Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The draft: What would you do?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:00 PM
Original message
Poll question: The draft: What would you do?
Imagine you were of prime draft age when this Administration brought back the draft (which I'm sure they will call "national service" or some nonsense like that). What would you do?

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Other: pray for the poor young people who are forced to war
and rub it into any Bush voter/parent who dares to complain
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Guns Aximbo Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. I'm too friggin old
You all might hate me... But, I tried to enlist after 911. I was 39 and they wouldn't take me. (THANK YOU)!

I have a passle of kids and wanted to go and get the war over with so they wouldn't have to go but the recruiter said I was too old.

I'll do anything to keep my sons from going though.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buck_Fush Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. You're not too old, they have sent some 70 year olds
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 05:20 AM by Buck_Fush
on feb 11, 2003 a draft plan was submitted to the pentagon calling for the draft of EVERYONE, both men and women to and including the age of 35. They will quickly adjust their criteria upward in age as soon as so many of our young are dead they no longer have enough draft victims. I personally know of a gentleman who did his duty when he was young, is now in his 60's, and the army tried to reactivate him. I am a 52 year old woman. I wouldn't care if I were 20 or 70, I would still not go kill innocents to make Halliburton a buck, and there is nothing they could do to me to change my mind. Military recruiters have called my house nearly every day for the last year trying to sucker my teenage children. I do not allow them to speak to my children, and tell them instead not to call back until the Drunken Shrub Twins are in Iraq. When the Twin Drunks are there, I might begin to take this war seriously. I tell the recuiters not to call back, but they do, and furthermore they call my neighbors to tell them what I said and badmouth me for it. Insidious bastards. I have told these recruiting agents that their jobs are immoral and if they have a shred of decency they will quit today. They do not seem to appreciate that advice, which proves what morally defunct assholes they are. Right now in our county there are already some young persons in jail because their consiencious objector status was denied and they still refused to go. These young people who "just say no" are our real American heros.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
62. I don't hate you -- thought of doing the same
But I was over 40 plus my various social and physical deficits. It wasn't going to happen. I knew I would just be wasting everyone's time so I didn't actually try to enlist. The son of one of my good friends did try to enlist, and they said he was too young, not yet out of high school.

The Iraq nonsense convinced him he would be wasted if he made another attempt to sign up. So they lost that one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
70. That was the desired effect of 9-11
To get America pumped up to enlist and kick some Arab ass. I am glad you were not taken and I hope you see the lie now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'll get out my papers and smile at the sky
I already served, don't plan on doing it again, and they can't make me. I did my time, got out almost 10 years ago, and had served my entire 8 year obligation at that point. I have no worries.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
30. Do you know they're recalling former soldiers?
Soldiers who did their 8 years and have been out of the service for over a decade?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. No, they're calling certain specialties, not just "soldiers"
And, contrary to popular belief, the majority of those people have various issues which would allow for it (i.e., having drawn retirement pay without having served all time required for retirement, etc.). I've checked into it, I'm not worried in the least.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm 46, so I'm too old, even for a nurse, but I'd consider
hiding an objector to protect him/her from the Bush war criminals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Goldeneye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'd call my repub. family members
and thank them for voting for Bush, and then I'd try for a con. objection....that failing, I would go and serve like everyone else...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlbizuX Donating Member (322 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
37. i really like this idea...
call your Bush supporting relatives...let em know that because of them, I now have to find ways to avoid going to war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mother earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. I really think the Draft is when people will be taking to the streets.
I really think that's when all hell will break loose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
71. You are right young fat Americans will not leave their play stations
To go to Iraq. When they start the draft most kids will freak out, some will use their Grand Theft Auto skills to mess shit up like they did in LA in the early 90's.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
81. I really, really hope so.
I think those who have been against Bush's policies, and those who have any doubts, will be out there protesting, but the others -- the sheeple-- will go along with it. They'll continue to rationalize that the US is killing in the name of peace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
InvisibleBallots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. you left out a number of options
probably a wise decision.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. document your CO status NOW
I'd say take part in a lot of antiwar activities and register as a CO now. I would take part in antiwar rallies (women in black do them regularly) and get photos of yourself there, join peace movements, write antiwar LTEs, join amnesty international, stuff like that.

