What will the United States' status be in January of '09?

[Knurled99]

We all know that the US is going to take a beating with four more years of Bush. But some of the things I see going around all over the internet paint a much bleaker picture than I originally thought... now I am not so sure. People are not making up their stories about Europe aligning against the US, the urgency of the oil crisis, the effects of the Iraq and possible future wars, etc. Do you guys think we could be in ruin by the end of W's reign?

I'm not religious but if I was ever to pray for something, I'd pray that the US is still intact for long enough for us to elect someone who will turn things around. I talk about fleeing to France but I don't really want to do it!

:scared:
*Edited for incorrect smiley :shrug:

[saracat]

1. I am not sure we will be here. That is why people chirping about 2008

disturb me. But , maybe I am paranoid. I do believe nothing good will come of Bush. If he is not removed ,it will be at our peril!

[knowbody0]

2. i agree.

we must stay the course.in these two weeks he's shown the nation and the world he thinks he is god.
he holds the most powerful position in the most powerful country.
it's like allowing a pack of fighting pit bulls to run free.

[devinsgram]

17. I second it,

There is so much animosity gearing up against us in the Arab world, that revenge is sure to come. What surprises me is that those who voted for the village idiot, just do not seem to understand that. The only sadness is, that we all have to suffer for their ignorance.

[Gay Green]

31. ...we all have to suffer for their ignorance.

Us gay men especially!!!

[colonel odis]

3. we will be an insignificant country in the world arena.

in another 5 years, the iraq imbroglio will have bankrupted us (but not big corporations), and turned the world against us.

our soon-to-be-former allies will be funded by china and russia, who will probably be protecting countries like iran and syria.

here, people will live at a standard lower than during the great depression, while the giant corporations grow fatter by paying cheap wages to overseas employees.

the world will have boycotted our products and services, thus showing us that we aren't the be-all and end-all of free market capitalism.

and the republicans will have successfully won another presidential election by using gay marriage and roe v wade as wedge issues.

[Neoma]

4. I picture

Death Camps in every city
With every young person drafted to destroy the rest of the world.
And no trees and all animals extinct
and everyone living till 30 years old
and doctors are illegal
And rape rooms for young women to give birth allot.
And United States being sold to the highest bidder

course i read allot of Hitler books..
And Bush is aiming for Hitler so it seems so i can't help thinking of my future turning out like that sometimes when that dictator in the white house is mentioned.,so i go into a depressed mood and go off politics for awhile. and come back null and go on going back into that terrifying mood and it goes in circles...

/sigh

[VOX]

5. A cinder.

I am having a very tough time envisioning anything positive left intact and standing by 2009.

The Second Coming -- W. B. Yeats

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

[cornermouse]

6. I noticed that Russia has reconstituted their nuclear

program. Yahoo had an article the other day that the trend of extension of life (living longer) is over. I think the middle east will be using oil as a weapon against us. I think Europe will organize against us and try to put as many road blocks in our way as they can. Our economy won't exist any more thanks to Bush's national debt, "tax cuts", and tax code revision. And thanks to the Patriot Act, we're probably being spied upon by our own government.

I have given serious thought to moving to Europe.

[Historic NY]

7. a state of war!!!!

No jobs, high interest, no health care, social security out the door. Most hated nation status. But you know gays will not be able to marry, creationism will be old science, and the prayer concept for healing well it will be praying for a new leader to fix things.

[depakid]

8. Isolated and in a prolonged recession

Gotta pay the piper... all this borrowing and spending, plus the trade deficit and annual double healthcare cost increases don't make for a very optimistic forecast. A hiccup in the bond market or the real estate bubble and the US is in for big trouble-

[AlienGirl]

9. I had a vivid nightmare about a partitioned America...

I dreamed the US had done something so egregious that the other countries of the world had partitioned and occupied it. The cities were all bombed, burned war zones, and there were still people fighting.

Tucker

[__Inanna__]

10. A positive lot, aren't we

I hope I sleep before 5 a.m. in five years, if I am still alive.

I am scared to death and have no idea what's in store. I have read about the FEMA RX 84 camps, and hope it's an urban legend or myth. If not, it's the most horrific thing I have come across. I'd sooner be nuked that go through that. I have spent my whole life trying to arrive at where I am, and now find there may be little time to appreciate it.

The scary thing is I have had repeated dreams of planes falling from the skies (pre all of this,and for quite some time) and being blown up. I sure hope that's not an omen.

