Are you watching 60 Minutes? "Anonymous", retired CIA OBL expert on now

[scarletwoman]

This could be interesting...

[smbolisnch]

1. Just tuned in...

Should be interesting to see what he has to say.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

5. They seemed to ignore any specifics about how W ignored the problem

[davekriss]

31. Just an exercise of "Limited Hang"

That's all Scheuer's book is ("Imperial Hubris"). I too noted that blame was carefully placed on three people, all vestiges of the Clinton administration: Clark, Tenet, and I've forgotten the third. How convenient!!! Not a peep about Conda-lie-za, Darth Cheney, Rummy, The Wolf, nor Gee Dubya. I'm sure some truth is revealed in Hubris, but I'm also sure that this is an exercise in the limited hang.

(Definition: "The Limited Hang" -- put enough truth out there to sate curious appetites, but be sure to settle accountability on some mid-level or expendable officials, and thereby displace attention from those who truly are accountable.)

[scarletwoman]

38. Great observation.

Btw, I thought the term was "limited hangOUT" -- but your point is well-taken in any case.

I haven't read his book, so I don't have that to judge by. I did listen to an NPR interview with him back when the book first came out. He struck me as a real heavy duty rightwinger -- he seemed to have a "bomb them all, let Allah sort it out" kind of mindset.

I decided then that he probably WASN'T going to be one my personal whistleblower heroes.

sw

[davekriss]

41. Oops

Yes, it is "limited hang-out", you are correct.

Does anyone recall the third person Sheuer/60 Minutes flashed blame to -- it was Tenet, Clarke, and ...?

[scarletwoman]

43. Nope, sorry.

Was it a Clinton D.O.D. official by any chance?

[mountainvue]

50. Tenet. n/t

[shawn703]

2. Is he the one that's critical of how OBL has been handled? n/t

[scarletwoman]

4. Yes. He's the author of "Imperial Hubris" (as 'anonymous')

His name is Michael Scheuer, and he's still forbidden from directly acknowledging that he's "anonymous", but it's really well-established that that's who he is.

sw

[TomClash]

6. An excellent book

[H2O Man]

60. Michael also wrote

"Through Our Enemies' Eyes." People who are interested in the conflict between Halliburton and the Muslim world should read both of his books. They are vital to understanding the full scope of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the dangerous road that Bush/Cheney is leading our nation -- and the world -- down at this time.

[cornermouse]

3. Great.

We're over there in Fallujah justifying bin Laden's future attack.

[TomClash]

7. Basically he says bin Laden has a nuke or dirty bomb . . .

and he will use it in the US

[RawMaterials]

8. great forshadowing

now we wont have to worry about who won the election becuase were all scared about osama bin landen

[mom-mad-about-bush]

11. Why aren't more people up in arms about this???

This is the second or third time I have heard that bin Laden is going to attack us with a dirty bomb. I even heard earlier today that they believe nuke material has been or could be brought into this country via Mexico. Does anyone think this is not possible???? Why aren't more people scared about this???? Haven't we learned anything from 9/11???? Bin Laden's threat before the elction was that states supporting Bush would be at risk...that is the RED STATES!!!!

[cornermouse]

14. I live in a red state. Perhaps its time to move...

[mom-mad-about-bush]

18. That's only if you can beleive bin Laden????

Can you really believe that you are safe in a blue state just because bin Laden said??? Probably not. I wish I could feel safe in my blue state....but if he wants to kill millions the blue states are the highly populated states also. I don't think anyone in this country should feel safe....lets face it....how are we safer from bin Laden since 9/11? We are not safer....just saying your not scared or not going to let the terrorist think your scared isn't going to make us safer. Just like fighting a war in Iraq is not making us safer. What if something does happen here??? I wish people were scared. I wish our government was scared...maybe they would do something to protect us. BUT....WHY AREN'T PEOPLE SCARED???? I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW. WHY ARE PEOPLE NOT SCARED? Doesn't all the evidence prove that we should be?