If I were on a draft board, I would definitely be more likely to grant CO status to those that didn't suddenly become a peacenik the week after a draft was announced.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PowerToThePeople Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
49. "document your CO status NOW"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. What would this be under?
Acute Anxiety Disorder
Tendonitis in both knees
Intestional twisting

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Daughters
Well, my gay daughter said she would SCREAM she was GAY from the highest rooftop. My younger daughter, who is in college, said she would leave the country - not Canada, but Europe. Yes, BOTH of them think there will be a draft and that women will be drafted too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sympleesmshn Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. I am 17 and I see 3 options for me...
1)ROTC- have the government send me to college and then serve for a few years and then I am out.
2)Denounce my US citizenship...I have dual citizenship from my father.
3)Nothing...I have had a major operation on my knee, so I do not have to go unless I want to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
31. College is no longer a deferrment.
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 05:43 AM by LynnTheDem
You can finish the semester if you're a senior; otherwise you can finish the TERM.

That's it.

There's a soldier who had back surgery, another had a hip replacement; both were sent to Iraq.

Dual citizenship doesn't work, either. I too have dual. If you EVER had US citizenship and are in the USA when a draft is called, then you can be drafted becuase you HAD US citizenship, even if you've since renounced it.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sympleesmshn Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
59. Yeah but did those two want to go?
The army wont take me because of my knee. My Doctor who is navy told me the only way I could get into the Navy was to say I had no knee pain.

Unless I have mis-read the draft bills, ROTC will be a deferment. And I could always go to the USCGA.

And I have citizenship in Bermuda and UK so if renounced my citizenship I would not stick around.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sympleesmshn Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
60. repeat of above
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 07:04 PM by Sympleesmshn
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreyRoofoo Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
48. Don't expect to serves "just a couple years"......
going into ROTC

the military reserves the right to call officers back into service at any time

with enlisted its only 4 years or so under "normal" circumstances
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sympleesmshn Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #48
58. Yeah but my major will take me off the line
I want to study International Relations which means after my first two tours I can have desk job tours. I just have to sit back and pray.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buck_Fush Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #10
85. ROTC means you go, and they don't mean "a few years" its the back
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 06:25 AM by Buck_Fush
door draft, already open, if you can't get through college without ROTC, you will end up spending a lot more years in battle than in class. Do anything, even live with your parents or go to college later, rather than join ROTC, they are only trying to sucker you into the military. In the end you will be at war as many as 8 years before you get your degree, and with your degree you will still find there are only McJobs to be had in America these days, degree and all, so, if that's the only way you can go to college, I think you should skip it for now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stepup2 Donating Member (396 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. I got a call from a recruiter Thursday
He said he was calling college students in the area looking for people who might be interested in joining up.

He did not ask and I did not tell, but he clued in to the fact that I am a non-traditional student. He asked me to refer anyone who I thought might be interested... I told him then I'd be happy to, however all my friends are gay or lesbian.

He went silent. I told him many of them would be happy to serve as long as it was a war of REAL unavoidable necessity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kiraboo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. I've got two kids coming upon their teenage years
and my husband and I both have Canadian citizenship. We'd be out of here in a week. Right now we are actively searching for employment in Canada. Anybody up there need a physics prof?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Comicstripper Donating Member (876 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'd pull a Kerry
I'd go, and if I made it back, Bush would have Hell to pay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Huh? Which Kerry are we talking about?
I recall a Kerry trying to get everybody to fight on and never surrender and all that... until Kerry did just that the day after the election.

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Comicstripper Donating Member (876 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
40. Yes, that's clearly what I was referring to
OK, we know what you think. Now please, stop whining unless you have something constructive to say.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
islander Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
15. I'm probably 4-F, anyway.
(I have a bad back. A very bad back. One that makes doctors's eyes bulge out when they see the X-ray. I sincerely doubt I could carry one of those giant military-style backpacks.)

