Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

WATCH THIS OLBERMANN clip online. Yup. It was STOLEN

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:15 PM
Original message
WATCH THIS OLBERMANN clip online. Yup. It was STOLEN
Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 10:21 PM by Bluebear
http://home.comcast.net/~hugh.moore/countdown_on_voting...


I didn't know what to make of all of this until I saw this. Especially considering that Democratic Florida counties (up to 88% registered Democrats) that had the optical scans "voted overwhelmingly" for Bush, yet the Democratic counties that had no such machines "had no violent swings" and voted for Kerry. George, Jeb, you got some splainin' to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
JohnnyCougar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. bad link
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. corrected, thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nostalgicaboutmyfutr Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Check the URL please! EOM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. corrected, thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:17 PM
Original message
Bad link
Page URL Not Found!!

The requested page does not exist on this server. The URL you typed or followed is either outdated or inaccurate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. Es ist jetzt gut, danke!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Whoa... how many people posted "bad link"
within a couple of seconds? And your answer! When I made my post, it showed as the second post of the thread. A little database overload here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree, I'm becoming fully convinced.
Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 10:17 PM by mzmolly
:puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. And they called us tinfoilers lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
selmo7 Donating Member (275 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
41. All heretics are eventually canonized as saints eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #41
107. Yeah, that happened to St.Francis
Back in the day the Catholic Church burned his followers at the stake as Witches...then they totally changed their mind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
55. I'm going to assume
that 'Reynolds Wrap' is a brand of tinfoil. That bit was funny.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ignoramus Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #55
81. I wonder if Alcoa advertises...
... on MSNBC.

I have a phatasy that they mention the term tinfoil hat to some higher up and he says "no one uses tin foil anymore.... say, does one of our advertisers sell aluminum foil? Why don't you say 'hats made from reynolds wrap'".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pleiku52cab Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. BAD LINK
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. El linko esta correcto now, gracias :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
30. I'm so impressed!
How multilingual you are! ;) LOL!

Now, I have to confess. That "This is the DU member formerly known as..." cracks me up every time I see it. I keep expecting it to end with "Prince." Hey, I'm old enough to remember when he was Prince the FIRST time around.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
63. El enlace est correcto, ahora, gracias. :)
Sorry I am a teacher and had to correct you. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. Make sure we contact KO
and let him know how much we appreciate this. Lord knows he is going to get plenty of hate mail from freepers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is great we gotta keep digging & keep the Fire under this
also on a personal note I want to see DUer Walt Starr Eat His Shoe :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Whwn I found that a CIBER board of directors used to live in Gahanna, Ohio
my light bulbs started to flash. The Florida counties, the 3,900 extra votes for Bush in Ohio, this is not coincidence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. There's nothing coincidental about any of this imo
It's blatant Fraud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
88. YEAH!!! They are really bold about it. Kerry WON
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
89. YEAH!!! They are really bold about it. Kerry WON
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #89
108. It's hard to say that when Kerry won't say anything to the sort himself.
As Rep. Conyers implied. But we can still go after the crooks so they don't just go on and on stealing election after election until America is toast!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #108
115. I can see why Kerry is staying back politically. The repukes can
attack us instead of him, which is fine with me. We are all nameless.

I still say he won...the fraud was too massive and in too many states and it all seemed to go one way, toward Bush.

We have to go after these people. They WILL steal the next election! They will bring down our government BY the people to maintain power. Sadly I think the US is already toast...we can't survive 4 more years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
31. Oh.
I'll bring the popcorn!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pleiku52cab Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. HOPE SKINNER PUTS THIS ON TOMORROW'S HOMEPAGE
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VivaKerry Donating Member (609 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks for making/getting this replay! QUESTION:
So why is everyone hailing Conyers? He has NO interest in righting a wrong in this election. He's all about the FUTURE elections. What elections I would ask him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mike6640 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Conyers was being polite
or politic...

No need to get the investigation 'shut down' immediately as a partisan endeavor to change the outcome.