We are really fighting the forces of darkness versus light. It's going to take more than a few protests to save us on this one. It's going to take an act of God, and courageous ones to step out and expose the truth. I can only look to our military and the police and maybe some brave souls to get us out of this one. We are in a race for time and our very lives. I have come across this guy out of TX, Alex Jones, whose web site is www.prisonplanet.com. I am not given to conspiracy theories normally, but when I see what he predicts happen before my very eyes, well...all I can say is ignorance is bliss, but one can never go home again.

[aneerkoinos]

12. Fascism is not the Devil

It is just Fascism, the Devil is inside each of us.

Fantasies about fight between darkness and light just mean that your mind is still hijacked by Goebbelsian media-orgy of violence. The purpose of that is to catch your attention and put you in the deer in the head-light mode and/or build suffocating rage inside you, thus preventing you from looking out without blinders and acting creatively and constructively. Free your mind, drop out, forget the Fascists and do what you can do to help eachother. There is so much to do!

[__Inanna__]

20. But if I free my mind

that means I have to turn off this computer and not come here, and I can't seem to do that.

Folks, it's now 5:50 a.m. and I think I will try to get some sleep. This whole thing has me feeling as bad as 911, only because I've met the enemy and it ain't what everyone thinks, but I will try to do my best to pull out of this. Had no idea the impact this election and subsequent discoveries would have on me. And I think the BFEE has the upper hand and I don't see the powers that be stepping in to overrule the "evil-doers" Blah blah blah,ignore me, I am tired.

[aneerkoinos]

21. Internet

Is not the Goebbelsian propaganda media, each of us can make it something else, constructive, not destructive.

Beautifull dreams, friend! :)

[jokerman93]

36. This is the voice of leadership

Whoever you are, we need thousands of more voices like yours.

[aneerkoinos]

11. Here's what

I just wrote this in another thread, let's put it here also:

Federation is lost cause, you can't beat the regime before it unravels the Federation. Accept the reality and kiss USA goodbuy.

The way to go is autonomy, making the regime irrelevant. You can act on personal, local and even State level, build networks of mutual assistance and information sharing, adopt local currencies and reinvent local production, ecologically sustainable. The way of Argentina, you can do better. With the Federation you should also kiss goodbuy the Democratic party, for most parts at least. Greens are still fresh, there is allready some knowhow and open to creative ideas about building autonomous structures, but the whole thing isn't about established parties, it's about surviving and building democracy from scratch, authentic democracy.

[datasuspect]

13. new york

either turned into a prison camp

or

global warming keeps the temperature so hot that they can't grow food (and pro-lifers succeed so there is rampant overpopulation) and a major biotech firm that supposedly makes foodstuffs from sea plankton is actually making food from PEOPLE!

[aneerkoinos]

14. Deer in the head-light

I don't know if I'm getting through to anybody, but I feel this message is important:

Before you mentally disconnect from fear and false hopes, which only cause frustration and anxiety, you cannot act freely and creatively.

Here's one suggestion: how about starting to turn your homes and especially local communities energy independent by building renewable infrastructures, conservation, biomass, photovoltaics, wind, every way you can, as much as you can? You can't and you shouldn't wait for someone else, least of all the Federal Regime, to do it for you. Fuck the slavery of economics of scale, go autonomous, go free!

[UNIXcock]

15. Prepare for the coming storm ...

... it is possible to prosper in bad times. Survivors do it. I say it's no time to worry and hide. No, rather meet it head on and make the economy, regardless of its health, work in your family's favor.

[aneerkoinos]

18. Me and my family first

and fuck everybody else? I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but that's how it reads.

Sorry to tell you, but that is not the survivors attitude; we are humans, we don't survive alone. If everybody starts acting in similar destructive ways in herd mentality, looking after only for their prosperity and survival, the worse for all of you. That attitude of faux individualism is perhaps THE biggest problem you need to overcome, in order to survive.

[UNIXcock]

24. You are absolutely correct ...

... I don't know about you, but the welfare of my immediate family comes first. If I can help others in life I will but not at the expense of the health of my family.

... We've prepared for the unknown by fostering close friendships and fellowship with our local parishioners. Stocking enough food, water and fuel supply to last the family nearly 8 months. I even reload my own ammo for fun (I know, I have no life)

... Why?

... Because as the author suggests, it's gonna get rough ahead, we've known this for awhile now and have come to expect it for a long time coming - So we prepared.

... So don't lecture me on how I conduct my legitimate business and I promise not to wag my finger at your lifestyle.

... And guess what kiddo, I've been through rough times before. I never took advantage of anyone then, as you're alluding, and I don't ever plan to. I prospered then because I worked long hours on opportunities in my favor as opposed to waiting for a winning lottery ticket to materialize.

... It's all about faith, financial and social responsibility.

