privacy......But I was thinking someday i would like to do what your doing and but a few acres and put on several of the below.We live together and support each other, build a garden to grow enough basic food. I have been following this compnay for a while....I love what they make.......BTW I'nm single!

http://www.pacificdomes.com/

[Nederland]

15. Good point on privacy

I suppose the key would be to design the house so it has some areas specifically designated as public and others as private and restricted to one family. That would increase the size and the cost of the house of course...

Actually, the farm is located in east Boulder county around 95th street, which means I'm going to have to leave Nederland eventuallly :( I think I'll keep my DU name though...

[serryjw]

32. Did you like my domes?

The house would have to be HUGE with a wing for each family. You better like kids because you will have a bunch.

[Senior citizen]

3. If you own the property

and have more money than any other resident, communal living will be lots of fun. Nothing like having your own little fiefdom--just ask Dubya.

[politicat]

4. PM me. I've lived in a couple of share houses and group houses.

They can work, if you lay out ground rules from the beginning, are willing to have big community meetings a couple times a week, and don't have sex outside of the dyad. (You'd not believe how often communes come down to partner swapping... :eyes: ) The other thing you have to do is give up ideas of "I own this house so I make the rules" because then it becomes an ego trip. Everyone who lives in a space has to have some ownership, even if it's something on the lines of a stock partnership. Why go into a communal setting if someone's going to just use it as an ego massage after all is said and done?

They can be really fulfilling. I'd suggest you come down to Boulder and go talk to the people at Thistle co-housing...

And if you want, I am in Boulder 2-3 days a week, and after mid Feb, we'll be living in N. Boulder. I'd be glad to F2F at a coffee shop or something.

Pcat

[Why Syzygy]

12. hmmm

"partner swapping" :eyes:

hmmm .. I can imagine.

[Nederland]

16. Agreed

The ownership question has to be addressed in a legal and unambiguous manner. While I currently own the whole farm, I'd be willing to incorporate and divide ownership up via stock. I've read a bit about coomunities that were joint stock companies and those seem to work better than others. Its seems that you have to give people a reasonably liquid means of entering and exiting the group.

I'll PM you with contact info and I'd love to meet.

[The empressof all]

5. Co-housing

There are a number of sucessful communities build around co-housing model. Generally each family has their own private living space and share community living/kitchen area. Many communities share several meals per week, share chores and community up-keep.

I think it is an interesting way to live and have thought about developing my 5 acres into a co-housing community in the future.


http://www.cohousing.org/

[Nederland]

17. Thanks

An interesting link with lots of good ideas.

[Historic NY]

6. There is one going strong in the Utica area of NY....

More than a few houses and families. I don't have any other details but read about it recently in the paper.

[Peak_Oil]

7. I had a great time at military school

with 50 roommates. We did have a central authority and could be expelled for any violence, so YMMV.

I don't see why it wouldn't work. Did you live with your parents for an extended period of time? Or, do you have Asian friends who were expected to live at home for long periods of time? They might be able to clue you in on some of the ups/downs of that kind of thing.

[SoCalDem]

8. Could be successful, BUT

Income would be a BIG issue. You would be, essentially, the landlord, with all the baggage that entails.
As you make friends with these people, it's hard to not cut them slack in emergencies, but before long, you could be footing the bill, and have basically "adopted" a whole bunch of people..

Perhaps you could turn it into "cottages" for the others, with the downstairs of the main house, as the gathering/open-to-all space..

Of course there are big things to consider.. heating, water, sewage, etc..

Why not turn your place into a B&B?? That way you would get paying guests when you wanted them, and privacy when you did not :)

[vpigrad]

9. The cops are the problem.

If one person in the house has drugs, the police can steal your home and land. Communal living used to make sense legally, but now with our overbearing police-society, it won't work unless you share the house with just the right people.

Also, check your zoning laws. I'm not allowed to have more than two other people, that I'm not related to, stay in my house. I got a $250 ticket in 1991 when the police found-out I was letting a guy I work with and his wife stay with us until they found a job.

