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If you don't like Southerners, you are a bigot.

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harrison Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:39 PM
Original message
If you don't like Southerners, you are a bigot.
I am a from the South lived here my whole, and have fought the good fight for 48 years. If you don't like Southerners, you are a bigot, and I am pretty familiar with bigotry. I know plenty of people down here who judge people on the basis of skin pigmentation. Apparently, there are people in these United States who judge people on the basis of vocal chord vibrations. Skin pigmentation, vocal chord vibrations. Doesn't make any difference. A bigot is a bigot is a bigot.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not me. I love a smooth talking Southern gentleman. ;^)
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Cornedwine Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
63. I'm a smooth talkin bastard
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GreenInNC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
98. Southern and Green
Hey there GPV, Green and southern here.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
99. Let me hold that door for you, ma'am!
And here, please take my seat. It's no trouble at all; I'll gladly stand.

I don't know too many people who don't appreciate what we in the South consider common manners.

Bake
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #99
136. Website against "red" voting Southerners
I just heard about this site on AAR. I went to the site and read it. They interviewed the author and he says that "blue" voters in the "red" states "get it" that he is not talking about them.

www.fuckthesouth.com
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helnwhls Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. testify brother harrison
The last line in Bertha Venations post about replacing the word Southern with liberal or progressive or democrat in the "south is evil" rants was priceless.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Right you are.
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 12:44 PM by LoZoccolo
We're seeing how liberal people actually are now, when it comes down to brass tacks and requires a bit of sacrifice and discernment.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Which begs the question: When does it cross the line into bigotry?
If I dislike stupid people or right-wing radio listeners or fundamentalist Christians who use their faith as a tool of oppression....am I a bigot?
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American Tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. No. Bigotry is defined as UNREASONABLE prejudice against a group of people
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Like most Southerners have against the North?
When I was in the Army during the Korea War, most all guys from the South had the same question. "Are you Rebel or a Yankee?" Being from Colorado at the time I couldn't understand this mentality.

I don't think much has changed in the last fifty years. Where else can one hear a grown man from the south call his father "daddy"?

Accordingly perhaps I'm a bigot also, what do I Know?
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
122. listen here you, it ain't "daddy", it's "diddy"
It is funny that to some southerners they think the ocean starts west of the mississippi river.

I think it's more appropriate to assert that if you dislike southerners on the basis of their being you might be prejudiced, however, I don't expect anyone to be required to like me.

And fromt the other side, the nasal wheezing speech of many notherners is like nails on a chalkboard to me, even though they are very nice people, it drives me up the wall as much as my drawl does them.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
48. Does that include Yankees? Is it bigotry when Southerners hate
Yankees just because they're from "up North"?
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Do you really need to ask?
Of course it is. Whenever people are hated for some arbitrary characteristic, instead of what they are as individuals, it's bigotry
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American Tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #48
69. Um....yes, obviously.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #48
100. I have nothing at all against Yankees.
Note that I did not say "Damn Yankees."

Many of the finest people I know are Yankees. I've felt welcome in New York City, Boston, Hartford CT, Minneapolis, etc. (Took me a while to get the hang of that Boston accent, though!)

I have a great appreciation especially for the Cradle of Liberty.

And I'm Southern by birth and by choice.

Bake
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #100
107. As someone with a Boston accent., some southern accents are..
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 08:12 PM by Cobalt Violet
harder to listen to than fingernails on a chalk board. But not all of them. I kinda like the accent of the Carolinas.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. Accents do not = ignorance, and of course you know that already!
I had a hard time with a Boston cabbie who kept referring to "kwando". I finally realized he was saying "condo."

I'm sure he'd have a hard time understanding us in Mississippi!

Personally, I LOVE accents!! I'm gonna go PAHK THE CAH IN THE YAHD! And I loves me some Boston!!! The Salty Dog Inn! Yeah!

Bake
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #108
111. yes , I can narrow it down to a Texas accent.
I like the east coast southern states accents. I have good friends from Georgia & South Carolina and I liked their accents. I also had a friend from Alabama and her accent did bother me either. It's just a certain place in Texas that I have a hard time with.

BTW (don't hate me Texans) my boyfriend is from Texas, but he has been up here for 10 yrs. I only need an interpreter when he is drunk.
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Pushed To The Left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
73. I listen to talk radio
I started listening to talk radio when there was more of a variety of opinions. I enjoy the talk-radio format, and those right-wing hosts on the AM dial strengthen my progressive beliefs every time I hear them!

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hahahahaha....
Alabama just voted to keep school segregation in its dreary Constitution, and all over Dixie dimwits are trying to suppress evolution in hopes they can hid how much they resemble apish forebears.

"A bigot is a bigot is a bigot."
And I've never met one yet that didn't try to justify his bigotry by pretending he was being oppressed...
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. Not every Southern state is trying to suppress evolution.
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 02:20 PM by merh
I believe that fight is going on in Georgia and what they want is the ability to teach creationism along side evolution. That folks fear that the yout (Cousin Vinnie) cannot make up their mind about which is the most reasonable and scientifically probable is sad. I was taught creationism in parochial elementary, when I attended public and was taught Darwinism, I made up my mind that creationism was not possible.

Also, other Southern states are not voting for segregation as you have alleged Alabama has done.

And, finally, not every Southerner votes for repukes, believe in the repuke platforms or voted that the weed that would be king keeps his job.

You blaming all Southerners for the closed mindedness of some or even the majority is bigotry. So you are right, a bigot is a bigot.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. Yeah, there must be at least one not in the Dark Ages
or at least you'd think so.

"Also, other Southern states are not voting for segregation"
Well, that IS a cause for celebration!

"as you have alleged Alabama has done."
Alleged? That's rich. Are you REALLY pretending those yokels didn't do what they did?

And I'll repeat--I've never met a bigot in my life who didn't begin to wail that he was being oppressed when his ignorance, fear and hate was pointed out....
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #36
91. If the shoe fits
"And I'll repeat--I've never met a bigot in my life who didn't begin to wail that he was being oppressed when his ignorance, fear and hate was pointed out...."

And yes, it is a cause for celebration if you live in a southern state that has not voted for segregation.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #91
128. The shoe sure fits most Southerners
"yes, it is a cause for celebration if you live in a southern state that has not voted for segregation."
Be sure and break out the party hats and whizzers.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #128
133. The shoe fits you
and that other southern states are able to continue the struggle against racism, despite the loud racists that tend to control our society, yes it is a victory, despite your closed minded, bigoted perception.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #133
139. Not so, Clem....
"other southern states are able to continue the struggle against racism"
Yeah, it shows. (snicker)
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #139
146. Yeah, it does show and the odds are against us you bigotted
closed minded, simpleton.

We liberals in the south fight ever day against the racism you see as the trait of all southerners.

You coward, if you were so damned superior, you would move here and try to make changes and help us fight against the racism. Instead you would rather ridicule us and say how ignorant we are.

The one who clearly demonstrates ignorance is you, from your posts and your ignorance of what life is like in the south.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #146
152. Peddle it walking, clem.
"We liberals in the south fight ever day against the racism"
Mostly by sitting here bitching about people in other, more enlightened parts of the country, I suppose.

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #152
154. No, you smug enlightened one. (NOT!)
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 11:13 AM by merh
By living here, by being involved in the local politics, by being involved in state politics, by voting in folks that don't allow the segregation issue to be argued again.

What the hell do you do you, its easy to judge when you live in a blue state, trying coming to a red state and fighting the battle on a daily basis.

