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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:02 PM
Original message
Wonder why anyone reads 'conspiracy theories'? Then read this summary.
(Below is just the intro. The author's brief chronology of 50 years worth of secret players behind the headlines gives you a template for understanding the simple tale behind the confusion of 'conspiracy.'-JOM)

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/011004Hasty/011...
(Paranoid Shift by Michael Hasty

Angleton told author Joseph Trento that the reason he had gotten the counterintelligence job in the first place was by agreeing not to submit "sixty of Allen Dulles' closest friends" to a polygraph test concerning their business deals with the Nazis. In his end-of-life despair, Angleton assumed that he would see all his old companions again "in hell."

>snip<

I worked at the CIA myself as a low-level clerk as a teenager in the '60s. This was at the same time I was beginning to question the government's actions in Vietnam. In fact, my personal "paranoid shift" probably began with the disillusionment I felt when I realized that the story of American foreign policy was, at the very least, more complicated and darker than I had hitherto been led to believe.

But for most of the next 30 years, even though I was a radical, I nevertheless held faith in the basic integrity of a system where power ultimately resided in the people, and whereby if enough people got together and voted, real and fundamental change could happen.

What constitutes my personal paranoid shift is that I no longer believe this to be necessarily true.

"In his book, "Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower," William Blum warns of how the media will make anything that smacks of "conspiracy theory" an immediate "object of ridicule." This prevents the media from ever having to investigate the many strange interconnections among the ruling classfor example, the relationship between the boards of directors of media giants, and the energy, banking and defense industries. These unmentionable topics are usually treated with what Blum calls "the media's most effective toolsilence." But in case somebody's asking questions, all you have to do is say, "conspiracy theory," and any allegation instantly becomes too frivolous to merit serious attention.

On the other hand, since my paranoid shift, whenever I hear the words "conspiracy theory" (which seems more often, lately) it usually means someone is getting too close to the truth."

>snip<
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. I too have felt the sting of the accustory epithet...
Edited on Fri Jan-07-05 11:07 PM by RBHam
"Tinfoil Wearer", "Whacko", "Knee Jerk Paranoid"... etc. etc.

Many here gleefully join in the refrain...

It works like a charm...

It's how they get away with treason, theft and murder...
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. History is full of conspiracies
yet they have been discounted now in everyday life.

Why would that be, I wonder?
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lenidog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I don't think they are discounted amy less than they used to
in the past. Then again there are conspiracy theories and then there are conspiracy theories. Like JFK getting shot we know that is a true one, we just don't know which version is true. Then there is Lydon Larouche saying that the Queen of England is the head of an organization that rules the worlds drug trade.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I think its better said that history is full of conspirators.
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 12:21 PM by shance
:)
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. After WWII, the CIA controlled the media for propaganda. It never stopped.
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 01:06 PM by JohnOneillsMemory
It was called Operation Mockingbird and it never stopped.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MOCK/...


All the mainstream media outlets 'did their part' in the war effort and even more so during the Cold War as the CIA got their talons into every prominent journalist they could. That was just about all of them.

Realize that behind the 'patriotic' co-operation was also the knowledge of what happens to those who don't play ball. The corporate management internalized this threat/mandate and enforce it by firing anyone who doesn't play along.

Try googling up 'Gary Webb'+ 'Cocaine'+'CIA'+'IranContra'.

Try googling up 'Cokie Roberts'+'father's plane crash'+'Hoover'.

Try googling up a book called 'In to the Buzz Saw' about what happens to reporters who step out of bounds against their fascist masters.

TWA800 was shot down by a missile off NYC in July 1996 and only Pierre Salinger announced this publicly. He was portrayed as a wacky 'conspiracy theorist' in the press and the story was dissipated with months of 'inconclusive investigation.' Hundreds of people were eyewitnesses, including former military pilots in nearby planes.
http://prorev.com/twa800.htm

After 9/11, some received a little US military-grade anthrax in their mail while Congress was creating a police-state and preparing to occupy the oil spigot called Iraq.
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. CIA & MEDIA
CIA & MEDIA

"Some of these journalists relationships with the Agency were tacit; some were explicit. There was cooperation, accommodation and overlap. Journalists provided a full range of clandestine services from simple intelligence- gathering to serving as go-betweens with spies in Communist countries. Reporters shared their notebooks with the CIA. Editors shared their staffs. Some of the journalists were Pulitzer Prize winners, distinguished reporters who considered themselves ambassadors-without-portfolio for their country. Most were less exalted: foreign correspondents who found that their association with the Agency helped their work; stringers and freelancers who were as interested it the derring-do of the spy business as in filing articles, and, the smallest category, full-time CIA employees masquerading as journalists abroad. In many instances, CIA documents show, journalists were engaged to perform tasks for the CIA with the consent of the managements Americas leading news organizations.

The history of the CIAs involvement with the American press continues to be shrouded by an official policy of obfuscation and deception . . . . - Carl Bernstein, 1977

http://www.class.uidaho.edu/mickelsen/Media%20Readings/...


The Times reported that over the last twenty years, the CIA owned or subsidized more than fifty newspapers, news services, radio stations, periodicals and other communications facilities, most of them overseas. These were used for propaganda efforts, or even as cover for operations. Another dozen foreign news organizations were infiltrated by paid CIA agents. At least 22 American news organizations had employed American journalists who were also working for the CIA, and nearly a dozen American publishing houses printed some of the more than 1,000 books that had been produced or subsidized by the CIA. When asked in a 1976 interview whether the CIA had ever told its media agents what to write, William Colby replied, "Oh, sure, all the time."

http://www.stanford.edu/class/e297c/war_peace/media_war...