M
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VivaKerry Donating Member (609 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Fine by me. Thanks
(and thanks for the link below; I will go read it now)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carla in Ca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Here is a thread from a few days ago
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... >

It also includes a PDF file showing the actual letter by Conyers, Nadler and Wexler.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goddess40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
71. Cringing Conyers
This is Goddess40s mom. I agree that praise for Conyers is overdone and at least premature. He is just another cringing Democrat hoping to hang on to his position and at the same time getting a pat on the head from * for being a good little boy. Other than Howard Dean, Russ Feingold (Sen. from WI), and Dave Obey (Cong. from WI) I don't know of any Democrats with guts. Kind of interesting that WI who has strong Democrats went for Kerry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #71
90. Barnie Frank, Ted Kennedy have guts too
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
15. thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!
I don't have access to MSNBC and I REALLY wanted to see this.

Much appreciation!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. yw yw yw yw yw :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #25
49. ahem.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. --------------------------------------> mp3
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. Anyone notice that Olbermann referred to Bush**
as "Mr. Bush" throughout the entire segment?

:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. just wow.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LynzM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #18
40. Yeah, I caught that...
Thanks so much for posting this, now I can pass that link around to people who need to see it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LifeDuringWartime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. wow
olbermann's the man...thats all ive got to say about that
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mike6640 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
20. Email Olbermann!
countdown@msnbc.com

Let him know we are watching.

M
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NCArtist33 Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. Hi All
Just emailed "O"
God, this is the first time I've felt hopeful in almost a week. Thank you guys for getting the word on this story out.
I used to be a cable news junkie before Black Tuesday, but I can't bear to watch the Repug lovefest that is going on still. DU is my primary source for news discussion now.
As far as the Olbermann report goes, let me posit a few theories:
Suppose Kerry knew that the election was likely to be fixed.
Suppose his campaign knew that an early concession would eliminate the media storm that would ensue if anything was challenged by himself.
Suppose this lack of a challenge would both embolden the Repug thieves to not cover their tracks immediately and effectively, and ignite the Democratic base to analyze every instance of irregularity.
Suppose the Kerry folk knew that a concession speech was not legally binding.
Folks, Kerry is far from stupid.
Have hope and FIGHT. :kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Agree 100%!!
:toast: We can help by doing just as we've been doing since the data gathering and analysis began: Taking what we get and running like mad with it! Although, I must admit, first I take the opportunity to Snoopy Dance around the house with utter joy and abandon. I think I'm frightening my dog. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-04 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #29
116. AMEN! I've been telling angry Dems this for a week! :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
100. thanks. done. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GOPNotForMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
26. STOLEN!
This is absolutely RIDICULOUS!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BelleCarolinaPeridot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Its so OBVIOUS now that this is FRAUD .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
28. I think keith has just broken this story wide open!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
missouri dem Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
33. Thanks so much for posting the link.
Now lets get busy and get this out. I have sent it to all of my email lists and contacts. Need to blast the media with it. Lets go DU it might not be too late to save our country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nordic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
34. who's got a link to a transcript?
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. I don't have the transcript, but here's what Keith had to say
on the subject on his blog. :shrug:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. He puts it into perspective by comparing with past elections.
All I ask is for a fair assessment/coverage of the "anomalies".

Thanks for posting that link.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
113. You're most welcome
And he was right back at it, again, today. His show is repeated at midnight, Eastern. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Thanks, I never could get the file to load up. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
35. Dupe
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pleiku52cab Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
37. Who cares if the clip was 'stolen'
the repugs STOLE the damn election
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TimeToGo Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
42. Thanks -- Go Keith!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
43. UPDATE
The only weird thing (and Keith writes about this after the show on his blog) is that he found out (after the show) that these strange counties with mostly registered Democrats that went for Bush also went for Bush in 2000. So, it might not be fraud. They might just be fucked in the head. Dixiecrats.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. Right, everything was hunky-dory in 2000, too, especially in FLA.
He cited 70-80% Dem registrations, and opposite numbers in the voting results.