The name is not clem, stop the bigotry and grow up.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #154
155. Hey, look, it's the full flower of Southern manhood on display (snicker)
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #155
156. Your refusal to respond to the question speaks volumes.
eom
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #156
158. Not as much as the klan jamboree does, Clem
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #158
159. I wouldn't know, I have never attended one. Why don't you tell
me about them.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #159
160. You got your chance to go...
They seem to be creeping out into the daylight down there.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #160
161. Yeah, and you guys have your skin heads and young nazis
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 12:08 PM by merh
and christian fundies - so what? Like I said, live in the area daily and fight it daily and try to make changes, don't be an escapist who claims to be enlightened, but has done nothing to fight against the bigotry and racism. Of course, it is apparent, you do something, you sit and judge based on sterotypes.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #161
162. Yeah, Clem, DAMN those stereotypes....
"Like I said, live in the area daily and fight it daily and try to make changes"
Yeah, that's the ticket. I'll uproot my life and go live with fuckwtitted yokels while you bitch about anybody pointing out they're fuckwitted yokels.

"has done nothing to fight against the bigotry and racism"
Clem, I was marching for civil rights in the sixties and have been fighting for them ever since. And I didn't do it by sitting around bitching whenever anybody pointed out there WAS bigotry.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #162
164. You continue to dispute my posts as I point out that you are
closed minded, closed minded enough that you can easily wear the racist label.

When my posts hit close to home, you refer to me as Clem, which is your attempt to be offensive and a reflection of your bigotry.

March all you want, that is so neat of you, how wonderful. How exciting, I betcha that changed tons of lives fer sure! That is why the "fuckwitted yokels" are paying such attention to the civil rights movement today! Wonderful job.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #164
165. No shit, Clem....
Wonder where the idea ever arose that people mired in Dixie are slow on the uptake?

"March all you want, that is so neat of you, how wonderful. How exciting, I betcha that changed tons of lives fer sure!"
Have somebody explain the Civil Rights movement to you. Very slowly. Twice.

"That is why the "fuckwitted yokels" are paying such attention to the civil rights movement today!"
Yeah, that fine Southern gentleman Trent Lott even said we wouldn't have had "all these troubles" if segregation had been propped up. Guess that was us meddling northerners with our "bigotry" that toppled Jim Crow.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #165
166. Don't need someone to explain it to me -
I know all about it and how it has been a "mask" worn by those who try to relish in their efforts to destroy racism and fail to accept the fact that simple marching does not and has not corrected the problem.

It really did not do that much for civil rights, except provide those that violate them with a road map to follow as to appear as if they are not violating them.

Again you enlightened one, live the life and fight the fight daily, marching alone does not protect civil rights or fight against racism.

not respectfully your - Clem!
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #166
167. Evidently you DO, Clem....
"It really did not do that much for civil rights"
UH-HUH. Bye bye Clem. Sounds like you deserved everything your ignorant ass got and then some.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #167
174. May you live peacefully in your enlightened world of make
believe, secure that you once marched, foresaking the true and continuing battle for civil rights, secure that you did your part because you once wore out the soles of your shoes a long, long time ago.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #174
179. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #179
180. I claimed your marching 40 years ago did not do as much
as you give yourself credit for and that the civil rights laws are not as powerful as you have fooled yourself into believing. The civil rights struggle is on going and you are naive if you think it is only waged in the south.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #180
181. And you sounded like an idiot
"the civil rights laws are not as powerful as you have fooled yourself into believing"
Good thing we've got those shitheads in Dixie trying to tear them down, eh?

"you are naive if you think it is only waged in the south."
Nobody claimed it is. But it is being waged openly in the South, and it's ridiculous to claim pointing that out is bigotry.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #181
182. I do not sound like the idiot, it is you who sounds like the bigoted
idiot that things you are so much better than others because you once marched for civil rights, 40 years ago. You have your civil rights violations throughout this nation, to point to the south and to say we are the only ones is foolish and naive. To ridicule all southerners because of your naive and stereotypical views is not only idiotic, it is bigoted.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #182
183. Go snivel to someone else, Clem....
Dixie is a cesspool that you're welcome to wallow in.



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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #183
184. And you go judge some other area of the country based on
your bigoted beliefs, as we all know, New Jersey is so much better than the rest of the nation.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #184
188. Jeeze, there's no other area so thick with fuckwits
as Dixie.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #183
185. We all have racists organizations
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 05:25 PM by merh
KEYSTONE KNIGHTS OF THE KU KLUX KLAN - Based in Johnstown, Pennsylvania, with affiliates in Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Indiana, Georgia, New Jersey, Ohio, South Carolina and West Virginia.

WAR SKINS - Formed in 1983 as an independent group, in 1986, War Skins were recruited by Tom and John Metzger, leaders of White Aryan Resistance. (WAR has been the most successful white supremacy group in recruiting Skinheads). Although War Skins are primarily based in California, branches have surfaced as far away as New Jersey and Florida.

While the number of Skinheads has decreased to under 5,000, Skinhead groups continue to flourish in California, Florida, Michigan, New Jersey, Texas, Pennsylvania and Washington.

http://www.texaspolicecentral.com/new_lexicon_of_hate.h...

The statistical decline contrasted with several high profile acts of anti-Semitic violence in 1999. In the span of eight weeks, horrific acts of violent hatred targeted three Jewish communities, including synagogue arsons in Sacramento, and shootings targeting Jews and other racial minorities in Chicago and Los Angeles.

As in previous years, the states with high concentrations of Jewish residents reported the most incidents, including New York, California, Massachusetts, New Jersey and Florida. Combined, these five states accounted for 68 percent, or 1,054 of the total.

http://www.adl.org/backgrounders/Anti_Semitism_us.asp

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #185
189. Yeah, but so few other areas are proud of their racists
or elect their members to office.

Nor do people in NJ sit around sniveling that the Anti-Defamation League is "bigoted against the Northeast" when these malignant twits are singled out and condemned.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #189
191. Get it through you head, not every one in the south is a bigot
or a racist. Not every southerner is proud of the racist organizations that are in our states. It is easy to point your finger at us and blame us for the social ills of our nation because you marched. Some of us chose to live here and try to change things, its not easy, we recognize the racists and we fight against them daily.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #191
194. I'm sure there must be one or two who aren't...
but I'll bet they don't sit around sniveling that they're being oppressed....
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #194
195. And I would wager that there are some in New Jersey that aren't
racist and don't blame the entire south for the ills of our nation and they don't sit around blaming, degrading and bad mouthing southerners, even those that take offense to the sterotyping.
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Jackie97 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #139
171. I think the points is....
Don't judge all southern states by one.

IF Alabama did actually vote to allow segregation, then that does not speak for all the rest of the northern states.

Are all northern states against the death penalty just because Illonois put a halt to it for a while?

Remember the SC confederate flag contraversy? SC was the only state doing that crap. I was living in NC at the time (as I still am), and I for one was proud that wasn't my state making a fool of itself. I'd hate to think that SC spoke for all states.

The south isn't the most enlightened part of the world, but I don't think they're as bad as you make them out to be.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
101. But I'm willing to make an exception for SOME Yankees ...
Bench, you know better than that. I KNOW you do.

Bake
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MISSDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #36
170. 40% of those Mississippians who voted
voted for Kerry.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
49. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. and your point is?
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. It's a spammer
He had links to Caterpilar equipment on another thread.
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Is It Fascism Yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #49
59. Spam
Hey, Spammer at Silvercrest, Do we uncounted liberal voters look like we are in a spending mood to you? Haven't you heard about the "Starve the Beast" campaign? We aren't spending till our votes get counted, so, go spam congress please.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
89. Wisconsin is now requiring schools to teach "intelligent design."
By your reasoning we should start hating them now.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #89
129. So because ignorance and superstition are spreading
we should smile and think about how swell that is?

