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Rev. Pat Robertson: "Kwanzaa is an absolute fraud"

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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:21 AM
Original message
Rev. Pat Robertson: "Kwanzaa is an absolute fraud"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200412090004


Reverend Pat Robertson called Kwanzaa "an absolute fraud" during the news segment of Christian Broadcasting Network's The 700 Club December 6. After lamenting that "left wing educators, left-wing judges are stripping every vestige of our Christian heritage," Robertson, host and Christian Coalition of America founder, said: "Kwanzaa is an absolute fraud. You know, there was no festival in Africa called 'Kwanzaa.' I mean, it's made up by a bunch of hippie-types on the West Coast. I mean, it's not something that goes back to Africa. No way."

Kwanzaa is an African American holiday celebrated in African communities around the world. It was founded in 1966 by Maulana Karenga, professor and chair of the black studies department at California State University, Long Beach. The official Kwanzaa website notes that Karenga founded Kwanzaa as "an African American and Pan-African holiday" based on ancient African history and culture. Celebrated from December 26 through January 1, Kwanzaa is rooted in "the first harvest celebrations of Africa from which it takes its name." According to Karenga, "The name 'Kwanzaa' is derived from the phrase 'matunda ya kwanza' which means 'first fruits' in Swahili, a Pan-African language which is the most widely spoken African language." Karenga also notes that Kwanzaa "draws from the cultures of various African peoples, and is celebrated by millions of Africans throughout the world African community."
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what would a religious con man know about it anyway?
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cheezus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. Santa Claus, Frosty the snowman, xmas trees/lights, turkey dinner,
packages with shiny ribbons, candycanes, jingle bells, i could go on
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KlatooBNikto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I would like to add Pat Robertson, the Fraud of Frauds.A fraud
without whom a fraud wouldn't be a fraud.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. Right, every other holidy is made up
so what if Kwanzaa is too?
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Not Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. This is the height of arrogance...
who the hell gave him the authority to decide what and when people can celebrate.
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7th_Sephiroth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Robertson, host and Christian Coalition of America founder
the Christian Coalition of America is the american taliban, and the new KKK
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. Christmas is an absolute fraud
We should really be celebrating Saturnalia. Christmas is an effort to sanitize this very pagan festival.

There is absolutely no evidence Jesus Christ was born on December 25. None.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. If Joseph & Mary were off for census & to pay taxes, wouldn't that likely
to have been in the early fall, right after harvest, when the people had a bit of cash and not in early winter, when they would have had time to spend some of it?

I have to agree with ya. The evidence for Dec 25 just isn't there. There were some kick ass winter festivals for early Christians to compete with though.
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Streetdoc270 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
36. Actually we should celebrate the birth of Mithras.
http://www.witchvox.com/holidays/yule/ws_candc_festival...

Dies natalis solis invicti or Dies Natalis Invicti Solis was celebrated on December 25th, which in the Julian calendar was the Roman date for the Winter Solstice. Mithras offered salvation for His followers, He was virgin born to save humanity from evil, he died and was resurrected to become a messenger God between man and the God of Light, and his day of worshiped was Sunday, the day of the sun. Followers of Mithras were male, and typically soldiers, clerics, slaves and freeman. Mithras was once again, the sun that battled against the forces of chaos and disorder, the forces of darkness and despair, who brought the light, order and hope back every year at Winter Solstice.
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disillusioned1 Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. I got new for him - Christmas isn't legit either
Stolen from the pagan's Saturnalia.
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mpendragon Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. wikipedia for Christmas
wikipedia Christmas
I don't mean to be a dick by posting encyclopedia links. I always thought that part of what made liberals/progressives/democrats so great was that we were so well informed.

As for Christmas:
This was taken from several holidays. One of the date theories mentions Saturnalia (near or on the winter solstice) but there are others. Many of the customs come from pagan holidays.

Other traditional ways of celebrating included getting shit-faced drunk and having a riot but we don't do that much any more. Maybe Pat would like to enjoy a more traditional holiday.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Hi mpendragon!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. This, coming from a complete fraud
He doesn't believe in God, Jesus, or the teachings of the Bible. He believes in his own superiority and, above all, he believes in money.
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. I agree!
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donhakman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. pl
Is it odd
the God Fraud Squad
of Falwell Robertson and Graham
hate the Kwanza extravaganza.

No
I think they holler
about the loss of 20 cents
on the dollar
they'll miss at Christmas.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. Beware false prophets.
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits.

...

Thus you will know them by their fruits.

Matthew 7:15-20
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
9. Ohh, to be a fly on the wall... when Pat meets his "maker."
:eyes:
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. A fly on the wall will burst into flames when Pat meets his "maker"
I'm just sayin'
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. yeah.... better go for a flame-retardant "electronic transmitting " fly
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prairierose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
10. It's all about denigrating anything....
that doesn't fit his idea of christian hate hate hate

:nuke:

Me, I'm partial to winter solstice
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I think it's more a white/black thing...
in this particular case. I know a lot of white people who have an irrational hostility towards Kwanzaa.
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prodigal_green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. They haven't figured out yet
how to completely ruin it by exploiting it to within an inch of its life by commercializing it.