[scarletwoman]

21. What good does being scared do?

No matter what, we're all still many, many, many times more likely to die in a car accident than in a terrorist attack. I don't spend my life being terrified about getting a car, I'm certainly not going live my life scared of OBL.

Fear is the mind killer...

sw

[mom-mad-about-bush]

24. FEAR IS THE ONLY THINK THAT WILL MAKE OUR GOVERNMENT

PROTECT US. Are we really going to ignore the threat just for a mind game?

[scarletwoman]

27. I'm sorry. Please understand that I'm totally cynical about our govm'nt.

I don't believe for a moment that Bush, inc. has any sincere interest in protecting us. They are only out to protect themselves. A major terrorist attack in the U.S. will only serve to further secure their hold on power. They will grab for all the "emergency powers" they can get their hands on; martial law, outlawing all dissent, cancelled elections.

I'm MUCH more afraid of our government in the hands of bushco, than I am of terrorists -- and that's the truth.

sw

[mom-mad-about-bush]

44. me too!

[Dem2theMax]

63. No. Fear is the only thing that our government uses to keep the

masses in line. "Masses" meaning repukes and all others who fall for it. "In line" means VOTE FOR *.

If OBL wants to bomb us, he will and * will let him. OBL bombing us means more $$$$ for * and his cabal in the long run. You actually think * CARES about US? hahahaha.

Edited to add: If OBL does what he says he is going to do, I just pray for a direct hit. I'm not going to live in fear of him.
* on the other hand scares the crap out of me.
He's turing MY country into Hitler's Germany. And for that, I weep.

[alfredo]

28. He has no reason to lie. We are playing into his hands

because we do not take what he says as the truth. We dismiss him as a common crook. You need to read "Imperial Hubris" if you haven't already.

[leesa]

49. We ARE scared...of the terrorists in the WH. OBL has probably been dead

since 2001...why are you afraid of a dead man. He was on dialysis for God's sake in the mountains...THINK already!

The odds of one of these guys attacking you is astronomical. The odds of Bush destroying your life is far greater.

Grow up already! Why are you such a whimpering wimp??

[alfredo]

55. No, he is still alive. His last tape spoke of Bush and Kerry

and our elections.

What bush doesn't want you to know is WHY bin Laden is doing what he is doing. It is not because he "hates our freedoms."

[0007]

65. Why be scared? I'm more concerned with junior and his policies

than I'm with Osama bin Laden.

People can't live in a state of fear and remain sane. Perhaps you should seek some counseling?

[scarletwoman]

17. I don't recall OBL's threat being specific about "red" states.

He was speaking about ALL the U.S. He also said that it didn't make any difference whether it was Bush or Kerry, it was U.S. POLICY that we would be called to account for.

What's to be up in arms about? If it happens, it happens. Then we'll know the Dept. of Homeland Security didn't mean sh*t. There's nothing WE can do at this point, short of a mass revolution in the streets demanding a complete pull-out of all U.S. military operations throughout the entire Muslim world, AND an end to support for Israel.

Maybe bush will get lucky and capture or kill OBL, but I doubt that would stop an already planned massive attack from going forward -- his cohorts would surely want to carry it off in his honor.

sw

[mom-mad-about-bush]

22. The updated interpretation of bin Laden video said that

bin Laden was saying that any state (not state as in nation, state as in state) that did not elect Bush would be safe from him. So....the red state should be at risk if this is true.

[scarletwoman]

25. Thanks. Do you happen to have a link for the updated interpretation

that you're referring to? If not, no problem, I'll look around for a recent transcript -- I just know that there have been varying translations.

As far as I'm concerned, we've been f**ked ever since the election was stolen in 2000. One way or another, it's only going to get worse -- whether it's a terrorist attack or economic collapse, we're in for it.

sw

[Dem2theMax]

64. Here. An unedited translation from aljazeera.

Full transcript of bin Ladin's speech.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A...

