Torture is not a Christian Value

[realFedUp]

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/30/1525237

Tuesday, November 30th, 2004
Red Cross Finds Detainees Intentionally Tortured in Guantanamo as Lawyers in Germany Charge Rumsfeld, Tenet With War Crimes in Iraq

and other shames that are not true Christian values:

Re: What next?

The problem "progressive" Christians has is
not that we aren't following the Gospel...it's
that we don't have the messengers to
counter the divisive bullhorns
of Falwell, Robertson, Dobson et al.

Reframe and simplify the message:

Torture is not a Christian value,
Hating your neighbor is not a Christian value,
Supressing the truth is not a Christian value,
Polluting is not a Christian value,
Giving rights to some and not others is not a Christian value,
Adultery is not a Christian value,
Treating others as less than is not a Christian value...

I'm sure you can add others. Simplify the message
and find the messengers. Call out those who call
themselves Christians and ask if their "values"
match up with what Jesus taught. Christian leaders
really need to do this work...the rest of us need
the message to pass on. Jim Wallis has a good
Internet presence and exposure to those who are
not religious and Barry Lynn is the one the pundits
call on to show up during separation of church
and state arguments...otherwise, I'm not seeing
anyone else in the media counter what the religious
right is putting forth.

[realFedUp]

1. kick

[Doohickie]

2. BRING ME:

The comfy chair!

[realFedUp]

3. ?

well, at least it's a response....

[Doohickie]

4. Montey Python skit: "The Spanish Inquisition"

A bunch of medieval priests using ineffective torture devices such as "the comfy chair." I felt it was at least tangentally related to the topic.

If you've never heard of Montey Python, nevermind.

[PurityOfEssence]

6. Calling Cardinal Fang, calling Cardinal Fang...

n/t

[realFedUp]

7. Of course I've heard of Monty Python...just not a devout follower...

and haven't memorized the lines :-)

[PurityOfEssence]

5. Tell that to President Dorkemada

They ain't no comfy chair in THIS Spanish Inquisition.

god says whatever Georgie wants god to say, and that means extraordinary means against tear-wrists. Christianity, like most major religions, is splendidly malleable to suit the needs of its believers, especially when dealing with infidels.

[Doohickie]

9. Every time the subject of the conduct of U.S. troops comes up,

I think about the Nov 16 entry in Baghdad Burning, called "American Heroes...":

It's typical American technique- every single atrocity is lost and covered up by blaming a specific person and getting it over with. What people don't understand is that the whole military is infested with these psychopaths. In this last year we've seen murderers, torturers and xenophobes running around in tanks and guns. I don't care what does it: I don't care if it's the tension, the fear, the 'enemy'… it's murder. We are occupied by murderers. We're under the same pressure, as Iraqis, except that we weren't trained for this situation, and yet we're all expected to be benevolent and understanding and, above all, grateful.

I don't think that American soldiers are typically murderers, but I think the young woman has a point in that our troops should be better prepared to deal with the situations they are encountering. Just as Bush didn't plan for after the invasion, he didn't develop any kind of workable rules of engagement, nor train the troops for dealing with a "peacekeeping" mission, which is really what they should be doing now. I think the policies and rules of engagement being used just kind of evolved based on experience on the ground, and there is no coherent body actively monitoring these rules of engagement. Shit just happens. To a soldier on the ground, a wounded man moving may indicate a booby trap, but probably not. Just to be safe, all the wounded are treated as if they are booby-trapped, though. If they move, take 'em out.

The Brits are there as well, but they have experience in Northern Ireland and you don't hear about them committing acts like the U.S. troops do. Just because we're American doesn't make us automatically right. As the last remaining superpower, I think there is a special responsiblity assigned to the U.S., whether we like to admit it or not. Our conduct in Iraq does not live up to that responsibility.

[sangh0]

8. "That's not punishment, it's TORTURE"

is what I say