Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger...odds on to be next Pope. Better read about him

[BrklynLiberal]

Bush is just going to love this guy as Pope. I think he is another Rove protege..or vice versa!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A26491-2004Nov4?language=printer
extracts:
As head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Ratzinger has made several waves over the past year. Top among them was a letter he sent in August to Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick of Washington advising clergy that they must deny Communion to supporters of abortion rights who, he said, persist in cooperating in what he termed a "grave sin." The note also provided advice on how Catholic voters should proceed when faced with a choice that included a candidate who supported abortion rights. No names were mentioned, but several American bishops had spoken out against Sen. John F. Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate, for his views on abortion. In the end, the U.S. bishops decided to leave these decisions to individual prelates. The letter was leaked in Italy, and its publication created consternation in the Vatican, especially in the office of the secretary of state, which handles international affairs.
<snip>
In August, Ratzinger told the French newspaper Le Figaro that Turkey, a largely Muslim country, ought not be admitted to the European Union. "Europe is a cultural continent, not a geographical one. The roots that have formed it . . . are those of Christianity," he said. "Turkey, which is considered a secular country but is founded upon Islam, could instead attempt to bring a cultural continent together with some neighboring Arab countries."
<snip>
He has fought against trends in ecumenism that suggest that Catholicism is but one of many ways to salvation. On issues of sex , morality and ethics, he minces no words. He called homosexuality an "intrinsic moral evil." In recent years, he has taken on social and scientific trends that, he argued, attack the natural order. At a public debate in Rome recently, he likened cloning to "weapons of mass destruction."
<snip>
Ratzinger has also defended the Vatican from criticism. At the height of the scandal of priestly pedophilia in the United States, he blamed the uproar on a media conspiracy. "I am personally convinced," he told an interviewer, "that the constant presence in the press of the sins of Catholic priests, especially in the U.S., is a planned campaign."

[LostInAnomie]

1. I don't think there will ever be an American Pope.

I just don't see it.

Catholicism can't take too many more hardliners.

[Warpy]

8. Catholicism loves hardliners at the top

which is why they keep electing them to the papacy.

As for an American pope, who knows? They'd dearly love to see American women bullied out of using birth control, and may try to present a pope of the same nationality to try to accomplish that.

Then again, they're more likely to play it safe and pick another Italian conservative. Few manage to get into the hierarchy without being conservative, so they've a lot to choose from.

[JVS]

9. Ratzinger is a Bavarian conservative, so he's a safe enough choice

Of course, he's only 7 years younger than the current pope, so maybe they'd prefer a younger man

[LostInAnomie]

12. I should be more precise...

... I don't think American Catholicism can survive another hardliner as pope. They are already suffer from a desperate shortage of priests, and losing the younger parishioners to mega churches. Without a pope who is willing to make some reforms American Catholicism will have a hard time just sustaining itself.

[JVS]

14. It'll work out. Less priests, less parishoners, less parishes...

maybe they'll have to import priests from other contries, but there will still be plenty of people. The Episcopalians only have 2.5 million people in America and they survive.

[DemBones DemBones]

23. The archdiocese of Atlanta is doing well at recruiting new priests.

Some come from other countries but most are American. Over the past fifteen years, we've had 700-1,000 adult converts per year, every year, in addition to the continuing immigration of Catholics into the area, many from the U.S., many from countries in Central & South America, Asia, and Africa.

Sure, some people leave the Catholic Church, and some parishes close. But the closed parishes don't mean there are no longer Catholics in the area, only that they have moved to new neighborhoods. City churches in the downtown are of many big cities have suffered, just like stores in downtowns have closed. People still shop and go to church, they just don't do it in the same place they used to.

[gjb]

29. If Ratzinger is a member of Opus Dei you may be in for a surprise.

[MichiganVote]

2. Hello Opus Dei, goodby Vatican II. n/t

[LSparkle]

7. Scalia will put in a good word for him no doubt

[MichiganVote]

21. Probably get a Vatican appointment and apartment

[gjb]

30. I should have noticed you beat me to it.

[McKenzie]

3. WTF has religion ever done to advance the human cause?

Granted, some genuine Christians have campaigned to help the poor, the homeless and other unfortunates. More power too you but that doesn't need god to achieve the end result, just basic humanity. That doesn't diminish their efforts one iota but it does illustrate the redundancy of "god" as regards helping our fellow human beings. Good deeds do NOT require god as a precipitator (probably crap grammar)

A bunch of celibate men in frocks dictating to other people on morality? I don't think so. If these apologists want credibility they need to clean up their own doorsteps before they start moralising on our behaviour.

Once your faith is free from blame then you might be able to tell us secular people how we should behave. Until then shut your gobs.

edit: grammar...again...

[evil genius]

6. well, there was that little thing called the renaissance...

which lead to humanism, which lead to post modernism. But hey, who am I to stand in the way of some religion bashing.

[LostInAnomie]

11. Those would be divergent ideas from oppressive religion...

... based largely on the classical ideas of pre-christian, secular Rome and Greece.

[McKenzie]

13. I stand by my comments

How can men (where are the Catholic women in this argument?) who are celibate even begin to understand sexuality if they do not practice sex? Rhetoric perhaps but it does raise a fundamental (no pun) question. Here we have a bunch of celibates dictating to non-celibates...what are the qualifications/experiences of the non-celibates in a sexual context? Can they understand and if so on what practical basis? Imagination? Divine inspiration? In the absence of any practical experience on the part of the priesthood one has to ask those questions.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

16. The Renaissance succeeded despite the best efforts of religious groups....

...contemporary to those times. Religion was invariably against change of any kind, and at that point in time, the Renaissance represented change in its most radical form.