[scarletwoman]

74. Thank you.

I've read the whole thing. It's pretty clear to me that his use of the word "state" refers to the entire country, not to "red" states.

Kind of a strange rambling speech, though I'm wondering if some of that is due to inelegant translation of certain Arabic idioms.

Thanks again -- was going to do a search for a transcript but hadn't gotten around to it.

sw

[bklyncowgirl]

26. Oh yeah I'm gonna trust Osma Bin Laden

Bin Laden will hit wherever he can do the most damage and kill the most people. I doubt if the political leanings of the majority of the inhabitents of a state are going to have anything to with it.

On the other hand I'm sitting here in New Jersey so maybe that hit the red states thing may not be so bad.

[sonicx]

29. a RW website did that translation...

FOX and WashTimes ran with it.

[high density]

34. How do you know it was state as in state, and not a nation?

I haven't seen anything to suggest that. He hates us and doesn't give a shit who we vote for.

[JHB]

62. He didn't say "has"...

...just that he thought it was so likely that OBL would acquire one that it's almost a sure thing.

[dkofos]

69. Probably got it from his buddies in Pakistan.

[lizzie]

9. Thanks for the heads up

I can watch it West Coast time, have been wanting to hear from him.

Unfortunately I am watching a post election focus group on C-Span.
I started because I like Peter Hart who does these but the people he is interviewing that supported Bush are infuriating! The Kerry people seem to know the issues but the anti-Kerry comments are sickening. O'Neil and Rove did their job!

On why Kerry lost...I'd like to share this...one woman who is a conservative but voted for Kerry said that after everyone in their household had voted her son got home from work. A phone call came for him almost immediately from the Repubs, asking for him specifically. They told him that it wasn't too late to vote and that the president would appreciate his support. She was saying they were very organized. That sounds a lot more than ORGANIZED to me! What, they spy on people??? Very weird!

[SoCalDem]

59. They "monitor" the voter sign-in logs

then call the people who are listed, but have not yet voted..

they ARE very organized..

[WoodrowFan]

70. the Dem's did that in my precinct.

I'm a poll worker in my precinct for the Democrats. Each party is entitled to ONE poll watcher in each precinct. The poll workers have to read each person's name out loud when they vote. The poll watcher crosses them off of their list then in mid afternoon they start calling their party's supporters that haven't voted yet. The Republicans obviously had your friend's son on their list of republican voters. it's not spying, it's how "get out the vote" efforts work.

[Blue Gardener]

10. I don't trust this guy

Nothing really specific, just a feeling he was on 60 Minutes to toot his own horn. He was not very complimentary of Richard Clarke, who I think is much more believable.

[scarletwoman]

15. I don't know. Obviously he and Clarke are NOT best buds.

Clarke has criticized Scheuer, too, so I guess they're even.

In any case, there's no reason not to think that BOTH of them are each trying to make themselves look good and covering their respective a**es.

sw

[mountainvue]

30. Yeah.

Maybe it was just the way it was edited...my spidey senses picked up on that as well.
I still don't really undrstatnd the bad blood between him and Clarke.

[scarletwoman]

12. Well, that certainly WAS interesting!

In case you hadn't already heard, Osama Bin Laden has officially been given clerical "permission" (a fatwa) to nuke the U.S. A Saudi sheik wrote up a several-page treatise back in May 2003, justifying the killing of millions of Americans as retribution for the millions of Muslim deaths attributable to U.S. actions and policies.

Mr. Scheuer stated that he has no doubt that a WMD attack of some sort inside the U.S. -- most likely nuclear -- is all but inevitable. As to the nature of the nuclear attack, he said it wasn't known whether it would be an actual nuclear bomb, a "dirty" bomb, or some other sort of radiological event. (bomb a nuclear power plant?)

