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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:29 PM
Original message
Tinfoil Hats on - Come with me
Edited on Thu Nov-25-04 01:35 PM by Must_B_Free
on a journey of conspiratorial wondering.

What if:

- the soviet union - aka "evil empire" never really was completely dismantled, but the power players waited in the lurches to reform.

- Iraq is only tangentially about far right Israels desires, only partly about Halliburtons desires and more about getting the bacon before Russia does.

- Osama is still an agent of the CIA following script in a grand drama to deliver the oil to the US and keep it from his enemies, Russia. He sure did seem to pop up on cue, just when he was needed.

Something tells me that the US-USSR thing never really ended like they said, it just went off the radar for a while to put on different masks for a comeback...

So now we have Ukraine and a bunch of fucked up shit in the US that is being overlooked in the interest of gearing up for this real battle of superpowers.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not necessarily so "Tin foil" really....
although I've thought of other reasons and scenarios, I've had a feeling that something bigger is at play that isn't obvious...
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. let me know when you get to the tinfoil hat part
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. LOL! Nice one
:toast:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. The oil
"more about getting the bacon before Russia does."

Russia, France, China, whoever,... yeah. I thought everybody knew that.

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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. As in Peak Oil
And if you don't know where to look for info about peak oil it's Mike Ruppert's website www.from the wilderness.com
and as for how it fits in to hacking the vote try:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BAK411A.html

And
Happy Holiday!

Wiley
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ilovenicepeople Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. The "tin foil hat" to me signifies true reality,your scenario's hat worthy
:tinfoilhat: Can we get our own Tinfoil Forum? :tinfoilhat: ?
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toymachines Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. very tinfoily
interesting idea, but do you really think the soviet state could/would reemerge? Russia is surely a fishy place, but i dont think communism would make a come back. But i love a good conspiracy theory.
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Nordic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. it's not about communism, it's about raw power
Do you think people like Putin and Bush actually have an "idealogy"? No, they're all about power. They don't give a shit about idealogy, whatever works is all they care about.
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m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. so many miss that point, Nordic
All of this talk about ideology - it is just a distraction, a circus side show. What ideologies? It is all about power, as you say. I don't detect any ideology in the Bush administration and its supporters. There is hardly any coherent ideology in the Democratic party - just a hodge podge of positions on issues that aren't held together very well by anything. Behind the "correct" position on the issue of racism, for example, there is very little discussion or understanding beyond "yea" or "nay" on affirmative action.

"Communism" and "socialism" and "liberal" are just red herrings to get people to support reactionary and oppressive policies. "Conservative" is just a nice sounding word to cover racism and reactionary and totalitarian ideas and policies. People talk about ideology - are we moderate, are we far left, are we conservative - as determined by a superficial analysis of the positions we take on various contemporary issues with no historical context or defining and organizing ideological principles.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. Who knows?
Somewhere out there a tin foil hat has hit on the truth. This can go on forever.


National interests need an enemy somewhere to validate arms spending.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yeah sure. Powerful people with wildly different passions...
always work in lockstep. And the USSR will always be a great plot device for your crappy Hollywood masturbations.

Geezus! Just stop using the word "they" except when you are refering to a group of people that you, personally, can list by first and last name, and you might be ok.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. One over-riding passion: power
And what's this demand about the use of the word "they"?

Don't for instance both republicans and democrats refer to one another as "they", even though they can not personally list them by first and last name.
This use of the word "they" is quite common, there's no reason not to use it when theorizing about the powers behind the scenes.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. There's a very good reason not to use it
It lowers your IQ and sucks away the ability to reason. I'm not saying "they" is always used so vaguely and loosely and lazily as to be meaningless, I'm saying that it almost always is. B-)
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johnhorne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. to carry on the trip down conspiracy lane ...
I remember about a year ago Putin gave a press conference & he was asked about Russia's assistance in the war in Afghanistan & he said:

"I have never said this in public, I'm going to do it today. When counterterrorist operation began in Afghanistan, we were approached by people, through several channels, we were approached by people who intended to fight against Americans in Afghanistan. And if by that time President Bush and I had not formed appropriate relationship, as we have, so no one knows what turn would the developments in Afghanistan had taken. You know what was Russia's position, and it helped, to a great extent, to achieve further results that we have achieved in Afghanistan, and was for a very good purpose. "

http://www.ransac.org/Official%20Documents/Russian%20Go...