Either way, I'd probably jump around a lot saying "I told you so, I told you so!" until somebody felt compelled to kick my ass. I'm insensitive like that. Hell, if I was drafted, I'd probably get it tatooed somewhere on me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
16. I would stop just observing the situation in the US and do something.
Probably raise awareness over here; boycott key corporations. Offer my home to defectors.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I would only help a draft resister who voted for Kerry
I don't have time to help some dumb kid who voted for Bush and now regrets it. He should suffer the consequences, as should anyone who was too lazy to vote or voted for some crank third party candidate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. No, I'd help them too. I'd harbour them.
(NB I live in the UK.)

Helping them would give me endless lecture opportunities about exactly how they were wrong. And you know what? Those are the stories they'd tell their kids. Yeah, I'd help them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
American Tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
87. Would you help me, Taxloss?
I'm serious. If there were a draft, I would flee the country and likely go to either the UK or Germany. I know the respective languages of those countries, but very few people there. I have enough money that I wouldn't have to burden anybody for too long, unless the dollar just collapses. Just harbor my Yankee ass for a few days, and you're welcome to talk my ear off. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
17. here's a link to all the military papers for Consciencious Objector
I know NOTHING about this church...but the pdf files to all the required military paperwork are very helpful...this also contains valuable ideas about how to document your Consciencious Objector status.....

as others here have noted...if you choose the CO route...GET BUSY RIGHT NOW....get all your forms filled out to beat the rush....having lived through Vietnam, I guarantee, the Draft Boards will deny more and more CO applications as the whole idea catches on...best to be at the FRONT OF THE LINE, while the Draft Board people are still untarnished and relatively new on the job (when rumsfeld re-opened draft boards last year, it was the FIRST time since Vietnam that the boards were staffed).....

http://www.peacehost.net/christianCO/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
19. So I'm imagining I'm about 21 and male, right?
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 12:21 AM by Bouncy Ball
I would be building up my CO file now.

And seeing as beliefnet ALWAYS brings up Liberal Quakers as my #1 religion match when I take that long quiz, I'd find a local group of Quakers and join them immediately.

If nothing worked, yes I guess I'd go to Canada because THIS war is immoral. If we were talking about a war of defense for the US, then that would be a different story.

But I'll be damned if I'm going to die for Halliburton.

Oh and on edit, I'm actually a 34 year old woman and I would gladly offer up our spare bedroom for a young person who voted for Kerry who is avoiding the draft. Gladly and proudly.

Am married to a man who served 11 years active duty. They can't have him.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FM Arouet666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
22. Cannot report. PERIOD.
I am probably next, the medical draft will likely be first. I will simply not report and ignore all inquires to do so. If they get hostile, I will leave the country. This war is wrong, I am not willing to participate in the death of others for the sake of oil and a U.S. presence in the middle east. This administration has engaged in a Machiavellian foreign policy where the individual means nothing. I am sorry Mr president, I count. I will not be killed, nor will I kill, for you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
23. Tell them I'm gay.
Problem solved. Some straight boy will just have to take my place.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. Won't work.
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 05:47 AM by LynnTheDem
My soldier hubby had 2 of his own troops try that. Told the CO they were gay & felt too guilty hiding the fact any more. Hoped they'd get the boot.

They were sent to Iraq.

Maybe if you offered to prove it...lol!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
24. I was drafted during Vietnam
and served two years in the Army. Knowing what I know now, I would move to Victoria, British Columbia if put in the same situation as a young man with his life in front of him. It ain't worth getting killed so the Bush Crime Family can make a few extra billion.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
25. To be quite honest....
when it looked like I might be cannon fodder for Nam, I said I would be Canadian.

But that year they started the lottery, and I came up 341. Women and children would go before I would.

I had friends in the low digits, like 6 and 3. The went to war.

