Who died and made Kerry boss?

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

I am a bit confused. Kerry is the Jr Senator from Mass. Now he's sending letters asking for support on his behalf instead of with the party and senate caucus, and pushing for a fellow milqtoast dem (Iowa gov) to be head of the DNC instead of Dean.

Kerry lost! He should do what Bob Dole did in 1996, make way for new blood. Keep his senate seat, but leadership of the party and the message go into new, fresh hands.

Instead it looks like we are retreading the same old moderate, safe, worn out party.

[rndmprsn]

1. Umm no...

kerry is not going away...like gore or dole did, he is not either man...thank God.

instead he is going to use his national name and political capital to fight the good fight and take this admin to task.

bless him for it...i havent felt this good since before the election.

peace

[aprillcm]

4. Yup

I am so glad he is not going into hiding or rolling over for the Republicans, we can and should empower Kerry now, we need him and in order to be strong he needs us. So stop with the sour grapes already!

[r3verberate]

13. Gore

Why doesn't Gore run for a Senate seat somewhere, or even Congress?

[rndmprsn]

17. i think he should too nt

[leeroysphitz]

54. believe it when I see it. n/t

[JudyM]

58. So... * isn't the only one who came away from the election w/political

capital? Shocking.

[DeepGreen]

2. OK but,,,

who else is out there leading right now,,, seems like the rest of the elected dems have run for cover. Hopefully his enthusiasm will bring out some courage in others.

[Career Prole]

3. When the election's over, perhaps.

However, this election is decidedly not over yet.

[BeatleBoot]

5. What Can We Say To Make You Feel Better?

What would you like to hear?

:smoke:

[Rowdyboy]

6. For Christ's sake, Tom Vilsack is not the anti-Christ!

He's not my personal choice for DNC head, but PUHLEEZE! Give the guy a break. He is not Satan. His main liability here, apparently, is that he is not Howard Dean.

[Eric J in MN]

8. What woudl Vilsack do differently than Terry McAuliffe? (nt)

nt

[Rowdyboy]

20. I know that many here vilify Terry McAuliff...I refuse to join them

The Democratic party has a state of the art national headquarters that at LEAST puts us even with the Republicans. John Kerry, with the strong support of the Democratic party (McAuliff) was MIRACULOUSLY able to raise enough money to run a damn close race against the wealthiest interests in the world.

Terry McAuliff is no hero of mine. But he has done an excellent job of organizing, delegating and fund raising. We could do far worse.

[Eric J in MN]

23. I don't dislike Terry McAuliffe, it's just that Democrats lost

in the presidential race, and lost seats in the Senate and House, and so I'd like for someone who would bring a different perspective to the job.

Howard Dean is my first choice, and I wouldn't mind Simon Rosenberg.

[mdmc]

41. God bless your optimism

All I'm sayin' was that in 2004 there were two people that boiled up the blood of America - * and Howard Dean. * won.

Edwards and Kerry didn't create much of a flash. Sure, they won the nomination. That is now viewed as a small accomplishment.

I like Kerry. I have nothing against Aw, shucks, Edwards. But they ran a crappy campaign, and should step aside.

[Eric J in MN]

7. I agree that people shouldn't vote for Tom Vilsack just

because Kerry asks them to.

Howard Dean would bring to the DNC Chair a pssion for the grassroots.

Simon Rosenberg would bring to the DNC Chair a pssion for Hispanic outreach.

What would Tom Vilsack bring?

[rndmprsn]

10. agreed there...

howeard dean would make a fine DNC chair person...and if i could vote on it...he would surely get my vote.

on another note...i wish kerry had been made the senate minority leader...he already has national cred and stature, he would take this admin to task and lead the fight against its extremist and immoral foreign and domestic policies...and kerry is from a safe blue state so no more daschel like pandering to the repubs out of fear at the voting booth.

[Eric J in MN]

12. A month fron now, there might be a campaign to contact

the people who vote and make our views known.

[Astrochimp]

32. Kerry is high profile now- a very good.....

thing to have on our side. Hell, almost(?) 1/2 of the country voted for him. He can get press that others can not. He must keep his name in the news now, before he fades (think about the limited press Gore got in '04).


As for Dean, I and many others do not think much of him, but for the Dean supporters, you have to think he can do much more if he is NOT the head of the DNC. Representing a 'mainstream' group, you must keep up the same old, same old, at least to a point. There is no way he could become chair and make the drastic changes effectively and quickly (we got a year). Also as he is well known, he is easy for the re-thugs to hate, and joke about. How many times to you want to see "the scream" ?

But, as Dean, not the DNC Chair, he can keep up the work he did, and advise/ help the DNC. Not underground, but a second front, working for the good of all.

You must think "big picture"!