Ri-i-i-i-i-i-i-ight.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #129
131. You're a fine one to complain about ignorance. n/t
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:51 AM by QC
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #131
138. Hahahahaha
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m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
109. not a matter of the South
Much of what people blame on the South is actually more accurately described as "rural" and is just as common in the North. Since the South is more rural, the state elections line up with rural attitudes and politics. Take Detroit out of Michigan and you have Mississippi.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #109
130. Then it's up to enlightened Southerners to change that
but instead they want to do is piss and moan that they're being "discriminated" against.
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m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #130
157. wow
Word for word that was the racists' answer back in the civil rights days. If one said "you are smearing all African Americans with the actions of a few" the response would be "well then it is up to the good ones to change that."
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Jackie97 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #130
177. I have an idea (edited).
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 02:05 PM by Jackie97
Let's be against Americans because the majority of them voted for a nut like Bush.

Let's put you in with the rest of us (since you're in with us in the world's eyes anyway), and see how you like it.

Seriously Benchley, step up to the plate and step up to it NOW.

Say that it's okay to judge all Americans because of what 58 million of them did.

Funny thing. I come from NC, and we mostly got Democrats voted into our state government.

I also remember reading about how about half of the south voted for Bush, the other half Kerry. I could have my information wrong, but I think that's about right. It makes sense since America is split down the middle on this election.

The Bush people are obviously *all over the country*. Do you really think those three million came all from the south? Heck no. The electoral college has most of the country in red. I would imagine that in most states, we had almost half voting for Kerry and and a little more than half voting for Bush. I know that's what it was like in NC.

But go ahead and blame the south for the whole damn country's problems if you want to. As far as I'm concerned, this is as stupid as blaming solely the south for slavery just because they openly advocated it while the north silently profited from it. The south's just more vocal. That's all it really is. That's how it's always been.

Stop scapegoating the south!

I don't mind admitting that the south has a serious problem with enlightenment, but you make it sound like southerners in general are just dirty and nasty and I'm tired of it. I'm especially tired of it since so many southerners have worked to try to change the south only to have our "enlightened" northern neighbors spit on us as if we were all the same. That's about as bad as working hard to change America only to have the world spit on us as if we're all the same.

Well, I guess all liberals need their scapegoats, even the American ones. Question is who will be the southern liberal's scapegoat.
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Jackie97 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
169. Voted for what?
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 01:04 PM by Jackie97
Benchley, could you give more information on this voting for school segregation stuff?

I won't deny that the schools are segregated for other reasons, but Brown vs. the Board of Education specifically says that schools that directly segregate anymore.

As for evolution, I don't think a lot of southerners agree with suppressing it. Of course I'm NC, not the more southern states.
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Jackie97 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #169
176. Okay, I just looked into this segregation stuff.
Here's an article to read about it.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/...

Basically, what some in Alabama wanted to do was to get rid of the "separate, but equal" language in the Alabama constitution.

If Alabama is like a lot of other places in the United States, they're already segregated. They're segregated because they live apart, and the people drawing the maps always manage to draw them into separate school zones.

That's how it is in the more enlightened state of North Carolina to a point. That's how it is in a lot of America from what I understand.

So, there is NO THREAT AT ALL to stopping segregation. The federal government demanded that a stop be put to it years ago, and people are just finding their way around it.

Here's the issue. Getting rid of the racist language might cost tax payer's money, and they don't want to pay the money that it takes to increase quality in the educational system.

I think we're going to have a problem with segregation either way it goes. It's our culture unfortunately. No law appears to be changing that because the laws don't require stuff like bussing. What we need to do is concentrate on getting more money into all of the schools and to have it going toward what it needs to (i.e. raising teacher's pay).

I think this issue is more about money than about race.

Oh, the conservatives don't mind putting millions into our military, but the hell with our kids.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. Agree
I'm in a very blue section of a red state. All this red-blue crap is just a rhetorical resurrection of the old Nixon strategy used effectively everywhere, but most focused on the South. It pit poor black and white Southerner's against each other (to the benefit of the Republicans) by using race as a wedge issue.

The Red-Blue argument is a reflection of frustration that many feel about the election and it will die down. But you're right, it is not helpful and does contain a current of bigotry.

I am all in favor of a Metro/heavy suburban-Rural/light suburban dialog in each and every state. In VA, Northern Virginia supports the rest of the state. It's the same with major urban areas around the country. New York City, for example, had a fiscal crisis while I lived there in the '70's despite the fact that it gave much more in state taxes than it received.

This crap has to end. The issue should be joined in every state where urban/heavy suburban areas subsidize less populated areas. Why? Because this happens due to undemocratic weighting in state legislatures for light suburban/rural areas.

Excellent point on the red-blue stuff.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. one of my greatest of lesson, as i judge those that judge
it was a lot easier for me to be in grace living in a blue state, but moving to the panhandle of texas, i was able to address my bigotry to those that are bigots. probably my greatest hurdle to accepting people, not honoring their choses but seeing their lite, and ability to love them. told a teacher, i can love the lyin bush, i dont have to create a false bush to love. but in that, i can also see his wrongs, and not validate them. ergo, more of a chance of not having to experience it. allows me to not live in the illusion he creates.

i am a believer in addressing those that challenge my moral value. my christianity. i wont create them in a falsehood, but they dont get to create me in one either. there journey is theirs to walk tho, certainly their lesson.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. well, I'm a southerner too, born and raised...
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 12:51 PM by mike_c
...but I'm not too happy about the deep conservatism, religiosity, and social intolerance that characterizes the south. I'd like to change it, but absent change I must also recognize that the south simply does not represent my views or my values. That's not bigotry-- it's realism.

Keep fighting the good fight, brother harrison, but be prepared for a lifetime of disappointment.

on edit: ya'll come on out to the left coast when you need a break!
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. Believe it or not - diversity does exist in the south
Not every southerner is an evangelical - not even every southern Republican is an evangelical. My dad is a religious liberal and yet he is a republican. I knew republicans in the Unitarian church and I knew a few Dems in the Baptist church. I live in Metro Atlanta, and parts of the Metro area are mostly conservative, while other parts are very progressive. One county in Georgia is trying to add stickers to science textbooks - One county out of the 159 Georgian counties. Yet, the posts here make it sound like every single resident of the 159 Georgia counties are demanding evolution be removed from schools - it just ain't so. In fact, Georgia's republican superintendent of schools tried to have evolution removed from the GA curriculum, but there was such a stink WITHIN the state of Georgia that it was very quickly added back into the new performance standards.
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Shoeempress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. I don't hate southerners or northerners, I hate southern and Northern
right wing extremists. I also hate west coast and middle American right wing extremists. Trust me there are more than enough right wing extremists up here in New England for me to be able to hate all of them regardless of location or vocal cord vibrations. I also know some republicans who are not extremists but with whom I disagree politically although can often find common ground.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. I don't hate extremists and bigots
I hate what they stand for and what they do.

Hate is a rapidly-spreading cancer that we have to fight. Our ideas are better and more powerful than the ideologies represented by small-minded bigots and hate-mongers. We have to be stronger than they are. We have to stand and shout, not hide behind smug self-assurance.
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
148. Amen
Can I get a alleluia? No? Didn't think so. :silly:

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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
149. Amen
Can I get a alleluia? No? Didn't think so. :silly:

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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. I don't disagree that stereotypes of the south are bad....
But much in the same way I have a problem with people equating religion with things like gender and skin pigmentation or race is that having biases agains things which can be changed and are choices is different than biases against things which someone has no control over.

We choose our religion, we choose whether to believe or worship or not. If we choose this, then we also choose the burden of defending this choice if it comes under attack, rather than simply attempting to exempt ourself from any criticism or scrutiny just because it makes us uncomfortable.

We choose where we live. Yes there are many factors involved but ultimately if we choose to live in a place it is our job to make it better and if necessary to defend it from attack. Not simply to exempt ourselves from those attacks.

