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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:12 AM
Original message
How can we paint the Rs
as the party which creates divisiveness by design through putting forth extemist policies. This is how they are holding power now. It is a tactic, not a true ideology with them. Only part of that party actually swallow that poinsonous concoction of religiosity and corporate greed. How do we counter it?
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Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is my guess
If they continue on this track of religious zealotry and censoring, then the Christian right will be happy and the Republican party will merge with the Christian right completely. Then, the moderate Republicans (fiscal conservatives who are not religious nutjobs) will leave the party and rally around some Ross Perot-ish third party candidate in '08.

I hope this happens because it will mean a win for us just like in 1992. :)

So, IMO, let them go crazy, the more extreme the better and we'll take back the country in 4 years.
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Francesca Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Read Lakoff's book for specifics
on reframing the argument.
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Shae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. That's a start, but ...
They own the media, and they count the votes.
Something needs to be done about that as well.
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No Mandate Here. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. Sanatorium is a start...
For three years he has billed a school district in a Pittsburgh suburb for cyber schooling five of his kids- to the tune of $ 38,000.00 this year alone, using a two bedroom house that he owns as his "legal" address. In Pennsylvania, this is technically legal, assuming :

1. He actually lives there. A neighbor, who just happens to be on the local school board, has "never seen him there." There are two other people who claim the same address as their voting address, and when the doorbell was rung, a "young man came to the door." and had no comment.

The conclusion I would reach is, not only do the Sanatoriums NOT LIVE THERE, they actually rent the house out.

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has been running with this and three threads have been going on DU for a couple days. We should look at all other reThug leaders for similar FRAUD on their constituents.

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... >

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... >

the other threads and links are in the second link.

Lets keep this flying from a tall flagpole.
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lawladyprof Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Hard to know where this is coming from
Since he has right-wing trying to pressure him to take Spector out of the running for judiciary chair.
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No Mandate Here. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. We need to expose these hypocrites for what they are...
Santorum setting his legal residence fraudulently.

Another direction should be to keep this 'civil war' between the hard right and the last remaining moderates in the news. Publicly ask questions such as "Why did Santorum and * so publicly back Specter in the primary against Toomey, when Toomey was so clearly more toward the hard right positions on everything?"

Basically, we should learn from President Rove. Any time we can see a slight wedge between parts of the reThugs, we should tap on it a bit. I am NOT advocating any of his more ridiculous tactics- election fraud assumes illegality, but helping create doubts among the reThugs is fine by me.
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Tesibria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
6. expose the hypocracy...
... I do NOT think that we should do what the Rs do and go 99% negative, but I DO think that we need to expose them as the hypocrite that SOME/MANY of them are.

They have laid claim to the MORALS mantle. We need to expose - early and often - their so-called morals. The louder a particular politician or religious group yells MORALS in a crowded theatre, the more we need to expose them. I find it interesting vis-a-vis the religious right that the two religous groups who screamed morals loudest in the 2004 election -- i.e., Baptists and Catholics -- are the two religious groups whose leaders have most often been exposed as pediophiles and child abusers.

See RedMorals for more.

Again, I feel very strongly that this should NOT be our primary message. Our message should be about how things SHOULD be. But at the same time, we need to debunk the "conventional wisdom" that somehow the Reds are entitled to the values/morals vote.

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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. With a good primer/sealer.
Sorry, couldn't help it.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. I would suggest a wagner sprayer.. enamel high gloss..royal blue
:)
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
9. We must de-fang the New Pharisees (the Religious Right)
Sadly, there is little hope of this happening any time soon because "we" (Liberals, Democrats, and freethinkers) have a number of incorrect ideas about the process.

1. "Religion must never be criticized."

Why not? The New Pharisees have no such compunction, and criticize every other religion as they please. On the other hand, they react to the slightest of criticisms as mortal blows delivered by a Satanic enemy. Anyone who has raised children (and many who have not) recognize the toddler's morality in this political tactic.

