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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 03:39 AM
Original message
THIS IS IT
There is enough information in this thread

CyberNET Group CEO killed during standoff - continued discussion please
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

To know they did hack the vote, I am satisfied of seeing the truth and that is all I was looking for.

Thanks very much fellow DUers you have made the few years hanging around on this board more than worth it :kick:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 03:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. You rock nolabels
Thank you for welcoming me when I first registered here. I haven't shut my mouth ever since.




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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. We all rock
The glue that keeps us here, our beliefs is what makes us strong

This damn thought keep going trough my head, from a quote this lady does on her weekly radio show, about what the Budda says about truth.

(A paraphrase)

Those who fail to seek (or find) truth have failed the whole reason for their life.
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Exactly. Buddha and Jesus agree
only the truth can set you free.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. ... and so does George Carlin.
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Carlin is THE MAN
He might be bigger than Buddha. Well, not the belly. You know what I mean. :evilgrin:
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m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. many, many cross posts
All over the Internet.
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whirlygigspin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. OMG!
uh oh time
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. I hope so
I would say if you got anything you might want save that looks too good to loose, save it, burn it to CD in case your hard drive get knocked out somehow. I do

I will postulate they cannot shut down the net, most business have to have it now to run. The Chinese have a terrible time trying to control their part of it or any of their people on it. It's the great equalizer. A tool for real democracy.

I have seen too many web pages vanish to think otherwise. We collectively have to watch each others back, and so if that is part of the way we have to do it, I'm willing.

There is thousands or hundreds of thousands of different and expanding pieces of this all over so I would say everybody is safe, yet you never know when somebody will be an idiot.

The truth is getting more plain and out in the open everyday at the same time others try to be more secret. It's a strange world sometimes but this where we are I guess.
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
9. Could you please summarize it for me, then?
That other thread began with a massive "memory dump," and quickly degenerated into a flame war. I found it hard to get anything out of it.

As far as I can tell, here are the facts being presented:

1) The CEO of a company being investigated for fraud in its business dealings commits suicide.

2) The company in question hosted web sites, including two for arena-type facilities in Grand Rapids.

3) Those two facilities were named after the founders of Amway.

4) The founders of Amway are Bush supporters and religious-right nutcases.

Now, help me get from those facts to "proof" that "they did hack the vote."

As far as I can tell:

-- there is no proof that this company was involved in eVoting machines or any other election matters, and

-- there is no proof that the company had any greater tie to Amway or its founders than hosting websites for public facilities named after them, and

-- there's no proof that the CEO's suicide was linked to anything more than having been caught misusing funds acquired through a business loan.

What, if anything, am I missing?

:shrug:

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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I'm missing the same thing I guess
The company hosts websites, evidently some that have adult content. Plus a local Fox affiliate is covering the story, so Rove must be involved! :eyes:
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Me too
Yeah, how about a summary? What I gathered was some tenuous, rather round-about connections, but nothing that seems to be a smoking gun about anything. Where's the meat?
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. A lot of the information is in this link
CYBERNET INTERNET SERVICES INTERNATIONAL INC (0001070658)
http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/lofiversion/inde...

The meat is also in this link
"Bay Point Schools, Cal Tech, and the CyberNET connection."
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.c...

There are a couple of folks around trying to blow smoke, but you will know them by the lack of information they want to bring forth
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. A lot of GARBAGE is in that first link...
Another one of those posts of cyber-logorrhea, with lots of links to other articles that claim virtually nothing and prove even less. I was especially fond of one link to search results for "barton" and "watson" separately...which produced minutes of a city council meeting for a place called "Barton Springs," led by a "Mayor Watson" (which, of course, JasonATexan assumes is about Barton Watson, when it clearly is not).

And your second link goes straight to a post debunking the charges.

As far as I'm concerned, calling this a "tinfoil-hat" matter would be an insult to wearers of tinfoil hats.

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m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. it can be easily solved
Edited on Fri Nov-26-04 05:39 AM by m berst
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.c...

