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The Whiskey Priest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:33 PM
Original message
Once again the America reveals its true character

We are the purveyors of death..

To maintain our honor we let loose the death squads.

Vietnam..El SalvadorGuatemala.Now Iraq

Fathers, brothers, sisters, mothers are slaughtered in dark of night

No trial by jury.

Hooray, hooray

Our bloody hands are working

Let no one deny we are all guilty

Let no one claim they didnt know Auschwitzs purpose.

Wash your hands in the innocents blood

We are destined to stand in historys dock

Pray for our souls

We have lost them
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. I disagree-it's not "America's True Character" but rather the evil band of
brothers that has been in our governement going back to the 60's whose motives and methods are sadistic, cruel and evil. Unfortunately, these people (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush Sr., now Jr. etc.) have been able to snooker the American public and get themselves in positions of power that have allowed them to have "ultimate power" and abuse that power.

Sadly, they are doing the same thing that they have done before...and it taint's our country's good name with the blood and suffering of its victims....

I pray for Americans to wake up and see what is happening before its too late....the people in this Administration are destroying our nation....

:cry:
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poe Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. our countries good name? sadistic,cruel and evil as tradition
it is mind boggling to watch folk take such a short and distorted view of this beast called america. just google "american interventions since 1900" or read william blum's "killing hope" or research the sand creek massacre or read pulitzer prize winning journalist eileen wilsome's "the plutonium files" or just take a cursory glance at the on the ground conditions in this country on any date post 1500. read de la casas' diaries, look at east st. louis, watts, bridgeport, etc. 5 nuclear wars all by america. the entire european tradition is violence as the norm. conquering people,slaughtering non-humans and anything considered non-human.
it is not just these people though they are particularly rapacious, it is a rather natural flow of events that brings us of A to massacre over 2 million vietnamese, over 2 million iraqis. look at the spanish-american war. wow.
release yourself from any allegiance to the land of the fee and home of wage slavery.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
24. I'm speaking of the character of a nation based on its people-I believe
the "American True character" and of its citizens is that it is good. Travel abroad....the majority of people when speaking of the United States in a negative way do not speak of its people negatively, they speak of its government.

There are many actions by our US government that go back to the early days of our founding that are shameful and they continue. But I will not judge all its citizens of being of bad character based on the actions of a government, in particular one they did not vote for. I do however hold responsible to a degree the citizens in this country who do not vote by choice or the ones who did who are blindly without information and education making their decisions out of either "loyalty" to the GOP party without looking at its history and its current actions.

Sorry, I don't believe Americans are "sadistic, cruel and evil as tradition"....sadly though, some of its leaders and the people in power and money have been though...
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poe Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. america-forget the idea
the "american true character" is a mix of things. "good" is the exception and more to the point an oversimplification. suv's are the biggest selling auto that is not "good" that is greed. have you ever lived in the south. it is nascar and wal-mart and there is more viciousness than you may care to admit. "if you think these guys are mean wait til you meet their constituents", is a refrain in texas political circles. it's true. check out the millions of religious fanatics. they seem so milky and nice. wrong. these people are intolerant and myopic. check out many of the liberals who talk about civil rights etc. but won't cut back on their lifestyles. selfishness is closer to the defining character of the american.
having hitched around in numerous countries there is only one where getting a ride is difficult-america. in most other places you'll get lodging, food and a rowdy good time. here it is glares and possibly arrest. and i assure you most folk in other nations think american PEOPLE are dangerous, loud, imperious and uninteresting. they are right.
forget this america rah-rah nonsense. it is just an illusion of artificial demarcations and made in bangladesh flags. the american character can not be seperated from the form and function of it's government though i wouldn't necessarily hold every one responsible for dick cheney's actions. but many want to kick arab ass and even more simply don't care.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #24
38. George Walker Bush*
IS the face of America. The sooner y'all GROK THAT the better.
The "free pass" given by the ROTW due to our "grand experiment" EXPIRED on 06/01/05.

Your MIC is committing GENOCIDE in Iraq and the "hot story" of the day is some jock's idiotic mimic. :eyes:

Meine ficken Fresse...
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
35. If so, we the people, the media, the Congress, the Supreme Court have been
enablers for each had sufficient knowledge about the ideology, agenda, policies, and actions to have call the hand, to have stopped all this in its tracks.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Even among people who voted for Bush, I think that few of them
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 11:43 PM by Eric J in MN
were thinking, "I'm for Bush because he's going to bring death squads to Iraq."
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Indeed...
Implied Silence is taken as Implied Consent....

The same tag that was hung on the German people after WW II....
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. What a load of grade A horse shit n/t
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The Whiskey Priest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Were is the argument faulty?
What fact is wrong?

What premise is irrational?

That we support, even passively, is ours, is it not?
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. Agreed 100%
To state that every action taken to stop these madmen means nothing, and that we are guilty of *'s crimes is quite simply absurd.

By that thinking I guess I should not have spent election day driving progressive voters to the polls eh? Why bother? I am a filthy mass murderer.

Utter nonsense.
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The Whiskey Priest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. I voted......I lost....Im okay....thats just the way the system works...
tough luck to those who are on the short end of the stick...hope we win the next time....it was a heck of game.
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poe Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. mass delusion
all ye say is true laddie. seems the attention span challenged liberal has a cell phone call to answer and can't be bothered by the slaughter in the congo. seems the indifferent americanus unawarus has a mall walk appointment with the rest of the book club and can't hear the screams.
if you aren't protesting this madness every day then you are to some degree collaborating. casting ballots ain't enough. not even close.
america thy name for the land is violence
america a fundamentally sick society
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. Americanus Unawarus....hee hee...
Havent' heard that one, but know lots of them...

Yes, your right...those that aren't protesting this madness are to some degree collaborating....

Just like the German citizens who claimed at the end of WWII that they had no idea or the ones that said they had no option...they were also collaborators in the final solution....

What will the Americanus Unawarus's be saying when its too late? :eyes:
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ozarklib Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. I deny that we are all guilty.
I do not believe in collective guilt. Only those with blood on their hands are responsible. Not all of us.

The idea of collective guilt makes me think of the lynching of any black man because some good ol' white boys thought a black man did something. Collective national guilt is no better than collective racial guilt. The same flawed idea.

And it can be used by some to rationalize war and destruction. If everyone in a country can be responsible for the wrongs of the leaders, then why not kill civilians?
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The Whiskey Priest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. How have you resisted the governments actions.....
Do we not continue to pay our taxes?

Do we not stand silent as the government carries out its purpose?

Does not our silence condemn us?
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ozarklib Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Silent?
I pay my taxes (like I have any choice?) But of course I don't remain silent. There have been many voices raised, letters of protest, demonstrations. Just because we have not succeeded in changing the government, does not mean that everyone has remained silent.
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The Whiskey Priest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. If you witnessed you neighbors dragged from their home
made to kneel in their front yard so armed men could proceed to blow their brains out....would letters of protest, demonstrations be enough?

Do we not sanction the government by our acquiescing to its authority?
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DerekG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
29. Actually, our society *was* guilty in regards to racism
Our predecessors were all cognizant of slavery, even if many were ignorant of its full horrors. And precious few of them did anything about it until it was too late. Garrison articulated this notion of collective guilt, as did John Brown and Lincoln in his Second Inaugural Address (the most radical speech ever delivered by a president).






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poe Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
31. theft requires war-the american way
what's my damage? ask yourself that question every day. where did those bananas come from? how about that coffee? how about the coltan in the cell phones which comes from the congo? this isn't a matter of political abstractions it is built into the "american way of life". how much of the world did you colonize with your daily habits?
buy local when possible. buy nothing even better.
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Lost Dutchman Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
10. So what about the Tsunami aid?
Do only bad actions show America's true character?

