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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:47 PM
Original message
Breaking CNN: "Did a US marine execute an Iraqi?"
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 04:58 PM by Bluebear
News from the Pentagon developing...

Is our press waking up? For an instant? Nah, probably shamed because BBC had it on their news. No escape of this pesky story.

"We're not going to show you the actual shooting because it is too explicit." BLACKENED SCREEN

on edit: Wolf is framing it...."We don't know if the insurgent was any threat...if he wasn't it was murder but we don't know that...."

guest William Cohen: "Did he have a weapon? If so he could have been a threat, we have to wait.....

And now onto an interview of Madonna who is writing a children's book. International members, this is how this war is reported in the US.
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DenverDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Does the pope shit in the woods?
We've executed about a hundred thousand Iraqis so far. Various techniques. Why single this poor bastard out?
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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. because there's a video, and tv doesn't see a story until pictures appear
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. "Why single this poor bastard out?
Because he was caught on film.
Same reason those Abu Gharaib "bad apples" got singled out
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. They were just 'blowing off steam'
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Why single this one out?
Apparently because he was wounded and unarmed and shot point blank in the head and it was caught on video.

As opposed to the other people who were wounded and unarmed and we shot point blank in the head that we didn't catch on video.
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Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. the only reason they are bothering to cover this specific story
is because the BBC is playing the footage on the news tonight. There's another thread about it somewhere here.
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Brotherjohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Here's the other thread on it:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yes I realize
I beought it up so people over here could see it. But of course it was "too explicit" for US television.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. IMO US television should be more "explicit" with regard to the atrocities
being committed in our names. Like John Kerry said when he tossed his medals over the wall, "I'm not doing this to oppose anyone, I'm just trying to wake my Country up." Or words to that effect.
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. here's the original LBN thread...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

got some apologist testing out wolf's talking points on there, creepy.
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DenverDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I realize this.The question was rhetorical.
It's just supremely hypocritical, is all I'm saying (which is redundant in itself, of course).
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Manfred Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. just one
of many
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. Execution. Torture. What else?
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against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. They left those guys there for a couple of days, guess they didn't die
soon enough. Hey, if we're so fucking stupid how come the Brits are going to re-elect Blair?
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Mike L Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. No, didn't happen........... unless there's video.
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AnIndependentTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. looks like there is video
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. MSNBC reported this also -- once -- a short while ago. Unarmed man...
shot by a Marine.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. FUCK NO! I hate this shit.
Present <> Meet history

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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. "We don't know if the insurgent was any threat..." he must be reading DU
:evilgrin:

but the fellow didn't look worried a bit and we all heard the person he shoot was already wounded.

i am glad the media is looking at this one case but i hope they don't ignore the other much larger WAR CRIMES going on over there right now :argh:
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. Another great american hero...
the more death, the greater the heroism, or something like that.
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nine23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. OK FOLKS> ICAN HARDLY TYPE
JUST SAW AN EXECUTION ON THE BBC IN CANADA. I CAN CAN HARDLY FUCKI9NG TYPE.

THIS WAS AN EXECUTION. ON CAMERA. AN EXECUTION VIETNAM STYLE. NOT THE FOOTAGE FROM LAST NIGHT IN THE ALLEY.

HEAR ME OUT. FUCK YOU AND YOUR DESPICABLE HIDEOUS COUNTRY. THIS IS DISCONNECT. FROM YOU.

I'M TAKING A BREAK FROM DU FOR A WHILE. I WILL NOT BE HERE WHILE YOU GO ON ABOUT "IT'S HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR FIGHTING BOYS". IT MOST CERTAINLY FUCKING DOES.

SHAME ON YOU ALL. FUCKING SHAME.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Hang on a minute.
Clean out your garage. I'm moving north.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. For every creep who is raping and pillaging and murdering over there
there are 5 or more honestly decent folk trying to do the right thing.

I am not saying we should be there. I am not saying we are doing no wrong there. But you can't blame every kid who wanted to go to college on the GI Carrot, erm... bill, who got sucked into a place where they might get killed. Did they know they might risk going to war. Yeah. But the offer of college was too good to turn down.