The Myth of the Liberal Media
The Propaganda Model of News
Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky demolish one of the central tenets of our political culture, the idea of the "liberal media." Instead, utilizing a systematic model based on massive empirical research, they reveal the manner in which the news media are so subordinated to corporate and conservative interests that their function can only be described as that of "elite propaganda."

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6435.ht...

YOU CANNOT HAVE A GLOBAL EMPIRE WITHOUT TOTAL CONTROL OF YOUR DOMESTIC POLITICS

-------------------


The Propaganda Model of News
1997
(60 min)

An excellent discussion about how the news is sculpted to present a certain viewpoint of events around the world. Featuring Noam Chomsky, Edward Herman and Justin Lewis.

Download 32.6MB
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/myth_of_the_liberal_medi...



THE PAUL MORAN STORY
uly 23, 2003
(20:17 min)

Paul Moran died after a suicide bombing in Iraq. He was a reporter for ABC, and one of the strongest voices along with Judith Miller of the New York Times, to claim Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. At his funeral it raised eyebrows whenCIA, FBI, and other secret agents popped up to pay their respects. In this report, an investigation in how the secret service operates within the mainstream media.

Watch Online
http://203.15.102.143:8080/ramgen/media/dl_030724b.rm


GARY WEBB: INHISWORDS
Download 23MB (8:15 min)
Gary Webb broke the story of the CIAs involvement in cocaine.
http://www.archive.org/download/Gary_Webb2/Gary_Webb_bb...


"Spin"
Brian Springer
Video, 1995, (60 min.)

Using the 1992 presidential election as his springboard, documentary filmmaker Brian Springer captures the behind-the-scenes maneuverings of politicians and newscasters in the early 1990s. Pat Robertson banters about "homos," Al Gore learns how to avoid abortion questions, George Bush talks to Larry King about halcyon -- all presuming they're off camera. Composed of 100% unauthorized satellite footage, Spin is a surreal expose of media-constructed reality.
Download 574MB
http://illegal-art.org/video/vcd/Spin_1.mpg



Bill Moyers "The Secret Government"
aired on PBS in 1987 and is as good as anything on the tape. Bill Moyers is one of the most recognizable and celebrated journalists whose approach to investigative journalism is highly respected. Known for his award winning PBS documentaries, in this segment he interviews several different people involved with the CIA and other government agencies who speak about various U.S. foreign policy covert and overt operations that took place during the Cold War era. His documentary gives quite an overview of what has actually happened in the last 50 years regarding the founding of the National Security Agency and the CIA. (22:04)

Download part1 2.94MB
http://storage.testpad.net/freedomfiles.org/Secretgov1....
and part2 2.66MB
http://storage.testpad.net/freedomfiles.org/Secretgov2....


S-11 REDUX
Download 40MB (10:53 min)
During wartime, media & government become one
http://www.archive.org/download/redux/redux_256kb.mov


EAST TIMOR BLACKOUT
Download 30MB (8:07 min)
Savage oppression backed by U.S. ignored by news outlets.
http://www.archive.org/download/east_timor/east_timor.m...


WAR CONSPIRACY
Download 16MB (4:17 min)
The CIA, the oily elite and their manipulation of foreign policy.
http://www.archive.org/download/war/war_256kb.mov


OWNING THE PEACOCK
Download 18MB (4:53 min)
The unholy alliance of General Electric& NBC.
http://www.archive.org/download/nbc_1_/nbc_1_.mov


Many more videos avail. for download here-
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7dhyg/id3.html
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bo44 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Exactly
Edited on Fri Jan-07-05 11:23 PM by bo44
To think that Americans from a boot shaped peninsula and a neighboring isle are the only group of people that have sat around a table and drew up plans to fuck shit up for their own gain at the expense of others is naive. The shit a clique of descendants with Pilgrim's blood can fuck up in the world community and never fear it ever being labeled and smeared trumps what small time immigrant crooks and merchants have done to their communities throughout the country.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. It's so nice to see you respond first RB!
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 12:56 PM by anarchy1999
We stand proud and tall, right with you.

(If anyone needs any tin foil in the days ahead, we have a closet full).

TREASON, THEFT, MURDER. JFK comes first to mind.

on edit:

"Something's happening here,
What it is, ain't exactly clear..."



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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. OOOOOOOOOuch........Are there not enough conspiracy theories here ?
Anarachy is right..

IMO
Someone wants everyone to look loony toons.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Hi, vetwife. Have you read the history of 20th century/Bush/Hitler/CIA ?
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 03:56 AM by JohnOneillsMemory
It is a story of torture and mass murder covered up with flags.
Pretty sad, hunh?

I've read your posts about the work you do taking care of your own spouse and other vets. I certainly admire and support you for that.

Many of us would like to stop the war criminals in DC who abuse our own troops over and over by using them for economic reasons instead of national security and then don't even provide the most basic healthcare and financial support to the Americans who've offered up everything to their government out of a trust that seems less and less deserved with every passing day.