I choose to live in New Jersey, about which jokes are made on a daily basis. Do they annoy me because they are rooted in stereotype rather than informed fact? Yes. But I would in no way call someone a bigot if they made fun of New Jersey, nor would I ever put my choosing to live in New Jersey as a struggle on par with someone who is black or who is a woman. Big difference. I can always move. They can't change being black or being a woman.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. i think it's resentment more than a dislike..
I believe some people have grown tired of the perception that if the Dems are to ever win the White House again, that it will have to be with a candidate from the South. You begin to wonder why you have to acquiesce to the needs of a specific region, and the resentment starts to build up.

Frankly, I'm tired of the Iowans essentially determining which candidate should be selected. People like to support a winner, and the Iowa Caucus has a tremendous effect on the way some folks decide to vote in their primaries. I think ALL primaries should be held on the same date.

btw.. I've worked and played with many folks from the South, and y'all are some of the nicest people on the planet, next to Canadians.
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ilovenicepeople Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
104. as a Canadian I must confess...
I was bigoted towards southerners due to their speach,I concidered them to be abit slow just because of how they sounded.I'm ashamed to admit that I found it easy to slip into that stereotype (SORRY!) Nowadays I hope that I have matured? I wish that I had visited the USA prior to the Pre-emptive ERA.

:hi:
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. I like Southerners
Pretty cool, a lot of them that I have met. It's funny how preconceived ideas affect your thinking. I live in a very mixed, multi-ethnic area. I mean mixed, just about any immigrant culture with a predominance of pan-Asian peoples. But we have Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Samoans--you get the picture. Now, a lot of folks would automatically assume that the problems would come from the immigrants or the people of color on my block. Nope. It's from the white family across the street. Dope-dealin' car-stealin' crack smokin' four broke down cars parked on the street gov'ment cheese eatin' peckerwoods. The punks probably voted for bush, if they bothered to vote at all. (I'm white) We have to call parking enforcement on a regular basis just to keep the hunks of car junk to a reasonable level. Anyway, my point is there are a lot of people in the world who deserve the word asshole, and it doesn't seem to be concentrated in one geographical area. Lots of good folk from the south. Lots of assholes from the "left coast" Best to judge people on their own merit. Not where they live, or where they're from.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Personally, I say it's readers vs. non-readers.
Seriously. Those of us who read, those of us who stay informed, those of us who get news online or from print sources, voted for Kerry by a significant margin. Those who get most of what they know about the world from TV voted for * by a wide margin. The big, wide rural areas of the US use TV as their principal source of national and international news. The urban areas have newspapers, national-scope magazines, and their citizens must interact with persons from foreign countries such that the discourse is vastly more informed. Fact is, the right wing controls TV and, for the most part, radio too. We on the left need 2 or 3 complete, liberal, TV networks with 24 hour news stations (like FOX) before we will be able to compete with the Republican propaganda machine. The truth is on our side, but the truth is not enough any more.

-Laelth
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Love the avatar! From the village voice?
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. Thanks. Not sure where I saw it originally.
Probably floating around here. I liked it too, obviously. A picture says a thousand words.

:toast:

-Laelth
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Hans Delbrook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
92. Yes!!!
It's funny - I made myself a bumper sticker:

Proud Member of the Kerry Blue Nation
I think. I Read. I use big words. :evilgrin:
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
150. The idiot box voting block
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. gotta remember too, especially since 9/11 there has been a
great shift in the religious and south. they have fed their anger and hate, and orginaztions have done it in their power of them. i watched the shift from a more loving south to come to this anger and hate. the last three years has created a denseness around them, that prevent them to see. this is extraordinary what has happened. this use to not be so representitive of the south. they too were progressing. they took huge steps back, because their leaders directed them falsely and evily in that direction. yes it is theirs to figure out, they have the respoinsibility in this, but there are reasons for this hate. we can call it like it is. i chose to.
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Protagoras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. I don't like the people who live behind me
who abuse their home schooled children, who leave trash all over their yard, who let weeds perpetually grow thru their fence into my yard, and who let everything on their house rust and peel so that it looks like a damn shack (in a rather upscale neighborhood).

Does that make me a bigot?

BTW that doesn't have anything to do with my opinion of southerners...just wondering if I have to use similar logic.
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Nordic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. I just hate stupid people
there seems to be more of them in the South.

I love the South by the way. I love the people there, the ones I've met and worked with are terrific.

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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. No, I judge people on what they say with those vocal chords, or do with
that skin.

I don't like bigots, no matter where they are from.

The south has a major lock on them for some time now.

Just a fact.

That doesn't make any other place free of bigotry, but if you close your eyes, and throw a dart in any region of tho south, you are overwhelmingly likely to hit a bigot.

That's just the way it is.

Sorry if it ruffles your chains.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #31
96. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #96
110. Distribution of bigots throughout the USA.
As you can easily see here, the odds of throwing a dart and hitting a bigot are pretty even across the USA, though they do seem to slightly favor the upper West and MidWest. Idaho would be your best bet.


I am keenly aware of my all too human internal layers of covert fears and prejudices, though I did grow out of projected hatred for Geographical Locations sometime in late childhood. I was fortunate enough to travel extensively and live in many different parts of our beautiful country. Actually getting to know people from different cultures is the best way to remove irrational prejudices.


Have you tried traveling?
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SaintLouisBlues Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #110
175. Reminds me of a Mark Twain quote:
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things can not be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

-- Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
103. Just the way it is?
Throw a dart at Indiana. You'll likely hit a KKK'er. The Skokie case was not in the South, it was in Illinois!

We've come a lot further in race relations in the South than many in the north and midwest have come. Is there room for improvement? You betcha. EVERYWHERE.

That was a cheap shot, and your "fact" are wrong.

Bake
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Jackie97 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
172. Hello?
Think about the fact that 55 million voted for Kerry and 58 million voted for Bush. That only leaves a three million difference, and it left most of the US looking like some sort of "red" country because of the electoral votes being won.

Obviously, the problem isn't just in the southern part of the United States. The South is just more vocal.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
19. Mt great-uncle Clifford Sondley...
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 01:13 PM by Tandalayo_Scheisskop
Wrote what still is considered the definative history of early NC. He was a real renaissance man and very enlightened. Another ancestor, at the end of the Civil War, stood down the KKK, so he could continue to give medical care to the freed slaves. The vote to seceed from the union, by SC, took place in the back yard of one of the family homes in Abbeville, SC(malaria in Columbia forced the state assembly to meet there).

I love the south and southern people. My roots there go back to the 1600s. That said, when I see what I am seeing now, I am upset that they have, yet again, been duped by itenerant tent preachers who mean nothing of what they preach. But there is a rich history of that as well.
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. I'm a southerner. But I hate ignorant southerners.
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 01:24 PM by YellowRubberDuckie
If you're not ignorant...I don't hate you. Of course, I hate anyone who's ignorant, so I guess it's not just southerners.
Duckie
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. I don't like southerners who voted for Bush.
Equating "vocal chord vibrations" with racism is a bit of stretch, don't you think?

As for all those good "liberal" and "enlightened moderate" white voters, where were they at polling time?

If white "southerners" are as decent and common as you propose, shouldn't we be awaiting the nomination of Kerry?

Or was it all the damned Yankees who've moved south who voted for him?
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BlueInRed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
125. Diebold prevalent in South
While a good number of Southerners did vote for Bush, don't be so sure about the accuracy those numbers. Georgia has 100% computerized voting, mostly Diebold; remember the sudden upsets of Cleland and the D Gov. in 2002? And Texas is predominately computerized as well. In fact, if you look at the map of where all the DREs are currently located, they are in widespread usage down here and have been for awhile.

