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AVID Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:42 AM
Original message
Is * GUILTY of genocide?
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bluetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. it seems that way to me.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Mass Murder more than Genocide
IMO
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. no.
i really want to preserve the "attempted extermination" aspect of the word "genocide".

bush's rhetoric is very inappropriately focused on racial and religious aspects of his targets of aggression, but the war is really about oil, and very secondarily, terrorism.

bush would be happy with a subdued native population as long as we had control of the oil.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Nuremberg: Aggressive War: Supreme International Crime
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 07:03 AM by G_j
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110904A.shtml

Aggressive War: Supreme International Crime
By Marjorie Cohn
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Tuesday 09 November 2004

Associate United States Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson was the chief prosecutor at the Nuremberg Tribunal. In his report to the State Department, Justice Jackson wrote: "No political or economic situation can justify" the crime of aggression. He also said: "If certain acts in violation of treaties are crimes they are crimes whether the United States does them or whether Germany does them, and we are not prepared to lay down a rule of criminal conduct against others which we would not be willing to have invoked against us."

Between 10,000 and 15,000 U.S. troops with warplanes and artillery have begun to invade the Iraqi city of Fallujah. To "soften up" the rebels, American forces dropped five 500-pound bombs on "insurgent targets." The Americans destroyed the Nazzal Emergency Hospital in the center of town. They stormed and occupied the Fallujah General Hospital, and have not agreed to allow doctors and ambulances go inside the main part of the city to help the wounded, in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions.

<snip>
There have already been 100,000 "excess" Iraqi deaths since Bush launched his first strike on Iraq 18 months ago - that is, above and beyond those killed by Saddam Hussein, sanctions, U.S. bombings, and disease, all put together, in the 15 months prior to the invasion.

<snip>
Bush's war on Iraq is a war of aggression. "Aggression is the use of armed force by a state against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this definition," according to General Assembly Resolution 3314, passed in the wake of Vietnam.
<snip>

Following the Holocaust, the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg called the waging of aggressive war "essentially an evil thing . . . to initiate a war of aggression . . . is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."


..more..

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110904A.shtml

----------------------------------

Statement by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert L. Jackson
Chief U.S. Prosecutor
at the Nuremberg Tribunals

August 12, 1945
on War Trials Agreement; August 12, 1945

There are some things I would like to say, particularly to the American people, about the agreement we have just signed.
For the first time, four of the most powerful nations have agreed not only upon the principles of liability for war crimes of persecution, but also upon the principle of individual responsibility for the crime of attacking the international peace.

Repeatedly, nations have united in abstract declarations that the launching of aggressive war is illegal. They have condemned it by treaty. But now we have the concrete application of these abstractions in a way which ought to make clear to the world that those who lead their nations into aggressive war face individual accountability for such acts.
<snip>

"We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which
their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the
war, but that they started it. And we must not allow
ourselves to be drawn into a trial of the causes of the war,
for our position is that no grievances or policies will
justify resort to aggressive war. It is utterly renounced
and condemned as an instrument of policy."

<snip>

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert L. Jackson
Chief U.S. Prosecutor
at the Nuremberg Tribunals
August 12, 1945

READ THE ENTIRE STATEMENT HERE:
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/jack02.htm

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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. "aggressive war" is definitely more appropriate a term than "genocide".
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. yes, that is why I posted this
these statements are very clear and leave little room for ambiguity.
I'm unclear on who could effectively bring charges against the admin though, as the US has refused to acknowledge the International Criminal Court, The Geneva Convention etc.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. nazi germany didn't acknowledge the nuremburg trials
that didn't stop the international community from holding them accountable.
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firebee Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. I believe the actual crime is...
"Breaching International Security" according to the U.N. Charter and the Geneva Convention.
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Cornedwine Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
8. I hate him so much..
I have been crying every day since the mock election..
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
9. Genocide? Not yet
But I can come up with at least 2 dozen other violations of the Geneva and Hague Conventions.
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AVID Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. but a close second
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Bhaisahab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. not yet, but give him some time..
... after all, he's not even settled down to his coveted "FOUR MORE WARS"
seeessh.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
12. I don't know
but I'd sure love for a tribunal at The Hague to find out.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:57 AM
Original message
Won't do it unless a sovereign nation presses charges.
eom
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
13. Ethnic cleansing.
Both Koffi Anan and Noam Chomsky have said that the invasion of Iraq is a war crime. Unfortunately, a sovereign nation has to bring up charges in the Hague World Court to get them put on trial.
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FatSlob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
14. No, he isn't trying to exterminate a race.
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Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. You're wrong.
He's trying to exterminate Arabs & Muslims. I don't see how you could see it any other way.
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FatSlob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yeah, right. that is absolutely absurd.
I hate the guy as much as anybody else, but thinking he is trying to exterminate all Arabs and Muslims is wholly absurd and without merit.
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