Should Our Military Get a Free Pass?

[placton]

I know there are military persons on this site. I have long advocated an expansion of our military.

But, and don't flame me too much, doesn't much of the US military bear some blame for this illegal war and the atrocities taking place? From prisons, to hospitals, to killing innocents in the street, there seems to be an "it's OK, we are being shot at attitude."

Yeah, yeah, I know war brings atrocities, Ya da ya da ya da.

But PEOPLE are doing this, not some idea or administration. PEOPLE are committing war crimes.

[saigon68]

1. NOT FROM ME

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/05/06/430_leash,0.jpg

[IrateCitizen]

2. War brings out all that is most noble and most vile in man

What we are seeing now is no different than stuff that "our guys" did in WWII, Korea or Vietnam. It's simply the nature of war, PERIOD.

Having been in the military, I don't blame our troops for what's going on over there. I don't excuse them for any atrocities that they commit, but I also don't blame them at the same time.

The very nature of war and its effects on those involved in it should give pause to any who consider it as a means. It should only be considered when EVERY OTHER CONCEIVABLE ALTERNATIVE has been exhausted, and even then only reluctantly. I think we can all agree that the Bush administration did not pursue this path, instead glorifying war and using it as a near-first alternative.

Despite the fact that many of the troops (clearly not all) have a RW mindset, and that many of them may believe in what they are doing, I still cannot bring myself to blame those who are victims of a misplaced or betrayed trust toward their civilian leadership to do the right thing by them.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. No. War criminals should be tried by an international tribunal.

No matter where they're from. As for the US military bearing some blame, I would say a lot of blame. Whether it be the sadists at Abu-Ghraib, the guy who shot the wounded prisoner, or the guys piloting the planes with the "smart" bombs that kill civilians.

There are a lot of bloody hands that should be put in handcuffs.

[radwriter0555]

4. No. I have no respect for someone who kills for a paycheck. It doesn't

matter if they're on the chow line, they're doing their job in order to destroy a country and its people JUST for a paycheck.

They can indeed WALK away if they CHOOSE to. It's only 800 miles to Cairo. They can leave. They still have free will.

[IrateCitizen]

5. Yes, they have free will. But how will they live?

Will you give them and their family the money they need to survive? Will you pay for their education so that they can improve their lot in life -- the reason most of them signed up in the first place?

I've been in the position you're describing here, radwriter. It isn't an easy one, to say the least. I'm sure you realize that. But rather than just say they should leave, why not get involved with an organization that provides them counsel and advice, like the GI Rights Hotline?

[MattWinMO]

10. soldiers can't pick and choose which...

Wars and battles to fight in or not fight in. The day our soldiers are above our elected civilian officials is a scary day. In a democratic republic the military and our soldiers are under civilian control. This means soldiers have to follow orders from civil authorities.

They can't decide unilaterally to go against civil authorities. Military dictatorships arise when soldiers start making decisions about war and peace for themselves.

[atreides1]

6. No Free Pass

I've been in combat, and I will admit that it wasn't anything compared to what these soldiers and marines are involved in, but what
has been done is wrong, plain and simple.

Whether it was the torturers of Abu Ghraib, the soldiers that made two Iraqis jump into a river and did nothing while one drowned, to the marines that treated an Iraqi detainee worse then people treat an animal by not getting medical treatment.

All of these people committed the crimes, and not the administration, though there will be those that say it's the administrations fault, but unless they can show exactly where the chain of command ordered these atrocities, the blame lies with those who commit these crimes.

Those that have committed these crimes know right from wrong, but it didn't matter, they did it anyway.

So no free pass.

[UdoKier]

7. Really, so spending more than all other countries in the world COMBINED

isn't enough for you?

The "defense" (LOL!) budget is RIDDLED with pork and giveaways to the military industrial complex. Every little thing is marked up 400 to 800% and in the meantime, the soldiers only ever see a tiny piece of it.

Smedley Butler on War

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

[MattWinMO]

8. they don't get a free pass.....

Civilians get killed in war, it's only a war crime if the civilians are targetted or are killed as a result of a severe lack of proportionality. If a soldier shoots an unarmed person he/she can and will be prosecuted.

However half the things you've listed wouldn't be considered war crimes. Shooting armed insurgents isn't a war crime even if you think we're illegally occupying their country.

I strongly believe most of the civilian casualties are armed townspeople trying to make our soldiers leave their towns. However, you can't expect our soldiers to not shoot back.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Batgirl]

11. does being fucked-up for life sound like a free pass

A team of grand master exorcists won't be able to chase away their demons after what they're seeing and participating in over there, (no matter what degree of willingness they display now).

I have draft age sons and live in fear that they'll be taken away and put in Iraq or the next horrible place. Like any parent I'd give my life in an instant to save theirs.

Those boys over there could be my boys. Anyone who thinks these are fully formed adults doesn't share my familiarity with the 19-year-old male psyche.

They mostly only know what they're told, and are operating in a military culture and under extreme life-threatening circumstances.
The ones who are lucky enough to survive physically might not survive mentally/spiritually/emotionally.

It goes without saying that war crimes are despicable and those who perpetrate them should be punished. But I personally am unqualified to serve as judge and jury.