David

[Erika]

9. Kerry Is Anything But WornOut

He will present a bill the first day of Congress demanding health care coverage for kids. Kerry is new and fresh in his approach. He's got guts.

[WMliberal]

11. no one died. we just voted him leader of our party during the primaries

did you miss that part? or are you another bitter Deaniac

[Blue Wally]

31. Most recent presidential candidate (even in a loss)

Is usually considered to be the "titular head" of the party unless he lost so embarrassingly (McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis) that the party faithful want him gone.

[mdmc]

42. I'm bitter. and a Deaniac.

but I'm not a bitter Deaniac.
Dean would have lost as well. But we would have stood for something.

[Old and In the Way]

14. I'm glad Kerry's taking a high profile in COngress...we could use more of

them. I look at him as our President in exile. If we had a fair election, I think he'd have won going away. I haven't given up on Kerry. If the recount fails, I hope he makes George's life miserable for the next 4 years.

[Lindsay]

15. ALL of us need to make George's life miserable.

That's one of the things I like about Kerry's approach...asking for the peoples' support. We're one helluva big "focus group," thank you very much.

And I know my Repug Senators and Rep are not gonna be paying me any attention, so it's good to know somebody in Congress is.

[rndmprsn]

18. great shirt idea...

John Kerry - President in Exile

i like it =]

[welshTerrier2]

16. we need fighters ...

if Kerry wants to take the fight to the republicans, we should support his efforts ... if others join with him, we should support them as well ...

i really don't see the point of saying "well, he lost so he should go crawl in a hole somewhere" ... it doesn't make any sense ...

he's risen to a level of national prominence ... why should a strong democratic voice choose a weaker path ??

[Dr Ron]

19. Is starting over with a new candidate always the best idea?

Traditionally the Democrats have virtually ostracized losing candidates. I'm not sure that's the best idea. It would be one thing if he lost by McGovern amounts, but this was close.

Take away post 9/11 parnaoia, the advantages of incumbency, the wartime mentality, or the dishonest attack campaign, and Kerry would have won.

In Europe it is common for opposition leaders to lead the opposition until they win. (Of course the analogy isn't totally the same, but the principle still applies).

Sticking with the same leader would make it harder for the Republicans to define the Democratic candidate, as they usually do. Now Kerry has the opportunity to redefine himself by being a major player in the Senate for four years. Come up with a new candidate, and the Democrats will define him.

Kerry did make mistakes while running, but someone else doing this for the first time would also make mistakes. Someone doing it for the second time might benefit from that experience.

[carpetbagger]

50. That's a decision for 2007-8. For now we have Kerry.

"New blood" won't be able to push our agenda. We suffered terribly not having national voices from January 2001 until late 2003.

There will be a time to choose new leadership, or give Kerry a chance to lead again. But for now, we don't have the option. John Kerry and John Edwards are the people who command media attention, and I'm glad they're still in the fight. They're already doing a better job than the old Gore/Biden/Daschle/Gephardt/Lieberman set did, and God help us if John McCain once again becomes our party's main spokesman as he did during parts of 2002.

[RBHam]

21. The Obsidian Order ...

[private_ryan]

22. I agree

we don't need losers. He knew or should've known what he was up against. Instead of fighting back and educating the people he choose the "positive campaign" route. It worked great...for Bush. I'm surprised people were smart enough to make this only a 3% election.

[Okieprogie]

24. Kerry should go away

He is a loser. We made the same mistake that the Repugs did in '96. Our hatred of the incumbent led us to choose the "safest" candidate (read: a boring Senator who has been on every side of every issue) because we were so sure we could beat the incumbent. The result was that we got a candidate that couldn't lead, because he doesn't beleive in anything except his own self importance. The future of the party was heard in the primaries, and Kerry should step out of the way.

[Bridget Burke]

25. Nope, he won't go away.

He's still a Senator. And I'm glad for any Democrat to speak out.

Welcome to DU, by the way...

[Okieprogie]

28. right...

Didn't mean that he should resign as Senator, but the simple fact of the matter is that right or wrong, nobody likes a loser. It's time for fresh blood. Thanks for the welcome. I have lurked for a long time - wanted to post after the election but new registrations were banned for a while.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Okieprogie]

30. ????

What are you for? Kerry running again? Is that really a good idea if we want to win? Let's face it: The repugs got their voters out in record #'s because their base beleived in their leadership. How many people here were really that fired up about Kerry? I was fired up for the election, but not because I thought John Kerry was the best hope for our future.

[DS1]

39. You gotta admit

Kerry could never get to the point, and even put me to sleep - and I wanted to hear what he had to say. But he didn't say much.

