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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:25 PM
Original message
I was ignorant until I moved to the South
I had the Hollywood generality of Miss Scarlet and Butterfly McQueen's "I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no babies."

My Avatar (Mark Twain) was conceived in TN, and even fought in the Civil War (briefly, before he ran like a scalded dog after realizing the futility of the endeavor). He was also one of the first nationally recognized persons to promote Women's Suffrage, Equal Rights, and Anti Imperialism. He's the one who introduced Booker T. Washington and Helen Keller to audiences in New York.

Don't make me get into Southern Writers that you have had to study in any respectable lit. class, now.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Flannery O'Connor
Greatest Southern author EVER. :-)
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. A good man is heard to find.....
One of the best short stories better.

Millidgeville, GA
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dogtag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I like the sequel even better: A hard man is good to find!
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signmike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. It's hard to be good
But then, it HAS to hard to be good! ;-)
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lynintenn Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. It was a great short story
Since all of her stories had Christ figures in them. Who do you think was the Christ figure? Manly Pointer?
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Damn, It's been twenty years since I read the story.
The analogies left long ago but the effect and powe of the story stay until today....

I believe that was in her "All the Pale Horses" collection. I'm going to have to go back and read it.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. Surprisingly, I think that the grandmother was the Christ figure...
although The Misfit is one of my favorite characters in all of literature (he and I think A LOT alike)
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lynintenn Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. I liked The River
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Sleepysage Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. What does this have to do with anything?
I mean, I respect that you're trying to shore up some of the bias out there, but c'mon. On one side you have Twain and other notables, and the other you have... well, everything and everyone else. Is that a balanced scale?

This isn't to say that it's okay to overgeneralize about the South, but I'm in Indiana and I can honestly say people have every right to think Hoosiers are morons.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Take a look at the origins of the majority of what are considered.
You have Drieser and some really crappy poets. Drieser was an artist (as far as Sister Carie goes) Capote, Fitzgerald, Williams, a (transplanted) Hemmingway...

Come on.
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Sleepysage Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I see, so the South is like Wales and Ireland, now?
Despite evidence to the contrary, it's the source of everything good and wonderful in the world?

Good books v. Book burning
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Nooooo. It's just that we are not all Neanderthals....
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. some of my favs: Faulkner, Capote, Grisham,and DuBose
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 05:40 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Harper Lee, who wrote "To Kill a Mockingbird" grew up near Capote. n/t
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. opps forgot to add harper lee to my favs.....thanks
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Truman Capote WAS Dill.
And when he wrote In Cold Blood, she did a lot of the interviews in Kansas for him because it seems that the Jayhawkers were not eager to talk to Capote who was a bit ... perverse and eccentric.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. I didn't get your post...but maybe trying to rationalize it....
but read F. Scott Fitzgerald...if you really want to meld the difference between North and South. He had Southern "ZELDA" as the love of his life and she was all South.. whereas Scott was impoverished NE who got into Princeton...but ZELDA ruled his life in compliance or maddness...and if you are a "literary folk" then put that into the context of America today. Zelda = Maddness...Scott = NE Liberal Establishment with the Princeton Factor thrown in...

Do you understant what I'm trying to say here? PM me if you don't.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. LOL.... ***OUCh***
Dammit, Koko!


You're good! Sorry, I was thinking Faulkner.... You know, it's an "F" thing. :toast:


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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. I think you missed the original poster's point
It's not about literature. It's about the stereotype that all southerners are ignorant, racist, fundamentalist morons. The fact is the south is more conservative than some other parts of the country (namely the NE and west coast), but that does not mean that all southerners are conservative, nor that all southerners are stupid. I have been all over this country, and there are bubba types throughout. Anyone from Massachusetts can tell you that not everyone from that state is an intellectual. Not every person from California is a granola eating tree hugger, not every midwesterner is boring, nor is every southerner a big-haired bible thumper. It's all about sterotypes - which by the way I thought liberals were against - guess I just had my stereotype blown out of the water.