It bears an investigation.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grumpy old fart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #43
56. Dixiecrats
I think the panhandle democrats voting bush are actually just old Dixiecrats, the panhandle is very conservative in general. There are bigger fish to fry in this fraud. Ohio is the key, Diebold is the henchman.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MileHiStealth Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #43
59. No ... it might be proof that it was stolen in 2000 too ...
Can someone check the results for these
counties for the last 5 or 6 elections ?
Maybe we can find a pattern. If they
suddenly went Repug in 2000, that could
be proof of two stolen elections ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. Someone check on another thread and they went Rep in 96 too
they went for Dole.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #62
102. OK, but I wonder by how much.


Some of the Bush-Kerry margins were four and five to one.

And why the heck don't these people change their registration, already?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-04 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #62
117. I would wonder about this.
First, you have to consider the source of the Dole bit. The bushies thrive on disinformation.

Second, dixiecrats in Florida? Dixies are throwbacks in conservative Southern states. Florida has a really dynamic population with lots of progressive thinking groups from other parts of the country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #43
78. Then explain how the minimum wage initiative passed... n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
84. Yes, but by a far narrower margin. The repukes goosed their
totals in safe districts all across the country, but they forgot to note what the registrations were so it got noticed there. And extra 30% in a red precinct that is safely * is unremarkable, but leads to a strong push in the total popular vote.

It's fraud all right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
44. Tip your hat to the Cincinnati Enquirer reporter, too!
Erica Solvig (misspelled on the "Countdown" segment):

esolvig@enquirer.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dukakis88 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
45. Somebody pinch me... TV news actually doing journalism.
I am so used to seeing zero journalism on 24-hour-news channels that this was shocking in its substance. It's almost too good to be true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. My thoughts exactly.
I'm setting the TiVo for Olbermann every night from now on. I don't know why I didn't any sooner.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. Nothing against Tivo, but I used ReplayTV to create this video clip : )
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 09:20 AM by krkaufman
PVRs definitely rule. I've got 2 ReplayTVs scooping up several shows including ABC News, Dobbs, Keith, Moyers, 60 Minutes & Frontline. The converted video clips have nearly run me out of space on my ISP-provided web pages, having exhausted the 25MB/email allowance for each of my email IDs. (Time to snuff old clips, or buy some space elsewhere.)

There's a slew of ways to skin this particular feline (Tv-to-clip), but here's the process/equipment/software I use to capture/convert TV.... (though an all-PC solution might make for faster record-to-upload speed, since my current method requires that I first download the video from my PVR, which can take a while.)



>Very much appreciated. What program / PC setup do you use?

Happy to be of service. Gotta do what we can to get the info out.

Video is captured on a 50xx series ReplayTV (I have 2), downloaded to my PC over my wired Ethernet network (using the freeware DVArchive program for communicating with ReplayTVs; thanks, Gerry), and then edited & converted to Windows Media format using Ulead's commercial Video Studio 8.

The PC on which I edit the video is a 2.4GHz Dell, w/ a GB of RAM.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
48. Question is why was it Story #5??
Damn,this should have screamed Story #1!! But..Kudo's to Olberman and MSNBC for having the GUTS to even air the story. Probably being threatened by Rover and the FCC as we speak.

I'm E-mailing Olberman tonight...

David
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. It may have been #5, but it was the lead-off story.

Think "countdown" => "5... 4... 3... 2... 1..."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #48
67. Olberman tends to have the "real" stories...
at the beginning of his program. Which I appreciate since I watch it at 11:00 pm, Central Time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clintonlover Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
51. Hope

Notice: The most interesting news I received today was the word that the law firm of John Kerry's brother is looking for evidence of vote fraud, and if there is a compelling case, Kerry will "unconcede". This is good news.
Here is the e-mail I received from Mark Crispin Miller:

From robin su miller:

Everyone! Please forward to all who have specifics on vote fraud. The send-to address below is John Kerry's brother at his law firm. Kerry will unconcede if there is solid evidence of fraud. We need first hand sufferers so please get this info to them!!

FORWARD TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW EMAIL FROM DC LAWYER CYNTHIA BUTLER

I am angry and getting emails and recrimination from people wondering why KERRY just caved and is not fighting this before the final count in Ohio, before any of the fraud was challenged, before New Mexico and Iowa even came in.

