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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:24 PM
Original message
Liberal Democrats, those disloyal to Bush being purged from CIA!
We are in deep Qaqaa, folks.

=====

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2900161

CIA purge may be in the works
New director allegedly was told to get rid of those disloyal to Bush


WASHINGTON - The White House has ordered the new CIA director, Porter Goss, to purge the agency of officers thought to have been disloyal to President Bush or of leaking damaging information to the media about the conduct of the war in Iraq and the hunt for Osama bin Laden, according to knowledgeable sources.

"The agency is being purged on instructions from the White House," said a former senior CIA official who maintains close ties to the agency and to the White House. "Goss was given instructions ... to get rid of those soft leakers and liberal Democrats. The CIA is looked on by the White House as a hotbed of liberals and people who have been obstructing the president's agenda."


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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. So, did they get the guy? How can finding one liberal be called a purge?
I kid.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. Any wonder why Dc went 90/10 Kerry?
Thing is, these guys aren't necessarily "liberal" ( I doubt you'd find too many self-identified liberals working at the CIA!), but they're professionals doing their job.

Their jobs, keeping America safe the best these life-long pros know how, just doesn't dovetail with the Bush ideology.

The purges have begun.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Man, that is some highly illegal bullshit!!!
Civil servants do not serve at political whim, so purging the CIA is grounds for impeachment.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. this is what I meant about
"strategy" Walt. Approving Goss was sighted over and over again here as the strategy the Dems needed to take to avoid being called obstructionist. I knew this would happen, and it has only just started. We tried to warn people. I made dozens of calls begging the Democrats in Congress to reject Goss.

Illegal? That means NOTHING these days!

Now we will see the same thing happen with Gonzales. Let me just say that the "strategy" the Dems have used has sold us down the river, and we will be lucky if we ever get our country back in one piece.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
67. amending my rant
as was pointed out below, if the purge orders are indeed coming from the WH, Goss himself is not the central issue here. Though someone with more integrity would probably not willingly create such a 'mess'. Of course we all know integrity would be a dis-qualifier in Bush's eyes.
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. There used to be something called the Hatch Act...
I didn't think you could fire a civil servant for political reasons if his job was not a political appointment.

This is starting to sound more and more like a third world dictatorship (like Zimbabwe) where the President starves the members of the opposition party. If this continues in the same direction, the land will be given to the Bush cronies and the people will be beaten and thrown in jail if they are not Bush supporters. All reporters will have to register with and clear their stories through the ministry of information.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. Yep, if they are purging political appointees, that's 100% legit
If they are purging rank and file, we've got their asses.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #28
41. So far from what I have read
the "purged" workers have all resigned. If they just "convince" them that resigning is the thing to do then it is perfectly legal, unfortunately.
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #41
63. resign or lose or your pension (NT)
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
50. ummmm...leaking sensitive information is....
normally seen as cause for dismissal.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #50
61. Then why is Bush still in office since he & his cronies were involved
with the Plame affair?
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #61
96. Good point!
Why hasn't norefill replied?
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
58. Republicans have been for years trying to change the laws for
civil servants. They wanted to fire them at will. Before then, they had protections which I'm now coming to understand are important if someone is going to be allowed to do their job objectively.
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Blue Wally Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
75. CIA is "excepted civil service"
While there are safeguards against firing, they can be fired a lot easier than the other civil servants. I think that the FBI is also "excepted civil service" as well as a few other agencies.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. cia already in trouble
not like looking out for the u.s. citizens once again. willing to cover their ass and get rid of experienced help and let all hte u.s. down cause of lack of experienced employees. fuck the citizens again
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phaseolus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. so tell me again -- why did we bother fighting the cold war??
...if we were just gonna turn into the mirror image of the old Soviet Union?

Loyalty to The State being the most important thing to the Bushies, all we need to complete the transformation will be long lines at all the stores, a 'Young Pioneers' -type organization to turn kids into compliant little republicans, and a Gulag.

um ...