[aneerkoinos]

25. So

What happens after those 8 months? I'm not speaking survival of the individual (or his extended family and friends), but survival of society, or building a society. Because after those 8 months you won't survive without some sort of society in place, economy and infrastructure that can fullfill your and others basic material needs, and doctors and teachers would be also good to have around, etc.

It doesn't take a genious to guess what will happen when all the people turn into gun toting survivalists, hoarding as much stuff they can from any place they can to look after themselves and their closest ones for the near future. I've seen Mad Max and Postman. In the real survival game you need to think generations ahead, think about all the people, all the life, and do what you can and what is needed locally, together with others.

[UNIXcock]

26. You're stating the obvious here, we all know a "stash" doesn't ...

... last forever. All it does is carry a family through hard times in the event of a catastrophic economic failure.

... As mentioned, many of us like minded liberals here would barter our skills, vegetables and commodities if the storm "extended it's stay" past 8 months. In the mean time, it doesn't mean we wouldn't share and trade. Heck, we do that now.

... I apologize if I came across as selfish. Those that know me intimately know that I'm anything but. I'm just not good at conveying intent in text I suppose.

... Bottom line, regardless of lousy leadership, natural catastrophes, nuclear exchange or localized terrorism, we all have an obligation to ourselves, and loved ones that rely on us, to be prepared

... Peace

[aneerkoinos]

33. The obvious

My analysis, for various reasons, is that the US federal level is lost cause for the forseeable future, and if progressive, responsible forces keep sticking their hopes to it, Mad Max scenario is quite likely.

There is still room for progressive political action on local level, including state level. Getting socially prepared on various local levels and building alternative economical and political local alternatives militarized and corrupt central governement is what it takes for society to survive. Most of all, getting prepared and autonomous on communal level is the best and most efficient way of resistance to Bushista proto-fascism, because the change comes from bottom up, it allways does.

Autonomous, self-reliant energy economies based on renewables are of first importance; rest is easier. New, creative form of democracy can and should be developed. The word 'prepared' brings to mind the Scout movement. It can be important asset!

[UNIXcock]

34. See? We have some common ground

... hope to meet you in AZ some day. We make this "enjoyable" the best we can (to keep from going nutz - further) :pals:

[aneerkoinos]

38. Peok Oil and community

I live far far away in Finland, but thanks anyhow. :)

I've came accros a site the gathers people who seem to be serious about doing something about spreading awarness even outside Internet and searching solutions for survival on communal level, perhaps this interests you:
http://www.postcarbon.org/

Enjoy!

[Strelnikov_]

16. Radioactive. Is That Bleak Enough?

Should not have read 'On The Beach' recently.

[RPM]

19. charred cinder after the Nuculer holocaust of 2007

where is the old nuclear clock these days - 5 to midnight?

[GOPBasher]

22. Umm maybe we'll be a theocracy who's at war with everybody.

[Vogon_Glory]

23. One Interesting Possibility

One interesting possibility for this country's future might be that the US will become a cheap place to visit not only for wealthy Europeans, but also not-so-wealthy Europeans and Asians--provided that the borders aren't sealed tight.

Think about it. Why did Hemingway and Fitzgerald set so many of their novels in places like France, Italy, and Spain right after World War One? Why did American school teachers used to visit Italy before World War II? Because their currency exchange rates were pitiful and because those places used to be dirt cheap to live in, that's why.

Nowadays, the Euro is heading towards an exchange rate of two dollars to the Euro and Europe is hideously expensive. The shoe is on the other foot.

My advice to anyone seeking a career in the hotel, resort, or associated industries is to start learning French, German, and rudimentary Japanese and Mandarin. Learn how to speak the respectful forms (Inferiors to superiors)--you'll be using it a lot. Learn to understand how superiors speak to inferiors--you'll be hearing it a lot.

[NuttyFluffers]

30. ding, ding, ding, ding! my path at the moment!

gonna dance for my new overlords, kinder than the old overlords.

me and my lil' troop of entertainers will play the song and dance. food, wine, song, poetry, acting, comedy, think my friends and mine can make it if we can fawn right over our non-american 'most esteemed' customers.

[Vogon_Glory]

32. Just Remember, Grovel For The Tourists, and Do It Right! n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

27. Well one thing's for sure, we don't want to loose '08...

I don't think that I could take a Santorum administration.

[liberalpragmatist]

28. Malaise

We'll be in the midst of a permanently stalled economy. Like how the economy has been the last couple of years - slow growth, some income growth among high-end earners and no catastrophic recession, but stagnation no rising wages massive unemployment...

