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alexisfree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:12 PM
Original message
Pledge Lawsuit Could Mean Big Costs to School Districts


The five local school districts being sued by a Sacramento atheist say they will defend the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance, but they say it will take time and resources away from the educational process.

Administrators for the school districts in Rio Linda, Elverta, Elk Grove and Stockton say they have insurance that will cover the costs of defending against the lawsuit filed by Michael Newdow, but they believe their premiums will go up. When that happens, they say money will be diverted from classrooms.

On Tuesday Newdow (shown above) filed a lawsuit to get the schools to stop having students recite the phrase "under God" during the daily Pledge of Allegiance. He contends the latest suit has fixed the problems that caused the U.S. Supreme Court to decline to hear his previous case last June. more..

http://www.kxtv10.com/storyfull1.asp?id=8937
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TaleWgnDg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Shall we all pitch in and buy a box of


Shall we all pitch in and buy a box of Kleenex for the "five local school districts being sued?" boohoo boohoo :::sob, sob, sob:::


.
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AliciaKeyedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. So who suffers?
The children.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I pledge allegence to whatever you tell me.
Edited on Fri Jan-07-05 11:28 PM by JanMichael
Who suffers?

The collective mind, that's who.

Edit: Whoops! I forgot to tell you about this link. What do you think? Is it playing in your neck of the woods?
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AliciaKeyedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. There we disagree
I have no problem with pledging or the current pledge as long as it remains voluntary.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. And how pray tell is is that done in a non-coersive way?
All the little commies go out in hall while rest pledge allegence to a piece of cloth?

I take it you've been through a public elementary school, can you imagine what may occur in some places in this great big land of "ours"?
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AliciaKeyedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Stay seated
But don't put our kids in a silly bubble protecting them from the entire world.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. And try to not indoctrinate them all in one fell swoop.
Edited on Fri Jan-07-05 11:41 PM by JanMichael
Free will and such ought to pay heed to the acknowledged effect of mass rote control.

EDIT: I know that you like to play "I've made the last post so POOH!" game so this is my last post on this thread to you. Good night!
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Um
see my post below. Even kids who are excused with a parent note because of legitimate religious objection have to STAND. They may not stay seated.

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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. The PROBLEM is, it is NOT voluntary
in Texas, there is a state law, passed in June of 2003, which makes it MANDATORY for every child, teacher, and administrator to say each day:

1. the US pledge
2. the Texas pledge
3. observe one minute of silence.

Children can be excused ONLY:

1. with a note from parent and ONLY on the grounds of RELIGIOUS OBJECTION (ie: Jehovah's Witness).

Teachers and administrators, though adults themselves, cannot write themselves a note, and cannot be excused from it for ANY REASON, not even religious objection.

How's them apples?

So far, no one's challenged it, but it's just a matter of time.

Now, when the state passes silly laws like that which eventually force school districts to pay money answering legal challenges and the kids suffer, WHO is to blame?

The STATE.

Drop the pledge(s).
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Drat. I think the lick is broken on the above post.
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TaleWgnDg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. One must be aware of the history of this issue as well as . . .
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 01:04 AM by TaleWgnDg
One must be aware of the history of this issue as well as the first amendment's Separation of Church and State . . .

First of all, the words "under God" were added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954. How were those words added? The words "under God" were added to the Pledge when the Roman Catholic Church's Knights of Columbus petitioned the government to include the words. And, congress did so. Congress added those religious words due to a religious sect petitioning the government to do so. That's a very important historical fact in this case.

http://exit3.i-55.com/~minkusmj/Pledge.html

What the hell is our government doing? Surely, one may reason, correctly, that congressional intent, here, was to place religion within state dealings. The state, here, is public schools. Children say the Pledge in public schools. Therefore, there is a defeat of the first amendment's Separation of Church and State. A constitutional violation of that clause. Here, there's co-mingling of Church and State when children in public schools say the Pledge with the words "under God."

This is nothing more than common sense particularly when looking at the history of the words "under God."

So if the public schools (and/or other state institutions) want to contest the court actions brought by parents who object to their children being exposed to the co-mingling of Church and State, then don't blame the parents or the children. Instead, blame the public schools and/or the state who force such litigation and the expense of this litigation.

All of this is why I shed crocodile tears in my post #1 (above) for the "five local school districts being sued" who are complaining through their attorney that the litigation has the potential to cost money for the schools to defend. Hey, why are the schools in court? Why not just drop the Pledge? Note, too, that it's the attorney who is trying to "score points" for his legal position . . . try pity for the schools in the public forum of camera and microphone and news reports! Nothing like "trying your case in the news media" and not the courtroom! And you bit too.

.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hey five school districts:
I have a money saving, no going to court idea! Drop "under God!" Better yet, drop the pledge altogether! It's silly, little kids don't know what it means, older kids barely bother to mouth the words, it's only to make adults feel like they are making good little Americans out of them.

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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Hey now - you stop talkin' sense like that there
That kinda thinkin's gonna tare our cuntry apart. Why ifina we hadnt a had the pledge we would be run over by commies, nazis and other heathens. You libral pinkos think that any ole minority gots rights to. Heck perty soon you will let the women foke and blacks vote too.
This here is whats called a moral



Oh, forget it. I can't keep up stupid guy mode very long. It's too painful.

:dunce:
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
14. Solution
Drop the pledge! Problem solved! Have the always slighted "Christians" in your school? Let them go in the hallways and say the pledge there, while other students remain in their seats in the classroom. All done!
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