*More* Gulags, I mean.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. That's why we fought the cold war. They were just competition for the
same ends.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
54. The "cold" war was a boon to the military manufacturing industry
The end of the "war" brought layoffs and lowered contracts.. Instead of figuring out a new product , they just saw to it that there would be endless "small wars"..

It's good for business.. :(

Sell weapons to all sides, and then sit back and wait for the re-orders to pour in :(..

Take fat profits and recycle through political donations for republicans who continue to start wars..

rinse & repeat :(
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #54
76. "shock and awe" is really just an inventory management tool
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Mike L Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
88. Reminds me of Stalin's purge of the Soviet military in 1935.
All of the best military leaders were purged, which left the USSR SOL at the start of WW II.

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MsConduct Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks for the info! I'm sure....
we're all gonna be 'purged' in one way or another. Can't have any
free thinkers, believing in free speech and human rights, running around unchecked. Yikes!


Peace
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. There won't be anyone left in the CIA................
if all they want is intelligent people who agrees with Bush's policies. No intelligent person would go along with his bullcrap, he's taking the country right down the shitter. How could you pledge loyalty to a madman? This country is REALLY starting to suck more than anything has ever sucked before.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Intelligent? Since when is that a prerequisite
for serving in the Bush administration.?
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
34. they are going around politicking and leaving our asses wide
open so OBL can ram a bomb or plane into it.

Nice going, idiots.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #34
81. and then blame it on Clinton. eom
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. Could someone clear this up for me?
...Is it Eastasia or Eurasia we're at war with because I'm just not sure anymore?
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asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. We've always been at war with Iraq.
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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. No...we're at war with Oceana. We have always been at war...
with Oceana.

Eurasia is planned for next week, silly!
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #36
55. I thought we were Oceania!
Hmm...I see what you mean.
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. The White House had better be careful what they wish for
They'd also better be careful about who they're messing with.

I think they'll end up regretting even thinking about purging the CIA of "disloyal" spooks. As a rule, you don't get away with pissing off the CIA; they play rough--and for keeps! No threat intended, just a warning to those who plan on rubbing spooks the wrong way.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Stalin purged the NKVD
and it didn't seem to hurt him any.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
66. Sadam purged the Baath Party as well. n/t
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LibeMatt Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
85. Actually, it did...
...if you're referring to the mid-30s purges of the Soviet intelligence and military apparatus (which ironically led to most of the original Communist revolutionaries being cast out if not killed). As a direct result, a few years later Hitler's Germany came within a few bad tactical and strategic decisions of doing what Napoleon and many others could not, that is, successfully invade and defeat Russia. To his credit, Stalin did have the foresight to park many of his competent but not-slavishly-loyal officers in Siberian gulags, from where they could be retrieved when they were needed to defeat the Nazis (amazing how politics lose importance when you're fighting an actual war of survival).
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. This might turn into a bigger fight than Bush has in mind. Somehow
messing with the agency that kills world leaders when they get in your way doesn't sound like a good plan. These are the people who really know who brought down the World Trade Center. These are the people that trained bin Ladin. I don't think Bush will win this one.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. folks were saying that about the 'outing'
of Valerie Plame.
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Stephanjnj Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Will they be publishing an official enemies list?
This can't really be happening, can it?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. Fitzgerald has been
continueing the grand jury investigation of the Plame leak. While it would have been nice if it had brought indictments in the summer, the fact that it is still in progress does not favor the administration at all.
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #30
43. Still waiting
We can wait long enough, Fitzgerald is going to come home with a nice full rack of trophies from this expedition.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
82. Perhaps they were withholding response until after the election?
No sense in going out on a limb and risking exposure if the target is going to be replaced. If * was voted out, all they'd have to do is make sure the right memos came to light to lock down the indictments.

