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qnr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:14 AM
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Puritanism, not Fascism
The Guardian: Puritanism of the rich


...
Puritanism was primarily the religion of the new commercial classes. It attracted traders, money lenders, bankers and industrialists. Calvin had given them what the old order could not: a theological justification of commerce. Capitalism, in his teachings, was not unchristian, but could be used for the glorification of God. From his doctrine of individual purification, the late Puritans forged a new theology.
...
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:32 AM
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1. Calvinism
Yep. I think it contributed to the southern plantation owner's view that he was doing his Christian duty by keeping slaves and creating a grand society of workers and an educated elite.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Definitely Calvinism and some imperial fascism too
evangelicals of the W. position! :argh:
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. So desperate in their denial.
No, sweeties, it's fascism.
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:36 AM
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3. Oxford Companion to Philosophy
fascism. Political doctrine combining ethnic nationalism with the totalitarian view the the state should control all aspects of social life. Fascism is thus opposed both to liberalism -- individual liberty and fulfillment being held to be relative to the nation's, rather than vice versa -- and to communism -- class-identity and aspirations being held to threaten national unity. Fascism has presented itself as a tempting conclusion from three apparently plausible premises: the relativity of values to a culture; the rootedness of culture in social life of a nation; and the role of the state as the upholder of values. Political and cultural authority are assimilated and identified with a national will articulated by a national leader, who conceives his task (compare conservatism) as arresting national decline. The observed results constitute a reductio ad absurdum of the doctrine.

END QUOTE.

Note that today's ethnic nationalism is the haves and have mores opposed to the shrinking middle class and the low income population: social Darwinism. Eugenics, and it was the eugenics born in the U.S. of A. that Hitler imported.
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UL_Approved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. Fascism is an extension of Puritanism
If you look at what is adopted in the Fascist state, corporations come to rule a nation as they do in Puritanism. The difference is the addition of a totalitarian dictator as opposed to a diffuse leadership amongst the wealthy. The tendency toward a strong, centralized leadership made the distinction that Fascism is its own system of government. We really are living in a fascist state now, inclusive of both economic exploitation and centralized governmental control.
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Things equal to the same thing
are equal to each other. Puritanism has produced its own totalitarian dictators, Calvin himself among them. One of the reasons the Brits cling to the monarchy is that they remember what happened the first time they got rid of it, ie., Cromwell.

Okasha
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:42 AM
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6. Didn't these religious/business leaders also feel they knew best?
It sort of self feed its self. The 'good' owned and rules you, and they knew what was best. Ever read the old police or town reports on what they got people for under the law? You could see someone was into every one business ruling what they were doing. Only men who owned property could vote and also they had to be members of the (right) church. Each state set the church.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:36 AM
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7. Mussolini said Fascism should be called Corporatism.
I'm not one to argue Fascism with Il Duce.
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yep.
I would say people are trying to take the corporatism out of facism...can no do. Sorry if it hits a little to close to home for some folks.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. that is the key ....
Most of the religious folks are not in favor of polluting the environment. Yet one in four Americans lives close enough to a Super Fund Site to have their health impacted. Those Super Fund Sites are being brought to America from industry. Industry has lobbied the administration to turn back 30 years of progress in environmental progress in laws and policies that protect the public, clean up the SFS, and not allow business to create new ones in your neighborhood.

There are no religious institutions preaching that PCB-contaminated oils and TCE and related solvents are good things for people to ingest in quantities that will kill them. That's a corporate gospel.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. What do you know?
You don't even like
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yes but if they
made funny of the Rolling Stone I'd have laughed.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Bloody hell...
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 09:39 AM by indigobusiness
They polished the Apple! George even helped.

'Cheese and Onions' is a classic.


Cheese And Onions
(Nasty/McQuickly)
from the Rutle Soundtrack LP "Yellow Submarine Sandwich" PCS-7070, 1/17/69
Lead Vocal: Ron Nasty

I have always thought
in the back of my mind
Cheese and onions
I have always thought
that the world was unkind
Cheese and onions
Do I have to spell it out?
C-H-E-E-S-E-A-N-D-O-N-I-O-N-S-oh-no

Man and machine
Keep yourself clean
or be a has-been
like a dinosaur
Got a device
For everthing nice
You better think twice
at least once more
(repeats, fades)
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Actually,
very astute...as always.
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