The interviewer asked him how he knew this, and Scheuer replied that it's because OBL ALWAYS says exactly what he intends to do. Scheuer said that OBL was criticized by the Muslim clerics for doing 9/11 without giving a warning ahead of time. Therefore, OBL got his fatwa and IS warning us now.

I wish the interview had been much longer.

sw

[CountDmoney]

13. Scared the shit out of me man. I'm in NYC and

feel like a human shield for the red states already. Someone convince me otherwise.

[sherilocks]

16. I keep a supply of pills

that you are supposed to take in case of an attack to counter effects of radiation. Just one of those impulse buys that I DON'T regret after watching that show.

[scarletwoman]

19. Probably not a bad idea.

It's some kind of iodine, right?

sw

[sherilocks]

20. Right

Iodine pills.

[scarletwoman]

23. Thanks (n/t)

[LaReservaPr]

32. Just in case

IOSAT™ Potassium Iodide is the only brand tested and approved by the FDA for radiation emergencies.

Just saw this on the internet. Thought you should know.

[scarletwoman]

35. Thanks. I was going to look it up on the internets...

sw

[sherilocks]

47. Thanks for the infor

I'll check out the brand. I got them from a natural food store in Gainesville, FL.

[mountainvue]

33. I know. I thought it could have

gone longer myself. Since I think now that Bin Laden is on the payroll, I don't know what to make of this.

[scarletwoman]

36. Well, look at it this way....

You know how many goodies bushco got out of 9/11? Think how many more are waiting in the wings if there's another big attack.

Duhbya would love a dictatorship, this would be a convenient way to make his dream come true, right?

sw

[lizzie]

39. I heard this being discussed on a radio show on Friday

when I was in my car, it was the first I had heard of OBL getting "permission" to nuke us. Then suddenly they cut off the discussion because the Scott Peterson verdict was coming in. Rest of the day was Peterson. I couldn't believe it...what priorities!

[scarletwoman]

42. Well, you know -- SOME things are REALLY important!

If you missed 60 Minutes, I think they put up transcripts and/or web video later in the week.

sw

[Beam Me Up]

37. Isn't this whole business a BACK STORY for the future "9/11"?

First of all, I'm on the west coast so haven't seen this yet. I'm going to break my general vow of not watching TV just for this.

IN THE MEAN TIME: I confess to being completely MIHOP (for the newBs, one who believes that elements within the National Security State were involved directly in the events of 9/11--Made It Happen On Purpose). Although I believe "terrorists" are something to be somewhat concerned about, the REAL issue is our foreign policy as it is driven by Wall Street greed. THAT is what makes other people want to harm us.

But I digress. I am convinced that PNAC fascists want a tactical nuclear war in the Middle East. I am also convinced that to further pursue their Middle East (and ultimately South American) agenda, they MUST INSTITUTE A DRAFT.

As things stand now, a DRAFT would be damned unpopular with all the soccer moms and naz-car dads who have little interest in sending darlings Hether and Ian off to fight and die for Halliburton and Carlyle (to name but a few).

HOWEVER a relatively small nuclear detonation (oh, say, with a death toll of something like half a million) coupled with 24/7 coverage of the carnage would so SHOCK these poor folks (not to mention the world) that the PNAC group would finally have everything they want: the draft and an excuse for tactical nuclear war in the ME.

I'll even get a bit more specific. I believe it is quite likely that this event will take place in California (my state), despite whatever Osama is purported to have said--specifically to make THE GROPENATOR look presidential. (He'll get to ride around in a hellocopter looking all in command and stuff.)

NOW, I thoroughly admit that this is nothing but my SPECULATION and may have no merit what so ever. HOWEVER, I repeat it often on this board because I believe that making such suspicions public DECREASES the likelihood that it will happen. Wishful thinking, probably, but hey. In any case, if something like this DOES happen, everyone should question.

Question everything. Where did the "terrorists" come from? WHO funds them? HOW did Sadam acquire all those WMD? WHAT ever happened to the ANTHRAX killer? WHY did Mohammad Atta eat pork chops and snort coke and have a stripper girl friend? --What we are dealing with here, folks, are BLACK OP SPECIAL AGENTS; and some of them are working for the National Security State (above military top secret level).