That's what threads like this are about. I hope you can use all the info here to help prevent our people in the services from being put through hell in the first place. We sure do need to hear more from vets and their families.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. CIA insiders have given us some DIRE warnings. Here are more sources.
More primer for newbies and experts alike:

The CIA has controlled the mainstream media for decades, long before Rupert Murdoch got Faux News Propaganda going or before Williams was paid a quarter million to push the 'No Child Left Behind' scam for the White House.

Journalists who aren't willing are bought off or threatened. Or recieve anthrax in the mail as a reminder. Or are just plain fired.
Google up 'Cokie Roberts' + 'father' + 'Hoover' + 'plane crash.'

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MOCK/...
(CIA Operation Mockingbird)

This is why you never heard about what really happened on 9/11.
http://www.oilempire.us/wargames.html
(NORAD/CIA War Games During 9/11 Attacks)

This is all that surfaced about this 'coincidence.' No TV, no 9/11 Ommission Panel, no pundits, nada. Just a tiny AP article almost a year later in the dead of summer.
ttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2002...
(Associated Press Aug. 21, 2002)

More CIA stuff from one of the most famous insiders who describes how the CIA grew like a virus after WWII and took over the US government. The disasters of the Bay of Pigs and Vietnam caused some to reveal dirt:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/ST.html
(L. Fletcher Prouty, ex-CIA, The Secret Team 1955-1964)

Here is a CIA warning about eliminating the Constitution, prison camps, torture, execution, aggressive wars, caused by people in the Reagan White House who are back in the saddle today-neocons!
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.ht...
(Former CIA Station Chief for Angola John Stockwell 1987 Tell All.)

The Nazis were just one brand of fascism financed by American bankers, corporation owners and weapon manufacturers like the Bush family, Henry Ford, the DuPonts, the Dulles brothers (one became Secretary of State and the other headed the CIA in the fifties.)

Did you know that hundreds of Nazis were brought into the US government to build the CIA and NASA? Hitler was reincarnated back at his financial backing center, the United States.

Did you know that corporations attempted a coup against FDR in 1934 to prevent the New Deal? Or that Nazis funded 33% of the Republican campaign against FDR in 1940 to keep the US out of the war?

This will give you a good 100-year history of
The Nazi Hydra in America:
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/noon.html
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
6. Ill know my song well before I start singing
While we were laying that paper out, in the background we could hear a record, and the song was named Ballad of a Thin Man by Bob Dylan. Now the melody was in my head... but I didnt really hear the words. This record played after we stayed up laying out the paper. And it played the next night after we stayed up laying out the paper. I think it was around the third afternoon that the record was playing. We played that record over and over and over.

Huey P. Newton made me recognize the lyrics. Not only the lyrics of the record, but what the lyrics meant in the record. What the lyrics meant in the history of racism that had perpetuated itself in the world. Huey would say: Listen, listen man, do you hear what he is saying? Huey had such insight into how racism existed, how racism had perpetuated himself. He had such a way of putting forth in very clear words what he related directly to those symbolic things or words that were coming out from Bobby Dylan.

I remember that the song got to the point where he was talking about this cat handing in his ticket and he walked up to the geek, and the geek handed him a bone. Well, this didnt relate to me, so I said: Huey, look, wait a minute, man. I said, What are you talking about a geek? What is a geek? What the hell is a geek? And Huey explains it.

Newtons explanation runs for almost a page: a geek, he tells Seale, is usually a circus performer, who has been badly injured and cant work any longer. But he knows no other life than the circus, so he agrees to do the lowliest jobs just to stay in the community. Maybe he even agrees to eat live chickens in a cage as a freak attraction. Newton continues:

These people who are coming in to see him are coming in for entertainment, so they are the real freaks. And the geek knows this, so during his performance, he eats the raw chicken and he hands one of the members of the audience a bone.

Then to put it on the broader level, what Dylan is putting across is middle-class people or upper-class people who sometimes take a Sunday afternoon off and put their whole family into a limousine, and they go down to the black ghettos to watch the prostitutes and watch the decaying community.(...) That makes the middle-class and upper-class people, who are down there because they get pleasure out of it, freaks.

And this goes into the one-eyed midget. What is the one-eyed midget? He screams and howls at Mr. Jones. Mr. Jones doesnt know whats happening. Then the one-eyed midget says, give me some juice or go home. And this again is very symbolic of people who are disadvantaged. Theyre patronizing Mr. Jones, the middle-class people. You know, theyre not interested in them coming down for entertainment. But if theyll pay them for a trick, then theyll tolerate them, or else theyll drive them out of the ghettoes. This song is hell. Youve got to understand that this song is saying a hell of a lot about society.
http://www.judasmagazine.com/Pages/Issue%201%20Peter%20...