Please try to do a little homework before posting such nonsense.

[DemBones DemBones]

19. The Catholic Church commissioned an enormous amount of great art,

particularly great art of the Renaissance.

Most of the great buildings of the world have been built for religious reasons: the cathedrals of Europe, the pyramids of Egypt and Central/ South America, the great Buddhist temples throughout Asia, mosques in many lands.

Frequently, these buildings DO represent radical departures from the architecture of the past, just as Renaissance art departed from the International Gothic style.

Perhaps you should do a bit of homework yourself.

[LostInAnomie]

22. If it wouldn't have been for the oppression from the church...

... in the first place the advances of the Renaissance would have taken place much earlier. They set culture back for centuries, and if it hadn't have been for the emigration of people from the Byzantine Empire fleeing Muslim invaders and bringing all the secular classical ideas of Rome, and Greece it would have never taken place.

[DemBones DemBones]

24. Prove it. Talk is cheap and you'll have to convince me.

I'd say progress was set back more by the Black Death and other natural disasters. People were frightened by such events and felt they should return to the old ways. You see that in any civilization, no matter what the predominant religion is.

[LostInAnomie]

28. The Black Death is one of the main causes of the Renaissance...

... People learned that the Church and it's dogma could not protect them and were more receptive to opposing views as well as living for the moment. After the Black death land and opportunities were far more available than before and led to upward mobility that was unavailable before. This led progressive changes that diverged from the oppressive ways of the church.

The new freedom coupled with the new influx of immigrants, and trade with the middle east led to the renaissance, not church funding. The Popes that did fund artists didn't do it for religious purposes. They did it to aggrandize themselves.

[DemBones DemBones]

32. Sorry, I don't think the Renaissance would have gotten far without

the Church funding it. Of course they had secular reasons for much of what they did, no doubt about that, but religion was a part of it and a great majority of the art was commissioned for churches and was required to be religious art.

It's probably close to a draw, with the Church both pushing the Renaissance and pulling away from it.

[intheflow]

10. Actually, Pope John XXIII did some good.

Honetly, he was the human rights pope of all time. Here's some of his human rights writing. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_xxiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_j-xxiii_enc_29061959_ad-petri_en.html

You'll have to wade through some Catholic lingo and dogma, but there is some really good stuff in there, such as, "All the evils which poison men and nations and trouble so many hearts have a single cause and a single source: ignorance of the truth—and at times even more than ignorance, a contempt for truth and a reckless rejection of it."

Then, too, Henry David Thoreau, an American Transcendentalist, gave us the essay on Civil Disobedience, which would go on to inspire Ghandi and MLK. And of course MLK was a minster himself.

There are more, but you're probably not really all that interested.

[evil genius]

4. oh man, now you've opened the door on a really evil SOB

Ratzinger has been a pet peave of mine for decades.

the Office of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, known until 1835 as the Holy Inquisition, singlehandedly repressed 70% of the translated Dead Sea Scrolls since the fifties and Ratzinger had them declared inviolation of the "doctrin of the Faith" because they contain uncomfortable information. Like that the essenes referred to Paul as "Thw Wicked Preist", Jesus was married, etc.

[knight_of_the_star]

17. Great

So we're going to get the holy Inquisitor and the pope wrapped up in one package? Tell me when they start lighting the torches, when they do I'll have to be ready to answer with something more potent.

[JVS]

5. I don't see why anyone would be surprised with Ratzinger

Ratzinger as pope would represent a continuation of the historical conservatism of the Roman church. A tradition that was interrupted by John XXIII, but which is resurgent.

[Cha]

15. We can just call him

"rat" for short. Sounds like a real swarmy profiteer kinda pope!

[okasha]

31. Beat you to it

A number of priests of my acquaintance call him just that.

Okasha

[DemBones DemBones]

18. There's an old saying that the man who goes into the

Conclave a pope comes out a cardinal.

(For those not up on how a new pope is chosen, the Conclave of Cardinals votes to elect a pope, usually one of their members. The saying indicates that rarely does the frontrunner, the man who goes into the Conclave as pope, come out as pope. He usually comes out just as he went in, a cardinal.)

It will be interesting to see how the voting goes when John Paul II dies. But he's only 84 and was reported in good form at Wednesday's Mass; he could live ten years or more. His Parkinson's disease makes him look like he's in terrible shape but his organ systems may all be in good shape.

Anyway, the Church has survived many bad popes, as well as being blessed with many good ones. There's no need to worry about Cardinal Ratzinger.

[dflprincess]

20. His age may put him out of the running

I think there is a rule that once a cardinal gets to be 75 they cannot be considered for Pope.

[DemBones DemBones]

26. Cardinals can't vote for a new pope if they are 75 or older.

But I guess age doesn't disqualify anyone from the papacy or they wouldn't be talking about Ratzinger, unless it's all disinformation.

Still, 77 is a bit long in the tooth. After such a long papacy, I don't think they'll want to elect a guy who'll be dead in a year or two. They may not want the next pope to have as long a run as John Paul II has, but they don't want another John Paul I, either.

[rabbit2484]

25. He must be "From the glory of the Olives"

to fulfill the prophecy. According to St. Malachy at least.

http://www.catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp

[DemBones DemBones]

27. I don't think they grow olives in Germany.

VERY UNofficial prophecy, anyway.