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Are you watching 60 Minutes? "Anonymous", retired CIA OBL expert on now

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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:07 PM
Original message
Are you watching 60 Minutes? "Anonymous", retired CIA OBL expert on now
This could be interesting...
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smbolisnch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Just tuned in...
Should be interesting to see what he has to say. :kick:
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democrat in Tallahassee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. They seemed to ignore any specifics about how W ignored the problem
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
31. Just an exercise of "Limited Hang"
That's all Scheuer's book is ("Imperial Hubris"). I too noted that blame was carefully placed on three people, all vestiges of the Clinton administration: Clark, Tenet, and I've forgotten the third. How convenient!!! Not a peep about Conda-lie-za, Darth Cheney, Rummy, The Wolf, nor Gee Dubya. I'm sure some truth is revealed in Hubris, but I'm also sure that this is an exercise in the limited hang.

(Definition: "The Limited Hang" -- put enough truth out there to sate curious appetites, but be sure to settle accountability on some mid-level or expendable officials, and thereby displace attention from those who truly are accountable.)
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Great observation.
Btw, I thought the term was "limited hangOUT" -- but your point is well-taken in any case.

I haven't read his book, so I don't have that to judge by. I did listen to an NPR interview with him back when the book first came out. He struck me as a real heavy duty rightwinger -- he seemed to have a "bomb them all, let Allah sort it out" kind of mindset.

I decided then that he probably WASN'T going to be one my personal whistleblower heroes.

sw
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Oops
Yes, it is "limited hang-out", you are correct.

Does anyone recall the third person Sheuer/60 Minutes flashed blame to -- it was Tenet, Clarke, and ...?
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Nope, sorry.
Was it a Clinton D.O.D. official by any chance?
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
50. Tenet. n/t
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shawn703 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Is he the one that's critical of how OBL has been handled? n/t
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yes. He's the author of "Imperial Hubris" (as 'anonymous')
His name is Michael Scheuer, and he's still forbidden from directly acknowledging that he's "anonymous", but it's really well-established that that's who he is.

sw
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. An excellent book
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
60. Michael also wrote
"Through Our Enemies' Eyes." People who are interested in the conflict between Halliburton and the Muslim world should read both of his books. They are vital to understanding the full scope of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the dangerous road that Bush/Cheney is leading our nation -- and the world -- down at this time.
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. Great.
We're over there in Fallujah justifying bin Laden's future attack.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. Basically he says bin Laden has a nuke or dirty bomb . . .
and he will use it in the US
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RawMaterials Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. great forshadowing
now we wont have to worry about who won the election becuase were all scared about osama bin landen
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mom-mad-about-bush Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Why aren't more people up in arms about this???
This is the second or third time I have heard that bin Laden is going to attack us with a dirty bomb. I even heard earlier today that they believe nuke material has been or could be brought into this country via Mexico. Does anyone think this is not possible???? Why aren't more people scared about this???? Haven't we learned anything from 9/11???? Bin Laden's threat before the elction was that states supporting Bush would be at risk...that is the RED STATES!!!!
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I live in a red state. Perhaps its time to move...
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mom-mad-about-bush Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. That's only if you can beleive bin Laden????
Can you really believe that you are safe in a blue state just because bin Laden said??? Probably not. I wish I could feel safe in my blue state....but if he wants to kill millions the blue states are the highly populated states also. I don't think anyone in this country should feel safe....lets face it....how are we safer from bin Laden since 9/11? We are not safer....just saying your not scared or not going to let the terrorist think your scared isn't going to make us safer. Just like fighting a war in Iraq is not making us safer. What if something does happen here??? I wish people were scared. I wish our government was scared...maybe they would do something to protect us. BUT....WHY AREN'T PEOPLE SCARED???? I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW. WHY ARE PEOPLE NOT SCARED? Doesn't all the evidence prove that we should be?
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. What good does being scared do?
No matter what, we're all still many, many, many times more likely to die in a car accident than in a terrorist attack. I don't spend my life being terrified about getting a car, I'm certainly not going live my life scared of OBL.

Fear is the mind killer...

sw
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mom-mad-about-bush Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. FEAR IS THE ONLY THINK THAT WILL MAKE OUR GOVERNMENT
PROTECT US. Are we really going to ignore the threat just for a mind game?
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. I'm sorry. Please understand that I'm totally cynical about our govm'nt.
I don't believe for a moment that Bush, inc. has any sincere interest in protecting us. They are only out to protect themselves. A major terrorist attack in the U.S. will only serve to further secure their hold on power. They will grab for all the "emergency powers" they can get their hands on; martial law, outlawing all dissent, cancelled elections.