You walk into the room
With your pencil in your hand
You see somebody naked
And you say, "Who is that man?"
You try so hard
But you don't understand
Just what you'll say
When you get home

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You raise up your head
And you ask, "Is this where it is?"
And somebody points to you and says
"It's his"
And you say, "What's mine?"
And somebody else says, "Where what is?"
And you say, "Oh my God
Am I here all alone?"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You hand in your ticket
And you go watch the geek
Who immediately walks up to you
When he hears you speak
And says, "How does it feel
To be such a freak?"
And you say, "Impossible"
As he hands you a bone

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You have many contacts
Among the lumberjacks
To get you facts
When someone attacks your imagination
But nobody has any respect
Anyway they already expect you
To just give a check
To tax-deductible charity organizations

You've been with the professors
And they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have
Discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of
F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well read
It's well known

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Well, the sword swallower, he comes up to you
And then he kneels
He crosses himself
And then he clicks his high heels
And without further notice
He asks you how it feels
And he says, "Here is your throat back
Thanks for the loan"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Well, you walk into the room
Like a camel and then you frown
You put your eyes in your pocket
And your nose on the ground
There ought to be a law
Against you comin' around
You should be made
To wear earphones

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Dylan
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. DU should be wall-to-wall info like this for the newbies and MSM who peek.
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 01:34 PM by JohnOneillsMemory
Just as Hitler wrote that The Big Lie was the easiest to sell because people used little lies everyday and couldn't imagine a big one would be used so brazenly,

THE-BIG-LIE, The Master 'Conspiracy Theory', the dot-connecting of the decades of Ruling Class/Robber Baron/Spook atrocities covered up with wall-to-wall propaganda...

IS THE ONLY WAY TO REACH THOSE WHO DON'T 'GET IT'!

NOT...THE LITTLE LIES!
THIS IS AS IMPORTANT AS ANYTHING YOU'VE LEARNED SO FAR.

In exactly the same way that Dems become invisible when they run to the center and claim 'moderation,' trying to nibble around the edges of fascism is FUTILE.

As long as we cower in response to TOM DELAY'S EPITHET OF BEING THE "X-FILES WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY,"...

FASCISM WINS. It takes the time and "HARD WORK" of doing the homework to know the story, spreading it, and sticking to it bravely in print and conversation.

DU can do this. I'm convinced all this is true and crucial to our survival as a species.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. BOOKMARK THIS THREAD
remember this?

The DU 9/11 reading room
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The crimes hidden behind "national security" must be prosecuted.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

TERROR ALERT: If you dont think the BFEE is capable of bombing our own -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Anti Conspiracy Ostriches - how do you ignore MKULTRA?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"From PSYOP to Mindwar" - be afraid
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Why do people say such TERRIBLE things about the Bush Family?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

OSWALD was CIA (OFFICIAL)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"Jonestown, the CIA and mind control"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

!! Whaaaa!! 4/4/01 Fox show of government plot to hijacked planes ....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

It's time for another Bush/Nazis thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

DRAFT Timeline -- (must read) Shows how Bush plans June 15, 2005 LOTTERY
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Peak Oil - Okay, I'm terrified.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Bush Crime Family S.O.P. Use a Patsy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Aerial mind control (Commando Solo) and Rumsfeld's "Message to
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

bin Laden's money flow leads back to Midland, Texas
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

DOJ Asked FBI Translator To Change Pre 9-11 Intercepts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Bush/Cheney White House "Busted" Over Sept 11th Claims
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Speculation: Joint US-Israeli invasion of Syria in the Fall?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Poll question: Do you think RFK was murdered as part of a conspiracy?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Wellstone Was Murdered"American Assassination," two professors explain how
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

A Short History of Saddam-Bush-Noriega Business
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Bush's Erratic Behavior Worries White House Aides
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

BFEE Treasure Trove
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The Bush Family: Who's the worst?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Case Closed- Conspiracy: The Dallas Doctors vs. JFKs Autopsy Photographs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Paedophilic Repugs, rape, whoring, attempted murder and the BFEE,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Rumsfeld, Iran/Contra, Iraqgate, shaking hands with Saddam
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The Iran Hostage Crisis of 1980.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

BFEE Factbook: GW Bush, James R Bath & House of bin Laden
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

FBI intensively reviewing several high-profile neocons going back 30 years
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Spy Probe Scans Neocon-Israeli Ties/IPS--(going back 30 years!)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Spy Probe Scans Neo Con-Israel Ties PROMIS - INSLAW,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Call to Octafish: We need massive linkage on BCCI and IranContra.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Indira Singh/PTech deep moles in FAA help accomplish 9/11! WTF??
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

BUSH, Masons, 911 & The Knights Templar
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

CSPAN Radio to air RFK interview
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



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Peak_Oil Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. You guys make me look like a Freemason.
Seriously. People think peak oil is wacky, wait til they get ahold of you guys.

Not that you're necessarily wrong, but.... you fuckers have your phasers set on "Wackjob." Nobody listens. Seriously, I wish all of us conspiracy theorists should get together and hound on one single issue with the idea that if you crack the facade in one place, and people can see through it, you'll get the rest down fairly quickly.

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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Big Picture at the same time as the singular ice pick thru one cover story
We must say what the puzzle picture is while we fill in the pieces.
Atleast the border outline so the audience can fill in the spaces.

FRAMING, George Lakoff's intellectual baby in 'Don't Think of an Elephant.'

This framing concept is the latest liberal response to Psy-Ops Nation.
It involves getting the tone of a concept UP FRONT in the words you use to describe it, PROPER-GANDA to counter the propaganda.

Framing is intellectual PRE-EMPTIVE JUDGING and IT WORKS.
1) Give a Big Picture outline showing the borders of the puzzle.
2) Show how one little piece fits in.
3) Show how another piece fits in.
4) Give the audience the whole box of pieces and they'll put it together.

A bunch of seperate and confusing ideas DOES NOT CREATE COMPREHENSION, OUTRAGE, AND ACTION.

Being so pissed that all you can do is spread the word to everyone who will listen is the way to inform 280 million Americans on the scam they are complicit in.