I would be a Canadian today if that had been me.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dethl Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
26. Other...no need for me to dodge draft...physical disability
All the military has to do is check my hearing and I'm totally unfit for service.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dethl Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Where in my post was I being rude to poor kids?
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 05:34 AM by dethl
I simply stated I have a physical disability, one which could endanger me and those around me if I happened to be on a battlefield. Even a small amount of background noise can really screw with my hearing. EDIT: Imagine what constant gunfire noise would do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buck_Fush Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. where did I say you were "rude to poor kids"?
My point, my friend, is that just because you are not physically fit for war does not mean the draft is not a problem. I never said you were rude to anyone, only noting that the issue is a lot bigger than your personal hearing problem. They won't be drafting me either, because I am a 52 year old woman, but, it's still a problem for me, because, I don't want to see the young and able bodied sacrificed for Halliburton war profits.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buck_Fush Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. btw, I think "contant gunfire" is pretty much a problem for everyone n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
35. Step 1, B. Step 2, if necessary, A. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SmartBomb Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
38. I'd 'Just say no' then I'd get high n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
39. Do mental illness and physical ailments exclude one from the draft?
I signed A CO pledge thing last year at a peace college, through Veterans For Peace...

But as far as a family member and my boyfriend - he's got metal screws in his back from when the local hospital accidentally shattered two vertebrae doing a spinal tap - would that disqualify him?

My sister is bipolar, and it's documented. Were these disqualifiers in the Viet Nam era?

I will not go serve. I refuse to. It IS against everything I believe in. If there were a war that was justifiable, I think I might go to help with humanitarian effort, but never to fight. (but that's beside the point these days).

Does anyone know? I'm a 26 yr old female and very :scared:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. NO !....for Vietnam 1966, McNamara drafted his 'Moron Corps' (link)
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 04:34 PM by diamond14

moderators: the term 'Moron Corps' is very offensive to me and others, but sadly, that is what these people were called and it is history...most ended up on the Vietnam Wall...and many articles have been written about McNamara's "Moron Corps", including the one below by Salon...perhaps these revelations will save lives today, in the Iraqmire....we should TELL THE TRUTH about the Vietnam draft, in order to STOP the Iraqmire Draft.....rumsfeld himself described the draft as being 'sucked into the intake'...

http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2002/05/29/mcnama...

McNamara's "Moron Corps"
HBO's "Path to War" leaves out some of the most shameful brainstorms of the Vietnam War's masterminds -- including a little-known recruitment program that turned the mentally and physically deficient into cannon fodder.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Myra MacPherson


Secretary of Defense robert mcNamara (Vietnam Quagmire)
now replaced by Secretary of Defense donald rumsfeld (Iraqmire)



May 29, 2002 | The highly acclaimed HBO movie, "Path to War", powerfully details President Lyndon Johnson's descent into the disastrous quagmire of Vietnam. LBJ is depicted, in part, as a victim of his defense secretary, Robert McNamara's, intellectual duplicity. But the film spares McNamara from the deeper moral condemnation he deserves, entirely overlooking, for instance, one of his most heinous acts as the chief architect of the war -- a cynical recruitment gambit aimed at the underclass known as "Project 100,000."

By 1966, President Johnson was fearful that calling up the reserves or abolishing student deferments would further inflame war protesters and signal all-out war. And so, even after McNamara began privately declaring the war was unwinnable, the defense secretary devised Project 100,000.

Under his direction, an alternative army was systematically recruited from the ranks of those who had previously been rejected for failing to meet the armed services' physical and mental requirements. Recruiters swept through urban ghettos and Southern rural back roads, even taking at least one youth with an IQ of 62. In all, 354,000 men were rolled up by Project 100,000. Touted as a Great Society program that would provide remedial education and an escape from poverty, the recruitment program offered a one-way ticket to Vietnam, where "the Moron Corps," as they were pathetically nicknamed by other soldiers, entered combat in disproportionate numbers. Although Johnson was a vociferous civil rights advocate, the program took a heavy toll on young blacks. A 1970 Defense Department study disclosed that 41 percent of Project 100,000 recruits were black, compared with 12 percent in the armed forces as a whole. What is more, 40 percent of Project 100,000 recruits were trained for combat, compared with 25 percent for the services generally.