Also, my great-niece ended-up homeless when a house her and nine other girls were living in was stolen by the police. The police claimed that one of the girl's boyfriends was cutting coke in the basement. Fortunately for them, the president of the college was sympathtic to them after the president herselfs had had quite a few run-ins with the local cops, so they had a free place to stay for a few weeks until they found other arrangements.

[queerart]

14. Wow! I Never Thought Of That!

>>>>If one person in the house has drugs, the police can steal your home and land<<<

And you are so right! I never considered that! As they sure could... take it all in a blink of an eye, if they wanted to be hard nosed!

As for zoning... mine is no more than 4 unrelated people in a home in my neighborhood... But I guess a family of 16 could move in, as long as they were blood related.........


You had many good insights on this idea!

[Nederland]

18. Thanks

I'll have to look into Boulder's zoning laws to learn more.

[queerart]

10. Ok... This Is A Link To A Gay Communal Living Place

And I am aware that you are straight, But they are kind folks, and deal with people of all Tribes.

They are Radical Faries, and have run communal living at Short Mountain for years. They know of many other folks that you can speak with as well. Another communal living place that comes to mind is on the Big Island of Hawai'i.........

(just a note) If you visit their site.. they are Radical Faries, and wearing clothes does not seem to be one of their strong points...


www.rfdmag.org/index.html

[Why Syzygy]

11. little old hippy here

never acutally lived communally.. but the idea has ALWAYS intrigued me.

And, yes, there are many commuities out there.
I WANNA GO!

This first appealed to me when I heard of "kibbutz" while in high school.
Not so sure those turned out right, but I love the idea of community living.

Old hippy.
Never extinct.

[Kenergy]

13. Try this:

Google Ecovillage at Ithaca; check them out and then click on links
which will lead you to similar communal groups. Good luck.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

19. Do you perhaps have a co-housing community in mind?

In co-housing, people buy their housing space and become part owners of the cooperative that manages the whole setup, and while everyone has their own living space, they have one or more communal meals and social events per week and own all maintenance equipment in common.

Here's an example of a long-standing co-housing community just outside of Minneapolis:

http://www.jimn.org/mococo/

[Southpaw Bookworm]

20. Cohousing Association of the U.S.

I'd contact them for information.

http://www.cohousing.org/

[noamnety]

21. I don't know about the commune stuff

But you should look into building a cob house or cob/rammed earth/hay bale earthship - you could have all the members actually build it themselves.

(mainly so I can live vicariously through you)

[sweetheart]

22. How hmmmm...

Architecture is critical to the whole thing, IMO, as if you
design the house like a star, with each family on a point
of the star, and the communal space in the middle, then
there is a clear "apartment" and you can use the legal
structure of a condominium to guide the development that
if one member has the-drug-example, the problem is contained to one
member's share. If it is designed right, then everyone can
enter and exit privately, or through the public rooms.

Making the public rooms with a workout area, maybe sauna/hottub
and a big well lit space, more so than any individual dwelling
will pull people out of their privates for the best of community,
good food, exercise, and a sense of extended family.

It would never work with me, as i'd first thing, after a lovely meal
want to light up a joint for dessert, and i'd want to do that in
the communal space of the hot tub, and certainly would not feel at
home if i could not do that in the space... so i guess you have to ask
potential members quite a few questions. As well, nudity, as many
are around the house...

Soundproofing would be exceptionally important, as the lack of it
between spaces would only create problems... and corporate rules and
a corporate structure for the overall building, with boardmeetings
decisions, shares, rights to dissent and the whole thing. Frankly,
if you've done the legals right, then it will be clean, even with
a disagreement.

Best fortune to you in this.... :-)

[Nederland]

23. Good ideas

Thanks.

[IrateCitizen]

24. Hi Nederland!

I'm surprised (albeit in a pleasant way) to see you talking about these issues. I'm a big fan of cohousing -- although my wife is admantly opposed to it, in spite of my attempts to convince her that her dream of "a big house with a yard" is completely environmentally unsustainable, and that cohousing would offer plenty of privacy in addition to the bonuses of a shared community.

The Cohousing links provided by others on this site are a good starting place. You also might want to check out the Simple Living Network (http://www.simpleliving.net) to see if they have anything on cohousing and communal living, which I'm certain they do.