I'm MUCH more afraid of our government in the hands of bushco, than I am of terrorists -- and that's the truth.

sw
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mom-mad-about-bush Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
44. me too!
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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #24
63. No. Fear is the only thing that our government uses to keep the
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:47 AM by Dem2theMax
masses in line. "Masses" meaning repukes and all others who fall for it. "In line" means VOTE FOR *. :puke:

If OBL wants to bomb us, he will and * will let him. OBL bombing us means more $$$$ for * and his cabal in the long run. You actually think * CARES about US? hahahaha.

Edited to add: If OBL does what he says he is going to do, I just pray for a direct hit. I'm not going to live in fear of him.
* on the other hand scares the crap out of me.
He's turing MY country into Hitler's Germany. And for that, I weep.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. He has no reason to lie. We are playing into his hands
because we do not take what he says as the truth. We dismiss him as a common crook. You need to read "Imperial Hubris" if you haven't already.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
49. We ARE scared...of the terrorists in the WH. OBL has probably been dead
since 2001...why are you afraid of a dead man. He was on dialysis for God's sake in the mountains...THINK already!

The odds of one of these guys attacking you is astronomical. The odds of Bush destroying your life is far greater.

Grow up already! Why are you such a whimpering wimp??
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. No, he is still alive. His last tape spoke of Bush and Kerry
and our elections.

What bush doesn't want you to know is WHY bin Laden is doing what he is doing. It is not because he "hates our freedoms."
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
65. Why be scared? I'm more concerned with junior and his policies
than I'm with Osama bin Laden.

People can't live in a state of fear and remain sane. Perhaps you should seek some counseling?
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I don't recall OBL's threat being specific about "red" states.
He was speaking about ALL the U.S. He also said that it didn't make any difference whether it was Bush or Kerry, it was U.S. POLICY that we would be called to account for.

What's to be up in arms about? If it happens, it happens. Then we'll know the Dept. of Homeland Security didn't mean sh*t. There's nothing WE can do at this point, short of a mass revolution in the streets demanding a complete pull-out of all U.S. military operations throughout the entire Muslim world, AND an end to support for Israel.

Maybe bush will get lucky and capture or kill OBL, but I doubt that would stop an already planned massive attack from going forward -- his cohorts would surely want to carry it off in his honor.

sw
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mom-mad-about-bush Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. The updated interpretation of bin Laden video said that
bin Laden was saying that any state (not state as in nation, state as in state) that did not elect Bush would be safe from him. So....the red state should be at risk if this is true.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Thanks. Do you happen to have a link for the updated interpretation
that you're referring to? If not, no problem, I'll look around for a recent transcript -- I just know that there have been varying translations.

As far as I'm concerned, we've been f**ked ever since the election was stolen in 2000. One way or another, it's only going to get worse -- whether it's a terrorist attack or economic collapse, we're in for it.

sw

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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #25
64. Here. An unedited translation from aljazeera.
Full transcript of bin Ladin's speech.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A...
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #64
74. Thank you.
I've read the whole thing. It's pretty clear to me that his use of the word "state" refers to the entire country, not to "red" states.

Kind of a strange rambling speech, though I'm wondering if some of that is due to inelegant translation of certain Arabic idioms.

Thanks again -- was going to do a search for a transcript but hadn't gotten around to it.

sw
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Oh yeah I'm gonna trust Osma Bin Laden
Bin Laden will hit wherever he can do the most damage and kill the most people. I doubt if the political leanings of the majority of the inhabitents of a state are going to have anything to with it.

On the other hand I'm sitting here in New Jersey so maybe that hit the red states thing may not be so bad.
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sonicx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. a RW website did that translation...
FOX and WashTimes ran with it.
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. How do you know it was state as in state, and not a nation?
I haven't seen anything to suggest that. He hates us and doesn't give a shit who we vote for.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
62. He didn't say "has"...
...just that he thought it was so likely that OBL would acquire one that it's almost a sure thing.
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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
69. Probably got it from his buddies in Pakistan.
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lizzie Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks for the heads up
I can watch it West Coast time, have been wanting to hear from him.

Unfortunately I am watching a post election focus group on C-Span.
I started because I like Peter Hart who does these but the people he is interviewing that supported Bush are infuriating! The Kerry people seem to know the issues but the anti-Kerry comments are sickening. O'Neil and Rove did their job!