Damn this country for not having k-college public education and for forcing poor kids to play Russian roulette just to get an education. And even if they DO come back alive, most of those kids are horrified by what they have seen and done in the war.

-----------------------------------
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. "trying to do the right thing"
If there were, they'd have placed this guy under arrest immediately and they'd be demanding he be charged with murder. Instead of doing the right thing they're just looking the other way.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:37 PM
Original message
There are plenty of war vets on this board. Talk to them and ask them
why the "right thing" doesn't happen more often. :(

-----------------------------------
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AnIndependentTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
31. wasn't this what John Kerry was talking about in Vietnam?
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Mike L Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
48. You mean, "raped, murdered, cut off ears....."?
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. So you think this Marine should be arrested....
because he mistakenly thought someone was a threat and killed them?

This isnt Abu Gharaib where they had the luxury of not being fired upon and not fearing for thier life, and they still did the wrong thing.

Combat situations are different.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #44
56. Yeah, like Hitler thought the Jews were a threat.
It was only in self defense!

:eyes:
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. So you are comparing this Marine to Hitler?
:eyes:

A more appropriate comparision would be to compare the Marine to the guys working the camps, but even that is flawed.

Neither Hilter nor the camp guards were in a combat zone fighting jews.

For the most part jews didnt take up arms against Nazi Germany.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. Hitler. Charles Manson. Ted Bundy.
They're all fucking murderers. So I guess that means I'm comparing you to holocaust deniers.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #65
72. I could compare you to some other things...
but I generally avoid using ad homs.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Well aren't you a saint.
You don't use ad hominems. You apologize for war crimes, somebody shoots a wounded, helpless man in the face, no problems. But hey, nobody's perfect.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
74. Sorry but you are equivocating. Yes..if a wounded combatant is alive
it is murder to shoot him in the head point blank
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. K through College Public education... This is an idea i've been
pushing for years. But, but, but, who would clean the toilets? Who would die in wars fought for the benefit of the elite?

Can't have that kind of subversive ideology in our godly society, dammit!!!
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Plus, it costs too much! We need 700 new aircraft carriers in the
next 3 centuries. Can't afford that sort of education nonsense right now. We are in crisis!

:eyes:

-----------------------------------
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Hey - I'm with ya... don't be pissed at those of us that...
despise the assholes such as the one in the execution vid. Fuck him and lock him away for life. But the power-pussies in office like george 'the punkass frat boy' bush, need to be locked up as well. They set the stage for torture, they set the stage for this kind of gangland 'liberation'. They are equally responsible. They should all share the same cell somewhere in a remote Siberian gulag.

I'm ashamed of this country.
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ilovenicepeople Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:03 PM
Original message
theres only one way to stop your government
and it's going to be the same way no matter how much you whine and appologize about it.YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT BACK!!!!but I guess your waiting for someone else to start first?(not to be taken personally Union Thug)SHOW US WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE!(PLEASE!)
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
25. If the Iraqi didnt surrender then he is fair game...
wounded people can still fight and kill.
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nine23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. HE WAS SITTING ON THE FLOOR IN A MOSQUE
LEANING UP AGAINST A WALL. NO WEAPON IN SIGHT. SEVERELY WOUNDED.

THEN HE WAS EXECUTED.
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G23 Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I wander what the rest of the story is that the camera didnt show?
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Yes, I wonder... Eyewitness reports are not enough...
Pictures of atrocities are not enough! Actual video footage is not enough. It's a LIE-brul CONSPIRACY, I TELLS YA!!! Now, let's go to church and talk about our moral values.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Oh gee, paint a scenario
What do you suppose?
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bobbyboucher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Just what they're asking in Freeperland, maybe you should go
over there, they got it all figured out.
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nine23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. HEY. LISTEN. I JUST SAW THIS.
I NOW UNDERSTAND THE BRIT WHO STARTED THIS THREAD AND GOT HIS POSTS DELETED.

I'M FUCKING ANGRY. I'M FUCKING APPALLED. AND I'M NOT GONNA HANG AROUND HERE AND LISTEN TO THIS TIRED SHIT.

NO. NO FUCKING WEAPON. AN EXECUTION. IN A MOSQUE. AREA SECURED. YOU JUST LOST THE FUCKING WAR.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. We lost it before we went in there. We all knew it was crap
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 05:46 PM by GreenPartyVoter
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Fight the fraud; fund the recount!
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Well I just saw the video...
on ABC, apparently the Marines didnt know that the wounded/dead had been there for so long.

Sounds like someone else told him that the wounded guy was faking, and the Marine killed him thinking the wounded guy was plotting something.

I wouldnt consider it murder, but definately a case of miscommunication and fear for thier lives.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. "He's fucking faking he's dead. He faking he's fucking dead." KAPOW!
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 05:49 PM by Bluebear
How is that a "miscommunication"?

He said one Marine noticed one of the prisoners was still breathing.

A Marine can be heard saying on the pool footage provided to Reuters Television: "He's fucking faking he's dead. He faking he's fucking dead."

"The Marine then raises his rifle and fires into the man's head. The pictures are too graphic for us to broadcast," Sites said. No images of the shooting were shown in the footage provided to Reuters.

The report said the Marine, who had returned to duty after being shot in the face a day earlier, had been removed from the field and was being questioned by the U.S. military.

Sites said the shot prisoner "did not appear to be armed or threatening in any way."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20041...
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. if someone is alive they could post a threat...
another marine pointed out to the shooter "he is faking," thus he could still be a threat, the shooter took note of this and killed him.

The miscommunication is that the wounded guy was probably not faking, and thus not a threat.

I saw the video and it all happened pretty quick.

I think it was similar to someone calling out a target and the other guy eliminating the target without even thinking for himself about the target.
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. are you writing the next Dr.Stranglove script, or somt'n? sheesh...
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. I dont think there will be a sequal to Dr. Strangelove...
althought it was a pretty good movie.
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. we're liv'n it
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. 'faking' it?
This isn't a bloody orgasm. Did the guy display a weapon? Did he show any sign of agression whatsoever? "Sir, i was told the gaping wounds and deep sea diver gurgling sounds in his breathing were all just a clever a ruse, so I shot him. SIR YES SIR!"

I call it murder.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. Hey those arent my words...
those were the words of the marine (not the shooter).

From the video it seems like the shooter heard this and took it at face value, and killed the wounded guy without even thinking about it for himself.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. Keep making excuses...
if it helps you sleep better at night.

Sid
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lawladyprof Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
50. The soldiers thought he was dead
They said so (you could hear it on the tape) and then one said, "He's breathing." Then, one of them shot him.
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. They should have made it into a movie then it would have been ok to watch
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 05:41 PM by Postman
The US press treats us like children. What Americans do overseas in their name is too ugly for Americans to see on TV.

Do these editors at these mainstream news outlets in the US think that the rest of the world isn't seeing these things?

Do they think that the Arab world is getting censored news like we do here in the US?

Only in America are the masses kept ignorant of their governments deeds.

You people in the mainstream press might be able to pull the wool over the eyes of the American people but you can't fool the people of the rest of the world.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Spanish News Stations...
thats one of the reason I like to watch the Spanish TV stations for news from time to time.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
39. He appeared to be unconcious and barely breathing.....
I just watched it on BBC. The marine says "He is breathing He is DEAD now" and blows his head off at close range with his whateverthefuck caliber atoumatic weapon. It was just the most disgusting, horrible display. I am ashamed yet again for AmeriKKKA.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. We have got to get our troops out of there. This is only going to happen
more and more often.

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Mike L Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
42. Maybe they'll show the footage on CBC.
I see a lot of stuff on it that doesn't make it to US TV.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
47. Yahoo news now
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nine23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #47
61. OK. I just poured myself a single malt.
Sorry for the outburst. I missed Vietnam. I'm just not used to seeing this shit on TV. Maybe there's something to be said about censorship after all.

I could've done without seeing that. Sorry again everyone.
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
54. LINK PLEASE to video??
Could someone please provide a working video link to this?