I argue with my college history professor mother about the balance between dropping bread crumbs for her students to piece together on their own ('teach a man to fish')

and describing the whole loaf ('give a man a fish') so they can put the crumbs together before they end up in Baghdad holding the prisoner's leash or getting killed.

Cogent evidence that snaps your head back MUST be used at the same time so that you have A COHERENT NARRATIVE, the 'better story' that Michael Moore urges the Dems to embrace or lose forever.

Like:
*Operation Vigilant Warrior during the 9/11 attacks.
*Voting machines counted backwards in Florida and Oklahoma.
*The Bush family and US corporations financed Hitler.
*The president can kidnap, torture, and execute people in his dungeon called Gitmo Bay.
*TWA800 was shot down by a missile during US military exercises.

etc. etc.

Since most Americans think history began with 9/11 and it justifies Operation Global Lynching, I start with Operation Vigilant Warrior and that has opened many minds who thought "WTF?!"
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Bushes generate conspiracies faster than the public can keep up.
Same for institutions, like the Free Press. Unfortunately, the mainstream media aren't free. They're expensive. And they're monopoly-owned and operated.

Here's some of what Corporate McPravda have missed:

Know your BFEE: A Crime Line of Treason

Some DUers don't believe there's a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy or even a Bush Family Evil Empire.

Hey, I'm a Democrat and respect other's opinions and views.

But I do believe in the VRWC and BFEE, perhaps more accurately termed the Bush Transnational Criminal Enterprise. Here's why:

Bush Crime Line

Vietnam
Bay of Pigs
Chile
Watergate
October Surprise
El Salvador
Reagan Survives Hinckley and Bush
NAZI Ethnics for Reagan-Bush
Voodoo Economics
INSLAW/Promis
Haiti
Iraq-gate / Banca Nazionale del Lavoro arms to Saddam
BCCI International Money Laundering for Terrorists & Intelligence Community and financing Dr AQ Khan
Savings & Loan scandal in general and Silverado in particular
Iran-contra Guns/Drugs/Martial Law
Gulf War I Glaspie Gives Go-Ahead
Selection 2000 Shreds US Constitution
Tax Cuts for UltraRich
Criminal Justice Department
Suicidal Environmental Policy
ENRON Energy Policy
9-11 Criminal Negligence, at best; Treason, most likely
Illegal Iraq Invasion
Paperless Selection 2004
Piratization of Social Security (projected)

Its interesting in reviewing the above list, just how much ultra-right, conservative Republican leadership has really been. More than a listing of criminality, the list demonstrates there have been many treasonous activites against We the People through business opportunities in the finance, energy, and defense industries.

There is one FAMILY name that runs through all the history, the four decades since the JFK administration. Since the very hour of President Kennedys death, and through the list of sinister events and unrelenting criminality noted above a record of infamy stretching back 41 years today appears the name George Herbert Walker Bush, a tradition continued by his son, George Walker Bush, beard of the BFEE.



Yes. I have links.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Gotta take it back to the 20's-Harriman bros./Prescott Bush/Hitler.
Wouldn't want to leave out something like building Hitler's war machine and destroying Europe, would you?

Kind of makes the rest of the crimes seem anti-climactic...

George Jr. has only been in office for a few years but his family and their ilk (financiers, robber barons, eugenics fans) bankrolled the building of Hitler's war machine. They even built a factory near Auschwitz to use slave labor.

The rest of the big money in the US was also backing fascism where it could and had attempted a fascist coup against FDR in 1934 to prevent the New Deal. It was stopped at the last minute by General Smedley Butler of 'War is a Racket'-fame , the first insider warning against the Military Industrial Complex published in 1937.

Prescott Bush was briefly busted in 1942 for his dealings with the Nazis and was called 'Hitler's Angel' in the newspapers. He was a senator by 1952.

The Dulles brothers had been handling/hiding financial dealings with the Nazis but were Secretary of State AND head of CIA in the fifties.

Does this tell you something? The horror of Hitler wasn't/isn't just about killing lots of Jews, horrible as the Holocaust was.

This is a comprehensive history of 100 years of fascism in the US.
It will horrify you to read how the US has been ruled by murderous fascists who financed it around the world and still do.
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/noon.html
(The Nazi Hydra in America)

Also worth reading:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.ht...
(6 Million Killed in CIA Secret Wars)
Former CIA Station Chief in Angola tells all in 1987 and warns of Reagan administration's plans for eliminating the Bill of Rights, use of pre-emptive war, secret detention and execution. We are now living this nightmare under the same people back in power.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040513-052654-525...
(Files Show Nazi Criminal's US Intel Role)

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2001/051601a.html
(CIA's Worst Kept Secret, Nazi General Reinhard Gehlen)

http://www.infoage.org/paperclip.html
(Operation Paperclip and Camp Evans, New Jersey)

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/hr071498/maloney.html
(Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.statecraft.org /
(US Guerilla Warfare 1940-1990)

http://empirewatch.org/pages/_archives/fascism/pages/14...
(14 Symptoms of Fascism)

http://www.anesi.com/fscale.htm
(Fascism Receptivity Psychological Questionaire)

http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:ev_7ZGNwjNYC:www.h...
(FEMA-America's Secret Government)
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Agree with you 100-percent. We need to see the Big Picture.
Your resources well-document the Bushes' treason, JohnOneillsMemory. Would that all DUers knew this history. In my haste, I've only listed those that can lead us to prosecuting the living. The reality is the Bush-Walker-Harriman history is among the lowest known in America. Pure Evil.