There is widespread feeling that he did not lose the election and that it was taken from him.

There is enough here to warrant investigation and enough to challenge the results. It's coming from all corners.

I understand that he has until the official count certification in Ohio to Un Concede which is several days from now.

Anyone who thinks that he should unconcede should give reasons why - whatever they noticed, particularly in Red Republican Governed States using electronic machines- and send them directly to Cameron KERRY, John Kerry's brother at his law firm at the address CKerry@Mintz.com

They should inform us if they were not allowed to vote provisionally (for whatever reason- they lost forms, ran out of forms, etc.) I personally witnessed a number of things as I reported in Texas with the DCCC. (Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee)

If you know anyone in particular in Ohio who tried to vote and was turned away at the polls please get their information and notify the campaign.

They should be notified if they experienced lines longer than four hours -particularly elderly or infirm people (we call that torture when they do it to political prisoners) . They should be notified if people were told as has been reported that due to too many people showing up in African American precincts, particularly in Ohio where there were too few booths (some only had two or three for the entire precinct) and told because of heavy turn out they could vote on Wednesday. If the n umbers of these sorts of incidents creates a percentage margin that exceeds the margin of victory- Un Concession has to be made to challenge the count.

If people wanted to and tried to vote and were prevented or actively discouraged from doing so, that is a Civil Rights matter and must be dealt with in terms of the ultimate count.

This is the last email that I am writing on this subject in this venue. I am taking it up in other venues.

Please pass along this to your listservs so that we may make Democracy Work in America. We are not a country where he who cheats best wins.

Cynthia L. Butler
BUTLER LAW FIRM, P.C.
1717 K St. NW, Suite 600
Washington, DC 20036


johnkerry.com

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. God!, wouldn't that be the sweetest flip-flop ever...!!!
(Not meant in an anti-Kerry way. Facts change, positions must follow.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
libbygurl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
53. Thank goodness Olbermann decided to do the right thing!! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
57. We only have until December
It is great that this is getting national coverage.

Remember that you did not vote for president directly. All you did was vote for who you wanted your state to vote for, for president.

The state will send its delegates in December to meet with the electoral college to elect the president.

If, between now and the time the EC meets, this can be determined to be true fraud, then perhaps the delegates can be able to vote for Kerry. Most states have laws binding them to the winner of the state election, but if that election was proven fradulent, or the results show Kerry actually won the election, then the delegates could vote for Kerry - not sure if they would have to be sued to make that happen or not.

- Tab
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
58. To only focus on optical scan counties dangerous -- touchscreen a problem
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 09:28 AM by lostnfound
also.

Whether or not opscan results can be explained by evangelical Dems voting for Bush or not, there is STILL a problem with touchscreens which is where the majority of the votes were skimmed, IMHO.

Sequoia machines consistently show a 10% offset for all 4 counties using them -- even though some are urban Dem, some are rural:


Almost all Florida counties seem skewed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
60. transcript?
for those, like me, at work at the moment and unable to watch video clips....

thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
61. Red Herring: this has been explained
And I am very concerned that once it is discovered to be legitimate then every other problem (and there were many) will be swept under the carpet.

This is the direction is should be going:

<http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=405 >
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #61
68. This is good!
My brother and I were talking about this whole mess on Sunday. One thing we agreed on. These computer "glitches" that burp out an extra 4000 votes for Bush indicate that it's likely that tampering has been built into the computer programs, which no one has been allowed to examine. This really isn't rocket science. These programs should be incredibly simple. It's only tabulation. There don't need to be any fancy formulas.

My bro pointed out that when money is concerned, Diebold's ATM's are AMAZING in their accuracy - virtually 100%, and they provide a paper receipt. There's no reason that e-voting can't be simple AND accurate, and the paper receipt of your vote could be dropped in a box and that would be the back up should a hand count be requested. One would think that our vote would be worth at least as much as money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #68
73. I'd go further and say that the paper votes MUST be counted.
Nothing would be considered final until all paper votes have been counted. The electronic tallies, if continued, would merely be to quickly identify any problematic areas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Well, counting all the absentee and provisionals would be a start
I'm appalled at the reports of absentee ballots not being counted in some states because there aren't enough of them to "make a difference". When has that ever been grounds for whether or not a vote got counted? You vote, it gets counted - PERIOD.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #74
85. Every vote counts..!! Count every...
... errrr... ummm.... nevermind.

:mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wols Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #61
98. How is it a red herring?
I'm not saying this hasn't already been addressed but it looks pretty suspicious to me. What am I missing?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dont Hurt Me Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
65. Devils Advocate says....
the countys he mentions voted strongly for Bush in 2000 and considering the overall increased vote for Bush in the country and Florida having one of the best Economies in the country the vote totals don't surprise me.....flame away.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
66. Watching that last night FINALLY convinced...
Mr. Zookeeper. I'll admit I did point out that I've been telling him the same thing for almost a week.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
69. Technical difficulties...probably me. link does not work for me. I get
the winamp to appear, but then nothing happens. I hit play and wait and wait. It is a lovely blank screen, and somewhat soothing. If anyone knows how to help this technoclutz I would greatly appreciate it ....thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. Try right-clicking on the URL....
... and selecting "Save target as...", saving the file to your PC.

Once the file is downloaded, open it up w/ Windows Media Player or Winamp.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blueblitzkrieg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
70. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!
I missed the first half last night. KEITH FUCKING ROCKS!!!! The election was stolen!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
75. the spin is interesting
Fisrt thing I heard this morning was arguments back and forth - did Olbermnan or didn't Olberman prove that the election was stolen?

The answer of course, is neither. Olberman never claimed to be attempting to do that. Framing the discussion this way, however, discredits and obscures what he DID say.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HuskerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
76. Holy CRAP - What a day to have missed Oberman
PLEASE.............. COULD WE NOT JUST LAY DOWN AND DIE? WE SHOULD BE SCREAMING FROM THE RAFTERS ABOUT THIS!

We should be mobilizing in the same fashion as we did against Sinclairs advertisers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
77. Hey.. how hard would it be for someone down in Florida to go to..
..one of the tiny counties he mentioned, and do some digging, to SEE if 80% of the Democrats really DID vote for Bush? I mean.. when you have counties like Lafayette, with only a few thousand voters, wouldn't the head of the Democratic Party there be able to tell us more? What about the Kerry volunteers in that area? I'm on the other side of the Country, otherwise I'd be down there in one of the counties, just to SEE for myself, by going to the local diners.. etc.. what the truth is. Anyone have connections to the head Democrats in any of those aforementioned counties???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GrapplerHK Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. The Dixiecrats
From what I know about Fla, these counties are all rural counties, with "old" Democrats, who registered a long time ago (like the 1950s), who have long since stopped voting for Democrats (just look at their local elections).

They're "Dell Miller" Democrats, who are Democrats only in name.

I think it's the wrong path to go down. They're claiming the computer machines were mostly accurate, while the optical scanners in Dixiecrat areas favored Bush.

Where I think it's more likely the diebold and es&s computer voting machine votes were altered, behind the scenes. There is no way to prevent nor detect this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. It's ridiculous to posit this
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 12:49 PM by Capn Sunshine
These people you refer to all RE REGISTERED long ago in a fit of pique and pride over integration. NO WAY did they just "stay registered democrat" as you imply. It's merely a diversion from the issue that the vote mysteriously does not match registered totals OR exit polling.

Very Rovian meme. But that dog won't hunt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #80
86. There is no wrong path to go down. We go down every path
and see where each leads.

Yes, those counties went for * in 2000, many in '96 as well, but not by nearly such a great margin. When tens of thousands in Florida are still looking for help from the government after the hurricanes, wouldn't there be a little fallout from that? A little frustration that would carry over at the ballot box? Not judging by the results. They are more worried about gays than about a roof over their heads.