On why Kerry lost...I'd like to share this...one woman who is a conservative but voted for Kerry said that after everyone in their household had voted her son got home from work. A phone call came for him almost immediately from the Repubs, asking for him specifically. They told him that it wasn't too late to vote and that the president would appreciate his support. She was saying they were very organized. That sounds a lot more than ORGANIZED to me! What, they spy on people??? Very weird!
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
59. They "monitor" the voter sign-in logs
then call the people who are listed, but have not yet voted.. :(

they ARE very organized.. :(
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
70. the Dem's did that in my precinct.
I'm a poll worker in my precinct for the Democrats. Each party is entitled to ONE poll watcher in each precinct. The poll workers have to read each person's name out loud when they vote. The poll watcher crosses them off of their list then in mid afternoon they start calling their party's supporters that haven't voted yet. The Republicans obviously had your friend's son on their list of republican voters. it's not spying, it's how "get out the vote" efforts work.
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Blue Gardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. I don't trust this guy
Nothing really specific, just a feeling he was on 60 Minutes to toot his own horn. He was not very complimentary of Richard Clarke, who I think is much more believable.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. I don't know. Obviously he and Clarke are NOT best buds.
Clarke has criticized Scheuer, too, so I guess they're even.

In any case, there's no reason not to think that BOTH of them are each trying to make themselves look good and covering their respective a**es.

sw
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. Yeah.
Maybe it was just the way it was edited...my spidey senses picked up on that as well.
I still don't really undrstatnd the bad blood between him and Clarke.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well, that certainly WAS interesting!
In case you hadn't already heard, Osama Bin Laden has officially been given clerical "permission" (a fatwa) to nuke the U.S. A Saudi sheik wrote up a several-page treatise back in May 2003, justifying the killing of millions of Americans as retribution for the millions of Muslim deaths attributable to U.S. actions and policies.

Mr. Scheuer stated that he has no doubt that a WMD attack of some sort inside the U.S. -- most likely nuclear -- is all but inevitable. As to the nature of the nuclear attack, he said it wasn't known whether it would be an actual nuclear bomb, a "dirty" bomb, or some other sort of radiological event. (bomb a nuclear power plant?)

The interviewer asked him how he knew this, and Scheuer replied that it's because OBL ALWAYS says exactly what he intends to do. Scheuer said that OBL was criticized by the Muslim clerics for doing 9/11 without giving a warning ahead of time. Therefore, OBL got his fatwa and IS warning us now.

I wish the interview had been much longer.

sw
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CountDmoney Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Scared the shit out of me man. I'm in NYC and
feel like a human shield for the red states already. Someone convince me otherwise.
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sherilocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I keep a supply of pills
that you are supposed to take in case of an attack to counter effects of radiation. Just one of those impulse buys that I DON'T regret after watching that show.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Probably not a bad idea.
It's some kind of iodine, right?

sw
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sherilocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Right
Iodine pills.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Thanks (n/t)
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LaReservaPr Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. Just in case
IOSAT Potassium Iodide is the only brand tested and approved by the FDA for radiation emergencies.

Just saw this on the internet. Thought you should know.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Thanks. I was going to look it up on the internets...
;-)

sw
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sherilocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #32
47. Thanks for the infor
I'll check out the brand. I got them from a natural food store in Gainesville, FL.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. I know. I thought it could have
gone longer myself. Since I think now that Bin Laden is on the payroll, I don't know what to make of this.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Well, look at it this way....
You know how many goodies bushco got out of 9/11? Think how many more are waiting in the wings if there's another big attack.

Duhbya would love a dictatorship, this would be a convenient way to make his dream come true, right?

sw
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lizzie Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
39. I heard this being discussed on a radio show on Friday
when I was in my car, it was the first I had heard of OBL getting "permission" to nuke us. Then suddenly they cut off the discussion because the Scott Peterson verdict was coming in. Rest of the day was Peterson. I couldn't believe it...what priorities!
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Well, you know -- SOME things are REALLY important!
If you missed 60 Minutes, I think they put up transcripts and/or web video later in the week.

sw
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
37. Isn't this whole business a BACK STORY for the future "9/11"?
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 08:16 PM by beam_me_up
First of all, I'm on the west coast so haven't seen this yet. I'm going to break my general vow of not watching TV just for this.

IN THE MEAN TIME: I confess to being completely MIHOP (for the newBs, one who believes that elements within the National Security State were involved directly in the events of 9/11--Made It Happen On Purpose). Although I believe "terrorists" are something to be somewhat concerned about, the REAL issue is our foreign policy as it is driven by Wall Street greed. THAT is what makes other people want to harm us.

But I digress. I am convinced that PNAC fascists want a tactical nuclear war in the Middle East. I am also convinced that to further pursue their Middle East (and ultimately South American) agenda, they MUST INSTITUTE A DRAFT.

As things stand now, a DRAFT would be damned unpopular with all the soccer moms and naz-car dads who have little interest in sending darlings Hether and Ian off to fight and die for Halliburton and Carlyle (to name but a few).

HOWEVER a relatively small nuclear detonation (oh, say, with a death toll of something like half a million) coupled with 24/7 coverage of the carnage would so SHOCK these poor folks (not to mention the world) that the PNAC group would finally have everything they want: the draft and an excuse for tactical nuclear war in the ME.

I'll even get a bit more specific. I believe it is quite likely that this event will take place in California (my state), despite whatever Osama is purported to have said--specifically to make THE GROPENATOR look presidential. (He'll get to ride around in a hellocopter looking all in command and stuff.)

NOW, I thoroughly admit that this is nothing but my SPECULATION and may have no merit what so ever. HOWEVER, I repeat it often on this board because I believe that making such suspicions public DECREASES the likelihood that it will happen. Wishful thinking, probably, but hey. In any case, if something like this DOES happen, everyone should question.

Question everything. Where did the "terrorists" come from? WHO funds them? HOW did Sadam acquire all those WMD? WHAT ever happened to the ANTHRAX killer? WHY did Mohammad Atta eat pork chops and snort coke and have a stripper girl friend? --What we are dealing with here, folks, are BLACK OP SPECIAL AGENTS; and some of them are working for the National Security State (above military top secret level).

Everyone needs to understand that there is a picture that is MUCH BIGGER than the "terrorist" threat--which could be handled fairly easily if we modified our policies of greed. Baring that, Osama is NECESSARY to enable US Imperial Hegemony.

Edit to add:

A 'back story' is what is used to 'make sense' of an otherwise inexplicable event. The events of 9/11 are 'inexplicable' without the already established boogie man of 'fundamentalist terrorists' and 'Osama'. We'd already been told there WOULD be a terrorist attack of major proportions on US soil. When 9/11 happened, THAT was the explanation given, complete with patsy 'fundamentalist terrorists' who eat pork chops and snort coke. What is NEVER ever talked about, MUCH LESS EXPLAINED, is WHY the bag man for the 9/11 'terrorists,' a General and head of the Pakistani ISI (CIA) (Mahmoud Ahmad) was having breakfast with the heads of the Senate and House Intelligence committees ON THE VERY MORNING OF 9/11. One of those being PORTER GOSS WHO, AS THE NEWLY APPOINTED HEAD OF THE CIA, IS CURRENTLY INVOLVED IN THE PURGE WHICH INCLUDES INTERVIEWEE MICHAEL SCHEUR.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. I do believe you've nailed it.
I'm a MIHOPer myself, have been from day one. So your scenario makes total sense to me.

The overlords have been softening us up for a "major terrorist attack" for quite some time now. How NOT surprising that the plot is thickening now that Dear Leader has "won" the election.

sw
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Our fate and the fate of the world lies directly before us.
This isn't going to be a re-make of WW II folks.

Either HUMANITY as a whole comes together to STAUNCH THE SOURCE OF FASCISM or we all come quickly to not.

We need to really understand that THE RISE OF HITLER WAS FUNDED BY WALL STREET ELITES. Moreover, after the end of that war, much of the "intelligence apparatus" of the Nazis was "paperclipped" into the US. THE CIA IS A CREATION OF WALL STREET BANKERS AND LAWYERS.

Does that mean that all within the CIA are fascists? No--at least I believe not. I believe there are some people who truly believe that the Constitution of the United States is an inspired document worthy of risking one's life for. And I believe they understand that the actual workings of society are such that one must constantly be working to BUILD Democracy, not assume that it is a given.

However, that said, there is within the system itself another, far more sinister force. It does not understand what WEALTH is and imprudently mistakes LUCRE for it.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Well, it's a long term war, and we just lost the most recent battle.
Of course, it was just a battle for holding ground -- a Kerry win wouldn't have been a full reversal, just a staking out of a little territory on which to map our strategy.

Fascinating times to live in, eh?

sw
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. "Fascinating times to live in, eh?"
While it's a curse to live in Interesting Times, ya gotta admit, at least they are interesting.

It's probably going to kill us all, but no one will be able to say they were bored to death.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Fascinating times in deed.
Where can we go from here?