[greenbriar]

37. and you know this how

I am sorry, anyone who wasn't here during the election does not have any saying power in my mind

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue Wally]

33. You certainly add intellect to the discussion

We have just lost the election. Despite the ABB fervor, the poor economy, and the Iraq quagmire, John Kerry was unable to pull off a victory over a very weak Republican president. Now we need to go forward with an open discussion and brainstorming as to why we lost and what we need to do to win in the future. If John Kerry was too "wooden" a candidate or if the campaign was poorly run ("reporting for duty") we need to say it and discuss it.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

34. can you say "Diebold or ES&S"?...

"Bay Point Schools, Cal Tech, and the CyberNET connection."
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&omm=0&om=56&forum=DCForumID4122


I think its time the public see this.

Interestingly enough, Dr. Piotr Blass is not only significant and real, he has alot of resume background in Michigan state, and otherwise, is connected to a very interesting corporation known as CyberNET Venturs Inc.(which manages all of Cybernets divisions...)

In the allegations report, a certain vendor described that such a network company was financing the operation through Mel Sembler and a few other bad eggs connected to the head of the game map. Another company was described as giving source to certain code.....Turns out CyberN is indeed an open source code distributor to several organizations, ultimately not even limited to voting companies. Also turns out an employee named Guitterez works(or had worked) there and created actual databases for elections across the USA and easily the globe, that are certainly not MS Access.

http://engrm.com/personnel/gutierrez-alan/experiential.html

Also interestingly enough, the state and F.B.I just barely seized CyberNET Ventures Inc capital in Michigan state for all of its computer systems. Every single last one, in one large effort, and refused to state why they had them seized and impounded.

More interesting though, is the fact that if you look and sniff around it appears CyberNET (who is also, direct finance of the white house and ambassador) had its systems freely distributed among universities...Schools, teaching sites, and so on everywhere. And more interestingly also worldwide.

But the most interesting part of all, is CyberNET's own interest in Diebold, and helping them out of some dirty circumstances....

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:mk1BGFoCVrkJ:www.eff.org/legal/ISP_liability/OPG_v_Diebold/20040930_Diebold_SJ_Order.pdf+CyberNET+Ventures+Inc.+has+contract+with+Diebold&hl=en&start=1

And of course on top of all this, ChoicePoint government who controls voting name rosters, being issued by Jeb Bush to directly not only take off the felon purge lists, but keep them as well. Authorities issued repeated orders for him to turn it off and instead he saved all the names to some hard drive and area around there in order to use them all again later.

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,65377,00.html?tw=rss.TOP

What I'm seeing here, is clearly one of the ugliest watergate level scandals there ever was, and then of course the media has no idea of anything. So what can we do about it?

Here is what: We need an astute group of search experts, to find any, and every single tie the one and only CyberNET Ventures has with this issue because it leads straight to the top and back to the whitehouse. So far much information seems to be missing (blank pages) so experts who have background in information management, do your part! Search all the archives and find any and all reports and links of these companies together, linkes to ChoicePoint, links between each party and so on and get this rotton egg hard broiled!

Of course the vote totals were flipped: Using obvious malicious code of rigged names across the board, some that possibly don't even exist (see: evicted felon/citizen roster) and even adoptions for all anyone knows. And the way to make this come full force as the biggest dump ever seen is do an information sweep, and find every single leaked report there possibly is, get it recorded! Get it archived!

We can help the federal authorities and team do their job, Ireland even said this on the radio. And yes I'm going to say something some would start turning their heads in at: The Fisher story is most likely a correct, variable assessment and main report of what went on.

Schools involved clearly are not the only ones as Cal Tech and universities constantly stating the exit polls mean nothing, are all possible suspects too. I would leave no stone unturned and do your part as citizens to call it out.

Oh and good luck, we have democracy at risk here.

"Nothing is foolproof. Footprints are real."

[Blue Wally]

46. In most states

Election are controlled at the local (city/county/township) level with some degree of oversight/standardization at the state level. In many cases, Democratic operatives are in control of the election machinery and in other cases, Republicans are in control.

Is there any difference noted in election anomalies between the Democratic controlled locales and the Republican controlled locales?? If there is no difference, then we have to consider whether all of those Democratic administrators could be on the take.

Here in Broward County, the Democratic party runs the place lock, stock, and barrel. John Kerry did not get the huge number of votes here that he was expecting.

[DS1]

40. You're a complete waste of time

[ElsewheresDaughter]

44. OKAY I GUESS I AM and i sorry, but i have seen far to many Kerry bashing

threads of late ....that i occasionally lose control of my emotions and it behooves me use an occasional primal scream...i shall use the "ignore this thread" function from now on.

these thread's are so unnecessary because of our awareness of e- voting machines and their potential for massive fraud and INHO only serve one purpose: discourse.

:crazy:

[DS1]

55. I realize I'm no bastion of rational debate sometimes, but

I think the long hard look within is warranted at this point.

