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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:54 PM
Original message
Can we start an African American Group on DU
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 01:25 PM by pbl
I would like to see a group for African Americans started at DU. There are often issues in the black community that are not covered by the mainstream media and therefore don't make their way into the general discussions on DU. I also believe that we are losing many black voters to the propaganda being forced on them about moral issues and so we need a way to counter the rightwing onslaught in black churches and the black community.

We need at least ten interested DUers to reply to this thread to get the ball rolling. Also we need to come up with a mission statement that we can all agree upon.

Here's an idea for a mission statement: Our purpose is to have a place on DU to discuss issues which directly affect the African American community. Our goal is to reach out beyond the walls of DU and affect the black community with the message of what real moral values are and how those values lead us to liberal causes.

Please feel free to add you own ideas.

On Edit: You don't have to be African American to join this group. Edited to reflect the fact that this is for everyone.
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Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Can I post if I'm white but a member of NAACP?
Just asking. :-)
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Please do...
I don't think it should be just for black people, but mainly for black issues. I'll edit my post to say so.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. kick
:kick:
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
37. kick
:kick:
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Cheney Killed Bambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Kick?
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 12:31 AM by Cheney Killed Bambi
I'm sort of new to DU -- but what is "kick"?

Also, how do I change my Avatar? I'd like to change it to something more relevant than a photo of Kerry and Edwards.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. here's an explanation
1) kick -- adding to a post so it stays at the top of the list
2) change your avatar in your profile -- it's not hard to do.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
45. hell yeah! great idea!.,...i'm a white member of the NAACP...can i post?
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 08:09 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. This white guy thinks it is a good idea
eom
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. absolutelly
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. another white guy who'd post.
I teach African-American kids, and would love to see such a group.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. I think it's a great idea. It might help improve the diversity here.
And there are many political and cultural issues that have a special resonance in the AA community.

Race is at the heart of so many issues in our society - always has been. Everyone, all colors, invited for constructive discussion.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm not sure...convince me... I'm not sure if we can 'affect the black
community of what real moral values are' most of the moral values that lead the black community are lead by religion and that is the same battle we are fighting against the fundies.

I'm not totally convinced that we need a groups by race.

If we concentrate on liberal issues like helping the poor, health care, education, jobs, child care, womens health, aids, drugs, housing, we'll be reaching out to the black community.

But, again, convince me...
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FizzFuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. hi xultar, just a quick thought
because the black community has the struggle of poverty to deal with in a big way because of systemic racism, I'm thinking that putting some emphasis on black community of ideas for discussion or change or awareness at least could be very fruitful.

I don't know if I'm expressing myself clearly here, I feel like I'm not getting my thought across well.

by the way, I'm a white woman, grew up in the white suburbs of NJ, if that makes any difference. :)
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I'm not sure that I can convince you
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 01:55 PM by pbl
I think you will have to see it for yourself. I have many ideas in my mind about writing letters, coming up with talking points, and giving a greater voice to the AA's at DU and in the Democratic Party. All I can is that I know the issues, because I come from an Evangelical background (my mother still pastors an Evangelical church) and I know that when black people are given the choice between denying someone rights and helping someone in need, they usually choose the latter. I believe they just need to hear the choices that exist. If we throw up our hands and say all is lost and let them go then we will continue to lose black voters to the Republican Party.

I hope people won't look at this as being devisive because that is not my intention.

On Edit: Moral issues are not the central part of why I want to start this forum, just a major part of why some blacks are voting Republican.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. I didn't think you were trying to be devisive, we'll only lose black folk
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 02:08 PM by xultar
just like we lost the white ones. I can't understand how so many blacks and whites can vote against their own self interest because some pastor, preacher, or whomever lead them to do it.

Reaching the religious evangelicals and fundies white or black will take the same antidote. Down here in the ATL 2 preachers of very large churches with 50k combined congregations lead their members to vote for * over their own civil rights.

Young black religious folk down here are cruzin in benz-os and voting republican. Poor white fundies with no teeth are votin for *. They are all votin for the same reasons and they don't include race, equality, civil rights, healthcare, jobs, and education.

Religious white republicans and religious black folk bascially feel the same thing about social issues, they are all against gay marriage and civil unions to some extent. You won't get these black folk by concentrating on black issues they see things from a religious perspective. So you see, you either get them all black or white or you get none.

