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Why are DLC/DNC avoiding the computer voting fraud potential?

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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 01:37 PM
Original message
Why are DLC/DNC avoiding the computer voting fraud potential?
This baffles me to no end.

Perhaps we should make a point to actively pursue this with them?
Has anyone done this? I have spoken to a couple of principle players at the DNC and they basically wanted to get away from the subject as soon as possible.

Seems to me if they actually cared about this elephant in the room of Democracy and fair elections, logic would seem to imply that they would be ALL OVER THIS DEAL. Logic would imply. Unless something is not logical here.

It also concerns me that the DLC is trying to influence votings away from Governor Dean, who I believe, as it seems most other Democrats see as our best candidate. They are pushing the ante for Democrats to vote for a more homogenized, right leaning Dem, like Joe Lieberman. Which ultimately means trouble for America and improving our current situation here, not to mention our international standing with other countries. Im not saying Lieberman is a bad guy, he obviously seems like a nice guy. WHAT HAVE NICE GUYS GOTTEN US LATELY?

And what right winged faction has Lieberman ever fully stood up to? Truly?

So back to the original question: why are DNC/DLC silent about this potential massive computer voting machin being a huge conflict of interest? Has anybody even heard them address what is the biggest problem facing the Democratic party and in the long run, ALL Americans?
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NewGuy Donating Member (305 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. The best explanation I have heard...
is that they believe that bush* will win in 04 and so are allowing any and all violations and problems to occur in the hope they can impeach, or at the very least, win in 2008.

I don't personally think it is much of a strategy, but it does explain a lot of otherwise dificult to understand things that are going on.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Maybe their bosses in Corporate America told them to lose this one?
They don't need to worry, they will get cushy lobbyist jobs.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Somebody's Gotta Be Keeping Score Over There
I hope your theory is correct. I guess we'll see after the primaries.
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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. They've found the backdoor themselves?
Maybe they are putting people in place as we speak to hit that back door and take every damn election in '04.

Hell if we start spreading this rumour to the freepers, maybe they'll do the work for us and start demanding an investigation!
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Clete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. Could they be part of it?
Sometimes you have to look in your own backyard to catch the thief whose stealing your stuff.
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terryg11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. to go one step further
why don't the candidates talk about this? If they truly want to be president after '04 then they should really be looking into Florida o f '00 and at what Bev Harris has been doing. If the voting system is that corrupt or potential to be then they should be yelling about this.
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preciousdove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. 2 cents
Edited on Thu Sep-04-03 01:53 PM by preciousdove
I just wrote a long answer that turned my stomach and erased it because the answer would do nothing to change things. I think we know why and what we have to do. Clean house locally, nationally and even our own party. Nadar was partially right but totally wrong in his methods.

edited for typos
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DEMActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Not "avoiding" - they are working AGAINST us
Actively.

Look, folks, those of us who have been involved in this issue since last winter have been assigned "DLC/DNC handlers" to slow us down. We've been told they would do proactive things (like drafting legislation) "after the stench of the flag issue leaves the capital" and other such things. We could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end, but we won't because it serves no purpose except to give them "conspiracy theory" stickers to smack us with.

The official Democratic party response to the Georgia situation last week was "Sonny Perdue is just conducting a partisan attack on Cathy Cox."

Calls to the DEM party in Georgia result in "call the Secretary of State" responses.

They simply don't care and are actively protecting their rising star Cathy Cox. She will be tarred and feathered with this debacle.

Now, please understand that we TRIED LIKE HELL to get Cathy Cox on board and in front of this months ago. We tried to warn her and used every political connection to do it - all the way to a very powerful ex-Speaker of the State house. We were rebuffed at every attempt. We were told to sit down and shut up by the Democrats.

They are NOT OUR ALLIES in this.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Thats a sad story. Surely there are some Democrats who are concerned?
n/t
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Perhaps it is better if this becomes a non-partisan issue
Bring in libertarian Republicans-- This is genuinely a bi-partisan problem; if the electoral system is in danger than America is in danger. It's as simple as that; and that should be clear to every American.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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DEMActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Libertarians and Greens are already on BOARD
and they have been for some time. The Georgia Greens have years dedicated to this issue already. Hugh Esco tried to stop this train before it happened in 2001. And he hasn't stopped yet.

The Georgia Libertarian party made the most recent Open Records Request, asking yet again for a copy of the Georgia Certification letter. They were answered with "we're not sure what you mean about a 'certification letter.'
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Judicial Watch?
they make strange bedfellows, but they've proven themselves to be effective in these sort of things.
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Clete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. True, it gets to the point where there is no need to
steal elections anymore, so the result is no elections, period.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Thats exactly what it is. A Non-Partisan issue at the core of Democracy
This effects everyone and those that think it doesnt are kidding themselves.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. Tin Foil Here
Because I think the only answer could be that there is a nonpartisan conspiracy going on. It is not the R's or the D's behind the name. Hell just yesterday that rep from florida, what's his name, has decided to switch over from Rep to Dem because of the % of dems in his district. He did say that his stance on issues would not change.
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. I don't think it's tinfoil to say that people have business plans
I see this conflict primarily in terms of greed (executing business plans) and fear (of those unwashed masses, and especially any brown people, getting power over anything.)

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DEMActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. Eric Alterman is asking the same question
Are Republicans planning to steal elections nationwide? Or only in Ohio? This voter-machine stuff is serious. Where are the majors on this? (Care of Sivacracy.net, which everybody should be reading by the way. Hey guys, can we give Siva a link? The Instamans link doesnt work anymore. And nobodys complained. How about that one.)

http://www.msnbc.com/news/752664.asp?cp1=1
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Thanks Dem!
n/t
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. Have there been any public statements about it?
Not that I'd agree with this position at all, but maybe they are convinced that there really isn't a problem?
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
20. Thanks for the info
Of course, unless there have been other threads on this this is kind of late dawning on DU itself so the slow Dem establishment is no mystery, and its unprofessionalism in the modern age was pretty much sealed in 2002.

Computer illiteracy: this is one area where delegation and consultants are insufficient. I am sure the aides who post here have horror stories simply trying to communicate the significance of the Net to their real world people people. Watching the Congress get up to speed on science is
like watching an adult ed class. Wow, you mean THAT could happen? Then they naturally resort to legislating by old habits after patting themselves on the back for learning stuff they can't work with.

Business bias: good will and tilt is probably more frustrasting when the "good guys" are blindsided by the bad stuff.

Disorganization. What "L" in DLC? How does the party get on board anything except the broadest and safest issues(and blunder magnificently there)and rarely hit it with the masses. Hodgepodge misgivings and HAVA proceeedings were steamrolled by the GOP with a clearer agenda.

As another poster said, there is a likely list of horrors reaching to more ominous levels, but it is the general dunderhead proclivity to being taken in by con artists that is making 95% of this even possible. (Powell- a credible hero, Iraq war- a necessary idea, 911- no one to blame). To see that enshrined in the major people's party where we cynically expected cunning from otherwise bright dedicated servants- well, that is discouraging.

Still, picking it apart on the local level is really tough. It seems that in states ruled by Repugs you are still deflected from stopping them. In states where the Dems have SOME voice the results are spotty, isolated and even resisted. The GOP has a fixed strategy. The Dems are going by the old system of ignoring it and swamping the system with new voters and turnout. The old system will likely lose. The new system has been taken over by the GOP and THEIR voting procedures. Blindness at the top level, blindness at the local. If this keeps up, Big Labor and the democrats and some other groups can meet in a coffee house. Maybe they will have someone on the drums and some angst ridden poetry readings.
for some real great speeches and discussions over espresso.
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