I agree the election was stolen, yet it should have never been within a 30 point margin.

edit: My main reason for posting the initial reply was your inability to simply hit the alert and let the mods decide - as you agreed to do when you signed up - instead going off on a hysterical freeper accusation rant. It's really annoying to see that over and over again from people that should know better by now.

[name not needed]

43. If you don't want to hear criticism,

use the fucking ignore feature for Christ's sake.

[Ms_Mary]

29. No, he's well known now and I'm glad he's using his voice

Somebody needs to speak out against the Heil Bush mentality and I'm happy he's not fading into the shadows.

[Laelth]

35. I was glad Gore disappeared ...

... in 2000. I thought, as I'm sure many of us did, if he can't beat a babbling chimp, then good riddance ... he must have run a terrible campaign ... it's all our fault ... typical Democratic self-flagellation.

My attitude has changed in 4 years, and I regret having abandoned Gore. The fact of the matter is we ran a strong candidate this year against one of the weakest and worst candidates the Republicans have ever offered. John Kerry is a decorated war hero who has served the people in public office for most of his adult life. Bush is a draft-dodger who has destroyed every business he's ever run and who seems to serve only himself and his rich friends. According to the American people, in scientific polls taken immediately afterward, John Kerry won all three debates. The Democrats had more money than usual this time--nearly as much as the Republicans. They fought toe-to-toe in television advertising across the nation. By one count, the Democrats registered three times as many new voters as the Republicans did for this election.

And you know what? None of this mattered! The Democrats still lost. There's nothing wrong with the Democratic party, and there's nothing wrong with John Kerry. There's something very wrong with America. If Kerry can't beat Bush, then I don't think the Democrats can win at all. I think we're in for about 20 years of one-party rule. Perhaps it was election fraud. Perhaps there really are 50 million Christo-Nazis in this country. Either way, America is in trouble, and it's not John Kerry's fault he lost (if he did, in fact, lose).

He deserves our support. He is our President in Exile.

-Laelth

[greenbriar]

36. oh kiss off

and go away

[mdmc]

38. To: Dems Re: Adapt

or die.

[Fla Dem]

45. Who died and made you boss??

Through this campaign Kerry has established his creds. He put his heart and soul out there for 2 years. He took all the mud slung at him. He could easily have stayed in the senate and not have subjected himself to the rigors and demands of a national election. His strong voice in the senate now will only help the Dems get their issues across. If he gets the spotlight for the next 2 years, speaks up for the middle/lower class of America, continues to speak out on the ineptitude of this incompetent administration, he will be a much stronger candidate in '08. He has national recognition now that he didn't have in the start of this race. It was painful to watch at first, but he did learn to hone is message and speak directly to common Americans. Many of the attacks the Repugs used on him this time, will not carry as much weight the next time around. I want him to be the voice of our party. I want him out there in the spotlight kicking sand in the Repugs faces whenever he can.

[wurzel]

47. Kerry was a great candidate. But a lousy loser.

His immediate concession has ended any hope of a return as presidential candidate. I can't imagine he could gain support again.

[merh]

48. Do you know what the repukes do when their candidates lose!

They give them administrative posts or commission jobs or glorify them and they reward them for their efforts in the campaign. (eg poppy, ashcroft) They do not drop them like a hot potato, they do not banish them, ridicule them or blame them for the loss, they blame the dems or the liberal media, not their candidate. They cultivate and maintain party loyalty. The don't bicker within, they remain strong in their ranks and if there is blame and fault it is done in house and not all over the airwaves. They never admit their platform is wrong and needs reform, it was the liberal media, the distortions put forth by the other side - it is their problem, not ours.

[sangh0]

49. What a load?

Kerry *ASKS* for support, so he thinks he's "the Boss"?

Are you so filled with a sense of self-entitlement that merely asking for your support is a sign of dominance?

[CatWoman]

51. I love you, Sangha

:hi:

[sangh0]

53. You just made my day!

Now I'm going out to shop

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

52. Kerry took the initiative to keep economic issues front and center

I am glad he did. Repubs would love nothing more than for him to disappear from the spotlight like Gore did. I support Kerry still.

Oh and how about a link on the Vilsack thing

[DS1]

56. Too bad about Edwards eh? He got SHAFTED

when Kerry gave up like that.

Kerry sold him upriver faster than he could race his swiftboat.

[blm]

57. Yeah, pushing for complete healthcare for all children is SO worn out.

He helped devise the CHIPS program after Hillary's healthcare plan failed and now he wants to extend coverage so ALL children are covered, no matter what, WHILE he has a platform and can get even the most minimal airtime.

You would prefer he go away, eh? How self-defeating and destructive for the Democratic party and its goals. Should Dean or Kucinich slink away because they lost?

Your attitude is abhorrent in a democratic, forward thinking society.