---------------------------------------

SPECIAL dog tags were issued to 'McNamara's Morons', so they could be clearly identified....most ended up on the Vietnam Wall, or ran away if they could...the regular troops did not want to be with them, feeling they jeopardized others' lives, during battlefield decisions...often those tagged "US67" were just sent to their deaths....


http://www.mooremilitaria.com/dog_tags.htm

Vietnam-Era US Army Dog Tags, the Army Service Number was 8 digits and had one of the following prefixes: RA (Regular Army, volunteer enlisted), US (an enlisted draftee), NG (National Guard), ER (Enlisted Reserve), O (Officer). When using draftee designation "US", the first number is either a 5 or a 6. 6 was considered a bad number as it was reserved for the "Project 100,000". The second number is the "Army Area" the draftee was from. 1 or 2 indicated Northeast (after the 2nd Army was absorbed by the 1st Army in the 50's), 3 South, 4 Southwest, 5 Mid-West, 6 California, Pacific Coast, Hawaii, Alaska. 0 indicated outside the US such as Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, or America Samoa. Of interest, is that US67 numbers indicated one of McNamara's Project 100,000 draftees who had failed the Armed Forces minimal IQ test, but were drafted anyway to meet the manpower needs.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Thank you diamond14 for the answer
Now I just have to find other ways for them (and myself) to avoid it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. that is a very selfish view....the REALITY is that the DRAFT affects


our whole society...and it would be MUCH MUCH more productive to spend your time fighting against bush* wars....

For Vietnam, people like you, looking out ONLY for their own interests, were hunted down and dragged over to their local military training base....others, who cared about OUR WHOLE SOCIETY, did much better....

if you work HARD, right now, to STOP BUSH* Wars....you might accomplish a greater good...if you continue, as many others are, to view it like a 'I'll get out of it, so what do I care'....you will be DOOMED....

today, is very much different than Vietnam, in terms of tracking potential draftees...when I was young during Vietnam, there wasn't any computers, or cell phones, or even faxes, or push-button phones (roto-dial was all we had)...so burning down the draft board (full of the paper records) was a simple solution to the TRACKING of draftees....for your group....none of you has even TRIED to come with a way to stop the TRACKING of DRAFTEES, and disrupt the process, despite all your high tech training...you all have politely registered for the draft, you have allowed bush* to order your high schools and colleges to submit ALL records on students.... you all have Social Security numbers issued at birth (which wasn't the case for Vietnam, I got my Social Security number when I was 16 years old and went to work in something besides babysitting and delivering papers and shoveliing snow and cutting lawns)....and charge cards...and everything and everyplace is KNOWN about YOU....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #56
63. Um I have been fighting against *'s illegal wars, in many ways,
and I don't really appreciate you calling me selfish, seeing as you don't know a THING about me. I have been fighting against these damn wars since day 1! I have tried my hardest at my school to awaken in people what's going on. I have protested, passed out pamphlets, been active with Veteran's for Peace, held conferences at school where we showed Uncovered, spoke at those events, participated in the "First In the Nation Peace College" last year, etc.

I am young, I didn't live through Viet Nam, but that doesn't mean that I am not a fighter. I see what's going on...

All I was asking about was if my sister and boyfriend would be safe - excuse me for caring about my loved ones.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
American Renaissance Donating Member (330 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
41. limited options,
I came of age living outside the US and didn't know Selective Service still existed!

So I never registered, and now I am much too old.

The first I heard of it was when the draft debate started up a few years ago.

However, I already have Canadian permanent residency and spend alot of time on both sides of the 49th.

But if they kicked the draft back into gear I don't really know what I could do, since they would probably be checking people leaving and entering the US at the airport and I would probably be arrested on the spot for non-compliance.