I happen to be a southerner with an advanced degree, who reads philosophy and history rather than novels, who has come to identify myself as a liberal Christian, but only after years of studying and practicing many religions including Paganism. I am a teacher and a writer. I was born in the south, and will most likely remain here, because my family is here, and family is important to me. I make no apologies for my southern drawl, or for my fondness of some southern traditions, like eating collard greens and black eyed peas on News Years Day. I eat peanut butter and banana sandwiches, drink sweet tea, and I eat grits. I think slavery was a blight that has cursed America to always have racial tension, and unfortunately, since the south hung on to slavery longer than most of the rest of the country (I say most because there were states that remained in the Union that kept their slaves even after the Emancipation Proclamation), race will always be an issue in the south. Still, we have come a long way, and race relations are better in parts of the south than in parts of the north, but we still have a long way to go. Do I like living around people who heavily support Bush? No, but, I've learned in my 40+ years that people do learn from their mistakes, and I trust history will tell the truth and people will learn. I am an optimist and I tend to see the best in people instead of the worst. For the record, I don't live in a trailer, I didn't marry my cousin, and I have ALL my teeth. I don't know anyone named "Daisy" unless dogs count. I don't own a pickup truck or a gun, and I have never eaten chitterlings or opposum. I do, however, speak 3 languages, drink good red wine, and like my oysters fried - that way I know my oysters died. Guess that about sums this southerner up.

All this to say I am sick to death of the southern bashing.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. But....Southern Literature was very RADICAL in it's day...and it did i
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 06:54 PM by KoKo01
indeed have it's DAY and only those of us who left the South based on our disenfranchisment can speak to what you say. I have great admiration for those who "stayed and fought" but you are very different from those of us who left the South because of the past support of our parents and grandparent and on...of the racism that we saw growing up...

And, the diffence is.....our MEMORIES of the South ...and who we are still connected to from our "heritage."

It's more complicated than many DU'ers from the other parts of the US understand...the flag and stuff..but living down our own history when folks in other areas of the US don't even think of dealing or having to deal with their own heritages. ...The fact that Southerners DO WANT TO DEAL...is interesting in and of itself. :shrug:
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. That's a big part of it - the singling out southerners to deal with
pasts that aren't too pretty. I mean, all areas of this country have a racist past, whether it was prejudice against blacks, Irish, Italians, Asians in the west - racism and prejudice are a part of American history. It's something we all need to work on. We can make things better, but we have to do it by being united in our cause.

I am a Democrat because I believe that we can have a better America. It saddens me greatly to see how people have turned on each other here looking for someone to blame. How can we ever hope to win if we turn on each other like wolves the minute we have a setback? We are on the same side. At least I thought we were. I want an America where no child goes to bed hungry at night. I want an America where people don't have to work 3 jobs just to keep a roof over their heads. I want a future where all children have the opportunity to go to college, and where families don't have to chose between food on the table and healthcare. I want an America where people mean more than money, and where people are not only tolerant of others and their beliefs, but are accepting and respectful of our differences. I want to be able to believe that my government is looking out for me and not just looking out for the corporate powers that keep their bellies fat. I want my children and all the children to be able to breath fresh air and drink clean water, and to be able to see the beauty in earth. Finally, I want a country where war is truly a last resort and where peace is valued. These are the things that united us before the election. These should still be what unites us. Our diversity should only make us stronger, as it brings different experiences and perspectives to the table to help us achieve our goals. No, we weren't successful this time, but to start throwing blame at different groups of people for this makes us no better than those we claim are so wrong, and in the end destroys any chance we have to see our dreams become a reality.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. Carson McCullers
and Eudora Welty. I live in Atlanta; I'm a damn Yankee (a Yankee who doesn't leave) -- grew up in Illinois. And I have very mixed feelings about my adopted state. I loathe the racism and rampant fundamental Christian small-mindedness. But I recognize it's unfair to tar the entire South. I prefer to dwell on Southerners like the named writers. And the wonderful Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
21. Pat Conroy, IMO, is one of our greatest living authors. And he donates
to Democrats.

The Prince of Tides is an awesome book about the South.

(It's too bad about the movie, I'm still not sure if the movie was based on the book or not)
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
22. Missing the point
some posters are missing the point in this thread. I appreciate the OP's point and courtsy to him. :bows:

The South is not just like other areas of the US; that's true. The South is, however, like other regions of the world that have experienced great tragedy.

It is great tragedy that spawns great art. The South has not only produced great literature, my speciality, but also great music: bluegrass, the blues, gospel, and rock n roll. And great theatre: A streetcar named desire, The Glass Menagerie, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.

We may fight til we bleed but we also pause to remember what that means.

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