You solve the fundie question you win the prize.

I'm not against the group. I'd rather see us post threads in GD and interject the issues in the mainstream where they should be. (on edit) With that said I thing GLBT issues need to be in the mainstream also.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Most posts about black issues drop from the discussion
In no time flat. Well unless they're extremely controversial, like Affirmative Action and reparations. It would be nice to have a place where other black issues are brought up and given a chance to be viewed and discussed by those who have an interest in them.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. True, alright letsgive it a try n/t
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Dang, is that all I needed to say...
I would have saved all the rest of my babbling if I had known that... Just kidding! Thanks for being so thoughtful.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Well, kinda and I didn't wanna hold up progress, we'll see how it goes
and if I like what I see, I'll participate, and if I don't, I'll watch instead.

The black folk that voted for * are almost a lost cause just like the fundies. These people vote against their personal needs. They voted for the people who seek to use and abuse them. Kool-aid drinkers usually don't come back from the dead unless something catastropic wakes them up. Unfortunately by then, it is usually way too late.



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socalover Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. That is so true, anytime I try to get a topic on black issues,
not many people pay attention...
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. xultar, you raise a good point about moral values.
What are they, whose are they??

I still think a forum would be good for the reasons I mentioned above. I was unsure about grouping by race - except the black American experience is unique in the US - has been from day one, and continues to be. Our issues are a huge part of the Democratic Party - we are a big part of the party. And there are many issues about how we are treated by the party.

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dave502d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Your right xultar were all in the same boat now.
You made one of the best post i have ever seen on this forum.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. I support this!
I think this is a good idea.
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HEAVYHEART Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. Great idea! I'm all for it!
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. I think it would be a good idea for forums based on democratic
consituincies.


Of course all the allies for those groups would be allowed to post freely.

Ideas like: African American, Labor, Women, GLBT, etc.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
15. Anything that will get AA issues front and center would be a good idea
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 01:59 PM by Spiffarino
As a white American, I would like to know as much as possible about the experiences of black Americans, how they regard this country, and how their country regards them.

Anything that could promote a deeper understanding among Americans is a good thing. I'll post. Just try to be gentle if I say something stupid, m'k?
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. I'm in.
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
22. How many star supporters do you need..you got one more!
I am a white woman married to a black man..and I thought all the racial issues were fought for and won in the 60's..cause I am a white woman who just hung with liberal white folk all looked good til I met and married a black man and I realized all was not good in America for the black man. I am still angry and frustrated and anything that will let us liberals know what is going on in the black community is great. PS...his folks and brother voted for bush** cause of their church affiliation! :grr:
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
23. I like this idea
There are issues specific to the black community that I would like to discuss.
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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
25. Not African-American, but would be glad to see a group like that formed
and happy to sign up for it if you need people.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
26. Excellent Idea!
I think that is a great idea. There are many issues in the African-American community that don't get much attention in the mainstream media. I would like to see a place on DU where we could discuss affirmative action, HBCUs, home ownership, the extremely high African-American unemployment rate, etc.

Can we make this happen?
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RB Proud-Marylander Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
27. RE: "Can we start an African American Group on DU"
Rock ON!
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Hi RB Proud-Marylander!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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kitkatrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
28. Sure, why not?
:)
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socalover Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
30. Great idea!!!
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Ann Arbor Dem Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
32. I think it's a great idea!
I'm on board.
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EEgrad2003 Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
33. I think...
it would be a good idea also.
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B. P. R. D. Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
34. I Think All Minorities Should Be Included.
The main focus can be African Americans, but all minority issues should have a place in such a forum.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Different groups, different issues... n/t
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beanball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
36. That old gang of mine
count me in,invite the Krazy Kolored Klowns in the Bush misadministration to join.( Condi,Colin,Rod,and the cooks in the kitchen)
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sundog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
38. Yes
Though not African-American, I believe this needs to be done.

The thought for such a forum also went through my mind. It's all about organization & solidarity. Good luck :hi:
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
41. I think it's a good idea
I think DU is a progressive enough group to civilly discuss topics pertaining to the AA community.

One reason it's a good idea is because we can look at issues which have been seen in the community but are ignored until they are part of the non-AA community.

Hope this goes. I'll be there.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
42. i'm in
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
43. I think it's a great idea
As Michael Moore says, you don't get anymore Democratic 'base' than the African-American community.
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shockra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
44. This is a great idea
I was just thinking the other day how "white supremacist" the Bush people are (not necessarily in the skinhead sense of the word) according to what I've read about racism. And considering the fact that African-Americans vote overwhelmingly Democratic, the Democratic party has done pitifully little to understand black issues and reward their loyalty.

I got into reading African-American authors a couple of years ago. It was such an enlightening experience that I just kept going and going. I read over a dozen of the feminist bell hooks's books (and she's written many more), a lot of Alice Walker's essays, some Audre Lordes, a novel called The Street, etc. and I really learned a lot not only about black perspectives, but about myself. And that they have figured out a lot about white people that we wouldn't like to admit about ourselves. When I started reading I thought I pretty much knew what to expect, but that wasn't true! Until you really listen to/read people of color in their own words, you can't pretend to know what they're thinking or feeling. And it's highly unfortunate/(stupid?) that we haven't done more listening because there's quite a lot we could learn.

There's a passage from a great book called Women's Reality by Anne Wilson Schaef that describes well the system of power relations between the sexes, and of the white race in general over everybody else, that I think is very illustrative:

"The White Male System sees its mythology as all-knowing and all-revealing. In truth, however, it is just the opposite. I realized this most clearly many years ago when I was doing a workshop on racial issues in a Southern state. (This was during the heyday of the civil rights movement, when school districts were required to sponsor workshops on this topic in order to keep their public funding). The group I was working with was about half Blacks and half whites. Neither side wanted to disturb the tenuous equilibrium they had established thus far, and they invited me in because I was perceived as essentially harmless.

I had designed a relatively simple exercise I wanted to try out on the group in order to generate some data. I asked the participants to draw three columns on a sheet of paper. In the first, they were to list those characteristics which they perceived as uniquely Black. In the second, they were to list those they perceived as uniquely white. In the third, they were to list characteristics they saw as common to both groups.

After explaining what I wanted the group to do, I sat down to wait. After a while, the anxiety in the room became almost palpable. I decided to find out what was happening.

I found that the blacks had done precisely what I had asked them to do. Because they knew the Black system, they had been able to list characteristics they perceived as uniquely Black. Because they also knew the White Male System -- they had to in order to survive -- they had been able to list characteristics they saw as uniquely white. They were ready to move on to the third column.

The whites were having great difficulty completing the exercise, however. Because they knew nothing about the Black system, they could not do column one. Because they could not see the White Male System for what it is (one has to experience non-pollution before being able to recognize pollution), they could not do column two either. Increasingly frustrated, most of them had gone directly to column three. They had decided to ignore the differences between the two systems ("Let's not look at differences. Differences separate us!") and focus instead on common characteristics ("Let's look at ways in which we're alike and ignore the experience of being Black in the White Male System!")

In addition, as often happens in educational groups, the whole group had started cheating. People were looking at one another's papers. When the whites saw that the Blacks had been able to come up with answers for the first two columns, they became agitated ("What do they know that we don't know -- and how can this be?") When the Blacks saw that the whites had not been able to come up with answers for those two columns, they felt exposed. ("We cannot let them now that WE know that THEY don't know MORE. We'll lose our jobs if they find that we know they aren't superior.")

What the group had just experienced was a full-fledged myth-breaker. The whites were not superior and did not know more than the Blacks. In fact, the Blacks knew more. They had to. They had learned all about the White Male System because they needed to in order to survive in it. Because the whites did not have to know the Black system to survive, the whites had learned little or nothing about the Black system. The only way for them to find out about it would have been for Blacks to teach it to them, and that had not happened. Nor was it likely to happen.

Both sides were exhausted by this exercise. The whites were supposed to be innately superior and all-knowing -- but they could not come up with answers! The Blacks were trying to support the myth that whites were innately superior and all-knowing -- in order to keep their jobs -- but they had completed the exercise. Sometimes it is difficult to remember what one is not supposed to know! The myth was that the whites knew more. The reality was that the Blacks did."
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Brewman_Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
46. Excellent idea!
:kick:
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
47. The DU African-American Issues Group is now active
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. kick
:kick: For all to see.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. kick
:kick:
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