We may see something yet, there. IMHO, Goss's appointment and these resignations are a pre-emptive strike attempting to prevent that from happening. This is only starting. The next few weeks could get real interesting.
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UNIXcock Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. Perhaps the motivation is partisan, but I believe ...
... the agency needed a good housecleaning. Look at the bad intelligence in the months preceding the Iraqi invasion - dismal failure. This is the same intel received on both sides of the aisle, both Republican and Democrats Senators and Congresscritters got bad info from the CIA, Time to change its diaper!
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. That was cooked intel by the Office of
Special Plans under Doug Feith.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. Simply not accurate.
you would do well to find out more about what information the administration received from the IC, and examine the history of Cheney pressuring CI.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
49. look at the good intelligence that was ignored by *
"Osama intent on attacking inside US" - title of dayly presidential briefing. The briefing specifically mentioned planes and skyscrapers.
Still * claimed they couldn't do anything to prevent it because they had no idea terrorists had such plans.

the neocons select only info that confirms - even if only remotely - their pre-conceived goals.

And then there's the Office of Special Plans:


CIA probe finds secret Pentagon group manipulated intelligence on Iraqi threat
By Jason Leopold - Online Journal
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/072503Leop...

July 25, 2003-A half-dozen former CIA agents investigating prewar intelligence have found that a secret Pentagon committee, set up by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in October 2001, manipulated reams of intelligence information prepared by the spy agency on the so-called Iraqi threat and then delivered it to top White House officials who used it to win support for a war in Iraq.

The former CIA agents were asked to examine prewar intelligence last year by Rumsfeld and CIA Director George Tenet. The former agents will present a final report on their findings to the Pentagon, the CIA and possibly Congress later this year. More than a dozen calls to the White House, the CIA, the National Security Council and the Pentagon for comment were not returned.

The ad hoc committee, called the Office of Special Plans, headed by Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith and other Pentagon hawks, described the worst-case scenarios in terms of Iraq's alleged stockpile of chemical and biological weapons and claimed the country was close to acquiring nuclear weapons, according to four of the CIA agents, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the information is still classified, who conducted a preliminary review of the intelligence. ---

More than a dozen CIA agents responsible for writing intelligence reports for the agency told the former CIA agents investigating the accuracy of the intelligence reports they were pressured by the Pentagon and the Office of Special Plans to hype and exaggerate intelligence to show Iraq as being an imminent threat to the security of the U.S. ---

========

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/1629064.php

Vincent Cannistrano, who worked for the CIA for 27 years, told the National Journal last month that the OSP "incorporated a lot of debatable intelligence, and it was not coordinated with the intelligence community."

========

http://www.sundayherald.com/print34491
Sources in both the British and US intelligence community are now equating the JIC with the Office of Special Plans (OSP) in the US Pentagon. The OSP was set up by Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to gather intelligence which would prove the case for war. In a staggering attack on the OSP, former CIA officer Larry Johnson told the Sunday Herald the OSP was 'dangerous for US national security and a threat to world peace', adding that it 'lied and manipulated intelligence to further its agenda of removing Saddam'.
He added: 'It's a group of ideologues with pre-determined notions of truth and reality. They take bits of intelligence to support their agenda and ignore anything contrary. They should be eliminated.'

========

OSP became operational 10-11

========
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
71. wow. do you honestly believe we invaded Iraq due to faulty intel?
step away from the koolaid. You may have drunk too much already.
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ilovenicepeople Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #71
98. Thats the same "faulty intel" that produced the OBL memo
pre-emptivly tieing him to 911 right? :tinfoilhat: :shrug: :tinfoilhat:
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
72. the intelligence they gave was sound and qualified with uncertainty
the problem was how this intel was selectively used to make their case for invasion of iraq. and as has been pointed out, it was the Office of Special Plans, not the CIA which soiled the diaper. the intel the adninistration recieved from the CIA didn't make an airtight case for invasion, so they created the Office of Special Plans (can you say Orwell?)to circumvent the CIA and DIA. from my view, THis purge i not about the quality of intelliegence, its about "loyalty" to the party line. They want to control the intel to meet their ideological objectives and prevent political embarrasment. The motive is politics, in an action that should recongnize only professional competence and experience. They seem to be saying, well if you don't agree with the president and supply him with intel he wants, you're fired and will lose your pension. What if the raw intel doesn't jibe with the party line? How is purging agents with 20-30 years experience and replacing them with political hacks like Goss going to help us get better intel? This is very disturbing and reeks of fascism.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
77. Ahhh - sipping the repuke koolaid, I see!
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 11:31 AM by TankLV
If you would do a little THOROUGH research, you would find that the intelligence was fine - quite good actually. It is the repukes and bunkerboy singularly, who chose which parts of the intelligence to ignore or deny and which to publicize.