Everyone needs to understand that there is a picture that is MUCH BIGGER than the "terrorist" threat--which could be handled fairly easily if we modified our policies of greed. Baring that, Osama is NECESSARY to enable US Imperial Hegemony.

Edit to add:

A 'back story' is what is used to 'make sense' of an otherwise inexplicable event. The events of 9/11 are 'inexplicable' without the already established boogie man of 'fundamentalist terrorists' and 'Osama'. We'd already been told there WOULD be a terrorist attack of major proportions on US soil. When 9/11 happened, THAT was the explanation given, complete with patsy 'fundamentalist terrorists' who eat pork chops and snort coke. What is NEVER ever talked about, MUCH LESS EXPLAINED, is WHY the bag man for the 9/11 'terrorists,' a General and head of the Pakistani ISI (CIA) (Mahmoud Ahmad) was having breakfast with the heads of the Senate and House Intelligence committees ON THE VERY MORNING OF 9/11. One of those being PORTER GOSS WHO, AS THE NEWLY APPOINTED HEAD OF THE CIA, IS CURRENTLY INVOLVED IN THE PURGE WHICH INCLUDES INTERVIEWEE MICHAEL SCHEUR.

[scarletwoman]

40. I do believe you've nailed it.

I'm a MIHOPer myself, have been from day one. So your scenario makes total sense to me.

The overlords have been softening us up for a "major terrorist attack" for quite some time now. How NOT surprising that the plot is thickening now that Dear Leader has "won" the election.

sw

[Beam Me Up]

45. Our fate and the fate of the world lies directly before us.

This isn't going to be a re-make of WW II folks.

Either HUMANITY as a whole comes together to STAUNCH THE SOURCE OF FASCISM or we all come quickly to not.

We need to really understand that THE RISE OF HITLER WAS FUNDED BY WALL STREET ELITES. Moreover, after the end of that war, much of the "intelligence apparatus" of the Nazis was "paperclipped" into the US. THE CIA IS A CREATION OF WALL STREET BANKERS AND LAWYERS.

Does that mean that all within the CIA are fascists? No--at least I believe not. I believe there are some people who truly believe that the Constitution of the United States is an inspired document worthy of risking one's life for. And I believe they understand that the actual workings of society are such that one must constantly be working to BUILD Democracy, not assume that it is a given.

However, that said, there is within the system itself another, far more sinister force. It does not understand what WEALTH is and imprudently mistakes LUCRE for it.

[scarletwoman]

46. Well, it's a long term war, and we just lost the most recent battle.

Of course, it was just a battle for holding ground -- a Kerry win wouldn't have been a full reversal, just a staking out of a little territory on which to map our strategy.

Fascinating times to live in, eh?

sw

[Minstrel Boy]

48. "Fascinating times to live in, eh?"

While it's a curse to live in Interesting Times, ya gotta admit, at least they are interesting.

It's probably going to kill us all, but no one will be able to say they were bored to death.

[Beam Me Up]

51. Fascinating times in deed.

Where can we go from here?

I have only one idea and that is a widely mirrored web based relational database of names of all the major players, their positions, their connections and, most importantly, there whereabouts.

[glitch]

52. Didn't Jeb sneer at SF awhile back, saying they were already 'extinct'?

Don't have a link for it, but I'll never forget it.

[Beam Me Up]

54. Yes, that is correct. n/t

[__Inanna__]

57. Ok, here we go

here is the link...

http://cbs5.com/news/local/2003/11/13/Florida_Governor_...

This is the same governor who declared Florida under martial law, on 9/7/2001. I don't know what that means.

[__Inanna__]

53. you are right, beam me up

and it's the ONLY thing that makes sense, if you really stop to think about it. I think tonight was a prelude of what's yet to come (first step is instilling fear,(not that I am implying anything against Scheuer) warning the public, then it happens, then we move to martial law).

