Everyone pondering leaving the Dem party...

[DireStrike]

Don't do it yet. Hold on a while.

Let all of us(those considering leaving) stick together. Let's try to build up a critical mass.

Most importantly, if a large mass of us DOES decide to leave, let's all do it together. On the same day. Think that would raise any eyebrows in the beltway? If we have several thousand people ready to ditch party at a moment's notice, it can provide a very effective tool for communicating our dissatisfaction, especially if it's right after the Dems screw something up.

[American Tragedy]

I agree.

If people gradually change their registration over the ensuing weeks, the DNC is very likely to either not notice it, or attribute it to something else, both of which would defeat the purpose of leaving.

[Az]

1. Um, many of us are already dissatisfied

And just how much do the Dems have to screw up before we act?

I am still here. But its mostly because I have not yet figured out what path to walk next. Once I decide what it should be I have no loyalty left to the Democratic party. Its leaders (not its members) have let me down too often. If I decide to stay it is because I discern that is the path that is most effective. If it is not I am done.

[DireStrike]

3. I am in the same boat.

Mostly though, I don't know what's going on. All I know for sure is that most Dem leaders don't represent me.

Did you ever watch the Weakest Link? You know how you can wait before "banking", to try to get a chain and get the most cash? Same effect here. We need to organize and communicate with each other so we have a voice.

[IStriker]

24. Me too. After all this time, energy and effort...

and having been "born" a Democrat, I may have to admit that the party no longer represents me and look for a new home.

[Neecy]

26. same here...

After being a Democrat all of my adult life, I'm seriously looking for alternatives.

It's amazing to me that with so many of us opposing this immoral war, opposing the dismantling of Roe v. Wade, opposing the destruction of social security et al there isn't a single 'leader' who represents us. I've never felt so disconnected from my government and from my party. If I do go, I'll consider that they left me, I didn't leave them. I'll still be fighting for what used to be 'our' values somewhere else.

[ChairOne]

2. ah screw it... - BYE! \eom

I don't want anyone on my team who doesn't wanna be there... Go play with Kobe or Artest or somethin...

[DireStrike]

4. eom means end of message

which means you stop talking.

[ChairOne]

6. Just tryin to ensure that every view is represented....

<innocently bats eyelashes>

lol

[Az]

5. Who's on your team?

The DLC? You got Joementum going on over there or something?

[ChairOne]

10. Certainly not you, I take it....

The Democratic party is my team - until their platform precludes my presence.

Running away to <pick your favorite hidey-hole> is to me nothing more than one taking one's ball and running home crying because one isn't getting one's way - juvenile both.

btw - great inference: I want to stay a Democrat, therefore I must be a fan of Lieberman.

FWIW, even the exalted Josh Marshall has expressed substantially the same feelings, albeit in a different context.

My take: The Democratic party has enough on its hands, trying to figure out what the hell to do about all those mean & idiotic bush voters, to worry much about a few fair-weathered friends. It'll make things a lil harder, perhaps, but at least we'll be able to count on who's left...

So yah - anyone who isn't satisfied with the Democratic platform, and Democratic values, the door's right over there. I welcome anyone who wants to fight for those values. Where it's understood that "fight" doesn't mean a knockout in the first 15 seconds.

[Az]

11. My loyalty is to my ideals

If the Democratic party no longer represents those ideals what am I to do? Go along for the ride and hope for table scraps? Are you saying you have no ideals or values of your own and only hold allegience to the party?

As to fighting. That would be nice. I don't see anyone fighting though. Not going to be a knockout if someone doesn't stand up and take a few jabs. 15 seconds or 15 years. Doesn't really matter.

Loyalty? You do know that the Democratic party used to be the bad guys. The Dems were the party of slavery. Things change. Parties change.

[DireStrike]

13. Words outta my mouth. -nt-

[ChairOne]

15. I didn't say word one about loyalty...

That's all you tiger, and you projecting, if you thought *I* had any truck with it.

It was clear in my post, to only a moderately discerning reader, that the platform is the reason why I'll continue to be a Democrat. So what's the point of challenging me on "ideals or values"?

It was also clear in my post, to the same moderately discerning reader, that I could easily conceive of leaving the party. Homework assignment for you: read what I actually said, and figure out what it would take for me.

You don't see anyone fighting? Do you have eyes? Yeeeaaarrrghh!! (I guess that's actually more relevant to the ears, but whatever.)

It's like Rick James/Chappelle all over again - my post disavowed everything you've just accused me of - lol

[Az]

16. Dude, just how many chips do you have on your shoulder

Your throwing around a lot of aggressive language. If you aren't prepared for people to get a bit miffed at you then maybe you oughta back down on the rhetoric.

Terms like fairweather friends certainly brings to mind questions of loyalty. Here's your homework assignment. Think about the stuff you say and the implications it carries. You have no freaking idea how long I have been with the Dem party or what leaving it means to me (if I even choose to leave it).

As to Dean he was abandoned by the entire party. He was left out to dry. Someone stood up to fight and the entire party scuttled away. Oh we don't do that around here. We are good little well behaved minority party members.