(just something else to add to the peace pipe!)
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oldtime dfl_er Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. My personal tin foil theory
is that Mikhail Gorbachev was CIA all his life. Pass the Reynolds Wrap!
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. I've heard that one before.
Those who survived the cold war were very deep indeed.
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. well part of it is surely true
iraq and the whole middle east is surely about getting hold of the pig to control the worlds bacon. there was never any plan to do anything but take it over and establish our dominance over the ME and Israel is our right hand man.

whether or not the soviet union is as strong or dismantled, they _are_ still strong and a player along with china and india and the EU in the competition for resources. so we are left with choices : the old way, oil, limited resources and war to control them (the neocon bush retrograde way) or what would have been a new way (where gore was going) developing alternatatives and evolving our way past the crisis and back into the major technological leader in the world. this is the path to social, economic and ecological ressurection.

the great game has never ended for those who are not evolved enough to see past it.
when bushco started rigging our elections they tore from us the promise of the future we could have tried to build in peace and cooperation and replaced it with hate, greed and war.


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Indiana_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. I've read posts in other forums from Russians and other Eastern bloc
people and they keep saying they never dismantled completely, that they never really completely collapsed. It was just economically that they collapsed. They say they are and have always been going strong except economically. I remember them saying it was not a total collapse as many Americans would be made to believe.
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Nordic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. You can bet there are soviet versions of Rumsfeld and Cheney
who are just itching for power and empire. Just think of all the cold-war hawks we have over here. My Dad is one of them. They're still alive, they're still powerful, they still call a hell of a lot of shots.

I've always known there was something extremely fishy with Russia/Iraq/us connections since Bushie got in.

Remember that trip that George Sr. took to Russia where he hung out with Putin for several days at some remote place, all friendly, they said it was a social visit?

Yeah right. They were up to something, and only they will ever know what it is.

Russia could be setting up a grab of the Ukraine, trying to get back some of its empire before the worst part of "peak oil" kicks in. They need the Ukraine to grow food, it's a major agricultural area.

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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. woot im with ya baby!
excellent post! ty =)
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. If the rivalry had ended the missiles would have been detargeted...
the have not, we still target Russia and they still target the US.

I think that it is very clear that the grand chessboard
type thinking that dominates now involves gaining leverage
over Russia, China and Europe via oil and oil shipping routes.

The Wolfowitz doctrine is very clear that we must prevent
any rival power from emerging. Russia, China, and Europe
are all on our list of future rivals.

Who know what Osama is? He could be a independent tactical
genius ala Imperial Hubris or a cutout bogey it is above
my pay grade to know for sure. I do think it best to hold
both possible in order to understand what happens next.





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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. Officially U.S. and Russia both target the Ocean.
If they wanted to both sides could re target anyone they choose.

I think we may be surprised at the various war plans. Allies be dammed.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. But, but, but...
Edited on Thu Nov-25-04 03:05 PM by SpiralHawk
What about that epochal moment when Bush gazed into Pooty Poot's eyes, and made contact with his soul?

Surely the exquisite spiritual purity of this moment must still stir hearts of the Faithful Bougoise across the fruited plains, and chill Evil Doers to the marrow?

Can we not draw all hope and courage for the Beloved Homeland and our Fearless Selectee from remembering and celebrating this moment of spiritual fusion ?

I denounce all who object to my telling of the Absolute Truth. Newly appointed Judicial Jefe Alberto Gonzales will be very interested to hear about you.

Homeland, Homeland, Uber Alles !
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kittykitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. kick!
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
23. Vintage Tin Foil Hat Stuff
Many of us here are novice tin foil hatters who have only been at it since the election.
To better frame this discourse and bring it into perspective I offer this link (http://www.hermes-press.com/Voting/vote_rig.htm ) by the late Dr. Norman Livergood concerning the danger of electronic manipulation of voting.
Dr. Livergood had been at this stuff so long that he died with gold brocade on his tin foil hat and golden tin foil epaulets on his shoulders.

This link has expired. If you just try to go directly to it you will only get 404 page not found.
You must first go to www.archive.org and then paste in the link.

This is a REALLY GOOD read!

