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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:22 PM
Original message
Apparently, a "little vote fraud" is OK with Democrats...
There are obviously hundreds of voting "irregularities" being reported. All of these "irregularities" favoured the Republican candidate.

But all we here from the Dem Gatekeepers is "Quit whining!"

Isn't one stolen vote as much as an outrage as a million?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes but here is the trick
One thing is what we know in our hearts... teh vote was stolen

The second thing is to do this LEGALLY... and we do not have teh power to do this... legally or otherwise.
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tedzbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Fuck the Democrats!
I am now officially a Green Party member AND supporter of Blackboxvoting.org!

:bounce:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Me too, not officially yet, but when I get a chance to do it.
The fact that we could get Donna Brazille as head of the DNC put the final nail in my decision. I hope we can persuade Dennis Kucinich or Howard Dean to head the Greens. They wouldn't have a chance against the DLC candidates for the DNC, so maybe we can persuade them to come over to the Green side.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. I believe I will be joining you...
since it appears that our "leadership" has embraced Jello Way politics
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. Yup. I was foolish enough to believe in the Dems for the past year
Now I'm going back to my roots.
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Tamyrlin79 Donating Member (944 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Try Howard Dean...
He's been right on the money, re: Dems AND Republicans, and speaking truth to power for a good while now.

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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Breaking News
Howard Dean is a Democrat. He supports the Democratic Party. He campaigned for Democratic Party's candidate. He still support them. He's out raising money for Dems.

IOW, Dean is a Dem.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:51 PM
Original message
Welcome to the Greens, but please, do not give up supporting
Dems who share your values. We need the Cynthia McKinneys and Dennis Ks regardless of the party they choose to belong to. :)

-----------------------------------------------------------
Help expose the election 2004 voter fraud!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform...
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EdibleEgg Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
37. I fucked a Democrat
Last night! Nyuk nyuk nyuk.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. Little bits of bigotry is OK with some of them too
We get "women should give up their rights", "gays should give up their rights", "Southerners suck", and on and on.

But vote fraud is your little bugaboo, so we ALL have to get down with that, right?
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. vote fraud - "little bugaboo"...
i...

give...

up...
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I guess SOME Dems are OK giving up on gay rights
I notice you said nothing about that. I'm supposed to worry about YOUR issue, but you don't care about other people's issues.

And then there's abortion. I guess you're OK with it if they ban abortions.

And I guess you're OK with it if they eliminate Social Security and the progressive income tax.
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. you OBVIOUSLY don't 'get it'
nothing else is POSSIBLE without the right to vote.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Tell that to MLK Jr, and Gandhi
neither of whom could vote.
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. ding-ding-ding
when they got the right to vote THEN things began to change.

and we need the struggle to start NOW not in 08 like many ivory tower liberals apparently thing :crazy:


psst... pass the word ;->
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Tamyrlin79 Donating Member (944 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. However, I think his point was that change is still possible.
However, it IS harder and requires a MASS mobilization. That's what it took for Gandhi, and that's what it took for MLK. Both were very charismatic leaders... Leaders on that scale are few and far between. By my watch, we should be about due one, though. :)
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. No, my point is that the post was IDIOTIC
MLK Jr didn't VOTE for civil rights. He FOUGHT for them.

Gandhi didn't VOTE for India's independence. He FOUGHT for it.

IOW, RyomaSakamoto is making stuff up about the vote. S/He is wrong, but won't admit it.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. Idiot
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 06:00 PM by sangh0
Did you know that the word "idiot" is derived from a Greek word for a person who was ignorant of politics?

when they got the right to vote THEN things began to change.

Gandhi forced the South African govt to recognize the rights of Indians working in South Africa in the early 1900's even though Indians had NEVER had the right to vote in South Africa.

Gandhi forced Great Britain to grant India independence from colonial rule BEFORE the British allowed ANY Indian to vote.

It's foolish to make historical claims about things that never happened to someone who has studied the history.
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pleiku52cab Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. as Old Abe said
that this nation shall not perish from the face of the earth. If we don't have one person-one vote, then we are no longer a democracy
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. if the vote don't count NOTHING else matters
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 05:33 PM by RyomaSakamoto
hello...
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. So you're OK with bigotry
so long as YOUR vote is counted.
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. see above post
http://www.verifiedvoting.org

psst... pass the word ;->
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. You obviously don't "get it"
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 05:50 PM by sangh0
YOu don't need the vote. Just ask Gandhi. Ask Nelson Mandela.
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. sangh0: "YOu don't need the vote. Just ask Gandhi. Ask Nelson Mandela."
lol
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Mandela voted for South African ending apartheid?
Where from? His jail cell?
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:36 PM
Original message
actually, vote fraud is treason, not bugaboo...
just wanted to let you know... ;-)
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. This kind of crap is what gives Nader ammunition...
and when Dem leaders are saying, "quit whining", it lends Nader's assertion that Dems and Repubs are indistinguable some degree of credibility.