Completely ignoring all the modifiers and warnings about stretching conclusions to fit their pre-programmed ideology, our intelligence services actually provided quite good intelligence - the bushies simply did not like what they were hearing, so they chose to ignore and conviently leave out whole sections.

Yellowcake.
WMD.
Aluminum tubes.
Cakewalk w/flowers nonsense.

The CIA had it correct.

And don't forget that these repuke traitors - yes TRAITORS - hired and then fired not one, not two, but three different weapons inspectors because each and every one, including the last one, found out that THERE WERE NO WMD OR ANY OTHER OF THE THE THINGS THE REPUKES WERE TRYING TO CLAIM - and that was all BEFORE bush*s "war".
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DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Full of liberals and others prone to see reality instead of the Presidents
faith based view of the world. On the other hand, I bet we get some REALLY good books out of these folks in the coming years.
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valis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
19. The last thing Chimpy wants is a bunch of disgruntled
ex-CIA people working to get revenge... If they are fired they do not fear losing their job anymore... They cannot be controlled in any way by this administration....
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
21. Scary. There are NO liberals in the CIA.
Not a liberal organization by the longest shot imaginable.

I can't believe that DU is accepting that statement at face value.

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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #21
62. Nonsense
Move to DC and see how the government works. While I bet liberals are a minority, CIA has everybody from Kucinich supporters to religious right.
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juliagoolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. This is frightening!
What kind of America is this we live in now?

Nothing this man does is up to any kind of examination? He is above all transparency?

I hope the RW Radical clerics ask for way way too much and the house of cards falls in upon its self.

I've grown ill thinking of this creepy indication.
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
24. There will surely be a huge backlash!
Just like the backlash against the Swift Liars that was promised by many Dems!

And the media will investigate Bush for this corrupt behavior too. :eyes:
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. That was a joke, right. Media, backlash, hah hah.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. The birth of the new Gestapo?
eom
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. am i the only one that NEVER associated
the words "liberal' and 'CIA' together?
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #27
44. It isn't that most of us think there
are liberals in the CIA but that bushie thinks anyone who disagrees with him is a liberal. I do think that while not liberal there are people in the CIA who love democracy as much as we do and have tried to protect it from him. They are the ones in danger of losing the heads.
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Lindsay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
29. For those who blame the Dems for accepting Goss,
remember that this purge is being mandated by the White House. It doesn't matter who Shrubbie put in charge...it would have the same outcome.
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itsrainingkarma Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. this is odd...
so is this bush's new plan for winning the war on terror? take trained, knowledgeable, competent, employees who may disagree with your policies and remove them so they can be replaced by fresh, meaty republicans? i don't follow the logic here... your taking people who have been working on this for years and replacing them with other people...
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. So it's now the "Liberal CIA" Thats real funny. I guess now a days
if your are a Dem, your a Liberal. Nice - Go liberal CIA!!! Get those Bush fuckers, you know what to do. What a joke.
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nyrnyr1994 Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #32
53. Kind of sounds like....
I'm trying to think of the phrase, oh yeah, CHANGING HORSES MIDSTREAM! :grr:

This was an argument I've heard from some people I know that I tried to convince to not vote for *, but they unfortunately did. Well, looks like we're going to change horses after all. :grr:
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bacchant Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
33. I wanna throw up. eom
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not fooled Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
93. a general response nowadays:
"I wanna throw up. eom"
Posted by bacchant

all-purpose response to whatever crap comes out of the WH each and every day from now until.....well, certainly not until the 'pukes "lose" the preziduncy...they will never voluntarily "lose" another prez election unless and until we get rid of the machines.
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
38. But he's got a mandate!
Anyway, I think the Republicans are going to over-reach, just like they did with the Clenis. Actions like this, that can't be explained away by a few talking points; the holy-rollers coming out from behind the curtain, showing the ugliness behind their "Christian" masks, will eventually scare people more than the fear of terrorist attacks.

I say we just give them the rope, absolve ourselves of responsibility, and watch them hang themselves.



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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
39. Well All I know its Survival of the Fittest & CIA knows how to survive
Goss is playing with some tough characters so I hope he knows what he is doing!!!
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Jack Schitt Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
40. Welcome to Oceania.
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 12:07 AM by Jack Schitt
Population: 300 million
Leader: Big Brother
Political Party: The Inner Party
The Enemy: Eurasia (or is it East Asia?)
Year: 1984

:scared: :grr:
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
42. This probably will backfire
Either through being brought up on impeachment charges for firing non-political public servants for political reasons or because you DON'T piss off people who work in an organization that is VERY GOOD at overthrowing governments!
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American Tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #42
52. Impeachment charges? Dream on.
With what House majority will these articles of impeachment pass? And where are you going to find 67 Senators who will vote to convict?
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
45. Would now be a good time to invest in
the uniform and black boot industry x(
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
46. Not very bright
More likely to result in damaging leaks.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #46
57. In order for leaks to be damaging ...
you need a press corp that's willing to make them public and keep up the pressure. That doesn't exist in Dick Cheney's Amerika.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
47. Let Beria have his purge
I disagree that opposing this is a wise move. They own 3 branches of
government. They are making stupid mistakes. Let them. Fighting
for balance costs us a gazillion political points, when we can do
nothing and burn them when it all goes pear shaped.

Last time i checked, being the head of the nazi secret police, is
a sure way to visit the gallows... or an unfortunate traffic accident.

They are waging war against the constitutional checkpoints to their
power. Let them do it. They are making collossal mistakes. It
is "their" government, not ours. The CIA is no holy temple worth
protecting. Let them make their bed of snakes.

Fight the judges appointments, fair voting for all races, equal
rights for all people... but why waste limited political capital
on the CIA. The people they purge will be thankful in later life
that they were not associated with the coming crimes.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
48. Only the beginning.
What ekse would a Totalitarian Nation like Amerika do?

We are living in the "Good Old Days" and the downhill slide will undoubtedly speed up.

Busheviks are now programmed to be perfect Nazis. When bad shit happens, they will blame a Scapegoat.

They are ready and only require a terrorist attack or two before their murderous fantasies, long suppressed, can come true.
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motoxxxsigep Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:59 AM
Response to Original message
51. seriously
I'm seriously sick and tired of all this. Besides that fact that that is illegal unless they are quitting instead of being "purged" but still if they are being coerced that is still BS.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
56. There are probably very few 'liberal Democrats'...
...in the CIA, but that's not the point. "Liberal" is a code-word the Bushies use for disloyalty. Remember...they're not being fired for leaking sensitive information...but information 'damaging' to the Bush* White House.
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dave420 Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. "Liberals"...
... is the new "terrorist". It'll be casually slung around for a while to make everyone hear it, then it'll start to be attributed to things "anti American", and hey-presto, instant PR fifth-columnists. just add water.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #56
60. It's McCarthyism.
Call someone a communist, and then attack him. In their view, today the new communists are liberals.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #60
64. true
very good point
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Nightwing Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
65. Vindictive Bush Emerges
We all knew he had it in him to out his political enemies and destroy them. The compassionate uniter begins his destruction of the American dream replacing it with the American Nightmare. Why is this not surprising?