I wonder if he bitches about Veteren's Day or President's Day.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
35. And you have nailed it, my friend
Surely it can't be "legitimate" if one can't sell a lot of useless trash in order to celebrate
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
42. it's true...as if people are "forcing" them to practice it
or celebrate it any way. i think it's the idea of "independence" that still seems to bother some.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
11. Robertson is an absolute fraud
He has made a fortune by hammering away on "moral values" -- selective biblical principles taken mostly out of context -- but ignores pretty much everything else christ ever said.
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. What an idiot. eom
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
15. What'll he do when he finds out Christmas is an even bigger fraud?
:scared:
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Artemis Bunyon Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
16. "Christmas" has nothing to do with Christ. It's tree-worshipping Paganism.
Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it, Pat.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. May be wrong but
I always heard that Kwanzaa was not mean to be a religious holiday per se, but more of a HARVEST and/or ethnic celebration, closer to our American celebration of THANKSGIVING. Anybody, out there can correct me if I am wrong.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Yes, Kwanzaa is specifically NOT religious.
It was intended more as a cultural "supplement" for African-Americans of any religion--or none.

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enki23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
23. hate to break this to ya pat
Edited on Fri Dec-10-04 01:16 PM by enki23
but christmas is a fraud too. it's just an older fraud. jesus was some two-bit david koresh who got whacked when he fell on the wrong side of state power. you have no idea what fucking date he was born in, if he truly ever existed at all. your major god is an anachronistic shepherd's tale demiurge designed to scare children into obeying their parents. and you, pat, are a fucking tool, as is anyone moronic enough to believe your bullshit, or any bullshit in any way related to yours.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
37. YES!!!
I could not agree more
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
24. Christmas: A holiday for the owners of department stores...
Pat Robertson...finally showing his racist roots again after being shut up for awhile...all the while having some black gospel singers belting out songs and lavishing well-paid-for affection on him.

It's all about the money, folks.....
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GoldenOldie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Robertson claimed Mother Theresa was a fraud
Jesus threw the Pat Robertson's and the Jerry Falwell's out of the Temple for money changing. Imagine what's gonna happen to these guys and their ilk, if or when they get to meet big daddy???
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. Damned if you do, damned if you don't
Edited on Fri Dec-10-04 01:51 PM by DesertedRose
Aren't these the *same* people who keep complaining about the supposed "loss" of morals and positive family values in the black community?

Kwanzaa promotes just that, yet they rail against it.

I don't understand these people.
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
29. this coming from a man who lied about his service in Korea
the non-stop hypocrisy is breathtaking.

One wonders how he feels about Festivus

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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
30. I don't understand how he could speak in such a manner
about a holiday cherised by millions. Some Christian.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
33. If Pat Robertson doesn't like Kwanzaa, then he shouldn't observe it.
Edited on Fri Dec-10-04 06:23 PM by baldguy
After all, this is America. Isn't it?


isn't it?
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
34. Every day I long for the death of that grifting motherfucker
and I hope it's a VERY painful one
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
38. Pat Robertson: AWOL drunk who abandoned his command
The unctuous TV preacher Marion Pat Robertson once was a US Marine officer when he got the call that maybe his life was too important to risk on the battlefield.

The greasy turd was leading a platoon of US Marines to the fighting in Korea in 1951 when he decided to call his daddy, then a very, very conservative and Democratic Senator from Virginia, to get him pulled off his troop transport ASAFP.

Robertson told the other officers he would be saying Sayonara! when the ship pulled into Yokohama, its final stop before heading toward Korea. The other officers thought he was joking, but when the ship shoved off, there was Pat (and another 2nd lieutenant) on the dock, waving bye-bye.

Most of the officers and Marines went on to get wounded and killed. PTL, at least a couple remember the Truth.

The story was repeated in 1988 when Robertson ran for president as a Combat Veteran. The source of the story was Pete McCloskey (R-Calif.), one of the surviving USMC officers who was on the transport.

Here's a great resource on the subject:


THE LIQUOR OFFICER

Or PAT ROBERTSON GOES TO WAR


Excerpt...

Former GOP congressman Pete McCloskey of California, who served in the same unit as Robertson, claimed that Robertson had relied on his father's influence to get him out of combat duty. Robertson was so rankled by the charge that he sued McCloskey and Representative Andy Jacobs, an Indiana Democrat who also circulated the charges, for $35 million.

McCloskey insisted that Robertson was on a ship headed for combat until his father used his influence to have him removed. According to McCloskey, Robertson later boasted that he had used his father to "get him out of combat duty."

The libel suit turned out to be an embarrassment to Robertson. During depositions, Paul Brosman, Jr., a retired university professor who served with Robertson in Korea, backed up McCloskey's claim and went even further, asserting that the televangelist had consorted with prostitutes and had sexually harassed a Korean cleaning girl who worked in the barracks. Brosman's deposition asserted that Robertson once feared he had contracted gonorrhea from a prostitute and was "very relieved" when he discovered the problem was a urinary tract infection. Brosman added that he had never personally seen Robertson with a prostitute and said some of his remarks were based on "scuttlebutt" he heard from others.

The trial also established that Robertson's father did indeed send a number of letters about his son, on Senate stationery, to Marine officials. In one the elder Robertson expressed concern that his son had not been adequately trained to be a combat officer.

CONTINUED...

http://www.schlatter.org/liquor_officer.htm
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
39. Happy Kwanzaa Pat Robertson!
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Dob Bole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
40. Pat Robertson is an absolute fraud...
Where's that Bush landslide that God told him was going to happen? Is 51% and 55 million votes against you a "blowout election?"
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
41. um, pat: africans weren't "christians"
Edited on Fri Dec-10-04 07:04 PM by noiretblu
when they arrived here in chains :eyes: but "christians" made sure they didn't practice their native religions. so much for YOUR type of "christian" heritage, pat :hi: i've never heard real christians, especially black ones, complain about kwanzaa.
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