Am I crazy, or does anyone else not buy into this whole Bushco-OBL deal? I mean, doesn't anyone find the relationships rather cozy? Doesn't anyone think it's strange that the whole OBL family were the only ones to fly over our airspace on 9/12/01? Doesn't the FBI usually detain and question friends and family in a murder situation rather than letting them jet off? (And, of course, they had to land in at least 3 US cities to pick up more folks in the process).

I would swear I was losing my mind, if the pieces didn't fit together so well. If anyone thinks I am, please advise thanks

[Beam Me Up]

56. Well, if you are crazy, you are in the right loony bin.

A lot of people here see the same connections.

Welcome to DU.

[__Inanna__]

58. thanks

it is my mission to get the word out, but I have discovered I must be selective. I tried to reach my VERY republican mother tonight, who ended up telling me I need a Dr. (i.e. p-shrink). (She hasn't seen it on Fauxnews, therefore does not compute). I know we are onto something, but no one wants to believe it, because the implications are rather horrific. Appreciate the welcome.

[H2O Man]

61. You should read Michael's books

especially his second one, "Imperial Hubris." It might not change your mind at all, but it might expand on some of your beliefs. Scheuer is not playing a game; he knows more about Usama bin Laden than any other person in the US government. The person he writes about is far more in line with the person we saw on the 10-29 film clip, effectively winning votes for Bush.

I agree that things are far more complicated than they appear .... but I think that the administration is far less "in control" than many might think. I'd be curious what you would make of Michael's books.

[Beam Me Up]

68. In his book is he telling us what is REALLY going on?

How can we have an intelligent discussion about the 'Osama Threat' without a discussion about Saudi Royals and their relationship to the US economy and particularly to the Bush family--or about Peak Oil and the fact that China and Russia are both far closer to the Caspian basin than Wall Street? Does he place those dots on his map or does he leave them off the map altogether?

[H2O Man]

72. He gives a very honest opinion of what

the relationship between bin Laden, his family, the Saudi "royal" family, and the United States. My guess is that most people know that China and Russia are on a different side of the earth than the United States. His books appeal to rational thought.

[Thoth]

66. Yes, and then there will be a clamor to amend the constitution to allow...

Arnold to run as president. He must appear a hero in California for this to occur. If he save a few thousand lives in the next staged "terror" attack he'll be wildly popular, not only in CA but across the US.

We are in the run-up to full blown fascism, but it won't be quite 100% here until a popular "leader" (furher) arises that mobilizes the masses like Hitler did in Germany. THAT will be Arnold's role. I'd advise that IF the first parts of this scenario unfolds, it will be high time to get out of America before its too late.

You heard it here second!

[PROGRESSIVE1]

67. That is what I have been thinking. Just imagine that...

the attack (GOD FORBID) occured in San Fransisco, who will the "Hero" be? Who was the "Hero" in New York City on 9/11, MAYOR RUDY GIULLIANI! Now, who should be the proper "Hero" in this horrible case (GOD FORBID), MAYOR GAVIN NEWSOM! But NO, the LIBRUL media will make the Republican Ahhnuld Gropenhitler the "Hero".

[BeHereNow]

71. Thanks for Posting this SW-

I watched it last night and honestly,
I couldn't sleep very well.
Everything this guy said fits with
what someone else I know is saying.
The fact that Bin Laden has followed the
directions given him by the Clerics, including
a warning before a strike, does not bode well.

Unfortunately, the fact is, there are
probably plenty of people on the planet
who would say to themselves,
"Good, they got what they deserved, those arrogant Americans..."
Four years ago the world offered us their deepest sympathies,
now they are reviled by us, and probably would secretly cheer
such a thing happening to us.
Thanks George.

We are NOT safer, quite the opposite.
BHN

[BeHereNow]

73. Kicking this thread

Because it IS important.
bhn