The main question is will the GOP and Dem leadership in the House and Senate rise up and reject this idiot once and for all? God help us all if they do not.

:puke:
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #65
78. No - no they will not. Just look at recent history. Neve have, never
will.

Best to vote "for the war" so they can't accuse us of not "supporting the pResident" or some other such rationalizing bullcrap.

Same with the so-called "patriot act", budgets, and nominations - incidentally ALL of which have been approved except for less than 5.
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John Dark Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
68. Down the rabbit hole and through the looking glass...
into the reverse of logic.

Didn't the 9/11 report cite the politicization of intelligence as a cause of intelligence failure? So what is the recommended remedy? Reorganize the intel leadership to make it even more partisan politicized? To make sure they purge the last vestige of objective information by subjugating reality itself to the White House political agenda?

Remember, this is an administration that is convinced it can overpower "reality" itself. Hubris doesn't begin to describe it.
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HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
69. Remember Travelgate?
The Republicans got their panties in a wad over that. Was there an independent council involved? Can we hold that up as a comparison but even worse?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
70. Good! Let the thugs in the CIA fight amongst themselves.
And, give the world a break.
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
73. For those of you too young to remember the Nixon era...
...it will be repeated for your entertainment.
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Sparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
74. This does not surprise me.
Who does this ratf*ck think he is? I am really starting to hate *!
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holboz Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
79. Eek!
I thought my fears and worries would subside as we moved further past November 2nd. I never ever expected that my fears would dramatically INCREASE. What is happening in this country??? I am truly worried about how things are going...I feel like we've been taken over. Every citizen in this great land should be very concerned with the changing face of our government. One party dominating every single facet of government is NOT in the best interest of Americans. I know the people at DU are expressing concern...when will the rest of the country wake up and show theirs? What will it take???

I hope to God that I'm over-reacting to what is happening. To quote the title of a famous book, "Dude, where's my country?"
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Massachusetts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. "When will the rest of the country wake up"
The rest of the country will wake up when the draft that isn't will become the draft that has to be. Then and only then will those who have been silent and complacent begin to speak out in anger.

Its all about the pain scale on a personal level, how much do I take before I yell!
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #79
86. Don't think you're over-reacting.
I've been worried ever since I first heard of Homeland Security. Not only does it have a distinctly fascist sounding name, but I noticed that it seems to mimic the organization of the KGB. The way it ties internal intelligence with external intelligence and is responsible for securing the borders, it is at least a first cousin. And look at the number of Soviet leaders that came out of that security apparatus, reaching all the way back to Stalin.

If this isn't stopped now, we can look forward to our presidents coming from Homeland Security and the CIA (like Poppy Bush), instead of out of Governors' mansions and the houses of the Senate. No more haberdashers for us.

Power comes from where power is held, and with the politicization of the intelligence community, that is the new nexus of power.

God help us. (and I'm an atheist)
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
80. And So It Begins
The re-birth of the Gestapo.
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LibeMatt Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
84. This sounds sooooooooooo Soviet
That system didn't come to a good end either, but unfortunately caused a lot of damage on the way down (cf. a recent Juan Cole column in which he describes the fate of crackpot ideas like Bin Ladinism but also implicitly Bushism). Let's make sure we do better at the damage control and rebuild phases.
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Zoomie Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
87. Geeeeez
Who would have ever thought that those dirty bastard liberals had infiltrated the CIA? My God they are everywhere!! What are we going to do? If the Bushies are finding liberals in places like the CIA it makes you wonder what they think about places like schools and libraries. Look out....here they come! At least boys wont be kissing anytime soon
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V Lee Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
89. Complete neocon takeover.

I expected this.