The platform only has meaning if the leaders stand behind it. As it stands right now its just words. With no actions a platform is nothing.

Those on the left that have been calling for a stand up fight have been shoved to the back of the bus. We have been told to keep quiet and as soon as we gain the ground back we can do some of the things in our platform again. But then they just keep sliding to the right.

Let me make this simple. If you do not champion the things you stand for then no one is going to follow you. The dems have become the least trustworthy politicians out there to the common people. They see them as the cliche politician that says one thing and does another. More peopel vote for Bush on this one issue than anything else. They may not agree with his positions but they trust him to do what he says (even if he pulls a fast one on them).

The job of a leader is to lead. The dems are producing followers currently. Wherever the polls lead thats where they follow. A leader gets out in front of the people and tells them whats going on. A leader changes minds. A leader champions ideas. We have nothing like that currently.

[ChairOne]

18. Apparently not enough to for you to read my posts accurately...

Dude. We'll see how this one goes, perhaps...

Whatever made you think I wasn't "prepared for people to get a bit miffed" at me?

Dean was an example. One example. A counterexample, in fact, to the notion that there isn't anyone fighting the good fight. There are a bunch of others, but given that you didn't see Dean fighting, it may be safe to assume you didn't see any of the others either. Some of their names are Kucinich, McKinney, Obama, the CBC, Byrd, and yes, even Kerry. There are many, many others, whether or not you can see them.
--
I've posted before about my disgust with those around here who want to move to the right - precisely on the grounds of idealism, in fact. It isn't obvious to me however, who's more hurtful to Democratic ideals: those who wanna move the platform to the right, or those who want to leave it altogether. (Probably the right-moving religion-panderers, but it's not totally clear in my head.)
--
You and I have radically different feelings about the Democratic platform. I think it's completely meaningful even if NO ONE stands behind it. A platform is a collection of ideas, a list of desiderata. In the case of the Democratic platform, a collection of very important ideas, and desirable desiderata. It's not hard to think of lots of great ideas that had to wait some time for a leader to run with them. Freedom, just to mention one of the more glamorous examples. It does suck, but that's the typical case, not the exceptional. (Have I made a 15 second knockout analogy lately?)
--
You (plural here) seem to be bugged out by the lack of good leaders in the party - and that's a completely fair thing to be bugged at. Then the situation is that you've got these wonderful Democratic ideals in one hand, and you've got a bunch of jackass leaders in the party. Those of you leaving the party, or considering leaving, are essentially saying "yah, those are pretty kewl ideals, but they're not good enough for me to stick around with these particular jackass people."

People who leave a set of ideals because of jackass-y people I call "fair-weather friends". They follow people, rather than ideas, and I have little use for them, as my party is a party of ideas - ideas about what America and Americans can be.
--
There are a variety of chips on my shoulder. One of them is the realization that so many people whom I had thought had ideals similar to mine are happy to throw them overboard because they don't like the people running the show. They're with us when MLK is there, and things are starting to work, or with Kennedy, or... But in the down years, when we don't have a Thoreau handy, and we can't pull a Ghandhi out of our hats, they don't want any part of us, and threaten to take their ball to the green party.

Fine. BYE.

I'm standing by the ideals.

[Az]

20. For many of us it has happened too many times

In relationships when someone betrays your trust but you keep going back and never learn a thing its called an abusive relationship. Its not standing by your friend. Its an illness. You either recognise that what you thought was your friend is not good for you and get out or you continue the cycle and get more abuse heaped on you.

There are many of us who have been shoved to the back and kept silent for far too long. Eventually you have to look at the situation and decide whether there is hope or if it is simply abuse. I have been through too many elections to fail to notice the pattern.

Even when we do manage to find someone with a spine lurking in the party the leadership of the party takes a giant sized squat on him and buries him. Dean showed some spine and rattled the leaders of the party. The previous election Liberman came to my town and told me I do not have freedom from religion.

The place I am at philosophically is either A) We burn the current leadership of the Dems to the ground and start again taking whatever losses we have to to save the party or B) Find a party that will pick up the fight.

I am not leaving the Democratic party. It seems to be leaving me and millions of other left thinking individuals. I have seen what the people driving this bus have done to the party while I sat in the back. I don't know where I am going next but I am not staying in the back of the stupid bus any longer.

[ChairOne]

21. I think A) is a perfectly fine idea - lol

Here's another:

http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v002/www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf

Notice that there's no contradiction in being down with both of them. Quite the opposite, in fact. imo

[SharonAnn]

29. Right, after all, the GOP settled for * just to get their ideals.

And it worked for them! They've certainly got their ideals.

[chicagiana]

7. I'm starting to believe Nader is right ...

If there is going to be a defection, it should be massive and immediate.

The Democratic Party is rotting from the head down. Why should one blame the body for abandoning it??

[NightTrain]

8. I haven't done it yet, and probably won't until the next election.

So the Democrats have another couple of years to get their shit together. If they don't grow some balls by 2006, then FUCK THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY FOR GOOD!!! :nuke:

[Az]

14. And then?

The Dems may need a farewell party. But just saying screw you to the party and then storming off into the distance does nothing to solve the problem and only feels good for a few moments.