Right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
They_LIHOP Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #80
106. LET ME PUT IT TO YOU THIS WAY:
My analysis of those data show the following:

In ALL FL counties:
Looking at the number of 'independent' voters (those not registered D or R) in each county, take and EXTRAPOLATE the ratio of D/R voters over the population of the Indy voters and add the resulting expected D/R votes to the actual D/R votes. I.E. if we have 45%D, 50%R, we calculate the expected count of Dem votes out of the Indy vote count as Indy*(45/(45+50)). Then, take and add that to the actual D votes and you'll get an 'expected' Dem vote for the county. Do the same for the R's.

THEN, take and compare the ACTUAL D/R votes on a county by county basis with your 'expected' vote count, based on dividing the Indy voters at the same ratio as you have reg. D/R voters as I described above. Take and find the DIFFERENCE in each county between ACTUAL and EXPECTED for each county for each party. SUM all the differences up, and you'll be able to see how many votes were lost/gained by each candidate versus the expected number of votes for each.

IN the eVoting counties of FL:
Out of about 3.8 million voters, you will see that your expected D/R count - actual D/R count calculation produces a NET TOTAL of 18,000 'extra' votes for bush, beyond what you'd expect based on the D/R registrations for the counties. This is small enough to be 'normal'.

In the OP-SCAN counties of FL:
Out of about 3.5 million voters, you will see that your expected D/R-actual D/R calculation produces a NET TOTAL of OVER 300,000 'extra' votes for bush, beyond what you'd expect based on the D/R registrations for the counties.

This discrepancy between two regions in the same state is virtually statistically impossible without either a tabulation error, or an all-out effort by the population to LIE about their true party affiliations. The former seems much more likely, frankly, don't you agree?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-04 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #106
118. And...
While I'm not a statistician, I have been looking at the CA numbers. (I also don't have all of the GEMS breakdowns by precinct, and I've focused mainly on the Accuvote-OSes thus far.) And the pattern seems to follow in a couple of counties here too--

low county population

county uses optical scanners

percentages don't seem to follow the norm for the presidential race

liberal leaning issues passed fine

The problem doesn't seem to be as wide spread here though, and Kery won our state anyway. It would be a waste for them to spend too much time on it, as opposed to Ohio-- but I'm pissed, so I do!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
79. Kick. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
83. Kick!
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
87. Posting in this so I can find it later :)
When I'm not at work..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #87
92. FYI... You could also use the bookmark feature
(1) Bookmark the thread...



(2) Access your bookmarks...



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. My star ran out, and I'm waiting till Jan for my next donation...
...just cause I don't have the means right now. Dont you need a star to use that feature?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. Ah. Very possibly. I dunno, though. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rockydem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
91. Olbermann was strangely uninformed in part of his piece
When talking about those Flordia counties he hinted that they had flipped from Gore to Bush. All the counties he displayed vote counts for went for Bush in 2000 and most went for Dole in 96 (Perot factor). Those were the same counties that were in the commondreams article.

The stuff on Ohio was interesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CTD Donating Member (732 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
93. MORE tonight (Tues)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240 /

-----------------------

Naked Promotional Announcement (Keith Olbermann)



SECAUCUS -- A quick and haplessly generic answer now to the 6,000 emails and the hundreds of phone calls.

Firstly, thank you.

Secondly, we will indeed be resuming our coverage of the voting irregularities in Ohio and Florida -- and elsewhere -- on this evening's edition of Countdown {8:00 p.m. ET}. The two scheduled guests are Jonathan Turley, an excellent professor of law at George Washington University, and MSNBC analyst and Congressional Quarterly senior columnist Craig Crawford.

For Jonathan, the questions are obvious: the process and implications of voting reviews, especially after a candidate has conceded, even after a President has been re-elected. For Craig, the questions are equally obvious: did John Kerry's concession indeed neuter mainstream media attention to the questions about voting and especially electronic voting, and what is the political state of play on the investigations and the protests.

Phase Two, in which Doris gets her oats...
-----------------------------

Go Keith!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xg0blin Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
94. We need to contact other major news networks
Let them know that if this is not investigated further by their network, then we'll just assume they're in the pockets of the neocons and stop watching their channels. We need to fight this. Kerry needs to come back out and fight this. It's not going to get done if we don't do something.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
95. Thank you. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BreakForNews Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
99. Conservative Lawyer Backs VoteFraud Claim
We've Been Had
by Edgar J. Steele


Houston, we have a problem.