But it would be akward career wise since I travel back and forth constantly, I guess I would have to take Canadian citizenship.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
42. Suddenly declare that you are gay
Unless the GOP stoops to the level of outright hypocriscy. OH WAIT, they do that on a daily basis.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nickshepDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
43. If the DRAFT started I would just volunteer... Probably USN or USAF
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. won't save you...my cousin, USN HM3 was KILLED in Vietnam....


Silver Star, Purple Heart, 19 years old....don't ever be fooled that YOU won't be KILLED or MAIMED in bush* Iraqmire by VOLUNTEERING for the USN or USAF...that's exactly what fooled my cousin...go visit him, Vietnam Wall Panel 19E.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #52
64. HM means he was a Corpsman, I would guess attached to ...
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 07:25 PM by Pepperbelly
either the Marines or Swift Boats.

Stay with the seagoing rates ... OS or ST.

Also, very sorry to hear of the death. That was a dangblasted man eating fucking war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #64
75. my cousin was young and brave...saved two marines' lives
(and I never knew who they were)...when he rushed out on the same battlefield to get a third, he was KILLED (shot in the BACK while bandaging up a wounded Marine)....thus, the Silver Star for gallantry on the battlefield at the age of 19....he was an HM3 Navy Medic, but not for long....too young and too naive, I guess...


his father died from grief shortly thereafter....his mother has NEVER visited the Vietnam Wall or gone to Arlington at all, since his burial there....and she'd tell you anytime that Vietnam was rotten, corrupt, immoral, un-American and more....

we played together as children, grew up together, laughed and sang together...I still miss him....since I live inside the Beltway, once in a while but not very often, I go down to the Vietnam Wall, to Panel 19E, and just sit there and cry....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #75
86. shoot ...
the story of your cuz is heartbreaking. Sounds like he was one of the good guys and brave to boot. Dying while trying to save others. I guess, since we all have to go, that would be a better way than many but damn, it breaks my heart.

Best to you and your family.

Peace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
American Tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #75
89. Man... it hurts just to read that
I'm not gushy or sentimental by any means, but that story makes my eyes wet.

Not to be insensitive, but sometimes there really are worse things than dying. My dad's friend in high school was a vibrant young man, a notorious party animal, extremely popular and fun to be around.

When he returned from Vietnam, he was sullen and bitter, and suffered from horrific paranoid delusions - he heard the Devil talk to him whenever the television was turned on. He was our next-door neighbor when I was growing up, and I remember that he had shotguns and dead rattlesnakes pinned menacingly on the facade of his house. To this day he is a hermit, almost never going outside except to violent threaten anybody who steps on his yard. He has surveillance and security systems installed around his property to rival a military compound.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
44. Other: Coup d'etat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nile Donating Member (354 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
45. I would do the same frigging thing that I did 36 years ago.
1. I got my draft notice.
2. I went to Canada with my girl friend. I loved her even though I knew that she wanted to rejoin her other draft dodging boyfriend but I drove her there anyway.
3. My father and uncle tracked me down and and talked me into coming back.
4. I did basic at Fort Dix and AIT at Fort Sill.
5. I spent the entire next year in Vietnam.
6. I made it home alright.
7. I worked for a while then decided to let the army pay for my electronics education.
8. I excelled at electronics.
9. I married the girl that I took to Nova Scotia to see her boy friend.
10. I am still married to the same girl after somewhere around 35 years and still love her intensely. I mean I really do love her. Would not want to be with anyone else.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
46. I'm gay. Not allowed to serve my country.
Sometimes discrimination has a silver lining...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
47. Crossed between splitting and going to jail.
But something tells me if I was 19 years old, those "Father Rapers" in prison wouldn't give a rat's ass for my "Civil Disobedience" while they were bending me over the laundry table...

Most likely I'd be out of here. I'd encourage other young dudes to leave, too. Let the children of The Rich fight the Rich's war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DerekG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. I am TERRIFIED of prison
Yes, I've devoured Thoreau, King and the brothers Berrigan, but even my religiosity is not enough to dispel my fear of being brutalized and sodomized in prison. I'm a pacifist and a virgin--I wouldn't last long in prison.

