Our moral responsibility has been lifted

[info being]

A huge part of the Democratic platform has always been to stick up for the little guy. But at some point the little guy stopped sticking up for himself. Protected by his false god, he feels he no longer needs help from others...and no longer needs to even think for himself (God speaks to him, don't you know).

Yet despite being ridiculed, called names, and ignored for years and years...we always felt a moral obligation to help regardless. Well, yesterday was the straw that broke the camel's back. The little guy...shit, union members for that matter...are voting Republican. They no longer believe in us, trust us, or want our help.

Our loyalty has to be toward ourselves, our families, saving the environment, etc., etc. But we can no longer burden ourselves with the responsibility of taking care of the lower middle-class. The first rule of helping anyone is they have to first want it. They don't. They not only failed themselves, they have failed all of us. This will be remembered, and when they come crawling back one day after having learned the hard lesson, may we greet them with a stern "fuck you."

Lost your job? Haha, not my problem.
Kids being shipped to Iran. Too bad.
Poisoned by the food supply? Oh well, I buy organic.

Now fuck off.

[Trajan]

1. When I first read this ... I laughed ....

Second time though: I cried .....

In 4 short years .. Have we become such a cynical nation ? ...

[info being]

2. I think we need to do some real soul-searching.

When dealing with cancer, you don't help it and feed it. You starve it while focussing energy on healthy cells. That's what we need to do.

[pa28]

13. I think so too.

Once we finally come back in to power the number one job will be finding a way to fix the damage before it's too late. We'll have more pressing and immediate concerns than how much to spend on what program. We need to find a moral foundation.

[info being]

24. No, I mean before we come back into power. It'll be a while you know.

[Sandpiper]

3. They stopped caring for the little guy when

Congressional dems sold out Clinton's push for universal healthcare.

Clinton signed Gingrich's hateful "welfare reform" into law.

Clinton signed NAFTA.


The party lost its soul in the '90s.

It's up to us now to elect leaders who will restore it.

[info being]

6. But we were abandoned by the little guy long before that.

When they elected an actor, for example.

[Demos]

37. Yeah you are right, but some of us old Reaganites

actually believed he represented the party of the small businessman and the farmer. He was going to get that big federal government off our backs - boy were we fed a line of shit! It didn't take long to figure out where he was really coming from, and it wasn't main street or the farm belt. We re-learned the hard way what our parents learned back in the 30's, "After Lincoln got his brains shot out the Republican Party became the party of BIG BUSINESS". Its still hard for me to admit it, but Dad was right.

[Carolina]

48. exactly

remember the Reagan Democrats. Clinton went center to win and then ended up having to stay there to the fight vicious repukes in Congress. We should not blame the 90s or Clinton. This shit started with St. Reagan.

[ThomCat]

29. I agree

Most people don't realize how much of a blow we took over healthcare and globalization under Clinton. That probably wasn't the start of the fall but it was definitely part of the downward slide.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

4. sounds like we got a Hicks fan in here

i like your style.

here here (sp?)

your thread got me wondering if this lessens my responsibility for all of this madness. what are the ethical ramifications? have my hands been washed clean of innocent blood because I voted against Sauron? Will i soon be raptured?
:think:

[info being]

5. Me thinks that we did everything we can. It ain't our problem no more.

I truly believe that.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

9. well then that's a small victory.

ive been looking for one of those.

[Carolina]

49. I hear ya

though I still say they cheated! Damn computer voting.

[enki23]

7. some of us *are* the "little guy"

.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

15. i think he was referring to the

delusional little guy. the one who voted for Sauron.

[info being]

25. Of course I don't mean anybody on this board.

I ain't so big myself, ya know:)

[trotsky]

8. I don't agree with the attitude, but...

being so totally removed from any power at the national level, there's very little we will be able to accomplish there - if anything.

Our efforts are better spent at the local level. Here in MN the Democrats came within one seat of retaking the state House. The Me-publicans had a 12-seat advantage last session! Our dingbat asshole of a puke governor used up all his one-time gimmicks to balance our budget last time - now he's fucked. He's either going to have to break his pledge not to raise taxes, or slash programs that even the Me-pubs like. It will reflect poorly on the state GOOP.

This is how we rebuild. Work locally. Let people see the results of the Democratic/Liberal method, instead of accepting what they're told it is by the Me-pubs.

[demodonkey]

10. Don't Laugh -- CRY

Cry for all the little guys who DID vote Kerry/Edwards and yet will never see that "Fresh Start For America" that John Kerry promised.