RTP
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. Voila
http://news.bbc.co.uk /

Click "latest news in video" upper right
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. This is not working for me. I get a logo.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. Just tried again, it's working here
Sorry mate :(
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Self Delete
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:11 PM by ReadTomPaine
Another poster answered this below.
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Self Delete
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:02 PM by ReadTomPaine
Not the same link
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
57. I saw that on Cnn
Before they went in the sarge or whoever asking about somewhere "Did you shoot em? Then inside, one soldier yelling, He's dead, he's dead - blam he's dead now. The Iraqi's were laying there suffering overnight. What a sick quagmire and sick troops and sick administration. We should not be there in the first place.
Earlier, the news is showing some gung ho military with slight wounds acting all proud and ready to go back. I wonder if the brain dead ones or legless ones want to go back?
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #57
66. No need for aid, say marines
No need for aid, say marines
From correspondents in Fallujah
November 15, 2004

The US military says it sees no need for the Iraqi Red Crescent to deliver aid to people inside Fallujah, and does not think any Iraqi civilians are trapped inside the city.

"There is no need to bring (Red Crescent) supplies in because we have supplies of our own for the people," said US Marine Colonel Mike Shupp.

"Now that the bridge (into Fallujah) is open I will bring out casualties and all aid work can be done here (at Fallujah's hospital)."

He said he had not heard of any Iraqi civilians being trapped inside the city and did not think that was the case.

more...
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,1138937...

DU...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

sounds like they need all the help they can get... unless the plan is to MURDER EVERYONE :cry:


Our Nanking?
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Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
63. Here's video...
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:07 PM by Contrary1
The actual shooting has been blacked out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/default.st...

Upper right:
Click "Watch BBC News in Video"

Then click on:
News bulletins
One, Six and Ten O'Clock News
(lower right)

It is about 1/4 of the way through.
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. Thank you very much!
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #63
69. Apparently Big Brother Has much more censorship controll this war
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:11 PM by RyomaSakamoto


The 1968 photo that came to define the work of Eddie Adams: South Vietnamese National Police Chief Lt. Col. Nguyen Ngoc Loan executed a Viet Cong captive with a pistol shot in Saigon.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
70. It was a disgusting murder, but I blame Bush, not the kid
I can't say for sure that I would follow all the rules of engagement if I was thrown in the middle of Fallujah and asked to fight for Bush. I'd like to think I would. It's easy to sit back in the comfort of the U.S. and assume what we would or wouldn't do in that situation. These kids are scared to death and many, I believe, have lost their damn minds.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. I bet Rumsfeld is kicking himself for allowing "embedded reporters"
They will regret that PR stunt far more than any actual code violations that occur.
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #70
77. I blame both.
Both bush and this dumbass soldier share the blame.

I struggle with the question you raise here all the time. In the end we make our choices, obviously some of us are more limited in our choices than others, but we make them nonetheless.

I know this about myself, if I were given the choice between going to war to fight for what amounts to the interests of the social elite, or going to jail, I would go to jail. I made this decision when I they started forcing us to register for the draft back when I was a teenager. I remember calling into the Sally Jesse Raphael late night radio show back when she did such things, and expressing this choice...and for the rest of the evening, other callers SLAMMED me for my ideas. That's fine. I knew then that I would never kill at the behest of another man. Fuck them.

So when I hear of stories like this, I know that in my heart of hearts, i would have opted for prison rather than participate in the slaughter. Now, before you go on about how I may have had more options in life than the soldier in question, let me just add that I grew up in a blue collar union household. Reagan fucked my father and there was no money for college for any of us. I was told to consider the military as a way out and to pay for school. I didn't do it. I attended college when I could, but never finished a degree. Luckily, I'm fairly quick to catch on, and with a lot of luck, I managed to land a very good job, in spite of my lack of formal education. My brother wasn't so lucky. Nor was the older of my two sisters (the younger of the two inherited the same cunning that i did, so she is doing fairly well, all things considered).

So, yeah, I hear what you are saying, but I also know that we all make choices, and choosing to kill a man for no other reason than some overzealous, underachieving frat boy from a rich family telling me to would NEVER have been an option for me.
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goodoptics Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
75. I saw it and here's more
I saw the shooting on the news and it turned out that another squade had left them in that room.
But remember that army squade that refused to drive the fuel convoy because they had no support or armor on their trucks. Well before the elections they were to be retrained now after the election they are going to be charged and have to go to trial. Bush won go figure!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Welcome to DU goodoptics
Wish we could meet under happier circumstances.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
78. Out, Out Damn Spot
Will these hands never be clean
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