I also know the poll results didn't match with what I heard people saying. Yes, Bush would have won, but I believe not by as much if there wasn't vote fraud. If you really believe Bush stole the election elsewhere, you ought to at least consider that he used all those Diebold machines spread through the South to boost his vote margin, so he could claim a mandate.

And as an aside, condemning entire states is just not logical nor liberal (ie, open-minded and progressive). Even in the reddest of Southern states, people are condemning 35% to 45% of the population who didn't vote Republican, as well as all those who didn't vote for whatever reason, such thinking their vote wouldn't count. When you are condemning a 1/3 of the population for something they disagreed with, it is an unfair prejudice. Be mad at Bush voters in the South, but that doesn't mean that all people in the South should be lumped in. I don't hear a lot of people saying "I hate Idaho" or "I hate Utah" or "I hate Montana". Why is that, I wonder. They voted as strongly, if not more strongly for Bush as the Southern states.
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Kipepeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. I haven't noticed any overt southern prejudice here
I've lived in a blue state for the past few years but I will always be southern born and raised.

I think most DUers recognize that southern liberals do the hardest work in the most important places, and that they necessarily have tougher skin, being a political minority in their region and having to put up with a lot of shit.

I don't understand what's driving all of these southern threads, unless it's the posting and reposting of that fuckthesouth link and the comments that followed. I didn't read many of the comments but the link itself doesn't offend me as a southerner. I thought it was funny. Bombastic on purpose to get a laugh out of you. And it's clearly not targeted at southern liberals, but at the south in general, at the majority-opinion when it comes to politics in the south. The majority opinion does deserve to be made fun of. The majority opinion is for Bush. I know this every time I go home. It's not hard to know how most of the people in my hometown voted without even asking them. My sister is still there and refers to herself as a closet democrat because she doesn't have that tough-skin you have to get yet and so she keeps her politics secret, for fear of being belittled by every fucking person at her school.

Anyway, my point was just to say that I didn't realize there were people here who would be so stupid as to dislike someone for where they're born and raised. I haven't seen many of them anyway.

But we shouldn't confuse criticism of Bush voters with criticism of southerners. I have seen some of that oversimplification...as if no one voted for Bush in the rest of the country. Puh-lease.

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prof_science Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
24. Yes, I'm a bigot...
...I guess I AM a bigot. If those "vocal cord vibrations" say "Gays should burn in hell," "Torch them rag heads," or "I enjoy NASCAR," than I'm a raging bigot.

OK, the NASCAR line was a joke...

These types live North, South, in Massachusetts, Cali, everywhere. And I don't like them anywhere.
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
25. Sorry, but the south has expressed open bigotry for years
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 02:10 PM by Cat Atomic
towards many groups, inlcuding the north and the west. The mainstream dialogue is filled with it- and nobody seems to be ashamed of it. Elected officials aren't ashamed of practicing open bigotry and fostering hatred of "northern elitists", or the "left coast", or what have you.

Our own PRESIDENT can do it openly, mocking Massachusettes and other liberal states, and nobody even bats an eyelash.

What you're seeing right now is a whole lot of northern and western liberals who are sick of being insulted by southern conservatives. It's not constructive, but I think it's understandable.

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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. We southerners consider Bush one of yours, from Kenneybunkport.
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
57. Southern liberals might....
...but his voters clearly don't, which is the vast majority of The South. They've embraced him.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #57
95. Around here, the vast majority embraced their pocketbook.
34% of the economy of the Panhandle is based on the military presence. Third largest industry in Florida.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #33
141. then you are considering wrong
Maine didn't make him governor.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Bush is one of yours not ours
Sorry :).
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. Doesn't really matter where he was born.
My only point in referencing Bush was that a national politician can villify a whole region of the country openly, and nobody seems to mind. In fact, his constituency loves it.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. yeah and thus we should do the same to the south?
I fucking mind that he bewittles the northeast btw.
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. No- but it's understandable that some people are pissed off by it, and
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 03:48 PM by Cat Atomic
it makes southern cries of "bigotry" look silly.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
68. You guys are the ones that love him
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #37
116. Whose? Kennebunkport's?
Certainly not the South's.

Bake
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
112. Shhh!
bush* and his family are from Connecticut.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #112
142. CT didn't make him governor either
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
190. You got it!
You're absolutely right. And if stupid, backward people aren't the majority in red states, why is Bush* in the white house?
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tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
29. I'm a southerner. Been one all my life.
Born in Louisiana, schooled at Ole Miss, working in Austin, and moving to New Orleans some day. I've seen the retardation up-close.

My first college roommate was a hillbilly from Mississippi's delta. When asked why he was voting for Dole over Clinton in '96, he told me, "because all the n*ggas n' fags are votin' for Clinton." And what's really sad is that he felt completely free to say this in front of a crowd of his hillbilly friends. Instead of derision, I saw a few nods of approval or just silence.

I saw this attitude repeated a good number of times in my 4.5 years spent in Mississippi. My inlaws are from Alabama; I've seen it there as well. I see it in my own cajun relatives in Louisiana. Whomever the African American community supports, the rednecks want to lose. It's a disgusting and more-widespread-than-I'd-thought attitude, and the people who hold this mindset get no respect from me. My root dislike is for these 55% of southerners who insist of demonstrating policy insanity and hatred to the rest of the world.

I look at the higher poverty rates, the higher divorce rates, the consistently crappiest school systems in the nation, the lower IQs, the trend towards more teenage pregnancies, the desire to eliminate evolution from science classes.. and then I see that they still vote the way they do, expecting things to get better magically. It's the definition of "insanity" right out in the open for the whole world to see.

There are tons of Red State Blue Voters out there. I'll probably be one for my lifetime, barring some seismic demographic shift or political realignment. They are my brothers and sisters in intelligent thought. They are archipelagos of hope in a sea of idiocy. And they are super-strong for what they fight for every day.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
80. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #80
87. I'm ready!
I was born in Metairie, and spent my childhood in Kenner. While that may be a suburb of New Orleans, I also spent most of my time in private Catholic schools.. a pretty conservative environment. I remember many kids in my class with "David Duke" stickers on their notebooks and binders. A few of them even had "KKK" written on their textbook covers. {and this was grade school.. :(}

Went to an all-boys' Catholic high school in Metairie (you can guess which one). By 6th grade, I'd figured out that I was gay, so my plan was to lay-low until college. Worked like a charm, but the attitudes in school were also pretty clear. In my freshman year there, two athletes (a wrestler and a football player) were caught "playing" with each other in a locker room bathroom stall. In the following days, we prayed for them at the beginning of each class. (nevermind that I wanted to meet those guys.. :P)

The divide between New Orleans proper and Kenner/Metairie is much larger than I'd thought. When I move to New Orleans, I'll be careful about where I choose to live. It'll be sooo wonderful.. :D
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #87
127. Grace King High School?
I went to all-boys Catholic high school in New Orleans, until I was kicked out. Can you guess? By the way, do you remember what I said that merited my previous post being deleted? Was it because I said they have inbred uncle-fuckers in the South? I live here so I know. All I have to do is drive one hour out of town and I'll hear "nigger" or "fag" in every other sentence. I hated LSU because it is the ultimate racist school (KKK groups/neo-Nazis), though they treat dem fooball playas real good, like livestock. UNO is much better as it is the most integrated school in the South, where one can shoot spitballs at the likes of David Duke and get cheered on. ;)
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Lost Creek Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
32. Born and Raised in the south - Don't like most southerners
Live in Colorado now and it is not much better.

Half of all Americans could fall dead and I would rejoice.

Guess which half.....
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #32
143. Move to a blue state
we have our idiots too... they just aren't the majority
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RadioLeft Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
34. The Republicans have parlayed hate into a working majority
I am originally from Baltimore, MD. But, I have lived most of my life in the South - Atlanta, GA and now Dallas, TX.