I don't know if the Dems are part of the solution or part of the problem. As they are right now they are a corpse. They are quickly abandoning principles I hold near and dear. The path they are on now will simply draw them away from me. But then what?

[DemBones DemBones]

9. I'm not sure anything gets through to the morans "leading" the Dem

party these days. I do see some strategic value in a mass re-registration done as a gesture by dissatisfied Dems, but only "some" since I question whether the losers in charge would even notice.

[DireStrike]

12. The good part is...

We could still vote dem, if we really want to, even after switching parties.

Hell, my state doesn't have any say in the primaries so what do I care?

[flaminbats]

17. after ten years of being a proud Democrat, it kicks my ass..

I became a Democrat because I support universal healthcare, during the last four years Democrats have began to oppose this! I became a Democrat because I oppose taxcuts for the wealthy and older classes at the expense of the poorer and younger generations. Ironically growing numbers of Democrats have supported these taxcuts for the wealthy and powerful as a means of gaining stature in Washington since Bush became President!! Supporting the War in Iraq and backing more money on another useless Bureaucracy of Homeland Security is supposedly a testing of one's patriotism!

Either this makes Russ Feingold an American traitor or all the other Democrats into Rovian puppets.

[flaminbats]

19. what advice...

why take these bugs too seriously?:shrug:

[Lady Sonelle]

22. An Excellent Strategy

All leaving on one date. I suggest the date of the Inauguration. Great psychological leverage.

Back around 1976-77 a friend of Mine, Linda Miller, had just begun her job with Walt Disney a few months before and she was dismayed to find the company that had been so good for animators for so very long, was no longer listening to its talent. The loss of Walt Disney had ended the era when co-operation between labor and management had created a top flight studio. Now the nottom line was the driving point.

After working to exhqaustion on Pete's Dragon and another film I have forgotten, the Animation Department had had enough of being treated like unpaid flunkies and given almost no artistic input... Donald Bluth, a veteran Disney animator revolted and took about 3/4 of the department WITH him to form Don Bluth Studios The sheer IMPACT of all that talent just *walking* *OUT* sent seismic waves through the entire industry that are still being felt to this day!

Linda was a beginning animator, having just left the "in-betweener" scutwork phase of her career... when she left *Disney*, she left a LOT, took a huge chance, but she followed her common sense and her desire to see her craft prosper instead of becoming slave to the bottom line.

She is now one of the nation's premiere woman animation specialists, she is an award winning director and head of the department with many many films and TV series under her belt. Animation has changed and Disney has changed its tactics and its exploitative practises.

Democrats can do the same thing! If enough of us WALK... on the same date, the same time... we will send a shockwave through the party!

Leave the Democratic Party?! But they are the TOP political party1 Nobody has their clout!

Well, the same could be said of Walt Disney Studions and WED Enterprises! Don Bluth and his brave group PROVED that giants can be forced to listen! We can do the same thing.

Lady Sonelle

[B Calm]

23. Since our votes are not being counted there is no reason to vote anymore!

[twenty2strings]

25. fuck no!...

takeover. Hostile takeover.:grr:

[Allenberg]

27. ...

^
|
|

Proud Libertarian. (with a streak of Socialism, and yes, I know its quite contradictory) :)

[DireStrike]

33. Heh, yeah... If we can.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. I'll be leaving sometime before '06. A mass exodus would be nice.

It's time to move to an opposition party. For me the Greens.

[orpupilofnature57]

30. Words like PROGRESSIVE weaken the democratic party,Remember why?

Stop trying to convert the lost, make new ones from the vast amount of non-voting America not neo-cons.

[sherilocks]

31. I like the idea of a mass unregistration day

from the Democratic party. For me it will be the next business day after (if) they elect Roemer the head of the DNC. I'm getting my voter registration card out of my wallet and putting it in an envelope addressed to the Democratic National Committee. I'm preparing a LTTE. Both go out on that day and my registration gets changed that day as well.

[Pastiche423]

32. Too late

My departure from the Democratic Party finally arrived after my state's 2004 primary. It was not a hasty departure.

The push to initiate my leaving occurred prior to the '02 mid term. Still holding onto a thin ribbon of hope, on October 10 I sat at my computer all day and into the wee hours of the next morning.

That ribbon was cut into tiny pieces as I heard one Aye vote after another come from the mouths of Dems on the IWR. That's IT, I thought! After more than thirty years, it's time to go.

Yet, I found it enormously difficult to say my farewells. One more chance, I told myself. I would work myself ragged for the party. And I did. I formed a Meet Up in my community; then another in a town 30 miles away. I campaigned, organized fund raisers and candidate forums, gave out literature, etc.

But it was all for naught. The leaders of the Democratic Party I had worked so hard and so many years for, no longer hold the same beliefs and ethics nor advocate the causes I do. The divide now is too far to breach.

I will still work as an activist in my community and state, only no longer as a Democrat.