The world will be a far more dangerous place. We'll have pulled out of Iraq but the place will have descended into anarchy and civil war, prompting the US to have to return as a result of a UN peacekeeping force that is forced on Bush by others. Iran and North Korea will have nuclear weapons, and China will be rapidly expanding their nuclear arsenal and their regional power. The EU will be far more unified and more economically powerful, taking on a far more prominent role in peacekeeping missions and in diplomacy.

The air will be even more poisoned. Bush will have approval ratings in the 30s, but the partisan split of the country will remain. We'll probably have yet another close race in 2008. The red-blue divide may well seem permanent.

Abortion will still be legal, but federal power to regulate business will be dramatically curtailed by a corporate-whore Supreme Court that got confirmed by being stealth - so-called moderate appointees who backed Roe v. Wade but wanted to dismantle the New Deal state.

We'll have entered a period of long-term decline. We won't necessarily go the way of Rome b/c there's more sense of being "American" than there was of being "Roman." But it will be a real decline. Maybe not completely irreversible given the right leadership in the future, but still pretty lasting. We'll have lost most of the respect and goodwill of other nations, and will be despised on the world stage. Comparisons with the former USSR will be made by prominent historians.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

29. The Euro will become the world's reserve currency $2.50 = EUR1

The U.S. economy is beset by stagflation. Mutterings of succession begins to be heard in some northern states.

The national debt climbs closer to 90% of GDP. The minimum wage and unemployment insurance is abolished by Congress.

Tax brackets for the wealthy are abolished are replaced with a Federal Sales Tax of 30% on all goods and services. However certain Corporations can claim this tax back in the form of tax deductions.

Due to more terrorist attacks within the U.S. the President is given more wide-reaching executive powers that enable him to dissolve Congress at will, wage war and intern designated enemies of the state.

New media Guidelines are passed by Congress called the Patriotic Doctrine, where the T.V. news, radio and print media are not permitted to report anything that may be critical of the aims of the U.S. Administration in the "interests of freedom and to protect democracy".

Chinese officials help the U.S.A. to implement a 'Liberty Firewall' that can block anyone in the U.S. from visiting websites that are considered to be 'anti-American' and contrary to the intended policies of the U.S. Government.

Registered Democrats are put on a national "no-fly" list.

The military draft is abolished and replaced with conscription; young men aged 18 are to complete 4 years military service. However, some patriotic Americans of a certain wealth requirement can purchase a deferment directly from the Federal Government.

Congress amends the Constitution, finally banning abortion in northern Democratic states and swing states.

The Patriotic Voting Act is passed in Congress that implements a property requirement in order to vote in elections. A person who owns multiple properties is permitted to vote as many times.

Homosexuality is recriminalized in southern states

Due to trade disputes between U.S. and Canada, Canada applies to join the European Union.

The newly-liberated country of Cuba is designated a special "U.S. Territory under the jurisdiction on the United States Military".

Evangelical missions supported by the U.S. are established in the liberated countries of Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.

The U.S. President reveals that he has evidence that Syria has WMDs and intends to invade. The E.U. and China threaten sactions.

The U.S. President signs a military alliance with Russian leader Vladimir Putin who recently altered his own constitution to allow himself to be President-for-life.

The U.S.A. withdraws from the U.N. and N.A.T.O.

35. Mush worse

Things will get much worse. As a liberal I very much knew what was up so did the rest of the American people that is why they voted Gore into office. Most of the Democratic leadership did not expect Gore to win, that the people would actually vote for a liberal like Gore. Gore was even more liberal then Kennedy.They went nuts.

That is why they stole the election. They knew that America and democracy itself could not be ended with Gore in power; the people might see some good and vote the militarism folks out or destroy the Military-Industrial-Complex which have been the ones really in power from the 40s on. It was mostly kept secret from the people from the 40s on about the real issue of those that were in power behind the curtain.

But with all the new technology, the media the fraud of the beast could not be covered up as it was like from the 40s to the 80s. Hell that’s all they did from the 40s to the present was pull strings on the puppets of the politicians. The military-industrial-complex has always been the powers that be from the building of the A Bomb.

Well, from now on most of the Dems that are to the right of the Dems will switch parties on the local level to Republican or they will be voted out of office.A Democrat has about a zero chance of ever getting voted in office during War.

The War. Well the War will go on and on and on. The war will still be going on in the year 2100.

It really gets much worse so much so I cannot even say. Almost to tears.

[datasuspect]

37. we will be argentina

[petepillow]

39. nuclear winter?

[maveric]

40. President Schwartzenegger takes the oth of office.

With the sweet young voices of the Arnold Youth singing our new national anthem "Let the Eagle Soar".