The Republicans have a proud heritage. In 1956, Maude B. Richardson seconded the nomination of Dwight Eisenhower for re-election at the Republican National Convention. She was the first African-American to address a national convention of a major political party in the United States.

But, by the 1960's that was changing. Lyndon Johnson got the Civil Rights Act passed. The Southern segregationists left the Democratic Party over the next few years.

Richard Nixon's "southern strategy" used the disaffection with the Democrats embrace of integration and civil rights to bring segregationists into the Republican Party.

By 1980, this transition was largely complete. The first campaign appearance by Ronald Reagan after being nominated at the Republican National Convention was Philadelphia, Mississippi. Philadelphia is the location of one of the most heinous civil rights incidents.

Twenty black churches were burned in Mississippi during the Summer of 1964. James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner were civil rights organizers in Mississippi that Summer. They were arrested and put in the Neshoba County jail in Philadelphia and then released in the evening. They were followed out of town by a KKK members and sheriff's deputies who murdered them and hid the evidence in a swamp. The film "Mississippi Burning" is titled for the church burnings that Summer, but, focuses on the murder of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner.

So, when Ronald Reagan went to Philadelphia Mississippi as his first campaign stop, it was to signal Southern racists that they had a home in the Republican Party.

There's bigotry everywhere. But, the Republicans exploited this bigotry to create a white majority in Southern states. And, they did it by playing on Southerners' fear that they would lose their jobs and lose control of their governments, schools, etc. to blacks.

This is really no different from the way that Bush played the "terror card" in the November election to exploit people.

So, while it isn't fair to say that all or even most Southerners or Red-Staters are bigots, it is absolutely true that the Republican Party exploits hatred and bigotry to create a solid voting block in the red states.

The real problem is the failure of the Democratic Party to convince working class people of all races, religions, and sexual orientations that they have more interests in common than they have differences.

As long as the Republican Party gets away with using fear, hatred, and Jesus to motivate voters, those voters will be unreachable by us.

If I were the next Democratic president, I think that I would force the issue of education and pour as much money and resources into public education as possible. When the schools and education level of people in red-states are improved, we will disempower the Republicans.

Why do you think that the Republicans oppose the minimum wage, excellent public schools, living wage, affordable housing, etc.? Because the more working people who are living in survival mode, working multiple jobs, and one check away from homlessness, the fewer of them vote, and easier it is to use fear to motivate them.

Take a look at this: IQ correlated to state. There's information about education level, school quality, etc. correlated to red vs. blue states as well as the IQ data.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
61. Hi RadioLeft!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
38. I like southerners just fine, but explain why Atwater's SOUTHERN STRATEGY
still works
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muse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Southern Strategy still works because of racisim in the South
It just simply hasn't gone away. That group of Southerners sometimes will, sometimes won't admit it, but they are tied to the Republican party in large part because of the Southern Strategy - they still are anti-Civil Rights. They are anti a lot of things. That's the basis of their loyalty to the Republican party. They are true conservatives. They don't want progress. They want things the way they used to be - with whites in the majority and in power, with the 10 commandments on federal property and prayer in schools. They want easy solutions and they are super "religious" and they will believe anything their pastor tells them.

From a southern state Democrat.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #40
90. Racism worked real well for Pete Wilson, too.
His "Just Blame the Mexicans!" platform got him two terms as governor of the nation's largest state.

Racial appeals are not limited to the South, and this is not the only place where they are effective.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
39. It's shocking to discover bigotry on the left, isn't it?
Just. Shocking.
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muse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Liberals are supposed to be tolerant
and think things through - look for solutions. We need for everyone to apply that type of liberal thinking and attitude to the Democratic strategy in the south. There were millions of democratic votes in the South. The voters for Bush ranged from far right-wing crazed fundies to those who would have voted Kerry with a little more persuading, perhaps a different candidate, emphasis on different issues, fair voting practices, etc. Let's quit the South-bashing. Not productive and not worthy of our liberal heritage.

Posted by a Texan
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stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #42
115. Why do you believe Democrat= Liberal?
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maxudargo Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
41. Why are the Southerners getting all the flack? Why not the Midwesterners?
If you look at a county-by-county electoral map, it isn't the deep South that's fanatically pro-Bush, it's the Midwest. Places like Oklahoma (I don't think one county went for Kerry), Kansas and Nebraska.

If we are going to hate by region, let's at least get the right region.
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muse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. Thank you.
At least here in Texas, we had our Rio Grande Valley counties go for Kerry as well as Travis County (Austin). Arkansas came into play late in the game. Florida, obviously is primed to tilt back into our column. Look at the Louisiana counties that went Dem. Same in Georgia and Mississippi. There is a lot of fertile ground there. On the other hand, the midwest is a wasteland.
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #41
60. Bull
Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, and Illinois all went for Kerry. Midwestern states, all. Please list any and all southern states that went to Kerry. I'll wait patiently.

Oklahoma is a southern state by any standard. So don't try to hawk them off on the midwest.
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maxudargo Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #60
85. Ok, you're right. We should all hate Southerners.
Thanks God I've seen the light and we can now march together to victory.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #60
94. We barely carried WI, MI, and MN,
even though those have long been Democratic strongholds. That's something we should be very concerned about, and sitting around here making masturbatory posts about how bad the South is will not fix that problem, now will it?

And no, no one considers Oklahoma a Southern state. Just because you think so does not make it so.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #41
86. I can say for sure that not one county voted Kerry in Nebraska.
If my Southern neighbors have a visible Democratic party aparatus, they have lapped the midwest twice.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #41
93. Yep, the last time Indiana went Democratic was 1964.
Yet I have not seen a wave of Indiana-hating around here.
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Stephanjnj Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
44. I voted for the only REAL Southerner on the 2004 National ticket
His name is John Edwards, and he is a Senator from North Carolina. I also voted for him in this year's Maryland Presidential primary.
Connecticut born and Yale "educated" George W. Bush pretends to be a Texan, which he isn't, and Texas is considered more southwest than southern anyway. At any rate, most reasonably intelligent people won't judge others by their geographic origins or speech mannerisms -- it's what they stand for that counts.
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Is It Fascism Yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #44
66. He's a great guy, isn't he? Edwards for pres in 08, but lets count votes
this time
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
51. I have nothing against southerners....
...I just hate The South.



As long as they keep flying Dixie and referring to the Civil War as the "War of Northern Aggression", the onus is on The South to let go of its bigotry, not on the rest of us to stop pointing it out.

What, exactly, did we do to earn the animosity the animosity of The South? Why, we insisted that they stop enslaving other human beings, and then we had the audacity to insist that those freed human beings not be treated as second-class citizens because of their race! For shame!
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MISSDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #51
178. 40% of Mississippians who voted
voted for Kerry/Edwards.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
52. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
53. I don't hate Southerners...
I'm from a red state (MO), and I just think that the intelligent people of the South are all too often overshadowed by large numbers of fundies who settle there. :)
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Is It Fascism Yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #53
65.  Yankee born and raised in Connecticut but I love the south!
Of course I love the south! I married a guy from Tennessee! We just don't like the people who are bigoted, racist, or religious fanatics, but we don't like those people even if they are from NY, Chicago or LA! My Nashville Cat doesn't like those types either! And there are plenty of racist, bigoted, religious fanatics everywhere, that is true. Funny thing, though, the KKK has tried to hold some rallies in Connecticut, and pretty much got laughed outa town on every occasion. I mean, people let them speak, because, we knew we had to respect their civil liberties to speak, but, they have not been able to establish much of a New England contingent. Maybe one or two brain damaged types, but nothing more, nothing promising, it was the coldest shoulder. Following that logic, am I wrong to assume there is more support for racist supremacy theories in the south? And, is it true that many southern schoolboards are now rejecting science in favor of theology when addressing creation theory? Well, now, you see these indicators are what makes us Yankees think maybe the south, as a whole, is not being as progressive as it could be. I know how you feel being a liberal in a conservative place, though, since I now live in Arizona, which is so far right it makes your head hurt. So right it really is wrong.
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Carson Donating Member (560 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #65
151. I'm a Southerner living in the South, and the KKK is laughed out of town
here as well. The last time they had a little parade while handing out literature, it was like "Ho hum. Look at the idiots."
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
54. Carter, Clinton, Gore, Edwards
Southerners.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
56. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center
Many hate groups are centered in the Northeast, the MidWest, and the West Coast, including the KKK, Racist Skinheads and Neo-Nazis.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp

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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. South Dakota, that bastion of tolerance....
...has zero, I see. The number of hate groups seems to correspond well with the relative population density of each state. Kind of funny where the hate groups seem to be the most dense, though. Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, the Carolinas....

Thanks for making my point for me.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. Actually, it's NY City area that's densest
It regularly makes the top 10 according to the SPLC

But some will only see what they want to see.
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #70
81. Is that per capita?
If so, then I will admit that I was wrong on that point. But I did point out earlier that the number of dots corresponded well with population density. However, while Mississippi and Alabama have fewer people than Minnesota or Wisconsin, they have a significantly higher number of dots. Yet someone here described the midwest as a "wasteland" while The South had a lot of "fertile ground".

Again, if New York is in the top ten *per capita*, then I will concede that I was wrong, but the trends don't point in that direction.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
64. BFD
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
67. I've lived in the South since I was ten. And I still hear regular ...
... negative comments about Yankees. Some folk down here really need to get over that Late Unpleasantness betwixt the States.
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Is It Fascism Yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #67
77. LOL
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
71. Actually were not really
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 05:01 PM by Geek_Girl
As Red and Blue as the media wants to make out we are mostly purple all across the country, except that weird midwestern area. The South is made up of liberals and Conservatives and is the North. The North is just a bit more liberal is all.

Purple America


But personally I'm starting to feel a strong sense of Bigotry towards Christian fundamentalist. I know in my heart it's wrong but I just can't stand them anymore.
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Is It Fascism Yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #71
78. With you on that
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 05:09 PM by Is It Fascism Yet
I don't know if you can call it bigotry to hate people who are trying to stomp all over your civil liberties and control your life. I like to think of it as rightous anger toward push, meddling, controlling fanatics of any kind. I don't mind if people want to be fanatic quietly in private, but they can keep it off of me.
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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
72. Am I also a bigot if I don't like all African-Americans?
Because I can't fucking stand Alan Keyes, Clarence Thomas, or Condoleezza Rice! If that makes me a "bigot," then so be it.


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Is It Fascism Yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #72
79. Bravo, great choices for the top 10 most disliked humans on the planet
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 05:10 PM by Is It Fascism Yet
But it's not because of their race, it's because they are assholes.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #72
82. Fuckin'-A brother!
Smack 'em upside the head with some logic! :D

Not that they doesn't exist elsewhere, the South is densely populated with inbred uncle-fuckers.

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enki23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
74. northerners, for the most part, don't *hate* southerners.
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 05:44 PM by enki23
southern hate for northerners is very, very real. northerners, on the other hand, are more likely to be contemptuous of the south than to really hate it. a fair number consider southerners to be slack-jawed inbreds, no doubt, but that's not the same thing as hate. it's contempt. and yes, it's definitely prejudicial, maybe even bigoted. but it's not quite hate.

the whole north-south thing is interesting to me. even on DU, nobody seems to mention the very real, very poignant hatred of northerners that is a defining part of so many southerners's view of the world. the hate mostly blows north. hell, i didn't even *know* i disliked the south till i lived here. i never thought about it, actually. southern whites, on the other hand, still seem to be freshly pissed off over losing civil war. hell, people here in south louisiana talk shit about yankees from north louisiana. god help a new englander who tries to make headway among the rank and file down here.

well, i've lived here for a couple years now. in that time, i've learned i do happen to hate a sizeable majority of southern whites. i didn't before, really, but i do now. thing is, i don't hate them because they populate the south. i hate them because they're assholes. and i hate the south because it's heavily populated by them.

here's where i have to add the obligatory but that should, but never seems to go without saying: there are *plenty* of assholes who don't live in the old slave states. thing is, the concentrations aren't quite the same, and it really seems their virulence isn't quite the same. i don't need any more evidence to back that than this election's vote tallies. in my estimation, bush voters are--by definition--assholes.
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #74
105. True , if I were driving to Florida with Massachusetts plates on my car...
I would drive around Georgia.
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #74
147. Never thought about it either until a trip into the South
Where people kept saying obnoxious things like "you people seem nice, for Yankees". I was reading "Confederates in the Attic" at the time, and couldn't really believe so many people still harbored so much resentment, but I sure saw it for myself with almost every interaction we had with people.

There's that whole conquered nation thing going on, which I am deeply familiar with from my own Irish family's unreasonable contempt for all things English or Irish-Protestant.

On the other hand, I must say a lot of stereotyping exists on our end - I dated a lawyer with an almost impenatrable Florida accent, and he said he used that prejudice all the time in the courtroom, where he was happy to let opposing counsel underestimate him.
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eauclaireliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
75. RE:"If you don't like Southerners, you are a bigot."
You should come up to N. Wisco and Minnesota sometime. The Mason-Dixie line has assholes on both sides...the only difference being "Y'all" and "well hello dere, folks."

BTW-two of the most wonderful, smartest women in the world-to me-come from Dallas and Navasota. Bev was one of my teachers in H.S. and the other, my step-daughter in law.

A bigot is a bigot is a bigot.

Yep.
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
76. Nothing in your post said people from the South ARE NOT bigots...
"I know plenty of people down here who judge people on the basis of skin pigmentation...." then go on about how folk judge "y'all" by your drawl as being bigots...

So what's your point- that we are correct? Prove to me tha "y'all" aren't racists...
see how easy your bigoted argument is? Nothing good can come from it.

It's just like "y'all" to request that someone prove a negative. Admittedly- THAT is a prejudicial statement on my part.

Tell us of southerners who have "fought the good fight" against racism... that would be a start to the healing. But almost 60 replies to your original post and not a single responce back. Telling, very telling.
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Sleepysage Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
83. I don't dislike all of them... but...
Political beliefs are not like skin color. They are mutable. They can be helped.

Sorry, but it's not the same.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
84. I FUCKING HATE SOUTHERNERS!!!...
... that voted for Bush. :D

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sonicx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
88. Southerners are fine, but not the Bushbots.
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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #88
97. Well if you put it
that way I guess I am. My dislike for people from the southeast goes far beyond this election.
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chicagojoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
102. Why are there so many dumb people down there???
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stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #102
114. They don't let blacks vote
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #114
124. Kinda like Ohio, eh?
Jim Crow was reborn in Cleveland this past election.
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zeek Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
106. I saw more recism in NJ then I now see in Alabama
I've lived all over this country, and no region has a monopoly on bigotry. I grew up in Camden NJ, I can honestly say I was faced with more racism there then I am now in Huntsville AL. The best place I've ever lived in terms of bigotry is Washinton (the state).
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stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
113. I've been " partners" with a southerner for 8+ years
She's from Mississippi, and can't stand southerners of the white variety, her brother fled the south 20 years ago, only to return for a second masters degree, and he can't stand southern whites. They are both proud to be bigots.

I join them in their cause.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:46 PM
Original message
I'm a white Southern man. And a proud liberal.
Don't write us all off. Unless you want to piss us off, which you're dangerously close to doing.