<snip>
The "Bay Point Schools, Cal Tech, and the CyberNET connection." thread is pure disinformation. I don't know if "auditors" is an overzealous true-believer, a conspiracy nut, or an agent provocatuer; but you believe his/her posts at the peril of your own credibility.

One of the deadliest traps set by an authority structure, such as a company or government, is disinformation. By that term, I mean the deliberate release of some true information mixed with some false information. Should it picked up, the power structure says, "Look! Lies!" and the gullible say, "Because the one part is false, all must be false! And because the person or organization that said this is wrong now, they must always be wrong!" Thus, no matter how true or carefully verified anything ever again said by that person or group about the power structure, it is dismissed out of hand.

The lesson to be learned is to not engage in _any_ speculation - believe only provable facts.
</snip>

And here is the history of this -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

on edit -

<snip>
I am writing to you because DU is under attack by a clever group of "freepers" perhaps, who continue to perpetuate a never-ending wild goosechase, based on the faulty claim that CyberNET Group (Grand Rapids, MI) is the same company as lots of other Cybernet-named companies. This claim, and many others, were introduced at BBV.org, and has spread to both here and CommonGroundCommonSense, with all sorts of false and misleading connections, links, statements as fact, etc. This entire effort is both polluting future threaded information from DU, as well as sending a lot of people on searches into the wild blue yonder - and I have no doubt it is a coordinated effort. I, myself, was duped at first.
</snip>
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Just a cursory taste of the debunk of the debunk
This little mom and pops company IT firm also has this about it's backing
(who does this sound like, really?)

Who we are

Cybernet Software Systems (CSS) Inc. is a complete IT solutions company, providing award-winning products and services to corporations worldwide. CSS world-class offshore services offer cutting-edge IT solutions across a range of industry and technology segments to Enterprises and Independent Software Vendors (ISVs).

An ability to innovate, a high level of technical expertise and a strong commitment to its customers give CSS its competitive edge in delivering complete end-to-end solutions that meet a variety of business and technology requirements.

What sets CSS apart is its successful track record in executing challenging engagements through superior engineering skills, proven tools & techniques and a highly process oriented approach. This, coupled with our philosophy of maintaining high levels of customer satisfaction has ensured that 100% of our customers give us excellent references.

CSS has built support systems and infrastructure capable of delivering 24x7 services through its OneWorld delivery model. We employ over 1,800 dedicated and highly skilled IT professionals, growing at 80% per annum. Our world-class infrastructure currently comprises 150,000 square feet spread across 10 locations.
(snip)
http://www.cybernetsoft.com/about/index.html
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. What does this have to do with CyberNET Group?
They're not the same company. They don't operate in the same locations. They don't do the same things.

So what's the story?
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. You must first consider what different types of I.T. services was........
cybernets was providing, there are varying degrees. At some points they had to seem legit, and might have been at one time. As the Tech bubble burst a few years ago and need money to keep his business going. This guy might of got mixed up with the wrong crowd or was dirty all along cannot be sure of any of that (yet).

There are reports he was a felon, and there are a couple court cases he is involved in (magnates to courts, criminals do subconsciously, smaller companies with real business avoid it like the plague). That part don't concern me, this rounded up number of 1,800 is a clue (Cybernets style). Exclusively this Cybernets name has always linked back to this caste of characters in one way or another, some legit some not.

Being partly legit is necessary for some things. I would surmise, that this guy that is dead, knew something and had the data to back it up, or was going to talk. In any rate his was a node that connected a few too many things. He was the link that needed to be broken for separation (after it became apparent of his implications).

If you go with what you can see and figure any info coming from official Gov sources to just be a black hole, it will make sense. Looking at what happened to him, so fast, how could you not question? It's like dang the guy is dead, he killed himself because he felt bad he committed fraud :shrug:
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. No, he killed himself because...
...he was about to lose everything he had and go to jail because he committed fraud, and got caught at it.

I have yet to be presented with one solid piece of evidence that there's any more to the story (aside from a lot of wishful thinking) than this.

It's like claiming that JFK was assassinated in revenge for his father Joe Kennedy being secretly behind the Lindbergh kidnapping.

:crazy:
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