The record shows their involvment in the eugenics movement at the turn of the century; the welcoming and enlistment of NAZI war criminals; and unleashing CIA to spy on and mind-freak the American people. And all while they loot the Treasury to buy arms to fight the Cold War that benefited their supporters most handsomely for 50 years. And that brings us to the War on Drugs, which eroded civil liberties; and the War on Terror, which eroded citizenship.

Let's see....

Hyping Terror For Fun, Profit - And Power

by Thom Hartmann

What if there really was no need for much - or even most - of the Cold War? What if, in fact, the Cold War had been kept alive for two decades based on phony WMD threats?

What if, similarly, the War On Terror was largely a scam, and the administration was hyping it to seem larger-than-life? What if our "enemy" represented a real but relatively small threat posed by rogue and criminal groups well outside the mainstream of Islam? What if that hype was done largely to enhance the power, electability, and stature of George W. Bush and Tony Blair?

And what if the world was to discover the most shocking dimensions of these twin deceits - that the same men promulgated them in the 1970s and today?

It happened.

The myth-shattering event took place in England the first three weeks of October, when the BBC aired a three-hour documentary written and produced by Adam Curtis, titled "The Power of Nightmares." If the emails and phone calls many of us in the US received from friends in the UK - and debate in the pages of publications like The Guardian are any indicator, this was a seismic event, one that may have even provoked a hasty meeting between Blair and Bush a few weeks later.

CONTINUED...

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1207-26.htm

Tinoire had a great thread on this a a couple days back...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

And because these turds know that the rich have money for taxes, they tried to bump off FDR more than once.

The Attempted Coup Against FDR

By Barbara LaMonica

The John F. Kennedy assassination represents a theme in our political history. The causes, even the inevitability, of the assassination were born out of the power struggles among the ruling elite which are consistent throughout the American story. These struggles revolve around questions of what is the proper role of government vis a vis the business communitys pursuit of its own self-interest. Is the governments role minimal or laissez-faire? Should government only provide a stable environment of "law and order", through increased police powers, conducive to the maximization of profits and the minimization of workers wages and benefits? Or does the government have a higher purpose? Is it responsible for the common good? Is it the one entity capable of implementing justice, equality, and a partial redistribution of wealth through the regulation and taxation of corporations in order to provide a cushion against the more egregious effects of the free market? Should it ensure the workers share in the profits they helped to create?

At various times factions of what has become known as "corporate America" have argued over which role of government is ultimately more advantageous to their own ends. Generally speaking, banking and Wall Street favor less government. Retail, light manufacturing and small to medium size corporations are more tolerant of an activist government which might put more money in the hands of their consumers, and protect small businesses against the unfair competitive practices of larger corporations.

The stock market crash of 1929 and the ensuing Great Depression dramatically thrust the question of governments role to the forefront of American political and corporate life. The election of Franklin Delano Roosevelt represented a revolutionary realignment of political power: the ascendancy of the Democratic party facilitated by new voting coalitions of rural south and industrialized north which dislodged the Republican Partys nearly seventy-year dominance, signaling the abandonment of laissez-faire economics in favor of state regulation. The losers in this political process coalesced into right-wing Republicanism, and the next sixty years of American history is, in part, the story of their attempt to regain power, reinstitute Lassiez-faire policies, and dismantle the New Deal.1 I would like to suggest that the forces behind the assassination of President Kennedy were born in the furies which the Great Depression unleashed between these competing sectors of American political and economic life.

I believe that in 1934 there was a foreshadowing of the JFK assassination. A conspiracy was uncovered in which right-wing elements of big business, namely the DuPont family and the Morgan banking interests, planned to finance and arm a veterans army to march on the White House and hold President Roosevelt captive.2 The conspiracy was reported by two- time Congressional Medal of Honor winner Marine Corps Major General Smedley Darlington Butler. Although the House Committee to Investigate Un-American Activities found his allegations credible, it failed to call major conspirators to testify, and the Committee deleted crucial testimony from its final report to the public. The press relegated the story to the back pages, and discredited those, including Major Butler, who tried to alert the public to the threat against republican government. No prosecutions were forthcoming from the Justice Department, in part because the main witness who would have substantiated Butlers claims died suddenly from pneumonia at the age of 37. In short, there was a cover-up, maybe worse.

CONTINUED...

http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr399-fdr.html
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Speaking of death-squads and the Reagan years...
(Here's a 1987 warning from a CIA insider on the US atrocities in Central America and the world along with a warning about what is now known as the Patriot Act, the Gitmo Bay dungeon, and the disappearance US citizens to carry out illegal wars with impunity.)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.ht...

John Stockwell, former CIA Station Chief in Angola in 1976, working for then Director of the CIA, George Bush. He spent 13 years in the agency. He gives a short history of CIA covert operations. He is a very compelling speaker and the highest level CIA officer to testify to the Congress about his actions. He estimates that over 6 million people have died in CIA covert actions, and this was in the late 1980's.

>snip<

"The CIA was in fact forming the police units that are today the death squads in El Salvador. With the leaders on the CIA's payroll, trained by the CIA and the United States.