Bake
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
117. Yeee hawww!
Slap some grits on the stove, make some red-eye gravy and biscuits! Oh and umm...fire up the flamewar!

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AnIndependentTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
118. Does that mean if you don't like gays you are a bigot?
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RPM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. if you don't like lutfisk, you are a bigot
also if you don't like meatloaf, you are a bigot
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RadioLeft Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #118
126. You are asking the wrong question
There are lots of reasons to like or dislike individuals which have nothing to do with bigotry.

If you dislike an entire group of persons, it is likely that you are pre-judging them - meaning that you have a prejudice against them and that is bigotry.

But, there's another factor:

It is one thing to decide that you do not want to socialize with anyone who is a member of a group against which you are prejudiced.

It is something else to use your prejudice as a justification to refuse to hire or promote, to refuse to sell your home, to refuse service as your customers, or to enact laws to disadvantage members of a group you dislike.

Not wanting to invite gay people to dinner is very different from acting to deny them things to which they are entitled.

And, even if you prefer not to socialize with members of a particular group, what do you do when your child wants to invite his class at school to your home for a swimming pool party and some of the children in the class are members of the group against which you are prejudiced or whose parents are members of that group?

So, yes disliking all gay people is bigotry. But, you are entitled to your own prejudices as long as you are willing to refrain from using them to harm other people.

But, be prepared for the fact that many people will in turn dislike and marginalize you because of your prejudices. For example, if you have a problem with gay people, I'm simply not going to socialize with you or invite you to my home: I won't accommodate you by not inviting gay people into my home when you are invited. I'll drop you from the guest list since you are the one with the problem. And, I would not accept an invitation to socialize with you.

Ultimately, disliking any group of people will take you down a particular path in your life. And, you may discover yourself arriving at a destination that you don't much like.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #118
137. yes
if you don't like someone just because they are gay, you are a bigot.
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elderly man Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
120. I am a yankee who lives way up north
and I support The Southern Poverty Law Center which does more to fight discrimination, bigotry and hate than any organization I
know of.
I suggest DU'ers familiarize themselves with this organization.
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nomatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
121. I wouldn't know where you were from
unless you told me. You have no skin pigmentation or vocal cord vibrations in your font. I have no idea what country you are from either, but I will assume you are being truthful.
What I can tell from your post count, you haven't been here on DU for long. I don't see many people bringing up this subject unless it is connected with the election or red state.

I would like to ask you which candidate paraded around this country stating "He's a Massachusetts Liberal" ? "He's more liberal than Teddy Kennedy." That creepy smug look (you see on a bully) always followed. It should never be on face of the president. Especially one who is from Connecticut.

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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
123. Hey, I hate MOST southerners...and I'm southern
You've got to know them to hate them
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oc2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #123
134. Its so true, I lived my whole life in VA.
The 52% southern voters just dont get it. They will never vote for anyone thats not a dixie crat or a republican, no matter what.

NT.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
132. I'll take a southern belle any time.
That southern charm and sweet smile.
Just cause she's a proper lady dosn't mean she can't get down and dirty.
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Snellius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
135. Do you like the South?
If you had to make a choice between what you believe in and where you live, what side would you choose?
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
140. I hate wingnut Southerners
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 09:30 AM by Arkana
The others are all right. :)

From Jeff Foxworthy's "Totally Committed:"

"When people hear me talk, they automatically want to deduct a hundred IQ points. And, you know, to be honest, no one wants to hear their brain surgeon say, '*snort* Aight, now what we gon' do is saw the top o' yer head off, root around in 'ere with a stick and see if we cain't maybe find that dadburned clot.'

You'd be like, 'No thanks, I'll just die, okay?'"
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
144. I was married to a Southerner for over 10 years
In spite of our divorce she's still a trusted friend.

A toast to the post. Well said, harrison!

:toast:
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
145. Okay, I'll apologize
I took some cheap shots at the south that were perhaps uncalled for, and revealed a few of my own prejudices. It's something I need to look at and work on.

The fact is, though, that the south still have some issues they need to work out that go beyond your standard "hey, there's bigots everywhere". It's not even a question of the number of bigots per capita; my home state of Wisconsin has as many red-necks as any other state I've ever been to. But the divisions of the Civil War are still in place, and that needs to be addressed. It's going to require both sides to reach out, and it's going to take some time to heal. I don't see it happening as long as Republicans continue to stoke those old prejudices and encourage the south's "us v. them" mentality. I had seen some encouraging signs when I visited Mississippi; a lot of people are ashamed of their past of oppression toward racial minorities. But a lot of people are proud of it, and that needs to be dealt with.

By the way, regarding an earlier debate I was having regarding Oklahoma, OK's northern border runs smoothly with the northern borders of Arizona, New Mexico, Arkansas, Tennessee, and North Carolina. By my understanding, these are all considered southern states. Can someone explain exactly how it is, then, that Oklahoma could be considered a midwestern state? I'm willing to listen.
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
153. Not all Southerners are to blame, just the majority who voted Bush.
The anti-south sentiment seems to be widening. I have received this link 3 times now. Check it out to see where it comes from.

http://www.fuckthesouth.com
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
163. i loathe all Southerners & Northerners that voted for bush*...
every fucking one of them!

my wish/prayer to all bush supporters:
May you all die from your ignorance before it kills us all!
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Jackie97 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
168. I'm so proud to be a southerner.....
mostly because it gives me a chance to prove that Southern Americans are not inheritantly stupid as some northerners and non-Americans act like.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
173. There are still many Southerners that call we Northeasterners....
"un-patriotic" and "not American" (i.e: Richard "Dick" Petty and Hank Williams Jr. / Nascar/Country)

:eyes:

Let us remember this before start calling us NE people "bigots".
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Sleepless In NY Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #173
186. I guess I just dont understand southerners
I certainly don't think they are all ignorant or poor. But what baffles me is how can they have such a superior attitude about being "Real Americans" or "Moral". Truthfully, they are neither. The foundations of our country didn't start in the south. These people also kept slaves, I see nothing American about that. And they now lead in divorce, teen pregnancies & sexually transmitted diseases. Seems to me, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Not that I write them all off, because there is good and bad in every state, just seems they hold the majority in bad. Seems ok, when they are doing the bashing, and that includes their leader bush.

Maybe its time for a reality check. All I heard was how Floridians were so angry about Election 2000. They were so "angry" they reelected Jeb & GW. What's wrong with this picture?

Since the Civil Rights & Voting Acts were passed, the south has gone steadily republican. Yet, what do they have to show for it? They always seem to be crying poverty.

I also don't understand the attitude of Blue Voters in Red States. Whenever secession or cutting off Red State Welfare is mentioned, they get defensive. Why? Apparently the majority in your states won't listen to reason, so perhaps its time for more drastic action, to wake them up. And wouldn't that be to your benefit too?

If these people really think Northerners are too beneath them to associate with, then I respectfully suggest they stop taking our money too. Go lean on Florida or Texas.

Many years ago I attended a family reunion (not my family) in Virginia. A woman came up to me and said: "I hear you're from New York, I just hate that place!" Mind you, she had never been here and I remember thinking to myself..this is southern hospitality?

I just dont want to try & appeal to these people anymore, its obvious that gay marriage/ civil unions was just "coincidently" put on the ballot in 11 southern states same day as the presidential election. If thats their kind of "morality" they can keep it. If you want to talk "bigotry" you best look in your own mirror.



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FM Arouet666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
187. If what comes out of your mouth
is a voice of tolerance, understanding, and reason. Who cares if does so with a twang. :hippie:
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
192. I like a lot of southerners.
But the south is incressingly giving me the creeps. I don't see how decent people can stand living there these days.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
193. You Are Right, Harrison.
:thumbsup:
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