Yesterday, in my poll, I nearly cried as a wheelchair-bound young man, needing help from his Dad, voted for the first time "because John Kerry is for healthcare." The Dad voted too, for the first time in 10 years.

Thank God, JK/JE took my state (PA) but how many others in OH, FL, etc voted for Kerry into Diebold black boxes and their voice will NOT be heard???

[info being]

14. I agree with you there.

But let's at least agree to laugh at the SUV drivers when the gas goes to $4 per gallon.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

19.

there's one in Fla.

I won't be here long though. I'm packing my bags.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. You know I feel this way insofar as the

fundies, jeeezuz freaks who will not get it until they have their children drafted

Until they have no food on the table

Until their parents starve or have to take meds

little suzzie gets pregnant and cannot get an abortion

Tehy loose the house

They loose health insurance

They loose their work....

for them I don't give a fuck

but then there is this lady who I met outside a supermarket, poor as dirt, selling candy on the side to make ends meet. She voted for Kerry for the first time in her life... I care for her and I fear for her.

But for the fundeies and freepers... I don't give a fuck!

[info being]

18. I agree.

So how do we find a way to help only the good guys? Christians will only help you if you "convert." We need to be the same way.

[mistertrickster]

12. I tend to agree--I'm getting kind of tired of sticking up for the "common

man" when all he does is listen to Rush all day and vote the way Pat Robertson tells him to.

Trouble is, who exactly IS our constituency then?

[info being]

20. It's the common man when he finally learns his lesson and comes crawling..

All we have to do is keep speaking the truth when asked. We are smarter and they need to reach out to us, not the other way around. When you only give, in any relationship, you are taken for granted. We can't keep giving because they keep expecting us to.

[Chili]

26. the people who voted yesterday for John Kerry

...is our constituency. Millions of people who are unemployed; African-Americans, Latinos (split), women, union - we can't make sweeping generalizations, they're still our base, WE'RE still our base. Some of US are the lower-middle class. And that constituency now probably includes more ex-Republicans than we'll ever know about. So I'm angry and bitter along with you, but let's not alienate the people who stood with us. We just can't identify them as easily as before.

[info being]

32. Maybe I should have said "Christians"

That's the core of this problem, isn't it? Can you really help anyone when their worldview is based on a fairytale?

[Pharlo]

46. I truly wish people could grasp the

difference between a true Christian and the evangelical jihadists who have taken over our government.

A true Christian wouldn't try to legislate their narrow-minded precepts of 'morality'. (As in how anyone can believe a lying, stealing, mass murderer such as Bush is a 'moral Christian' is beyond me.)

A true Christian would exhibit tolerance and understanding towards others who disagree with them. (Another commodity in short supply in the prevailing regime.)


Refer to these cultists as what they are: RELIGIOUS TERRORISTS, neither Christians, nor "Christians". (To use that term to refer to them implies they attempt to follow the teachings of Christ....)

[Chili]

57. I don't believe that God is a fairy tale

...that's exactly the kind of offensive comment that they lay on the entire Left. Not all of us believe that, MANY liberals are Christians - and Jews and Muslims and Buddhists. Evangelicals understandably bristle when they hear it, just as I'm doing now. Until we stop talking like that, they're unreachable and implacable.

[Old and In the Way]

44. First, we need to know who we are.

I think the Democrats need to let Republicans run the show for the next 2 years....let them string their rope up and prepare to hang themselves. In these 2 years, Democrats need to focus on:

(1) Who are we? All of us.
(2) What are our values?
(3) Leverage that database in social action and a cohesive vision of the future.
(4) Know the results of how Democrats will vote vote before we go into the election booth. Maybe sign an affidavit on this.

If our results don't match with the results they want to report, we let them know that the game is over.

[Xipe Totec]

16. It's Time to Thin the Herd

Of these sheeple that want to run with the wolves.

Mutton. It's what's for dinner...

[noiretextatique]

17. the lower middle class isn't the problem: it's the idiot middle

that is the problem...the people who SHOULD know better, but don't care. they foolishly believe bush, inc won't hurt them, but they KNOW it will hurt other people.
they just don't care...

[SlavesandBulldozers]

22. youre arguing the same point

the lower middle class comprises the majority of the idiot middle class.

[noiretextatique]

45. you may be right...but the ones who get to me

are definitely middle class...the ones who truly should and do know better. it's a kind of naivete, i suppose, one that's comes from having a certain type of privilege.