A large number of the beliefs and behaviors of the New Pharisees are at extreme divergence with Scripture. Their hatred of Gays is based on two or three verses; their anti-environmentalism is based on a handful of verses with different words they translate according to whim (like "dominion over the Earth"). "Scientific Creationism" is based on a single poorly-translated verse in Genesis that contradicts 1900 years of Catholic and 3000 years of Jewish exegesis.

Even a brief description of their internal inconsistencies and hypocrisies would require a huge section. Just the highlights (without descriptions or discussion) include:
-- the epidemic of False Witness bearing
-- turning Jesus into an Indo-European pagan death god
-- soothsaying, (ab)using Isiah and Revelations
-- presuming to speak for God ("The Jesus of ___ is not the Jesus of Scripture!")
-- Scriptural "lawyering"
-- the reduction of Salvation to an economic "contract" (called a "covenant" in Pharisee-Speak)
-- playing games with context
-- promotion of the King James Version of the Bible as fetish object (in this sense, the object of worship, not sexuality)
-- elevating humans to co-Messiahship (pastors, preachers, George W. Bush)
-- the idolatrous creation of a theocratic state
-- portraying themselves as victims while oppressing other people
-- the use of emotionalistic, reason-free conversion techniques which are similar to brainwashing and pagan ritual
-- presuming to make the decision of who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell
-- promotion of a martial (warlike) state of mind based on a few metaphors from St. Paul
-- promotion of warfare itself
-- accepting the pervasive influence of Sun Myung Moon (and his money)
-- willful involvement in public scandal (BCCI, Propaganda Due, the impeachment of President Clinton, pricey "Christian Gulags" for young people, the Nigerian Gold Scam)

Did I miss any?

2. "We did the same thing in the 1960s with Civil Rights."

No we didn't.

The implication is that there is a tit-for-tat correspondence between the Civil Rights movement and the Religious Right movement. But the only point of similarity is the use of the pulpit to spread the message.

The messages are far different. Civil Rights preached justice, relief for the oppressed, and the equality of all people before God. The Religious Right stands for the opposite of all these things -- privilege for their own particular clan, justification of oppression and enslavement, and the division of humanity into "The Saved" and "The Lost".

3. "If we fight them, we lower ourselves to their level."

This is based on the same tit-for-tat thinking as the last situation. For one thing, we need not fight the same way; and second, we are not fighting for the debasement of an out-group we have judged and seek to punish, but for the end of that kind of behavior.

The "principled" avoidance of struggle is usually NOT principled at all, but is an artifact of despair.

Summation

The marriage between the New Pharisees and Conservative politics is especially dangerous. Unlike Naziism and Communism, which were purely secular movements, the Religious Right compels belief through a state of naked fear, the fear of an eternity of torment and torture in Hell for apostasy (a belief invented by the apostle Paul, and not accepted by the Christian world until the late first millennium). Once, this was confined to belief in a particular version of Jesus-worship -- but now, the ideology demands acceptance of worldly politics as being divinely invested and yoked to Jesus.

Denying the Party means denying God and Jesus -- which results in condemnation to Hell for all time.

It is essential that we fight the New Pharisees of the Religious Right. They are the clearest threat to liberty -- and to the Gospel -- that has existed since the development of revolutionary and revisionist Marxism-Leninism.

--bkl
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Republicans = New Pharisees
Bumpersticker attack to get the attention of Bible readers.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
10. hate and bigotry.......white sheets of the 2000's n/t
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lawladyprof Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
11. You want to DO something to expose their hypocrisy
I have a concrete (and relatively easy although not short term--think in terms of 6 to 18 months) to accomplish much of what is being discussed on this thread. It wouldn't require any money, would not involve any major organization, and people could do it from their computers at home. It would take 10 people to start the ball rolling in each of three states. Please PM me if interested in doing something rather than just hand wringing and saying what we ought to do. I have a way accomplishing the goals set out on this thread.
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