dean supporters

[friendofbenn]

q.what are your economic politics?


i'm wondering if most of the people who support him are economic conservatives like him

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. I think that is really an unfair question

One can be moderate on economic policy and responsible about the size of government and not tilt it unfairly towards the wealthy.

[friendofbenn]

2. well ok.

but when the system is tilting unfairly towards the wealthy in the first place no amount of economic moderation is going to solve it IMO

[sweetheart]

3. isn't that sort of a copout

"moderate" and "not tilt it unfairly towards the wealthy" are lovely aphorisms, but on the earth... is there a policy? TAx? Development? Regulation? surely if he's running as a great democrat to revive the horrid bush depression... there must be more substance.

Figure with so many dean-o-rama folks about, surely a more thorough explanation is possible.

[madfloridian]

4. Oh new one! Dean-a-rama??

Oh, please.

Don't call names, you get more answers.

[sweetheart]

15. sorry

I was making a joke... as so many places call themseves "xxx-o-rama" and it seemed a good establishment name to reference a place where dean policy is known.

Friend of Benn likely refers to a rather famous socialist liberal in britain member of parlment (MP)... and likely is out of the loop, as by his name, he is in britain.

so in all sincerity, he's asking why the economic solution to bush that many people are really bubbly about... what is the policy thinking of such individual..

and nothingshocksmeanymore suggest he is fiscally conservative... he balances his chequebook like every person on the bloody planet except neocons who failed maths.

Given Mr. Benn's friend might truly like to know, is there any more depth?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. I'm not a Dean-orama person, I am undecided and not totally

clear of his plans but from what I have heard, he is not what I would call fiscally conservative.

I AM against broadsides to the candidates though and by your same logic, the thread starter made the accusation and should be the first to pony up the evidence.

[zeemike]

12. I am not sure there is a name

For my economic position. I am not a capitalist, socialist, communist, fascist, Or any of the other “isms” that are known to be at least partial failures where success is defined as social justice and prosperity.
My ideal economic system is based on a very old idea but is needed more in this modern world than it was when it was first used. I am talking about the economic system of ancient Israel which was based on the law of the Sabbath.

[Ellen Forradalom]

5. We've had a recent experience with balanced budgets in this country

and it was a happy one. Lots of jobs, a rising stock market. Anyone who recognizes that fiscal responsibility is a central job of government has my approval.

[friendofbenn]

8. rich getting richer, poor getting poorer

i think we have different visions of responsibility

[Ellen Forradalom]

19. Our visions are not mutually exclusive.

We can prosecute corporate criminals, reign in corporate irresponsibility, promote fair trade practices, and balance the budget.

[Eloriel]

21. You're making connections that I don't believe automatically

go together. In fact, as little as I know about economics, I'm sure of it.

There is no AUTOMATIC nexis between a balanced budget and "the rich getting richer, poor getting poorer" as you are trying to say.

I am automatically suspicious of ANYone who doesn't believe we have GOT to move to a more balanced budget and cut deficits rather dramatically. I would hope that's not your position.

I also personally don't believe that it's a BAD thing to try to make sure that as a nation we live within our means. That doesn't mean I'm against a little deficit and a little debt, but what we've got now will literally destroy us in short order if it's not fixed. There are no 2 ways about it.

Nor does Dean's style of "fiscal conservatism" mean that there are no social programs. Quite the opposite. But Howard Dean believes that social justice must rest on a foundation of fiscal responsibility. He demonstrated that in VT, and pretty darned well I think. No, it wasn't easy getting VT to the point he got it too, but it was worth it.

He is IN FAVOR of a strong middle class, and he's in favor of changing NAFTA so that it helps build strong middle classes in other countries.

You may not like Howard Dean. But be sure you don't like him for the right reasons.

Eloriel

[dsc]

24. No you simply put don't know what you are talking about

Under Clinton, every economic grouping, including the bottom showed real economic growth. That is a fact. You are just out and out spewing a falsehood.

[bearfan454]

20. GD right !

I don't care who says what. Repukes = deficits. Dems = fiscal responsibility.

[Clete]

7. I thought the conservatives are in charge now.

Dean stands behind many of Clinton's economic policies, which did leave us with a surplus until Bushie squandered it away.

[JNelson6563]

9. this might help

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_economy

Personally I feel I am an "economic responsible" sort of person. I don't like debt and I don't like wasteful spending. I have a problem with the top 1% getting fabulous tax breaks while the poorest among us get none and I don't like corporate welfare.

Balance is key.

Julie

[friendofbenn]

10. how would you define wasteful spending?

?

[JNelson6563]

22. let me count the ways

how much government spending goes on that shouldn't? It's massive and it ain't on social services either. Sorry I am in no mood to write an essay on it though....


Julie

[poskonig]

11. I'm a little more liberal than Dean.

I don't believe deficit spending is necessarily harmful to an economy. However, Dean is doing the right thing with balanced budgets since the GOP is clearly using the tax cuts and the war to bankrupt social security and medicare.

[friendofbenn]

14. if you raised taxation for the rich......

for instance you could probably recover the deficit pretty sharpish. i cant see dean taking that step. i hear he isnt even sure about repealing bushes cut these days. if he isnt sure about that then there is something wrong. unless you agree with that kind of economics then your entitled to your opinion

[poskonig]

16. The House of Representatives raises taxes.

In the meantime, I want someone who is going to use that veto pen.

[friendofbenn]

17. sorry i didnt know that

why do you think he is unsure about the veto? is he electioneering? or is he going to govern in the interests of the rich?

[poskonig]

18. Dean has been a stickler about balanced budgets his entire life.

No, Dean is not going to govern in the interests of the rich. Do not expect rubber-stamping of GOP bills under Dean.

Plus Dean will have the bullypulpit, which will be way cool, since he'd actually use it.

[Eloriel]

23. You're not very well informed

And really, you ought to wait to hear from Dean on the subject of whether or not he changes his mind about rolling back ALL of Bush's tax cut.

"if you raised taxation for the rich......"
for instance you could probably recover the deficit pretty sharpish. i cant see dean taking that step.



I could see Dean taking that step. For one thing, he supports raising the FICA salary cut off from its current $86,000+ upper limit -- that's taxing the rich.

He often refers to "Clinton era taxation" in exchange for Clinton era prosperity. And Clinton definitely raised taxes on the rich.

Best not to try to second guess him, or assume what he will, won't, might do. Just wait for his own words.

Eloriel

[dsc]

25. again baldly false

He has said over, and over, and over, and over again that he would reverse the Bush cuts. That would raise, that means make higher, the top marginal rate (paid by rich people), reinstate the estate tax (paid largely by rich people), restore the tax on dividends (again paid largely by rich people). That is raising taxes on rich people.

[wtmusic]

13. To a Californian a guy like Dean looks pretty attractive right now

since we have $38 billion in red ink and public services are going to hell.

[dsc]

26. Please don't repeat the press' lies

you have an $8 billion deficit. Davis closed the rest of it.

[madfloridian]

27. Krugman covered that perfectly on Russert tonight...CNBC

If you can get the transcript, do, even if costs. Well worth it, the whole hour of Krugman. Russert was good tonight, and he let Krugman speak.

He spoke a lot of CA.

[wtmusic]

30. Caught the last 40 minutes

Thanks...what a great interview! Now I have to buy the book (I guess that's why they do it)

[wtmusic]

28. Have a link?

Davis may have 'closed' some of it in long-term loans--but those loans have to be paid back by my kids and theirs. If I wanted fiscal irresponsibility I would prop up Reagan and vote for him.

Every source I've seen, from both sides, estimates a $34-38 billion deficit.

[madfloridian]

29. Here is a good link to the Krugman article.

You may be able to find others. I just saw him on TV,and I thought this made sense.
http://www.pkarchive.org/column/082203.html

SNIP:...."When Mr. Schwarzenegger threw his biceps into the ring, he seemed to think that, like George W. Bush, he could adopt a what-me-worry approach to budget deficits. "The first thing that you have to do is not worry about should we cut the programs or raise the taxes and all those things," he told Fox News. Then someone must have explained to him that a governor, unlike a president, can't just decide that red ink isn't a problem. In fact, one reason Gray Davis is so unpopular is that, unlike the challengers, he has actually had to take painful steps to close the budget gap. Although news reports continue, inexplicably, to talk about a $38 billion deficit, the projected gap for next year is only $8 billion......"

ON EDIT: I have seen other sources, do a google on California deficit 2003, or something like that.