[Catch22Dem]

21. Someone said this election was about gawd, guns, and gays

And they couldn't be more right. There's a shift in America that is beyond my comprehension. Take these words to heart, because I mean them:
"I used to want to save the world, now I just want to save myself from the fucking neo-con psycho sitting next to me!"

[info being]

23. That's it. That's it.

We need to learn this lesson people. Do not help cancer. Let it starve.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

28. thats a good one

and what's funny about it is its pretty much a conservative socially darwinist philosophy - but turned in on itself.

[shayes51]

31. I guess we now live in the USSB.....

United States of Southern Baptists. I know. I used to be one before I grew a brain and started to think on my own.

[Carolina]

50. you're so right

Before the sad end of this election, I thought about the country, about the future, about we --the people. Now, fuck it, I'm out for me ... protecting my hide and that of my family from the madness that has taken over this country.

Last night, actually 4:00 this morning, my husband reassuringly said: We'll be OK; we have resources. It's the little guys who'll suffer...

And for the first time ever, I thought fuck the little guy*. He can eat shit and die for all I care.

* I'm referring to repuke supporting little guy

[FM Arouet666]

27. Sad, angry and I hear you

I feel your anger, I have been pissing in everyones Wheaties all day. I would like to direct a few "Fuck yous" to the lower middle class that voted for Bush, and the labor unions that did so. I am afraid that the little guy is going to have to get a bloody nose to learn his lesson. The next election may not be so much about what we as democrats need to do, but what Bush and Co. will do to alienate the underdog. Unfortunately, every time the administration does something which is obviously going to threaten the low middle-class, he gets more support. This suggests that things will not change until the current situation gets much worse. We will have to take them back to save us all.

[info being]

30. Or maybe we are alienating them by telling them what's good for them.

We've been just oh so sympathetic with the factory closings and the healthcare costs and everything. Next time, just laugh at them and say it ain't your problem.

Liberals have been the scapegoat long enough.

[Jane Austin]

43. One is tempted to tell them

to get their fundie church to help them.

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

33. I HATE Georgie Bush!

And consider him a mass murderer of epic proportions. Until now the war was HIS evil doing but now 50% of the population has collaborated in that killing of a thousand plus U.S. soldiers and 100000 Iraqis. They now have that blood on their hands too. The world will now deliver us our due and we'll deserve it. It could get rough. Things are priming on so many levels.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

35. i won't deserve it

my hands are clean, remember?

[Crystalrefuge]

42. Just imagine a worse scenario - Kerry as President without the

power to elect liberal judges or to control spending or to enter into treaties or alliances to get us out of this shit. Not only that, he'd have Fox news, Sinclair and the like riding his ass every day accusing him of being incapable when the problem lies with congress. NOT A PRETTY THOUGHT. When we failed to recapture the senate and the house we really wouldn't have wanted the presidency.

Bush broke it... he'll have to fix it and we all know he and his cronies are incompetant. Give it time. This will be a real cluster fuck and then the idiot lemmings who voted for Bush will realize they are getting screwed.

The real issue is can we get our message out to the outside world that we don't agree with Bush? Is passive resistance enough? When are we going to see kids in the streets again like in Vietnam? Eventually Nixon got the message. Peace with honor my ass but it got us the hell out of there.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers":nopity:

[Carolina]

51. excellent post

I thought the same thing about what a Pyrrhic victory the presidency would have been without either the Senate or the House. It would have been a disaster and JK would have been vilified.

This way it's all their mess. I think our side should also boycott the media. Do not discuss the demise of the Democratic Party; do not talk to Mathews or Russert or Imus or any of those bastards. They helped bring this about.

Let the repukes have their power and their show and when it spirals into an ever greater shitstorm, they'll have only themselves to blame.

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

53. "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers":nopity:

No kidding.

[Dr Fate]

34. Converting to a Republican is not the answer.

Our moral responsibility to fight for what is right has been increased & extended for at least four more years or until we win.

[FM Arouet666]

38. I agree

I believe we are on the moral high ground, ultimately we will be proved correct. Unfortunately, it may come at a big price. What disasters can G Chimp get us into before Americans wake up?

[Socialist Dem]

36. Yeah, in a way this is kind of liberating...

now, when I see camera shots of those people who just lost a kid to Shrubco's war of corporate profits, or just got evicted because they couldn't afford to pay rent and medical bills, or just lost their manufacturing jobs when the corporation decided to move the plant to Mexico, and it's comming from one of the deep, deep red states, I won't feel anything for them. They had 4 years to see what Shrubco was all about, yet they went back and voted him in anyway. Fuck 'em.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

39. ill always feel sorry for those who lost a kid in Shrubco's war

always. I'll always feel sorry for the countless Iraqi civilians.

I will now no longer feel personally complicit in it.

[FM Arouet666]

41. Hate to say it

but if reason was not enough to convince, the hard sting of reality may be.

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

54. That's a stupid opinion.

Those people are victims of this insane asshole. Why would you say fuck' em. I have compassion for them. It's very sad.

[shrub chipper]

40. My aunt and I had the exact same conversation today.

Both of us felt we had been absolved of moral responsibility for the dummies we see every day-when *'s agenda screws them it's not our fault-and also for the Military (didn't they support * by a margin of 4 to 1?). Enjoy the war, guys.

I am also bothered by the hits we take for issues like Gun Control, abortion and Gay Marriage (did 25% of gays vote for Shrub?). We only lose voters with these issues and don't really gain anything except the satisfaction of being 'right'.

What good is being right if you are losing every election??

I know,I know...I'll be back to being a bleeding heart liberal in a day or two after my anger subsides, but these items have not ever been on the table for me before and I notice today that I am not the only Dem to think of these things!!.

[pretzel4gore]

47. the lower class didn't support geebush

that's a fiction. if anyone listens to talk radio, notice how well fed and articulate and well spoken/educated the bushevik callers are.....they aren't members of the poor class. blaming innocent people for an organized long running coup d'etat (belive me, maybe 20 million voted for geeb, maybe- lihop or mihop, the busheviks are murderers who would not let voting affect their situation)...even then, most of the people have been subjected to relentless nazipoo propaganda which is an middle/upper class thing....
being a liberal democratic left wing person isn't something one can stop being just like that....and if anyone turns their back on the poor, the young, the sick, elderly or the powerless, they were never liberal demiocratic leftwing to begin with....

[Quill Pen]

52. Agreed.

My emotions have run the gamut over the past 20 hours or so, and I may not entertain the same feelings after I've cooled off, but you know what? Right now, I'm in kiss-off mode. If my countrymen are this smugly, intentionally stupid, I say let them fry in their own stale grease.

Right now, I am ashamed to be an American. I'm having the hardest time believing that more than half a nation's population can be so stubbornly, proudly ignorant and simplistic. Did the entire population of Ohio lose a couple of chromosomes over the last week?

Let 'em, I say. Let them lose their jobs, their unemployment and retraining benefits. Let them preen and strut about their pathetic tax rebates that hardly cover a month's utility bills. Let them live a single health scare away from their families' financial ruin and oblivion. Let the mouth-breathing knobs choose whether they'll buy medicine or pay rent this month, but turn around and tell the local news reporter that they're so glad they voted Bush because they "felt turribl 'bout all dem unborn babies bein' killed by dem 'bortionists." Let 'em whine to their new Repub state AGs about the bungling indifference shown them by corporations who control their identities and credit ratings, and see how far it gets them. Let them ship their kids off to the Mesopotamian Bloodbath du Jour, in the name of the smirking poseur in the stuffed flight suit. Let their kids grow up without arts, music or social issues in their school curricula; you don't need to teach kids to play music if they're just going to be drafted and car-bombed at age 18, anyway. Let them eat enough mercury and toxic waste that they GLOW in the freakin' DARK and can be seen from SPACE. Ohhhh, but Global Warming's a myth!!! Riiiiight!

F*** 'em. After four years of this, as far as I'm concerned, if it's not clear to people that this man is a craven, dangerous and wholly apathetic cultist, insulated by a band of parasitic corporate sultans bent on gutting the country like it's just one more really big M&A deal, I can't help them anymore. Nor do I want to. You meat-'n'-potatoes Bushies deserve every bit of retardation you've inflicted upon yourselves. And I'll watch you descend into the underclass, over the next four years, and all I'll want to say is "Gee, sucks to be you, huh?"

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

55. touche

[chairman]

56. In defense of the little guys in error...

By the simplest moral code imaginable, don't we want to be happy?
To be happy, don't we need to fight on?
As we watch our patria disintegrate, with destitution and misery the order of the day, we will gain a smirk of satisfaction.
But we won't sleep at night. Things will be awful, and they could be better. To look out for ourselves, we will HAVE to keep fighting for what's right.