I have only one idea and that is a widely mirrored web based relational database of names of all the major players, their positions, their connections and, most importantly, there whereabouts.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #37
52. Didn't Jeb sneer at SF awhile back, saying they were already 'extinct'?
Don't have a link for it, but I'll never forget it.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Yes, that is correct. n/t
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__Inanna__ Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. Ok, here we go
here is the link...

http://cbs5.com/news/local/2003/11/13/Florida_Governor_...

This is the same governor who declared Florida under martial law, on 9/7/2001. I don't know what that means.
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__Inanna__ Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
53. you are right, beam me up
and it's the ONLY thing that makes sense, if you really stop to think about it. I think tonight was a prelude of what's yet to come (first step is instilling fear,(not that I am implying anything against Scheuer) warning the public, then it happens, then we move to martial law).

Am I crazy, or does anyone else not buy into this whole Bushco-OBL deal? I mean, doesn't anyone find the relationships rather cozy? Doesn't anyone think it's strange that the whole OBL family were the only ones to fly over our airspace on 9/12/01? Doesn't the FBI usually detain and question friends and family in a murder situation rather than letting them jet off? (And, of course, they had to land in at least 3 US cities to pick up more folks in the process).

I would swear I was losing my mind, if the pieces didn't fit together so well. If anyone thinks I am, please advise :-) thanks
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Well, if you are crazy, you are in the right loony bin.
A lot of people here see the same connections.

Welcome to DU.
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__Inanna__ Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. thanks
it is my mission to get the word out, but I have discovered I must be selective. I tried to reach my VERY republican mother tonight, who ended up telling me I need a Dr. (i.e. p-shrink). (She hasn't seen it on Fauxnews, therefore does not compute). I know we are onto something, but no one wants to believe it, because the implications are rather horrific. Appreciate the welcome.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #37
61. You should read Michael's books
especially his second one, "Imperial Hubris." It might not change your mind at all, but it might expand on some of your beliefs. Scheuer is not playing a game; he knows more about Usama bin Laden than any other person in the US government. The person he writes about is far more in line with the person we saw on the 10-29 film clip, effectively winning votes for Bush.

I agree that things are far more complicated than they appear .... but I think that the administration is far less "in control" than many might think. I'd be curious what you would make of Michael's books.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #61
68. In his book is he telling us what is REALLY going on?
How can we have an intelligent discussion about the 'Osama Threat' without a discussion about Saudi Royals and their relationship to the US economy and particularly to the Bush family--or about Peak Oil and the fact that China and Russia are both far closer to the Caspian basin than Wall Street? Does he place those dots on his map or does he leave them off the map altogether?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. He gives a very honest opinion of what
the relationship between bin Laden, his family, the Saudi "royal" family, and the United States. My guess is that most people know that China and Russia are on a different side of the earth than the United States. His books appeal to rational thought.
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Thoth Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #37
66. Yes, and then there will be a clamor to amend the constitution to allow...
Arnold to run as president. He must appear a hero in California for this to occur. If he save a few thousand lives in the next staged "terror" attack he'll be wildly popular, not only in CA but across the US.

We are in the run-up to full blown fascism, but it won't be quite 100% here until a popular "leader" (furher) arises that mobilizes the masses like Hitler did in Germany. THAT will be Arnold's role. I'd advise that IF the first parts of this scenario unfolds, it will be high time to get out of America before its too late.

You heard it here second!
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. That is what I have been thinking. Just imagine that...
the attack (GOD FORBID) occured in San Fransisco, who will the "Hero" be? Who was the "Hero" in New York City on 9/11, MAYOR RUDY GIULLIANI! Now, who should be the proper "Hero" in this horrible case (GOD FORBID), MAYOR GAVIN NEWSOM! But NO, the LIBRUL media will make the Republican Ahhnuld Gropenhitler the "Hero".

:scared:
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
71. Thanks for Posting this SW-
I watched it last night and honestly,
I couldn't sleep very well.
Everything this guy said fits with
what someone else I know is saying.
The fact that Bin Laden has followed the
directions given him by the Clerics, including
a warning before a strike, does not bode well.

Unfortunately, the fact is, there are
probably plenty of people on the planet
who would say to themselves,
"Good, they got what they deserved, those arrogant Americans..."
Four years ago the world offered us their deepest sympathies,
now they are reviled by us, and probably would secretly cheer
such a thing happening to us.
Thanks George.

We are NOT safer, quite the opposite.
BHN

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
73. Kicking this thread
Because it IS important.
bhn
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