Hopefully most DUers know all about the neocon/Project for the New American Century agenda of knocking off 6-7 Middle Eastern countries, privatizing their oil industries, and creating a "New Middle East" dominated by the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. It's item #1 on the Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Libby, etc. agenda. Iraq was just the first step. They set up their Office of Special Plans under Feith in the Pentagon and set out "developing" the "intelligence" to justify the Iraq invasion. Intelligence that we now all know was bogus. Problem was, the CIA was working with real intelligence, and they kept pointing out how the info coming out of Feith's office was either questionable or wrong. And when the neocons found out about an impending terrorist attack in mid-2001 and were patiently waiting for their "new Pearl Harbor" to arrive on 9/11, Tenet was running around "like his hair was on fire" trying to warn of the coming attack. That was most unhelpful for the neocon agenda, they just wanted to sit quietly and let it happen. They needed 9/11 to build support for the Iraq invasion and they didn't appreciate the CIA making so much noise and trying to tell everyone that it was coming.

If the Bush/neocon crew are to complete their plan and change a half-dozen or so oil-rich regimes, they don't want the CIA to keep questioning them. I expected that right after the election they'd shake up the CIA, get rid of all the "reality based" people and replace them with "neocon agenda based" people who are willing to doctor the intelligence (or just make things up) to support their plans.

It's going to be an interesting four years ...

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Manfred Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
90. Can anyone say.......NAZIS!
n/t
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IceOwl Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
91. And yet...
It's perfectly alright to expose a CIA agent, as long as you're a Republican? Fuck that.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
92. This means that Bu$h is going to start jailing innocent US citizens soon.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #92
95. Jailing of US Citizens...
...incommunicado, without charges, without legal access, without court hearings already happening.
Welcome to the wold of Compassionate Conservatism, not to be confused with Democracy or a Constitutional Republic.

Jose Padilla is a thoroughly worthless thug, but he IS an American citizen.
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Lone_Wolf_Moderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
94. So much for bridging the divide.
If you step out of line and think for yourself, you're fired? Hmmm...
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
97. more parallels with Germany in the 30's.
Notice this line.

"The White House has ordered the new CIA director, Porter Goss, to purge the agency of officers thought to have been disloyal to President Bush"

This is a conscience attempt to elevate bush* to a position ABOVE the country, Constitution, Laws, Truth, Justice, & the American Way!

The NAZI's were able to achieve this with Hitler. The NAZI's demanded absolute loyalty to a Person, Hitler, who then became infallible.

the NeoCons (American Fascists)are demanding the same type of fanatical loyalty to bush*.
Granpappy Bush(Prescott) didn't just do business with Hitler. Prescot Bush stole the Nazi playbook.
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VTHoosierPatriot Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. Wake up
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 08:15 PM by VTHoosierPatriot
They're way past this, they have already started purging moderate Republicans. Look at the shitstorm Specter is in.
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
100. Bush's pride goeth before the fall
This implies an internal coup taking place in the Bush admin. part II (aka the election fraud of 2004)

In Bush's purge of CIA, I've read that analysts from the data-collecting, covert side are also resigning. If this is true, he's losing important assets in the US intel community, especially coming at a bad time when things are going so poorly in Iraq already, not that he ever paid any attention to the things he didn't like to hear anyway.

But we're talking about a seriously debilitated administration which will be even more hampered in his future strategy of war and war plans.

I don't know if there are liberals in the CIA, but there probably may be, such as people who might think like Col. Fletcher Prouty, who was liason between Pentagon and CIA prior to JFK assassination in '63.
Then again, maybe they've been selectively assassinated, too.

It also doesn't matter how the US corporate news media will try to downplay the summary execution of the unarmed Iraqi POW, the damage in the Arabic world has already been unleashed and this will make a new level of intensity of the fighting by the resistance against the US occupational army.
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CatBoreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
101. Hmmm......
..... wonder if they're going to go after the person who leaked that CIA agent's name to the press??

Oooops, forgot, whoever did it was working FOR Shrub/*/Bush.

Silly me. That's nowhere near as important as finding the liberals.

Cam :eyes:
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
102. How are they supposed to spot the liberal democrats?
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