In any event, good luck with all of this, and let us know how it's going!

[Nederland]

30. Thanks

I'm familiar with Simple Living. Its a great starting point for finding links and other resources.

[Cleita]

25. You'er not going to get much farming done on two acres other

than as a hobby especially if you need to support three or four other families. We have two and a half acres with only two families. Although we grow a few veggies and fruits for our own consumption, the work is very time consuming and has to be done on weekends because everyone works at regular jobs.

On edit: Here in California we can grow stuff year around. In Colorado, wouldn't you be shut down during winter?

[IrateCitizen]

26. Reread his post -- he's not interested in self-sustainability...

He's interested in just putting up a communal house on the property as opposed to single-family living.

[Cleita]

27. Actually, my neighbor has put up a bunch of mobile homes

on her property and rents them out. Something like this with a community hall might work better with them sharing in the horticultural duties as a community.

[AnnInLa]

28. Some resources to check out:

How weird...just this weekend, I was thinking and reading and searching the internet on just this subject. Here are some resources I discovered:

www.cohousingco.com

www.elderspirit.net

www.silversagevillage.com

www.eldercohousing.org

A book by Diana Leafe Christian: Creating a Life Together; Practical Tools to Grow Ecovillages and Intentional Communities

It looks like cohousing is not just for seniors, but for mixed ages, races, income levels...for diverse communities who come together in community spirit and cooperation. Do a search on cohousing and see what you find.

I would want to live in a LIBRUL cohousing community though...can you imagine moving into a "commune" or cohousing community and find out they are all wingers? Yikes.

[Nederland]

35. That would be scary

Fortunately the other couples my wife and I have in mind are long time friends--not a winger among them.

[Tsiyu]

29. Google "Intentional Communities"

You will find some good info on sharing living space/real estate.

I also have this goal only much larger. My four acres isn't large enough. My plan is a large family compound ( haha) with small cottages and a central dining/kitchen/entertainment area. The idea is to bring the older family members in so that they can be secure, have regular meals and nice areas to relax. Combine that with the horse camp and music and I'd be in heaven!

The issues you would want to consider concerning potential residents in your case are:

Childrearing philosophies ( do they scream at kids, spank?)

Dietary needs

Sleep schedules

Medical issues

Housekeeping habits

Yardwork potential

Drinking/420 tolerance or lack thereof

What will you provide? All in one payment or dividing up expenses? ( you'd be surprised how much water/electricity one extra person can use.)

I couldn't share a home with many families because of my nature ( like lots of ALONE time at home) but I can see the wisdom in sharing real estate given the economy and the wastefulness of "subdivision living." Watching the mountain families - who share housing, land - I see how they support and sustain one another even when the economy sucks. Community is GOOD. Hope your idea works.

[Why Syzygy]

31. Reluctant to post this .. but

lookie here >
http://www.harbin.org/

It's a commune with a mission. Ahhhhh...

[poe]

33. communities can work

where i live in upstate new york there are numerous communities of all shapes and sizes. some in towns and some in rural. there is an ecovillage in ithaca,ny which works quite well but is kinda procey and their are several co-housing situations which have also sustained themselves through the years. for a ton of info and listings all around the US get a book titled THE COMMUNITY DIRECTORY. it is put out every 5 years and is a great resource. available at bookstores and certainly at the library in Boulder. Check out THE FARM community in tennessee, it's been going for thirty years and those folk rock. we got to get back to community for energy purposes and for our need for connection to others.

[AngryAmish]

34. Tens of millions of Americans live like this

They are called alternatively condominiums or co-operatives.

[Carni]

36. I lived with a sister in law once

I should say she and her son lived with us but we ended up paying all the bills and she took over our house -- it was not an ideal utopia by any stretch of the imagination.

I guess if all else failed it would be OK (although I think the reason this was so popular in the 60's, is because you have to be young idealistic and very high to put up with other people in your space)

I think it's a good plan in times of international or economic crisis but it wouldn't be my first choice (although frankly bush's second term may just qualify... so don't ask me!)

[Armstead]

37. Think of it as having tenants

That way it has that nice capitalist ring to it. :-)