We had the `public safety program' going throughout Central and Latin America for 26 years, in which we taught them to break up subversion by interrogating people. Interrogation, including torture, the way the CIA taught it. Dan Metrione, the famous exponent of these things, did 7 years in Brazil and 3 in Uruguay, teaching interrogation, teaching torture. He was supposed to be the master of the business, how to apply the right amount of pain, at just the right times, in order to get the response you want from the individual.

They developed a wire. They gave them crank generators, with `U.S. AID' written on the side, so the people even knew where these things came from. They developed a wire that was strong enough to carry the current and fine enough to fit between the teeth, so you could put one wire between the teeth and the other one in or around the genitals and you could crank and submit the individual to the greatest amount of pain, supposedly, that the human body can register.

Now how do you teach torture? Dan Metrione: `I can teach you about torture, but sooner or later you'll have to get involved. You'll have to lay on your hands and try it yourselves.'

.... All they could do was lie there and scream. And when they would collapse, they would bring in doctors and shoot them up with vitamin B and rest them up for the next class. And when they would die, they would mutilate the bodies and throw them out on the streets, to terrify the population so they would be afraid of the police and the government.

And this is what the CIA was teaching them to do.

>snip<

the Intelligence Identities Protection act, which makes it a felony to write articles revealing the identities of secret agents or to write about their activities in a way that would reveal their identities. Now, what does this mean? In a debate in Congress - this is very controversial - the supporters of this bill made it clear.... If agents Smith and Jones came on this campus, in an MK-ultra-type experiment, and blew your fiance's head away with LSD, it would now be a felony to publish an article in your local paper saying, `watch out for these 2 turkeys, they're federal agents and they blew my loved one's head away with LSD'. It would not be a felony what they had done because that's national security and none of them were ever punished for those activities.

Efforts to muzzle government employees. President Reagan has been banging away at this one ever since. Proposing that every government employee, for the rest of his or her life, would have to submit anything they wrote to 6 committees of the government for censorship, for the rest of their lives. To keep the scandals from leaking out... to keep the American people from knowing what the government is really doing.

Then it starts getting heavy. The `Pre-emptive Strikes' bill. President Reagan, working through the Secretary of State Shultz... almost 2 years ago, submitted the bill that would provide them with the authority to strike at terrorists before terrorists can do their terrorism. But this bill... provides that they would be able to do this in this country as well as overseas. It provides that the secretary of state would put together a list of people that he considers to be terrorist, or terrorist supporters, or terrorist sympathizers. And if your name, or your organization, is put on this list, they could kick down your door and haul you away, or kill you, without any due process of the law and search warrants and trial by jury, and all of that, with impunity.

Now, there was a tremendous outcry on the part of jurists. The New York Times columns and other newspapers saying, `this is no different from Hitler's "night in fog" program', where the government had the authority to haul people off at night. And they did so by the thousands. And President Reagan and Secretary Shultz have persisted.... Shultz has said, `Yes, we will have to take action on the basis of information that would never stand up in a court. And yes, innocent people will have to be killed in the process. But, we must have this law because of the threat of international terrorism'.

>snip<

They're building detention centers. There were 8 kept as mothballs under the McLaren act after World War II, to detain aliens and dissidents in the next war, as was done in the next war, as was done with the Japanese people during World War II. They're building 10 more, and army camps, and the... executive memos about these things say it's for aliens and dissidents in the next national emergency....

FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, headed by Loius Guiffrida, a friend of Ed Meese's.... He's going about the country lobbying and demanding that he be given authority, in the times of national emergency, to declare martial law, and establish a curfew, and gun down people who violate the curfew... in the United States.

And then there's Ed Meese, as I said. The highest law enforcement officer in the land, President Reagan's closest friend, going around telling us that the constitution never did guarantee freedom of speech and press, and due process of the law, and assembly.

What they are planning for this society, and this is why they're determined to take us into a war if we'll permit it... is the Reagan revolution.... So he's getting himself some laws so when he puts in
the troops in Nicaragua, he can take charge of the American people, and put people in jail, and kick in their doors, and kill them if they don't like what he's doing..."

>snip<

more if you can bear it...
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Kick. Did someone say 'elite death-squads in Iraq?' n/t
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. That would be The Salvador Option
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 10:47 PM by seemslikeadream

Mother with daughter at grave of son killed by death squads. San Salvador, 1991

The Pentagon may put Special-Forces-led assassination or kidnapping teams in Iraq

By Michael Hirsh and John Barry
Newsweek
Updated: 5:33 p.m. ET Jan. 8, 2005Jan. 8 - What to do about the deepening quagmire of Iraq? The Pentagons latest approach is being called "the Salvador option"and the fact that it is being discussed at all is a measure of just how worried Donald Rumsfeld really is. "What everyone agrees is that we cant just go on as we are," one senior military officer told NEWSWEEK. "We have to find a way to take the offensive against the insurgents. Right now, we are playing defense. And we are losing." Last Novembers operation in Fallujah, most analysts agree, succeeded less in breaking "the back" of the insurgencyas Marine Gen. John Sattler optimistically declared at the timethan in spreading it out.


Now, NEWSWEEK has learned, the Pentagon is intensively debating an option that dates back to a still-secret strategy in the Reagan administrations battle against the leftist guerrilla insurgency in El Salvador in the early 1980s. Then, faced with a losing war against Salvadoran rebels, the U.S. government funded or supported "nationalist" forces that allegedly included so-called death squads directed to hunt down and kill rebel leaders and sympathizers. Eventually the insurgency was quelled, and many U.S. conservatives consider the policy to have been a successdespite the deaths of innocent civilians and the subsequent Iran-Contra arms-for-hostages scandal. (Among the current administration officials who dealt with Central America back then is John Negroponte, who is today the U.S. ambassador to Iraq. Under Reagan, he was ambassador to Honduras.)