God I don't want to be sodomized.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Well I've been sodomised, and I didn't mind it a bit!
:)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DerekG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #57
66. No offense, but I don't find your comment amusing
Because I am a Christian pacifist, there is a real possibility I could be in prison by this time next year.

I realize your aim was to induce a guffaw, but rape is a deadly serious business...just count me among the 6 billion who don't wish to be defiled.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #66
83. Well, okay, and I'm sorry

I'm just never sure how to react to it, being one who "bats for the other side". Sometimes I think there ought to be some sort of counter-weight to all the jokes about people getting raped in prison, and I'm sure you'll agree with me that there is a definite tendency to snigger at it. Pardon a clumsy Limey.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freebird12004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
50. still a CO after all these years
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
53. I'm turning 18 in less than a month, and
my parents have already promised me a plane ticket out of the country should it come to that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
61. no one is going to draft me
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 07:10 PM by amazona
Too old, too useless! But yeah if someone was going to give me a job and force me to triple my current annual income in the high four figures, sure, I would give it a try. Doubt I would make it through boot camp though! One of my friends was tossed out after 5 weeks, another lasted only 3 days. I'd be somewhere in that range. As a high functioning autistic, I'm quite useless. I couldn't even dish up cafeteria food. I jump and run at every loud noise, I would be a hazard to everyone around me.

On Edit -- Maybe I should make it clear that I fully support the right of anyone to evade an illegal war of invasion. If a draft comes, I will look for a way to help others be free.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
65. CO, jail or leave the country.
I will not kill except in self defense. I won't take a desk job and help the war machine in some other way. I just can not do it.

For that matter, I am entirely unwilling to leave my child for months or years. He's too young to understand. Besides, what if something happened to me? I was raised by a single parent and I'm entirely unwilling to put LK and LD through that without a damned good reason.

I'd go to jail before I'd go to war. That's easier to say as a woman, since women's prisons tend to be better than those for men, but I would. At least then my chances of going home to my son would be good and in the meantime maybe I could help out in the library or the education program and counteract some of the bad in the world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. women's prisons are worse than those for men
Women are not even getting basic medical care. I have heard of women going untreated for breast cancer.

Compare that to a prison like Angola (Louisiana) where the men have a newspaper, all kinds of Twelve Step Groups, even a rodeo, and an experimental farm. Women's prisons have nothing like this. A friend of mine who was in Angola said it was better than life outside for him and helped him find his sobriety. I never heard a woman say that.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goddess40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. depends on where in the country you go
Wisconsin has great medical care for all their inmates, especially women. (I didn't do time, I worked there)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
imagine1989 Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
68. Get this...
I am in high school and I am a member of the speech and debate team. I do student congress, and one of the kids from a different school wrote a bill requiring everyone to serve one year in the military when they turn 18.

How idiotic is that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buck_Fush Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #68
84. he sure is a sucker for the propaganda isn't he? They want a whole lot
more than one year. I will encourage my kids to run off to the illegal perma wars for profit just as soon as The Drunken Shrub Twins get drafted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr. Blonde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
69. Start singing Alice's Restaurant?
Arlo swears it will work, and I will take him at his word.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goddess40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
73. For those that would go, Why?
I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would go willingly to fight in an immoral, illegal war.

My son's won't be going, they have a neurological problem, but if they tried to draft them any way I'd get them out of this country. No trumped up war is worth their lives nor is murdering innocent people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
74. China will be the world police sooner or later
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ragin_acadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
76. oh, come now, fellow democrats
we should be coming together as a nation, you know, reaching across the aisle. And as such, i propose the following motions, suggested by our glorious leaders that do so well to protect us from terrorism.

1. grow a pilonaidal cyst like Rush Limbaugh. a true patriot has a pimple on his ass that prevents him from service. "i would go, but it hurts to sit down"

2. Stay in the ROTC until the war is actually over. Call Rumsfeld, and let him know that you are a patriot that intends to serve in the ROTC until you require Grecian Formula OR the war ends. Either/Or. He will understand the fervent need to serve your country in that manner. Oh yes he will.