I'm offended by the 'quit whining' comment. Sorry. I will not.
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. those dems and du'ers
who say "stop whining" and "get over it" and "take off the tin foil hat" are the same du'ers and dems who'd suggest we forsake democratic values to get the red state votes. the same du'ers and dems who'd prefer someone like bob shrum to run all dem campaigns. the same du'ers and dems who adore folks like evan bayh and joe lieberman.

the same du'ers and dems who'd get smacked around in the playground, and just take it.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. sure
fortunately there are not many of them about.

Regardless, the lack of Democratic Leadership in this matter is disturbing. Everybody is posting in a haze of depression and utter confusion. Panic. Fear and Loathing.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. Al Franken ROYALLY pissed me off today.
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 05:35 PM by in_cog_ni_to
He said he's concerned about "we" Democrats being "labeled" conspiracy theorists. :grr: Then, he said he was kinda sorry he had Mark Crispin Miller on the show because Mark believes there probably WAS fraud, but Al doesn't want to go there. (all paraphrased) Man he pissed me off. Al Franken is on my new "no listen to" list. :grr:
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Tamyrlin79 Donating Member (944 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. I've been there for a while...
Not because of what Franken said... I just don't care for his show. Randi Rhodes and Malloy are much more my speed. Like Majority Report, too. :)
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Randi and Malloy ROCK!
They're, by far, my favorites. I always fall asleep before Malloy is over though. He's on so late. :(
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. think about it for a second
Franken's got a fucking show to run. You think he wants to get Rathered? Get a grip man and realize what we are up against, Franken could just as soon be protecting himself from Rovian disinformation.

There are experts on this, and there are leaders (remember the people we all voted for who have since disappeared) who need to step up.

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Tamyrlin79 Donating Member (944 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. That doesn't stop Randi from talking about it...
She has a fucking show to run too. Do you see her getting Rathered? I think she has a pretty good grip and realizes what we are up against.
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Al doesn't want his CARTOON world view disturbed
who could blame him :shrug:

i'm still glad he's on our side though
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BayStateBoy Donating Member (562 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. I Don't Think that it was a Little Fraud. We Need Recounts
1. The soul of Democracy is the truth. We need to validate the results irrespective of outcome especially with so many smoking guns.

2. If we don't legally challenge, the doors will be flung wide open to massive fraud in the future because the Repugs will know that they have a free ride. We will have promoted fraud. DNC=DOA.

3. It's a matter of honor. Our candidates said that every vote would be counted. Unless the Smutboat Vets were correct, John Kerry and the DNC needs to step up to the plate and get the votes recounted.

4. Bush may well have won OH but I doubt he won FL. Doing a recount regardless of the results will unlikely alienate those that voted for Kerry-Edwards, and those others are lost souls most of them anyway.

5. We can link the recounts to some sort of "values" or moral stand. It's the Democratic way; after all the history of voting in America is the history of recounts (and rigged elections). Also, since tampering with a federal election is a felony we need to take the law and order stand. With a little imagination, it could be done.

6. Irrespective of the final voting tallies, we would gather ammunition to go forward to try to eradicate those voting methods that leave no paper trail. Great way to turn the spotlight on that problem.

7. Of course it will create "controversy," but the anger is already building and we owe it to 55 million+ Americans. I think Chimpie's popular vote plurality is an Electoral WMD and this is the way to prove it.

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idiosyncratic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. It ain't okay with me!!
I've addressed every thread that even suggests we "lost" this election with "FRAUD" or "It was stolen."

I will not stop saying that!
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
17. Because sometimes.....
....the sneak attack is better than the full frontal assault.

If there is something there.......don't you think they'll use it? They already tried the other strategy before. It failed because the GOP spun it with the media whores. If the Dems are quiet now, there is nothing for the Repugnantcons to spin. Trust me, I'm sure the GOP is far more scared of the fact Kerry has seemingly dropped out quietly, than if he vowed to fight......

If you take the media out of the equation for the GOP, they lose all their bite.........
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Tamyrlin79 Donating Member (944 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
21. The key point, though...
is that this "little fraud" is hiding the Great Big Fraud now occupying the White House. If you can prove the one, you go a great measure to proving the other.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
24. I Wonder If They Plan to Use It
For some kind of political blackmail.

Dumb.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
26. It's not Okay with me!
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 05:49 PM by Blue State Native
I am not leaving the Party, but I sure would like to hear something from our "Leaders" besides, "Quit whining!"
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Imnorepublican Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
34. yeah!!!
so what if all the voting mistakes will never tally up to stop bush? we should keep bitching about it, and going to anti-globalization rallies until they do something about it!!!!
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SaintLouisBlues Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
41. If only a "little" fraud can be proven,
that's better than nothing.

We have to move the conversation, as in the Manchurian Candidate.

Did they steal five thousand votes or did they steal five million votes?

We are then talking about how many votes were stolen.

Hopefully it can be proven that the election was stolen, but until then most public figures are afraid of being labeled as fringe conspiracy nuts.

How many votes were stolen?
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