Following that model, one Pentagon proposal would send Special Forces teams to advise, support and possibly train Iraqi squads, most likely hand-picked Kurdish Peshmerga fighters and Shiite militiamen, to target Sunni insurgents and their sympathizers, even across the border into Syria, according to military insiders familiar with the discussions. It remains unclear, however, whether this would be a policy of assassination or so-called "snatch" operations, in which the targets are sent to secret facilities for interrogation. The current thinking is that while U.S. Special Forces would lead operations in, say, Syria, activities inside Iraq itself would be carried out by Iraqi paramilitaries, officials tell NEWSWEEK.
more
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6802629/site/newsweek /


US Martyrs Pose Questions for Negroponte
October 28, 2003

Authentic Americans
US Martyrs Pose Questions for Negroponte
By TONI SOLO

US nuns murdered in El Salvador

In 1981, a couple of decades before Rachel Corrie was murdered, the bodies of four women were found in a shallow grave in a rural district not far from San Salvador, El Salvador's capital. They had been raped and shot dead by members of the Salvadoran army on the orders of senior officers. In the context of the time, the atrocity would hardly have merited reporting. But the women were United States citizens. Two were religious sisters of the New York based Maryknoll order, Ita Ford and Maureen Clarke. One was an Ursuline Sister, Dorothy Kazel, the fourth a lay missioner, Jean Donovan. By virtue of their nationality, the story did make the news, just--the back page of the New York Times, to that paper's eternal shame.

Those four women had helped defend Salvadorans from the terror unleashed against their own people by the Salvadoran government with support from the United States administrations of Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan. They gave their lives working alongside vulnerable people and communities in El Salvador. The murders followed the assassination in 1980 of Salvadoran Archbishop Oscar Romero. The women's deaths were manipulated by the US government and its ever-pliant news media. The full facts took years to emerge. US ambassador to the UN, Jean Kirkpatrick, falsely accused the women of having supported the Salvadoran armed opposition, the FMLN. In fact, the four women were passionate advocates of non-violence, accompanying the rural villagers they served while caught up in a violent civil war.

Ambassador Kirkpatrick's statements on the case of the four women were to be expected from an unrepentant supporter of the bloodthirsty Argentinian military dictatorship. Her successor at the UN was Vernon Walters, former deputy director of the CIA, co-organiser of the continent wide terrorist blueprint Plan Condor and promoter of Ronald Reagan's terrorist war against Nicaragua. In 1986 Vernon Walters threw in the face of the UN his government's rejection of the International Court of Justice verdict convicting the US of terrorism against Nicaragua.

Kirkpatrick's and Walters' apologetics for mass murder helped John Negroponte, then US ambassador to Honduras, cover up his support for the systematic forced disappearances used to destroy Honduran civilian opposition to the presence of Contra bases in their country. Thomas Pickering, US ambassador to El Salvador at the time, also gave misleading information on local army and paramilitary murders, probably an essential qualification for his subsequent posting in 1989 as US ambassador to the UN, taking over from Vernon Walters.

Jean Kirkpatrick, Vernon Walters, Thomas Pickering, John Negroponte and other US government representatives sent clear signals that the local military in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala were to be allowed a free hand by the United States government to murder tens of thousands of civilians and anyone who spoke out against the slaughter. Perhaps the defining climax to the sickening murder campaign came in 1989 when the Salvadoran army killed six Jesuit academics and two of their domestic staff at the University of Central America in San Salvador. These crimes were made possible because the United States government consistently tried to conceal its institutional role in funding, training and supporting the military and paramilitary perpetrators. The Iran-Contra scandal was the culmination of that sustained program of regional deceit

http://www.counterpunch.org/solo10282003.html

By virtue of their nationality, the story did make the news, just--the back page of the New York Times, to that paper's eternal shame.


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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's So Easy To Believe In The Criminal Conspiracy Known As The Mafia
But only nutjobs believe in the Bush Family Criminal Enterprise.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
17. assuming that a "conspiracy theory" ceases to be a theory . . .
when an actual conspiracy is shown to exist . . . and since our government -- particularly under BushCo -- is just lousy with real, honest to goodness conspiracies of all kinds . . . doesn't the term "conspiracy theory" become something of an oxymoron? . . . sure does for me . . .
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. Kick. A corrupt system is rife with conspirators. n/t
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
23. Ridicule and political correctness won't diminish the truth-we are in
the grip of a real conspiracy-hello.
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
25. Why are there so many Conspiracy Theories?
Because there are so many conspiracies!

And to everyone who is worried that a discussion of all these anomalies will make "us" look like "wackjobs," try this: Don't look. It works really well for the majority of Americans and all of the Alleged News Media.

You see something that appears to be tinfoil? Don't look.
You see something that holds that our own government may not have our best interests at heart? Don't look.
You see something that scares you? Don't look.
You see something that might invite ridicule? Don't look.

Put those threads on Ignore. Put those posters on Ignore. You will no longer see That Which Upsets You--and you will live in a comforatble world. You'll see. It will all be...so...easy.

:tinfoilhat: since 1968,
dbt
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I'm looking dbt


:hi:
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