3. You have more pressing matters. Find the latest exemption clause, take advantage of it. Find another one when the last one ran out. Find another exemption clause when the first two are invalidated. Three is company, and the military likes a crowd. Find another exemption clause when the first three no longer apply. After all, who will run Halliburton one day? Who will be vice president? And who will Halliburton run one day? Think about the future, dammit.

4. You have bad knees. Get a 4F classification like Scooter Libby. You would have served, but those knees just pained you so much; you reconcile your inability to be a true patriot by becoming an avid jogger.

5. As an avid segregationist, you realize that when kids go off to war(the white ones), they need heroes, their parents need reassurance (again, the white ones), and the dadburn town needs hope (the white part). That's why you become a bona fide cheerleader like the heroic Trent Lott. Defending Missisipi from the Vietcong with a pom-pom.

6. Aw fuck it. Join the guard. Get coked out of your skull. True patriotism involves beer, whores, and Alabama. So treat yourself to a...uh, treat. When the worm of addiction isn't scurrying in your skull, you can find the time to go AWOL, challenge your father to a fight mano a mano, marry a vacant village idiot that dresses in dollar store drapes, father a pair of vapid, blue blood skanks that take advantage of your office to sex-sandwhich kid rock at your second...sort of..inauguration, and run a few companies into the ground. Serve yourself a few beers, cause you served....sort of.

There it is folks - serving the country Dubya style! I have this stuff on good authority, 'cause hell, they did it, why don't you.

After all, the people that are dumb enough to serve LOSE ELECTIONS!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sleepless In NY Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. Ask Jenna or Barbara to take my place. As if!
I would never fight for bush/cheney, cause lets face it, they neither fought for or protected my country. So I'd just follow their "moral" example and not serve. Probably go to Europe rather than particpate in an illegal war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ragin_acadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #77
90. naw,
i say stay here, and call your local re-instituted selective service board, and sound off about five deferrments, pilonaidal cysts, and getting coked out of your skull before going awol.

try this:

"oh come on, you can't draft me! my new years resolution was to get over the election, and try to be more like george bush (long snort....ssssnnnnnkkkkk) woohoo!, i'd go awol anyway! and as such, now i'm going to go find jesus, declare my intention to run for governor, and kill lots of retards when i win. you can't draft me! why do you hate america? (little table turning there)

or:

"look man, right now i'm in the rotc, i don't see why you have to draft me. rumsfeld was in the rotc, and look at what a great secretary of....whatever...he made! they didn't draft him, he got an officers commission after the war was over. that's what i'm gonna do!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
78. Marry someone of the same sex.
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 07:02 AM by bklyncowgirl
Just imagine the look on the recruiting sergeant's face when you file for family benefits.

You and your partner would be out the door so fast your heads would spin.

You wouldn't actually have to have sex--unless you wanted to. Besides, having people visit to get married for military avoidance purposes would be great for the economy of Massacheusetts.

Great news all around.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberalpress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
79. Not "National Service"...
... Faith-Based Conscription"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
80. All of the above
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
82. get a tattoo above the collar
armed services consider that a big no-no.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
American Tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
88. I'd be out of here
My father drew the number 031 in the 1969 lottery, but escaped the draft via 4-F, something that I doubt I would be able to pull off. He convinced a physician to sign a medical release paper, because he knew that he couldn't bear to kill a bunch of poor Vietnamese people just to sustain the military-industrial complex and cover the moral cowardice of our politicians.

As I've said before, I absolutely don't believe that conscription will be reinstated again in the foreseeable future. The social and political ramifications would be catastrophic, and the administration benefits immensely from being able to cloak the price of war in the volunteer military. Right now, the invasion and occupation of Iraq is still just a television drama. If that were to change, the attitudes of most Americans would completely turn around. They know it, too.

Nevertheless, my parents, old hippies who are still justifiably scarred by their experiences in that era, have prepared for this contingency for the past twenty years. If the government ever says the word, I get a one-way ticket across the Atlantic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Sep 02nd 2014, 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC