Argument w/ a friend equating Black Panthers violence w/ the KKK

[clem_c_rock]

I know this is probably stupid to even bring this up. But maybe someone can prove me wrong.

In a debate w/ a friend who was claiming the Black Panthers were
a very violent organization that was the equivelent to the KKK.

I was claiming it was primarily fabricated by the FBI (IE the coloring book debacle), the Nixon adminstration, and the media.

Does anyone have any information that would back his claim supporting the "High incidence of Black Panther violence"?

[The Backlash Cometh]

1. Well, I do believe there were photographs of them welding weapons.

When their headquarters were stormed a la Waco style, I don't think there was a peep of disagreement from even the mainstream black organizations. But, I was very, very young then and I may have missed something important.

[NoPasaran]

2. The Black Panthers advocated

African-Americans arming themselves for self-defense and therefor scared us white folks shitless in the 60s, but I don't recall them actually committing violence. Most of the violence they were associated with seemed to be committed by the cops and FBI AGAINST them.

[autorank]

3. Violence sucks period, so does your friend on this issue.

The Panthers arose from the streets in Oakland. They had a social-welfare component and also a protection group. There were violent incidents. In fact, the Panthers actually broke one of their members out of a CA state prison in broad day light. There were armed confrontations with the police and FBI. A number of cases were brought against them. At the time and later, I followed these a bit and was amazed that the government lost most of them! These were brought in courts that were usually pro prosecution which told me that the cops were messing around also. Remember, this is the same FBI that conspired with Hoover to come up with ways to cause MLK to suicide; obviously an organization with sick and violent element at that time.

The KKK goes out and either randomly or deliberately attacks black people, tortures them, and more. The Panthers didn't randomly attack any white people. In fact, they worked in coalition with whites and Hispanics. Entirely different organizations.

[clem_c_rock]

6. This is what my information was pointing at too

I'm always willing to be proved wrong.

Just wanted to know if I was way off base.

[autorank]

12. You're on target!

The Panthers had some problems and there may be instances of violence against police that are claimed to be Panther-initiated. However, they are not even close to the Klan and there is evidence that some law enforcement at the time targeted them. Check out the prison break. It's an amazing story. Good luck.

[DrWeird]

13. Yeah, but that door swings both ways.

Uniformed police officers did a drive-by of Party Headquarters, luckily nobody was in at the time.

[autorank]

16. Totally agree. The Panthers were truly tough guys. The police often

behaved like thugs with any form of dissent. I have no doubt about the 'drive-by.' It was a very intense time.

[DrWeird]

4. Ku Klux Klan = mob lynchings

Black Panthers = school breakfasts

[knowbody0]

9. hey dr

i was at hunters point mingling with panthers. the ones i knew were inspired, intense and f'ing awesome. i loved and miss my time with them.
peaceout

[HawkerHurricane]

5. Let's see...

Any Black Panthers happen to be county/city/state law enforcement turning a blind eye on their organization's illegal activities?

Any Blank Panthers elected to congress?

Any Black Panthers allowed to serve on a jury where a Black Panther was on trial?

Any lynchings by Black Panthers? Any photos in the newspapers of lynchings by Black Panthers, with captions stating approval? Any photos of lynchings by Black Panthers with members of law enforce IN UNIFORM watching and not preventing the crime/arresting those responsible?

No?

I guess the Black Panthers aren't the equals to the KKK after all.

[jeffrey_X]

15. bingo

nm

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. They were

pretty violent but also did some good things, unlike the KKK. So while both orgs advocated violence, the Black Panthers also tried to focus on improving their community. Here's a good link:

The Black Panthers not only fought racism with violent retaliation, but they also provided food to about 200,000 children everyday. They also had health clinics and free food services. Later though, the Panthers dropped the self-defense policy and became more of a revolutionary group. They believed that a revolution might be necessary for change. In the 1960s the Panthers called for a neighborhood control of education and the police. The Panthers wanted the children to know about the true history of the Black people. Some of these ideas inspired students in Merrit College, in Oakland, to demand that Black history be taught in the regular school curriculum. The charitable acts by the Panthers were not focused on, but the violence between the police and the Panthers was. The Panthers believed that it was okay to carry firearms as protection. The police attacked this policy because they saw it as a threat to the American way of life. The tensions between the two eventually led to several shoot-outs.

http://www.gfsnet.org/msweb/sixties/the_black_panthers.htm

[bobbyboucher]

8. The Panthers were started to fight back against oppression,

the KKK was started to oppress.

[DrWeird]

10. Ten-point Party Program.

As drafted by Party founders, Huey P. Newton and Bobby Seale. (bet you won't see this come Black History Month)

1. We want freedom. We want power to determine the destiny of our Black Community.

We believe that black people will not be free until we are able to determine our destiny.


2. We want full employment for our people.

We believe that the federal government is responsible and obligated to give every man employment or a guaranteed income. We believe that if the white American businessmen will not give full employment, then the means of production should be taken from the businessmen and placed in the community so that the people of the community can organize and employ all of its people and give a high standard of living.


3. We want an end to the robbery by the white man of our Black Community.

We believe that this racist government has robbed us and now we are demanding the overdue debt of forty acres and two mules. Forty acres and two mules was promised 100 years ago as restitution for slave labor and mass murder of black people. We will accept the payment as currency which will be distributed to our many communities. The Germans are now aiding the Jews in Israel for the genocide of the Jewish people. The Germans murdered six million Jews. The American racist has taken part in the slaughter of over twenty million black people; therefore, we feel that this is a modest demand that we make.


4. We want decent housing, fit for shelter of human beings.

We believe that if the white landlords will not give decent housing to our black community, then the housing and the land should be made into cooperatives so that our community, with government aid, can build and make decent housing for its people.


5. We want education for our people that exposes the true nature of this decadent American society. We want education that teaches us our true history and our role in the present-day society.

We believe in an educational system that will give to our people a knowledge of self. If a man does not have knowledge of himself and his position in society and the world, then he has little chance to relate to anything else.


6. We want all black men to be exempt from military service.

We believe that Black people should not be forced to fight in the military service to defend a racist government that does not protect us. We will not fight and kill other people of color in the world who, like black people, are being victimized by the white racist government of America. We will protect ourselves from the force and violence of the racist police and the racist military, by whatever means necessary.


7. We want an immediate end to police brutality and murder of black people.

We believe we can end police brutality in our black community by organizing black self-defense groups that are dedicated to defending our black community from racist police oppression and brutality. The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States gives a right to bear arms. We therefore believe that all black people should arm themselves for self defense.


8. We want freedom for all black men held in federal, state, county and city prisons and jails.

We believe that all black people should be released from the many jails and prisons because they have not received a fair and impartial trial.


9. We want all black people when brought to trial to be tried in court by a jury of their peer group or people from their black communities, as defined by the Constitution of the United States.

We believe that the courts should follow the United States Constitution so that black people will receive fair trials. The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution gives a man a right to be tried by his peer group. A peer is a person from a similar economic, social, religious, geographical, environmental, historical and racial background. To do this the court will be forced to select a jury from the black community from which the black defendant came. We have been, and are being tried by all-white juries that have no understanding of the "average reasoning man" of the black community.


10. We want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice and peace. And as our major political objective, a United Nations-supervised plebiscite to be held throughout the black colony in which only black colonial subjects will be allowed to participate for the purpose of determining the will of black people as to their national destiny.

When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly, all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to supper, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariable the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

[Old and In the Way]

11. How many whites did the Black Panthers hang?

The Panthers, while very radically chic in their black berets, could never be compared to the KKK. The Panthers had, what, a few hundred members at their recruiting height? Compare that with the KKK's membership that was broad and deep and lasted for decades.

BTW, the town I live in, in central Maine, had a very substantially KKK following in the 1920s. A Maine Governor, from my town, was a sympathizer. At its height, there were 150,000 members in Maine. Of course, our local version was focused on hating Freanco-Catholics, not blacks.

Sounds to me that your friend is an apologist for the KKK and using straw men to rehabilitate their justifiably wretched place in our history.

[yankeedem]

14. Nothing like MLK day to bring out the racists

Ask this racist to tell you how many people the Black Panthers killed compared to the number that the KKK have killed.

And ask him what exactly the Black Panthers have to do with Martin Luther King.