Look -the people apparently disenfranchised this time around primarily are those with whom I generally disagree, but the fundamental unfairness of what has taken place offends me, not to mention the path down which America now treads.

If this is what it means to be conservative today, I want to be liberal...

Read at:
http://www.breakfornews.com/articles/WeveBeenHad.htm


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-04 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #99
119. Wow!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
101. A question re. the Florida discrepancies:


This pertains to the counties in Fla. with large Democratic enrollment majorities but huge Bush voting majorities.. counties which were cited in the Olbermann report:

How do the Bush- Kerry results compare with the Bush-Gore results in 2000? The Bush-Kerry results were a blowout for Bush. Were the Bush-Gore results more competitive?

Has this been posted somewhere? Please advise.

Paul
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. OK, I see this was dealt with above....


but is the data posted anywhere? And the comparison with Dole/Clinton in 1996 might be instructive since Bush was not a candidtate. I'd like to see those figures.

Paul
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Paxdora Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
104. Got the visuals but
NO SOUND WHATSOEVER! Bummer! I have WM player 9...
this is so frustrating...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #104
109. ---------------------------------------------------> mp3
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
105. Hurray for Rep. John Conyers of Michigan!
:yourock:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandboxface Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
110. Conyers really pissed me off...
He should have called it all out FRAUD. I'm getting sick of softy Democrats....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. How many more incidents of "voter irregularities" do we need
before a full-fledged investigation is performed? If the Repugs have nothing to hide, then why should they mind??? (smile)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BreakForNews Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
112. Google Censors VoteFraud Stories
Google Censors VoteFraud Stories

Search engine, Google is ignoring thousands of news stories which are in its news database --all about the alleged theft of the U.S. presidential election.

Google : Working hard to preserve the Status Quo.
Just thought you'd like to know.

Full story
http://www.breakfornews.com/articles/GoogleCensorsVoteF...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
114. TUESDAY's Segment Here....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-04 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
120. Well that is interesting.
Who sent the word to lock down the counting, I wonder, Ashcroft?I do not trust anything this govt. does any more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bain Reese Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
121. Florida - Why is it impossible?
"Up to" 88% "Registered" Democratic.

I'm not disputing all claims to fraud. But the Florida one is just not a cut and dried fraud to me as some of you are so willing to agree that it is. Here is why.

"Up to" means that you only need "one" county to be 88% Democratic and have voted for Bush to support that and yet the claim sounds much more significant whan you say "Many, up to 88%..."

Secondly, there are a great number of "Jewish" voters in those heavily democratic counties. So much of the media is giving the sway in the election to the "Moral" Christian Right. Saying that their votes and turn out effected the election. While I believe this is true to a point, I have heard nothing pontificated on the Jewish vote.

Why is this important? I know several Democratic Jews who voted for Bush in this election. Why? Although they disagree with him on Domestic policy, the War in Iraq, however messy it may be, is still a war(In their eyes) against Muslim extremists. Every time a car bomb goes off, every time people are killed because of a suicide bomber in Iraq, it reminds them of what is constantly going on in Isreal and that has had an effect on their vote.

Another factor is the retired community. Florida, perhaps more than any other state, has a pluthera of retired people. Although many may register Democratic, many are also Veterans. Now we can try and tell ourselves that Kerry had veteran support, but we would be fooling ourselves to believe he got even 30% of that vote. We know that younger people tend to lean Democratic. We also know that Military and Ex-military tend to lean Republican. Mix Veteran and older generation and you get Democrats in time of peace, and Democrats who may trend toward Bush now because of the war.

I'm not going to delute myself and guffaw at the thought and think it impossible for a Democrat to vote for a Republican president. If you look at those same Democratic counties who voted heavily for Bush, you'll find that on lower seats of office they were dominated by Democratic wins. If you are going to rig an election...are you just going to rig it for the President and leave everything else alone?

I'm sorry...I am just not going to roll over and believe everything and every "seeming" irregularity is fraud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-04 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
122. Link to the video is broken again

anyone have a mirror?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 25th 2014, 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC