Catholic DUers: Anecdotal reports of parish pressure to vote Bush?

[DeepModem Mom]

I am hearing anecdotal reports of pressure on Catholics in individual parishes to vote Bush that might indicate this as a bigger electoral factor than is realized. Examples:
Members being told by priests that they would have to go to Confession if they voted for Kerry.
Flyers comparing candidates' abortion stands passed out in Church parking lots not by Rep. campaign but by Church.
Surprise expressed that Bush did not get even more of the Hispanic vote, given the pressure exerted on Hispanic voters by their Catholic churches.

I'm just curious if DU Catholics, or other DUers, are hearing such things --

[H2O Man]

1. While the bishops supported Bush

I do not think most priests did. But the mainstream media did not cover this. (It's much like editors favor republicans; reporters favor democrats. It comes down to money. And the cone heads have the money.) I posted information about Catholic priests calling the Bush administration as being in opposition to the gospel,and calling for Bush's impeachment. These were from the Irish Echo, the largest Irish-American newspaper in the country.

[Maat]

2. I'm interested in whatever data you come up with.

But, remember, people may be afraid to speak (probably not DUers - but their friends and neighbors).

A church's tax-exempt status can be taken away if any of this is discovered to be true. And that means big money. A church would not hesitate to destroy a person reputationally or otherwise to keep that money flowing in.

[happynewyear]

3. NO Way

and please do not turn this into another Catholic bashing thread (it goes that way sooooo easy around here).

My priest condemned *'s actions after the Pope John Paul came out against the war. The Archbishop sent out a flyer saying that the Church has no interest in politics.

They were not "recommending" that anyone vote for anyone! Got that?

Got that?

Got that?

The answer is NO, it did NOT happen!

and least ... not around here ...

[fudge stripe cookays]

4. That's the operative point.

"around here."

How do you know what happened in all the cities and all the other states in this nation?

I'm a former Catholic, and I have no doubt that it's very possible.
FSC

[H2O Man]

10. Yes, it is possible

but it is important to have a balanced view. There seems to be more interest in the anti-Kerry Catholic priests than the anti-Bush ones. In an effort to be fair, we should consider both.

I mentioned the Irish Echo. It is the largest Irish-American paper in the country. A large percentage of the readers are Catholic. The paper took a strong position in favor of Kerry, and in opposition to Bush. This included heated debate that involved the positions of priests and bishops. I posted a letter that had a clear threat from the Bush administration's former ambassador to Ireland, which indicated there would be consequences for Irish/Irish-American support for Kerry.

Perhaps of equal interest would be a study how different ethnic groups vote in terms of the economic status. For example, the Irish immigrants and 1st-2nd generations tended to be democrats and pro-union. As the Irish reached higher economic status, those at the top began to identify themselves as republican. This same thing has happened in the black community. The Native Americans who "own" gambling casino/businesses tend to be republicans. This would seem the more serious study for DUers to undertake.

[DeepModem Mom]

8. Indeed, PLEASE do not turn the thread into bashing --

I am not a Catholic, but not anti-Catholic -- just interested in all the pieces of the puzzle (including voter fraud and suppression) that led to a second term for George W. Bush.

[Mandate My Ass]

5. A Catholic priest visited my mother's house before the election

Rather than taking on the whole congregation at a time, a priest in my mom's parish took it upon himself (?) to visit my mother on Nov. 1st. He told her the upcoming election was very important and that she was required, as a practicing Catholic, to vote pro-life.

My mother brought up the war and he told her that her concerns about the war were admirable but irrelevant and that voting pro-life was the only option open to her. He never said Bush by name, but then again he didn't have to.

My mom voted for Kerry.

Edited to add this is not a Catholic bashing post. My mom is a devout Catholic and a very compassionate, ethical person, as are most of the practicing Catholics I know and have known.

[democraticinsurgent]

6. Happened in Indianapolis

I'm aware of someone whose priest implored the congregation to vote for Bush. This was on the southern edge of Indianapolis--very white/conservative area.

[ramapo]

7. Happened in NJ and NY

A catholic coworker told me both her church in NNJ and her sister's in NY had instructed voters in voting "properly" as in Bush.

[rhino47]

9. Sadly I a life long catholic meet with my parish priest and lawyer today.

It really saddened me to take this step.I went to mass on the Sunday before the election.I parked my car in the private church parking lot.I came out and there was an anti-choice ad very pro bush on my windshield.It was from the republican federal committee.I called mons karg .When I spoke to him I was rather detailed in being offended at the fact my church was being used to promote * agenda.
It had that kerry was for partial birth abortion,that bush wasnt .It only dealt with abortion.I asked the priest why capital punishment ,iraq wasnt on it.His first defense was that happened every election year.My argument is that if you knew it was going to happen why not stop it?Why risk my parish`s tax exempt status.
He then lied to me.He said he didnt mean every election year.My children go to catholic school at this parish.If they can not secure a parking lot how are they going to keep my children safe?Again no response.
I am meeting with a constitutional lawyer and the mons karg today.
I want ANY Political ligature to be banned from the church`s grounds.
I go to mass to worship not to be hounded by zealots who actually feel im an idol worshiping freak.

[fudge stripe cookays]

13. Thank you for doing this rhino.

I know it's gotta be hard to take this step. Especially involving lawyers. But everyone needs to be doing this. These people have got to understand that they are not dictating our vote.

You might also want to remind your clergyman, that although abortion is wrong, it will still occur, legal or not, and whether he wants God to lose TWO lives instead of just one. I know one will be a scarlet woman, though. See if that makes a difference.

My mom left the Catholic church after 47 years right after my dad died, and it was hard on her. But I know she's been much more outspoken, much more liberal and much happier since she left.

FSC

[rhino47]

15. One of the hardest things I`ve ever done.

I started this process before the election.This isnt a case of sour grapes.
My daughters are already feeling the effects.One got detention for homework that was completed .She was reaching into her desk to get it the teacher said that since it wasnt on her desk 1 min after the bell she would not accept it.
I might have to pull my children from that school.
My husbands family has gone to this church and school for 100 years.
I am being basically spit on.I have a parent/teacher conference today.
I know its not going to go well.
It is scheduled 1 hour after I meet with my lawyer and priest.
I have a sick feeling in my stomach doing this.But I just cant let this go on.Not as a catholic nor as an american.

[fudge stripe cookays]

18. Be strong, r.

You have to do this for your kids, and that should make you stronger.

If they are going to penalize your children with petty bullshit when their grades depend on it, I'd be mad as a lioness and let my righteous rage take over.

100 year tradition be damned. These people are trying to tear down the wall between church and state. DAMN them for it.

Good luck, dear. Let us know how it goes. We're behind you.
FSC

[Tippy]

11. I spoke to my Associate Pastor 9 days before the election....

It was his opinion from so to speak that pressure was being put on in some parish's..No pressure from our parish however ....the only thing we were asked to do was to pray for whoever won and to remember as a voter we must look at all the issues not one or two...and make informed decisions...

[LSdemocrat]

12. Happened in St. Louis

Our Archbishop said Catholics who vote for pro-choice candidates would have to go to Confession.

[Township75]

14. Not at my Catholic church

and I live in the periphery of the Bible Belt.

[JI7]

16. they did it at a few muslim and jewish temples also

some evangelicals who were working on GOTV for bush targeted some muslim and jewish places also where they knew they were conservative and would agree on opposing gay marriage and abortion rights.

and you are right about the latinos. chuck schumer said much of the increase for bush was because of this religious stuff and the gay marriage thing. many of them didn't even agree with bush on real issues that matter.

[hedgehog]

17. Our pastor wouldn't speak directly

but he made his preferences clear with many homilies focused on our obligation to take care of the poor and sick. Please note - as a certified catechist it is my duty to teach children that Catholics have an obligation to social justice issues. It's not optional.

[CBHagman]

19. In Washington, D.C., no. In Scranton, PA, yes.

My home parish in DC made a point of saying, both from the pulpit and in the church bulletin, that the church does not advocate for or against a specific candidate.

In Scranton, the Cathedral of St. Peter stuck a flyer in its church bulletin with the usual side-by-side contrasting of Kerry and Bush strictly on the narrowly defined "pro-life" issues -- i.e., abortion, etc.

[goddess40]

20. Bishop Burke

This is Goddess40's mom. I live in WI where Bishop Burke was the bishop of the local parish. Burke is the one who started the whole thing about not giving Kerry communion. The local priest of one parish said the church was against anyone supporting abortion. When asked about the war he said the church's stance on that was "too vague" to comment on. And this was after the Pope came out against the war. Burke has since been promoted to Archbishop and transferred to St. Louis where he continues his "holy" work. The local Catholic paper that comes from the diocese had an article printed before the election that said Catholics would be committing a grievance sin if they voted for anyone who voted pro choice. To me this indicates the Catholic church should lose its tax free status.

[DeepModem Mom]

21. Thank you, mom, for sharing this with us at DU