Wiley
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Nordic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. kinda lays it all out there, doesn't it?
It's unbelievable to me that Americans have let this happen, and the Democratic party has let this happen.

We have no one to blame but everybody in power in the entire fucking country for letting this happen.

WE need to purge them all out. All of them. Start over.
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BlueOhio Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
25. TinFoil Hat ON
All those russian dating services, are really KGB fronts to get spys into the US.

:evilgrin:
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Lol.. Russian Brides, Sleeper agents
Make a good movie...
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
29. Here's my scariest tinfoil
What if the fervor with which BushCo have gained and maintained power is about covering up stuff that happened a long time ago, back when Poppy had power, not only as Preznit or VP but even CIA or earlier ...

Or what if it's about a continuation of an even longer plan that goes back even further. You know Prescott, and his dealings with the Nazis? A lot of those Nazis went underground after WWII, in South American countries -- Paraguay, Argentina, etc...

Who knows what they did then, what connections remained with the Bush family, whether there was a plan formulated for a fourth reich that we're seeing come to fruition right now.

As tinfoil goes, this is a tinfoil idea that makes my skin crawl. It's all like telling ghost stories... kind of scary in the same way. I'm just sayin'.

:tinfoilhat: :scared: :tinfoilhat:
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Poppy to this day likes to "go fishing" in various South American "resorts
Indeed that plane the other day that crashed on its way to pick up dear old Poppy .... it was supposed to ferry the old gent on down to South America.

And funny, ainnit, when Poppy goes fishin' down there ..... people turn up dead and governments turn up "couped".

Iyaint allegin' nuttin' ...... I'm just sayin' .......

:tinfoilhat: :shrug: :tinfoilhat:
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Akshully ... azzi recall ........ wasn't ol' Poppy in a nearby country ...
..... just ...... uh .... fishin' ... yeah, dat's it ..... fishin' ... when Venezuala had their little altercation between the elected prez ... wuttizname? ..... and them generals?

Again .... Iyaint allegin' nuttin' ...... I'm jus' sayin' .........

:tinfoilhat: :shrug: :tinfoilhat:
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. And wasn't there an odd little "fishing" trip in 2000
Undoubtedly, the family name will continue to open doors internationally if George W. is elected. Last November, an airplane with Houston registry numbers landed in Buenos Aires; on board was former President Bush, who had arrived to spend the night with his friend, President Menem, 10 days before the end of Menem's final term. The two men attended a dinner at the home of Argentine banker Jos Rohm, where they were joined by the vice president of Chase Manhattan Bank, the director of Credit Suisse First Boston, the president-elect of Argentina and the former president of Uruguay.

What was the purpose of President Bush's visit? "Fishing," says Michael Dannenhauer, a Bush spokesman. But when the Buenos Aires daily, Pagina 12, asked several of the dinner guests why the president was in town, they smiled and quietly replied, "Business." Bush's "real interest," they added, was to learn how the new government would deal with CEI, an Argentine media company whose former chief had fled the country under investigation for fraud. One of CEI's principal investors, the paper noted, is Tom Hicks, "one of the funders of the presidential campaign of Bush's son, George, the governor of Texas."


http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2000/03/argenti...

Bunch of Prescott's pals and their offspring coulda been in the area. As well as some fish. So I'm just sayin'.

:tinfoilhat: :crazy: :tinfoilhat:
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Lotta trout in South America ........
Once again, I'm jus' sayin' ..........

:tinfoilhat: :crazy: :tinfoilhat:
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Lotta fishy connections
which could be why Chimpus Khan is 'floundering' with Iraq right now.


http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_acti...

Maybe they just stopped bein' Nazis all of a sudden, at some point. Sure seems like they got the playbook, though. Just sayin'.

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:


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Nordic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. don't forget Poppy's "friendly" visit with Putin in 2002
they hung out for quite some time, in the country, "just friends". Yeah, right.

Anybody remember that? I remember photos, and tried to find them via google, but couldn't. Can't figure out how to weed through the mess.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. You forgot Poland.
;-)
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Kickin' it for Poland.
:kick:

There were some weird questions there, too (SAC).

Who's thinking Dick Cheney will be replaced in the next four years by a new Chosen Insider?

Why are there so many "Insiders" in the Bush* cabinet?

Inside what? :tinfoilhat:

Just sayin'.
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