If you want to hate yourself, fine. But you don't need to include the rest of us.
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The Whiskey Priest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Talk is cheap...as are the promises of aid
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 12:12 AM by The Whiskey Priest
America has pledged much....and reigned on all...
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Lost Dutchman Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Your last statement has NO basis in fact.
n/t
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The Whiskey Priest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. $5 billion to Africa for humanitarian assistance
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 12:17 AM by The Whiskey Priest
None delivered

Aid to Iran for the earthquake...none delivered.

and so on and so on.....

Iraq....?
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Lost Dutchman Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Here is just after about 10 seconds of research...
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

As much as we could? Hell no, but don't sit there and say the US does nothing.

Not to mention the food donations, private donations, and military aid. I suppose the USS Abraham Lincoln battle group helping in the tsunami aid is an elaborate hoax?

One US citizen Michael Schumacher has donated $10 million. That is as much or more then entire countries.
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The Whiskey Priest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. The EU has pledged aid worth $2 billion
and the EU usually does what it says it will do....
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Lost Dutchman Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. And the above argument...
Applies exactly how to your original premise that the US does nothing but rape, kill and plunder?
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The Whiskey Priest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. How does promising aid offset rape, pillage and murder?
I suppose that should have been the first question.
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Lost Dutchman Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. It doesn't. However...
First you need to prove the US is committing the above crimes. Then I am willing to argue that point.

Second, saying that the US is doing nothing but evil in the world is simply flat out wrong.

Third, the US is delivering aid. It has promised more then it has delivered so far, but it has delivered.
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poe Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. american aid-watch out
american aid is not stingy it is strategic. it always has strings attached or worse-bombs enclosed. as a percent of gdp u.s. aid is at .13% (note the position of the decimal), dead last among donor nations. read "killing hope" by william blum, america has been raping, pillaging etc. non-stop for five hundred years. cite one example where u.s. has given aid unconditionally. u.s. military "aid" is to fatten up the coffers of lockheed-martin and protect the corporate interests of u.s. chamber of commerce using proxy forces where direct intervention is politically impossible. america is the problem child in the global village. lord of the flies at hyper speed.
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The Whiskey Priest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. One small point.....
any aid we pledge must be borrowed from China or Japan....we are broke.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
30. Your IGNORANCE is showing...
"One US citizen Michael Schumacher has donated $10 million." :eyes:
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
36. Hi Lost Dutchman!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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RafterMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
19. Once again
a tedious jeremiad and the accusatory "we" find a home on DU.

Drink up, whiskey priest, drink up.
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The Whiskey Priest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. "we" is appropriate, since it is our government....
unless we have received absolution giving power to those who wield it in our name.
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WillowTree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
28. And some people wonder...
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 01:51 AM by WillowTree
....why the Left gets labeled as the "Blame America First" crowd. Sheesh!

Sorry, but sentiments such as these are part of what turns people off to Liberalism these days. Next time you find yourself wondering why so many people are attracted to Conservatism, ask yourself when the last time was that you heard a Conservative tell Americans that their Country represents the dregs of the universe. There will be your answer. They like to talk about what they think is good about America and how we can be even better. Liberals have fallen into an unfortunate pattern of talking about what's wrong and that we need to be fixed. Whatever their real goals and motives are, they believe that America is great and they say so, loud and long (heavy on the "loud" part - LOL!!). That, to no small degree, is how they win hearts and minds. Who wants to listen to doom and gloom and negativism all the time, particularly when it's directed at them and the Country that they hold dear?

If the Left wants to have the message heard, we're going to have to start framing it in a way that makes people want to listen to what we have to say. This, Whiskey Priest, ain't it.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
33. i think it is time we step away from americas character
this is the character of those in power. not my character nor yours.

thank you for this perspective. character of country very valid, very relevent. words are important too.
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Grooner Five Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
37. Wonderful
Now this is the way to get votes and make a difference. The American electorate will flock to this sort of platform like moths to a flame.

America sucks! The country is evil! We're ruining the world!
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